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Forbes Predicting Biggest Disaster of 2014

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon

    i really dont get this...

     

    first massively has a voting category for mmo most likely to fail

    and now forbes is slinging mud ?

     

    wait for a game to launch... sheesh image

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Isn't SWToR making money why would it be a failure ?

    Ya, I saw another post stating that it was a total failure, yet every time I get on to play there are many people online. I think the reason it is a "failure", is because it didn't live up to it's hype. Otherwise to me, anything that is making money and is fun is not to bad at all. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

    Did EA come out and say SWTOR is a failure ? You said game producers consider it a failure. Would you please link where EA has said that about SWTOR.

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  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon
    Not only ESO, but Wildstar and any other MMO coming in 2014 will fail so badly, the disaster bigger than GW2.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muppetier

    This disclaimer posted with the article

    The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer.

    would seem to suggest OP is mistaken.

    the article is on Forbes site - not some random blog

    that's a strong enough association for me

     

    should we discount all of the writer articles as "not Forbes" articles?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Did EA come out and say SWTOR is a failure ? You said game producers consider it a failure. Would you please link where EA has said that about SWTOR.

     Kit, I wouldn't dwell on it to much or spend too much time thinking about it.  It is not a failure by any means, it is not what most people wanted, however there is many who do enjoy it and it is a success by any definition regardless what the doom n gloomer's say here.

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    i really dont get this...

     

    first massively has a voting category for mmo most likely to fail

    and now forbes is slinging mud ?

     

    wait for a game to launch... sheesh image

    It makes sense to me - its a pretty safe prediction if you think about it.

    Subs are a poor model for consoles, triple platform support for a MMO is bitch to manage due to certification process for each major patch, then there a gameplay issues that can't be discussed yet.

    Again I am hoping its not the case as I have RL friends working there and nobody wants to go through layoffs.

     

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    im really wondering how guild wars 2 can push up that many content updates...are they only making money from that cash shop now which hardly sells anyhthing? kinda crazy...
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    My favorite part:

    'And it’s important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models – but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being “monetized” in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word “monetized” exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don’t want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for – with our system, they get it all.”

    Yeah, if nothing else, the people at Bethesda/Zenimax understand one of the core issues with F2P/Cash Shop setups. The other part is that the entire game is designed and balanced around making Cash Shop items highly desirable, if not outright compulsory.

    Unfortunately, many people never bother to look past the word "Free!" and dive right in with wild abandon, never considering how their game experience is affected - even if they don't realize it. I'd assumed the MMO community at large would be able to see past the marketing, clever PR, the blatant "in-your-face" tactics employed in the game design, and the "coincidental" way the items being sold on the cash shop just happen to address limitations/restrictions/speed-bumps/obstacles deliberately designed into the game specifically to sell them.

    It's like a narrow residential street being laid down wit ha bunch of pot-holes deliberately left in, and then the city offers residents the option of having those in front of their house filled in.... for a fee. It's purely optional. You could certainly try to maneuver around them, or drive over them really slowly... and warn your kids to keep their eyes open when playing. But it would be so much nicer to just have them filled in... and it's only $2 per hole.... You could buy the stuff and do it yourself, but that would be costly and time-consuming. And besides, several of your neighbors are doing it. So, it can't be that bad of a deal. 

    The whole thing is a sham. It puts developers in the position of creating and adjusting demand, while also controlling the supply. 

    Yes, I find it a much better deal to spend a flat $15 a month - about 35 cents an hour with as much as I typically play each month (though it would be just as worthwhile to me at even $1 or $1.50 an hour) - and know that the game I'm playing is designed to keep me entertained and playing as long as I enjoy it, not paying as long as I can stand it. It's well worth the price of admission just for me to know I'm not dealing with a game design built around trying to get me to spend as much as possible, as often as possible.

    As for the article... For someone who, from what they say, hasn't experienced the game first-hand... they sure have a lot to say about it. For one, the cost of the game doesn't mean it will be good or bad. The design of it will. For another, there were many reasons TOR failed to do well and - especially having not played it themself (apparently) - it's absurd for them to assume TESO will suffer the same issues. In all, the whole article is wrapped in fallacy, conjecture and baseless arguments.

     

     

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Muppetier

    This disclaimer posted with the article

    The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer.

    would seem to suggest OP is mistaken.

    the article is on Forbes site - not some random blog

    that's a strong enough association for me

     

    should we discount all of the writer articles as "not Forbes" articles?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/

    While, more legit than a random blog certainly;

    a contributing writer and a staff writer are two different things.

    With a staff writer I believe it would be accurate to say 'Forbes says X" - but with a contributing writer....I'm not sure I'd put it that way.

    This in no way should detract from the quality of the article. If it weren't quality - Forbes likely wouldn't post it.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    a contributing writer and a staff writer are two different things.

    With a staff writer I believe it would be accurate to say 'Forbes says X" - but with a contributing writer....I'm not sure I'd put it that way.

    fair enough - i stand corrected

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Did EA come out and say SWTOR is a failure ? You said game producers consider it a failure. Would you please link where EA has said that about SWTOR.

     Kit, I wouldn't dwell on it to much or spend too much time thinking about it.  It is not a failure by any means, it is not what most people wanted, however there is many who do enjoy it and it is a success by any definition regardless what the doom n gloomer's say here.

    It was a massive financial failure - the game cost exceeded $300 million, they anticipated over 10mil subs - this didn't happen.

    The game underperformed badly, it led to a complete dissolution of Bioware Austin into EA.

    Successful games retain their studios, SWTOR is the biggest financial MMORPG failure yet.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,222Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Nadia

    i really dont get this...

    first massively has a voting category for mmo most likely to fail

    and now forbes is slinging mud ?

    wait for a game to launch... sheesh image

    It makes sense to me - its a pretty safe prediction if you think about it.

    Subs are a poor model for consoles, triple platform support for a MMO is bitch to manage due to certification process for each major patch, then there a gameplay issues that can't be discussed yet.

    Again I am hoping its not the case as I have RL friends working there and nobody wants to go through layoffs.

    In addition to your points, the game has high expectations set from the DAoC, TES single player fanchise, and standard mmo player groups. That is a tall order and it's easy not to please any of them.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    i really dont get this...

     

    first massively has a voting category for mmo most likely to fail

    and now forbes is slinging mud ?

     

    wait for a game to launch... sheesh image

    Ya, it does seem to be an odd new category that sites have been promoting. I'm not sure what the gain is from determining this ahead of time, and/or what they will achieve from it. I can see Forbes possibly taking an interest in it, but Massively? It is like if Ford posted it's 2014 Focus will fail. Why would a game website want to predict a failure? It seems like the publicity would hurt the title and relations with the developer and the publisher.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

    Restructuring is not an indication of failure. Blizzard North was shutdown by Blizzard Entertainment. I think no one in their right mind will call Diablo a failure.

    As for the 300 million was that a rumour or really true ?

    image

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Restructuring is not an indication of failure. Blizzard North was shutdown by Blizzard Entertainment. I think no one in their right mind will call Diablo a failure.

    As for the 300 million was that a rumour or really true ?

     Was more like 150 Million, TESO will be the most expensive production MMO to date when it releases.

    image

  • LyrianLyrian Posts: 296Member Uncommon

    I love his point in the article. The Iron Gates of Subscription. The Gates of Subscription are great if you have a good product to back it up. Once you have a solid product, they become the Golden Gates of Subscription and you have a cash cow to milk dry and you keep out the undesirables.

    I haven't been wrong with any of my mmo predictions since I learned from Dark and Light. ESO will be the next good splash, we'll play it, we'll have fun, memories will be made. I'm planning on picking it up for a fun time. It's up to the Devs if they'll release content fast enough, and in a way to keep ourselves interested for long enough.

    If they are holding a sneaky trick under their hats, that Cyrodill has capturable keeps that we can design and assault on a weekly basis with massive PvP battles and sieges. That holding a keep will give huge resource based bonuses to the guild that controls it. That crafting yields the best or near best gear in the game (how about needing raid mats to craft best in slot stuff?) They can sit on their heels and release a major patch every 8-12 weeks to keep us happy.

    If it's a gear treadmill and they are expecting us to reroll alts and just randomly pvp in cyrodill. Well then, they are going to regretting their choices more than Anderson Silva regrets his ill fated kick the last match. If they go down that route, they need to be prepared to give us an expansion every 12 weeks because sure as **** I'm not rerolling alts. The community has shown with SWTOR that the majority of the population hates doing that.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    These articles are so irresponsible. This is jaw dropping that they would let something like this be on their site being so ill researched. Really brings down my opinion of Forbes. Massively - eh they already outed themselves long ago as free lovers. Is there genuinely some group of people so afraid that the sub model is going to rise back up and they won't be able to be supported by rich people playing that they will go to these lengths to talk back about a sub game just because it's sub. That's what I see as the heart of this stuff is that complaint that always comes up. It's a sub - subs can't work.

    Elder Scrolls IP is NOTHING like Star Wars. I had 0 interest in the Star Wars game. I didn't play it, I don't even want to try it. That game could offer to mow my lawn and I would tell it to go back home.

    All shit like this does is make this game an underdog. People love underdogs. See: any movie about a nobody becoming somebody.

    The comment section on that article he is getting blasted. It's well deserved too. What an outlandish article. I think I'll buy this game and sub to it just to piss people off who claim it's going to fail - how's that.

    As for the game's budget - kudos to a high budget - it says to me that they haven't outsourced all the work to a third world country where people will work for $2 an hour. Kudos for keeping jobs in this country and paying people enough to enjoy their job.

  • cnutempcnutemp Fairfax, VAPosts: 229Member Uncommon

    I think they may be right.   TESO brings nothing new to the table other than their IP.  Quest hub grinding to max level then 3 faction pvp?  Sounds like guild wars 2, and I already have that game.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,745Member Uncommon

    I am not trying to be a pain it is just a bit too much when you use absolute words like failure or success. A game can make money and still not be considered a success because it did not meet the goals but then it would not make it a failure either. SWTOR is doing okay I think and as long as it is not shutdown it will trundle along making money for EA.

    TESO is the most expensive ? My goodness that is going to be hard to make back the money.

    image

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by kitarad

    I am not trying to be a pain it is just a bit too much when you use absolute words like failure or success. A game can make money and still not be considered a success because it did not meet the goals but then it would not make it a failure either. SWTOR is doing okay I think and as long as it is not shutdown it will trundle along making money for EA.

    TESO is the most expensive ? My goodness that is going to be hard to make back the money.

     Maybe their goals were unrealistic and set too high.  Maybe they reached those goals but took a bit longer?

    Hard to argue with reputable game sites vs. puny minority of disgruntled forum goer's. Bad press sells better that is all.

     Also negative responses are more memorable than positive.

     

    Reception
    Aggregate scores
    Aggregator Score
    GameRankings 83.87% (46 reviews) [72]
    Metacritic 85/100 (73 reviews) [77]
    Review scores
    Publication Score
    Eurogamer 8/10[68]
    G4 5/5[69]
    GamesRadar 8 out of 10[73]
    GameSpot 8.0/10[70]
    GameSpy 4/5 stars[71]
    GameTrailers 8.6/10[74]
    GameZone 8/10[75]
    IGN 9.0/10[76]
    PC Gamer 93/100[78]
    Awards
    Publication Award
    GameSpy Best MMO in 2011 Game of the Year Awards [79]
    MMO of the Year 2012 Best Pay-to-play Download MMO[80]
     

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  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon

    I hope every MMORPG made for consoles dies a horrible death, losses more money than any other games in history, and generally just sucks. Maybe then devs will stop trying to design derp fests that are completely designed for the lowest common denominator so that "hey we can put it on console!"

     

     

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member

    Time will tell, but I agree with Forbes on this one. Firor's defense of the model is perfectly - just not for his game and the history of the IP. Were this solely a PC game, the subscription would work. I just can't think of any instance where the subscription model has proven profitable on a console. Additionally, this is a game relating to a single player series, that's another group not accustomed to subscriptions. 

    Combine that with how close they're playing their cards to their chest, I really get the feeling we're gonna see a failure. I hope not (sort of), but there's been very little positive reception to this game. 

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cnutemp

    I think they may be right.   TESO brings nothing new to the table other than their IP.  Quest hub grinding to max level then 3 faction pvp?  Sounds like guild wars 2, and I already have that game.

    I will love this game, not because it offers new or extraordinary features, but because it will be surrounded by other TES fans. It will be a niche game, and probably thin out to just those who love the title after a few months. Well, this is my prediction! :)

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Restructuring is not an indication of failure. Blizzard North was shutdown by Blizzard Entertainment. I think no one in their right mind will call Diablo a failure.

    As for the 300 million was that a rumour or really true ?

     Was more like 150 Million, TESO will be the most expensive production MMO to date when it releases.

    Nope it was over 300mil, EA is trying to downplay the true cost, but now that ex-bioware employees are not under EAs wings and those who have spoken to them candidly, it was well over 300mil.

    Its also worth noting that the vast majority of Bioware devs/artists/qa etc... never knew the true cost, so most of them don't know, but there are operations personnel who know all the juicy details.

     

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