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Why I'm taking a long break from this game

2

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  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xatsh

    XI was dying before Abysea came out. Just as WoW is rapidly dying now as well. It was not due to anything besides the fact after that many years the game gets old. But the people who were there right before abysea launched were very dedicated to the game.

    Abysea is the reason though the majority of people playing at that time left. I had a guild of 59 active players (active as in 30+hrs a week of playtime... not active it todays mmo standards of 10hrs a week)... abysea came out 10quit almost immediantly because they ruined almost 6strait years of hardwork for gear hand outs. Almost everyone else left when people realized a party of 4 now could litteraly accomplish the same if not more then an alliance of 18+ in about 2hrs. All the longterm goals were removed. The best weapon took a week to get, and it could be soloed with some skill. Before it took the work of a guild and took depending on the guild 1month-1yr.

    SE tried to turn XI into a mainstream style game with abysea and this last expansion. By doing so they pushed away the MAJORITY of the people who wanted to keep playing it. It is the #1 reason why when XIV 1.0 failed so few people returned to XI.

    Abysea killed off guilds, removed the need for alliances, linear progression by making gear BIS for all stats and buffs, and focused on low man and instance rewards.... Should sound familiar to anyone playing XIV currently. It is a model proven to fail, it is only good for quick thrills and short life.

    The people who were very active in XI in general hated the style of WoW's endgame. SE pushed XI and XIV into that style. It is why there is so much resistance to Yoshida's plan now, why XIV is having so many of the same issues the other clones are having, and why XI is a shadow of its former self.

    Call it rose tinted graphics or whatever, but it is the hard facts. If SE did not release abysea they would of kept losing subs at about a 5-8% pace a year what they were averaging since wow launched... but they would of not lost 55% of them in the first year after the release of the mini-expansions.

    As for current XIV, this game will not make it unless the devs do something. Waiting I guess is the only thing to do. If the devs change course they have a shot, if they keep going full steam into the iceburg ahead... well we all know what happened with that ship. The current path just has too many game breaking issues for a long term mmo to have.

    XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
     

    XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

    Can you cite your source for that, please, because I can not find anything to corroborate it.

    The closest I've seen is that they have ~1.5 accounts. That's not the same as active subscribers. That's just the number of people who've created accounts for the game (including those who were carried over from 1.0).

    The most recent info I can find on active subscribers (the number you addressed) is somewhere North of 600k, as of  November 6.

    Here's my source

    I've not been able to find any update since then with new numbers, certainly not over 1 million active subs. Perhaps you can cite a more recent source.

  • bbethelbbethel las vegas, NVPosts: 199Member

    I was a 1.0 player and loved the game. I have been playing 2.0 and love the game with all of its problems. I was super excited to finally get a house and start making it into my own. Like what i did in SWG or EQ2. Both of those game i spend months getting items to put in my house. I even out grew out of a few along the way and had to buy the bigger housing. So when FF14 came out with there Housing.  I logged in on 2.1 right away. I ran right over to the housing area. i was so excited.  Then i walked in. To my HORROR I saw the prices.

    I have never been rich in FF14 i spend to much time lvling classes or just wasting time with firends. I dont like crafting . So it is very hard for me to keep my self around 500k. Let alone ever be able to come up with the prices that i saw for the lot or the house alone.

    Untill they bring the prices down to were everybody can buy a starting house that does not cost millions. I am going to be throwing in my FF14 hat for a while. The Yoshi and the rest of the Higher ups at FF14 really need to rethink what they are doing for FF14. I know a bunch of people and friends that have quit over this stupid housing prices. 

  • NetSageNetSage Lake Geneva, WIPosts: 1,040Member Uncommon
    If personal housing every comes I would imagine that will be cheaper.  Personally I don't see the big deal with housing prices.  Simply wait to get one.  Prices will continue to go down until lots start running low I imagine.  And, remember it's something your FC is supposed to pool together not just have one 1-3 people buy.
  • SkymourneSkymourne Ruston, LAPosts: 366Member Uncommon

    XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

    Please, please cite that for us.  I would LOVE to see it.

  • mayankingmayanking south houston, TXPosts: 162Member Uncommon
    the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.
  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by mayanking
    the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

     

    What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

     

    The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

     

    Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

     

    But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

    "If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

     

    There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

     

    Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

     

    If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common
    Originally posted by Murugan 

    Where do you keep getting 450k a day.  I said if everyone in a 20 person FC (average sized) donated 450k you could get a medium house in 90 days.  Or as an FC 88k a day from the entire FC combined.  Not going to break the bank of anyone who plays regularly.  If you don't play regularly (well you quit so this doesn't apply to you) then simply join a larger FC where you don't have to contribute as much or at all.  Also your 32 million number is wrong, all your numbers are wrong you simply do not know what you are talking about.  But if it makes you feel better to get all this rage out...

     

    Also yes full allaghan+ food is enough accuracy., but most people mix and match from different sets.  Like they do in every MMORPG with more than one endgame set. 

     

    You can get much more than 8 accuracy from many different types of food, and for example Lava Toad Legs give 27 accuracy. 

     

    And no coil is not "raiding" it is 8 person, which is the same as extreme primals.  I'd say extreme primals are actually tougher fights than coil, so you are just reaching for excuses at this point.

    wow!

     

    "Coil is not raiding".....     My point exactly, if what SE officialy calls raids in a game, is not considered raiding to even someone who loves the game as much as you?

     

    This alone should turn off anyone who ever loves raiding in any game.  You make my case for me.  Thanks.

     

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Murugan 

    Where do you keep getting 450k a day.  I said if everyone in a 20 person FC (average sized) donated 450k you could get a medium house in 90 days.  Or as an FC 88k a day from the entire FC combined.  Not going to break the bank of anyone who plays regularly.  If you don't play regularly (well you quit so this doesn't apply to you) then simply join a larger FC where you don't have to contribute as much or at all.  Also your 32 million number is wrong, all your numbers are wrong you simply do not know what you are talking about.  But if it makes you feel better to get all this rage out...

     

    Also yes full allaghan+ food is enough accuracy., but most people mix and match from different sets.  Like they do in every MMORPG with more than one endgame set. 

     

    You can get much more than 8 accuracy from many different types of food, and for example Lava Toad Legs give 27 accuracy. 

     

    And no coil is not "raiding" it is 8 person, which is the same as extreme primals.  I'd say extreme primals are actually tougher fights than coil, so you are just reaching for excuses at this point.

    wow!

     

    "Coil is not raiding".....     My point exactly, if what SE officialy calls raids in a game, is not considered raiding to even someone who loves the game as much as you?

     

    This alone should turn off anyone who ever loves raiding in any game.  You make my case for me.  Thanks.

     

    I'm glad after 4 pages I could finally help you make at least one point.

     

    As for it not being for someone who loves raiding in any game, what game still has decent raiding again?  Not WoW, certainly not GW2/SWTOR/Neverwinter or any other recent release.  I certainly spent many years looking and trying them out, it's all either toned way too easy, or is low-man like FFXIV's current.

     

    8 people is not a raid.  Most of what made raiding fun for those of us who enjoy it came from doing it with your entire guild.  At least FFXIV has plans to introduce that in the future (Yoshida said that in the future we'll be able to enter 24 person content with premades and it would be tuned to such).

     

    Difficulty-wise (single group), everything from Titan Hard ->Coil is far more difficult than endgame that is found in most MMORPG's today.  Not every fight is a gem, and overall it is much weaker than FFXI CoP->ToAU or even Vanguard's endgame circa APW/Overlands.  But that's a problem with the current generation of MMORPG's as a whole, not FFXIV alone.

     

    Originally posted by Sengell

    In my eyes convenience changes doesn't matter.

    For me only one thing matters, so please tell me. How many people have beaten the game yet? If you answer nearly everyone who invested enough time, it's not worth the challenge. A mmo which makes everyone a winner by default, has no incentive to be played by me. Not because I am a great player, I'm far from it, but because I want to be rewarded for never giving up and constantly trying my best. In an environment where everyone wins I can't experience that. A mmo has to possess endgame conent which is incredible hard to beat, otherwise there are no dreams left. My 2cent as a former EQ2 raider.

    Despite being in the game since launch, few groups on any server have beat Twintania.  Probably 5% of those doing coil weekly.

     

    Most people can't beat even beat Titan hard, which is why some groups charge to carry people through (leading to gil buying etc.).  That is simply to get a relic weapon, the 2nd goal you have once you hit 50 (followed by Crystal tower, Extreme Primals, and Binding Coil of Bahamut).

     

     

    But it is all single group content, it will be conquered far quicker than real 18+ person raids of the past.  You don't even need an endgame guild to do them and this means more people end up beating it.  Rather than fairly closed rosters who for the most part progress and learn together, you have pick up groups with experience who can feasibly carry 1-2 new randoms a week to get them their "win" as long as they aren't a liability.  Real raid progression is dead if/when it ever returns I'd be ecstatic and would likely move games if it still isn't present in FFXIV.

     

    I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan

    I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

    Out of curiosity, when's the last time you did progression raiding in WoW? I don't disagree with any particular part of your post, but you're talking like you're a hardcore raider, and I find it hard to believe that you don't find heroic progression in WoW more challenging and satisfying than what XIV offers. 

  • mayankingmayanking south houston, TXPosts: 162Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by mayanking
    the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

     

    What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

     

    The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

     

    Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

     

    But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

    "If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

     

    There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

     

    Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

     

    If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

    wootm8 buying gil? i simply said  Shards is the only market on my server which u can play and profit rapidly the prices range from 3-40 because of bots. i have bough literly 6k wind shards for 3gil cause of bots and sold them for 30each. Most people aren't going to buy a house because sqaure enix isn't telling us what benefits each house gets. I can go out and buy a medium right now but i honestly have no idea what the difference in terms of benefits aside from size will Large and medium be. There might be ways to make gill but the crafting nonstop all day nets about maybe max 100-300k a day on my server anyways The issue is just sqaure expects us to put 99 percent into housing. prices are just to exspensive and there excuse as to why is completely bs It wont stop me from playing because i enjoy the game but i don't see a reason to release content that 95percent of players can't enjoy untill the next patch. I wouldn't have this big of a issue if i knew 2 weeks in advance what the prices would be tho.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by mayanking
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by mayanking
    the problem is the current market is almost ruined. sqaure enix has no idea how to handle the market. im on the cheapest server were me and 40 people in my fc wanted a large house yoshi said  medium would be 3X story so i gathered 5mill and some people gathered what they could.. Now its like do we wait for large or buy medium because of the benefits. everything in the market has gone down  to the cheapest the only way i see of legitly farming gold is accutaly buying shards bots farm and sell high when its high which is sad.. I'm not sure why sqaure thinks random people will all donate 99percent of there cash for a house its insane.

     

    What a random example of a gil making scheme.  I can assure you that most people in-game are not "buying shards and reselling them", that's ridiculous.  If you are buying gil just say you are buying gil, I'm sure they won't track you down here.

     

    The truth is that the prices of many things including food, crafted gear, and materials have gone down in price.  However this is a good thing because it equalizes the economies on all the servers.  No longer are people throwing around millions of gil just to avoid farming a few days of materials for themselves.  That was something the super rich did often before because they had an excess of gil and nothing to spend it on.

     

    Now people want to save their gil to buy housing plots.  That along with the change to food (no longer wears off on death), increase in farming drops, and increased options for philosophy tombs (which reduced those bought material prices) all has lead to lower prices across the board.

     

    But how about you stop looking it at in such a purely selfish way and consider the fact that MOST players in FFXIV are gil poor.  Your inflated prices pre-patch effectively priced them out of the market.  Many people did not bother to eat food, they did not bother to get crafted gear, in effect it was a state of:

    "If you play casually, and don't manipulate market trends to make massive amounts of gil the player economy is largely out of your reach due to extreme prices".

     

    There are still ways to make gil, just not the enormous gains from before because there is little being inflated by those with large amounts of gil overpaying for them.  As Yoshida pointed out, this is going to create a situation in two months or so where gil is of equal worth across all servers.  Then legacy can transfer to non-legacy without the concern of that impacting the new world's economy (especially with the current limits on transfers with the gil reduction etc.)

     

    Most people won't buy houses for a month or longer, but I think most FC's will have a house before the next patch (which is when they will start actually giving minor effects and being more than fluff anyways).  But most FC's want it and are still saving for it which isn't a bad thing.  Especially with the Company Chest being fixed, it is nice to see donations come rolling in and a complete history of transactions.

     

    If they had came out and said "These prices are set in stone" that would be reason to make a big deal out of how expensive it is, but because we know the prices will continue to drop it is within reach of anyone.

    wootm8 buying gil? i simply said  Shards is the only market on my server which u can play and profit rapidly the prices range from 3-40 because of bots. i have bough literly 6k wind shards for 3gil cause of bots and sold them for 30each. Most people aren't going to buy a house because sqaure enix isn't telling us what benefits each house gets. I can go out and buy a medium right now but i honestly have no idea what the difference in terms of benefits aside from size will Large and medium be. There might be ways to make gill but the crafting nonstop all day nets about maybe max 100-300k a day on my server anyways The issue is just sqaure expects us to put 99 percent into housing. prices are just to exspensive and there excuse as to why is completely bs It wont stop me from playing because i enjoy the game but i don't see a reason to release content that 95percent of players can't enjoy untill the next patch. I wouldn't have this big of a issue if i knew 2 weeks in advance what the prices would be tho.

     

    If you are able to make 300k a day, and can already buy a medium house then you are among the richest players in the game.  Now there are superrich who have many many times your amount of gil, but the majority of players both have a small fraction of your wealth and your income.

     

    Your "average" player, running roulette, and either other dungeons or their solo beast quests, and selling random items on the MW without spending hours farming is going to likely net only 5-20k a day.  Twenty people donating say 5k a day would give their FC 100k a day towards buying a house.  So that's about a month or two of saving in order to buy a house.  That's not quite the next patch, and that represents a saving effort requiring absolutely no actual "farming/crafting/gil making schemes".

     

    There is far less wealth/income inequality today than there was at launch because of the changes in 2.1 and over time it will improve the server economies.  The people saying the economy is "broken" are just upset they can't make millions of gil with a couple hours effort by taking advantage of the laziness of the super rich.  You could argue that before "anyone" could get rich, but everyone didn't and most people as a result were turned off the player economy by your inflated prices.

     

    We all wish we had saved up more when the gil was easy to come by, but for the average player the game's economy is far more accessible now.  That 5-20k they can earn just by doing content they would anyways not only keeps them fed, and able to purchase armor they want, but actually allows them to save.  Whereas before they would not eat food, not purchase anything, and struggle just to keep up with repair costs on their current armor.

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    I will agree about the crafting. I just started in crafting recently, as my focus first was lvl 30 to get all the advance combat jobs. Crafting is about as important in this game as it is in WoW and that is bad. Compared to the importance of crafting in FFXI this is a huge failure. I have been leveling my crafts and gathering jobs, but have come to a point where I just don't care to do it anymore. Most, pretty much anything you want can be obtained without ever leveling a craft!

    image

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Murugan

    I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

    Out of curiosity, when's the last time you did progression raiding in WoW? I don't disagree with any particular part of your post, but you're talking like you're a hardcore raider, and I find it hard to believe that you don't find heroic progression in WoW more challenging and satisfying than what XIV offers. 

    It's been years, I base that on people I know who have played WoW more recently, and they have quit so its purely anecdotal and probably biased though they are hardcore raiders (meaning they enjoy progression, not they are assholes).  If people enjoy WoW great, but it was never good raiding for me.  EQ2/Vanguard had a fraction of their raiding, and I'll even concede that for the most part that WoW fights have more gimmicks (so does FFXIV for that matter), but to me it was far better in those older model games as it was more of a team effort and less of a youtube tutorial, screaming children on voice chat dickwad fest that endgame has evolved into in recent years.

     

    The proof of that to me, and you very well may disagree, is that endgame guilds are becoming less and less relevant to progression.  When pick up groups, armed with youtube strategies, gear checks, and an absolute lack of empathy/patience befitting your most stereotpyical MMORPG anti-social ubernerd can progress at the same rate as communities playing together for years it shows that cooperation and teamwork are no longer as large a part of raiding as they once were.  They have simply been replaced by tunnel visioned roles played according to a strict script, and that's not a challenge for me personally (maybe since I've been doing it so long) even if it is technically "less forgiving".

     

    I'm sure for some people it's more fun today because of all that, but for me it is a huge let down from what made me passionate about MMORPG games in the first place.  FFXIV has more interplay between group members than WoW, and for that reason alone I find it superior but don't confuse that with me saying I'm 100% satisfied with the game's current endgame either because I'm far from it, I just am not ready to quit the genre entirely and there are few other options that are comparable.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Murugan

    I also raided in EQ2, and never thought I would pine for it.  While really not very good compared to its predecessors, EQ2 was probably the last time I saw real progression (Vanguard is roughly the same time period, but went downhill first imo when they introduced POTA and level cap raise).

    Out of curiosity, when's the last time you did progression raiding in WoW? I don't disagree with any particular part of your post, but you're talking like you're a hardcore raider, and I find it hard to believe that you don't find heroic progression in WoW more challenging and satisfying than what XIV offers. 

    It's been years, I base that on people I know who have played WoW more recently, and they have quit so its purely anecdotal and probably biased though they are hardcore raiders (meaning they enjoy progression, not they are assholes).  If people enjoy WoW great, but it was never good raiding for me.  EQ2/Vanguard had a fraction of their raiding, and I'll even concede that for the most part that WoW fights have more gimmicks (so does FFXIV for that matter), but to me it was far better in those older model games as it was more of a team effort and less of a youtube tutorial, screaming children on voice chat dickwad fest that endgame has evolved into in recent years.

     

    The proof of that to me, and you very well may disagree, is that endgame guilds are becoming less and less relevant to progression.  When pick up groups, armed with youtube strategies, gear checks, and an absolute lack of empathy/patience befitting your most stereotpyical MMORPG anti-social ubernerd can progress at the same rate as communities playing together for years it shows that cooperation and teamwork are no longer as large a part of raiding as they once were.  They have simply been replaced by tunnel visioned roles played according to a strict script, and that's not a challenge for me personally (maybe since I've been doing it so long) even if it is technically "less forgiving".

     

    I'm sure for some people it's more fun today because of all that, but for me it is a huge let down from what made me passionate about MMORPG games in the first place.  FFXIV has more interplay between group members than WoW, and for that reason alone I find it superior but don't confuse that with me saying I'm 100% satisfied with the game's current endgame either because I'm far from it, I just am not ready to quit the genre entirely and there are few other options that are comparable.

    Fair enough. Unfortunately, what you describe is what happens when you PUG raids in a MMO. it's not going to change anytime soon.

    Personally, I stopped caring about what other people were doing in terms of progression a long time ago and refuse to PUG raids. I raid with friends and we clear what we can clear. There's no screaming assholes or raid leaders that require you to study a fight before attempting it. With that in mind, I still find WoW to have better progression raiding than XIV. Granted, they've had a decade to work it out, but I'm a bit disappointed with the way endgame is playing out in XIV so far. I don't find XIV to require more teamwork or anything of the sort. 

    Different strokes for different folks I suppose. 

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Skymourne

    XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

    Please, please cite that for us.  I would LOVE to see it.

    Here is a link that refers to the subscriber numbers:

    http://www.siliconera.com/2013/10/30/final-fantasy-xiv-realm-reborn-retaining-many-subscribers-says-producer/

    image

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NobleNerd
    Originally posted by Skymourne

    XIV is doing great, they have over a million active subs and servers are usually packed during prime time and they announced that they are adding more servers for the steam and PS4 release.

    Please, please cite that for us.  I would LOVE to see it.

    Here is a link that refers to the subscriber numbers:

    http://www.siliconera.com/2013/10/30/final-fantasy-xiv-realm-reborn-retaining-many-subscribers-says-producer/

     

    1.5 million registered players is not the same thing as 1.5 million subscribers. If they actually had 1.5 million subscribers they would have probably said they had 1.5 million subscribers as it would be a very impressive number to retain after the first month. Instead they said registered users, which is more than likely the sum of all the accounts both active and inactive. 

    It doesn't really matter though. The game seems like it's going to be a success for SE going forward and it deserves to be seeing as how they stood by it even after the unmitigated disaster that was 1.0. 

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,662Member Uncommon

    @OP:

     

    There are plenty of ways to make money. The methods have simply changed. No longer being able to go farm level 15 mobs on a level 50 character and make thousands of gil per minute is no reason to throw a fit. I easily bring in over 100k per day  myself through other methods, spending maybe an hour of actual work doing it spread out between doing other things with my FC. I actually have several members in my FC bringing in similar amounts, some of them much more depending on classes / crafts.

    Maybe learn to adjust to the markets and find other methods of making profit instead of whining that farming low level mobs doesnt get you rich fast anymore?

    Leveling CUL and selling medium to high end food is a good start. Unlike the other crafts, where you are trying to make huge profit off of selling 1 piece of equipment that the person will never need to buy again, you are selling something that is constantly being used up and in demand. Hell I usually go through a full stack of food every few days, and am just too lazy to craft it myself even though I have 50 CUL, so someone out there is making lots of money off me since it's generally quicker & easier for me to make the gil I need to buy that much food than it is for me to actually sit there and craft it.

    Just look at Apple Juice as an example. Thats a very commonly used one for casters, and on my server is currently priced at about 85k for a stack of HQ Apple Juice and it only requires 1 easy to obtain material to make. Deviled Eggs are another major seller. Currently going for 1500 per HQ on my server and only cost a couple hundred in materials to make, or you can farm the materials yourself easily like the Apkallu Eggs off level 30 mobs. So youre looking at about 150k for a full stack selling, and maybe 15-20k worth of mats i fyoure buying them, even less if you farm the yourself.

    Anyway that's just one of several methods to make a pretty big profit without investing a ridiculous amount of time.

  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common
    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    @OP:

     

    There are plenty of ways to make money.

     

    I never questioned that there was other ways to make money in game....   What this post is about and is intended to say, is I'm taking a long break from this game.    And lists four reasons why,  One of the four happen to be the housing.   So below I have put what SE has said and put diagrams in to help people understand just how much it costs and takes to farm for housing.

     

    If you were to try to take your 150k a day which is reasonable amount to make in a day and you were on Hyperion Server here is what your farming would need to get a house. 

    =================================

    150k a day.   BUYING A HOUSE AFTER 6 WEEKS 1 mo and half. of ending price of housing for Hyeperion. You would need to farm this much,            (see data below)

    100 mill for the cheapest large house at 150k and at final prices would be 666 days for one person.

    23  people farming 150k a day and ACTUALLY DONATING IT all their work every day to the FC, could get their house in 30 days.  IF you have that many people farming eggs each day and selling them which would crash the food market,  expecially if every single FC were to try to do this at same time.  THIS IS AFTER THE SIX WEEK price drop.

     

    30 million for your medium size house which has two floors would be 200 days for one person.

    7 members farming 150k a day and ACTUALLY DONATING it all to the FC, every single day for 1 month straight would be able to buy this house. THIS IS AFTER THE SIX WEEK price drop

     

    8 mill for small house, which is basicly one small room one floor,  53 days at the least for one person.

    2 members farming 150k a day could get this in 1 month.  THIS IS AFTER THE SIX WEEK price drop.

     

    Idk about you, but after seeing FC housing the size of Personal Housing in other games, and having to farm this much for it as a small FC that just started new on a LEGACY server....   Its not worth it,  best to just take a break when sanity comes to the whole housing issue.  My house in EQ2 is bigger and they say they cant afford server space for more houses at reasonable rates?  That's all I really wanted to say,  I hope people can move past the fact that you shouldn't be having a whole FC farm all their earnings into a bank at such a slow pace to afford housing or anything in game for that matter. 

     

     =============================================================
    Patch Notes 2.1 for these worlds (Final prices on Balmung?Excalibur?Hyperion?Ragnarok?Sargatanas after SIX WEEKS)
                     Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small            8,000,000       8,500,000           9,000,000          9,800,000             10,000,000
    Medium       30,000,000      31,875,000         33,750,000        35,625,000          37,500,000
    Large        100,000,000     106,250,000        112,500,000       118,750,000        125,000,000
    ============================================================== 

     

    ********************  ONLY DATA BELOW THIS POINT ***************************************

     

     

     

    BELOW IS FROM BOTH SQUARE ENIX OFFICAL WEBSITES,  I PUT THEM TOGETHER SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT THEY ARE REFERING TO AND DONT NEED TO HIRE A LAWYER TO UNDERSTAND IT.

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/5b1a297a47f89e7f8263f40a013f080a4e02d706

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/03843d6bf7ba69adc37d7955ff7af43f3c43828a

     

     

    As mentioned previously on the official forums ( http://sqex.to/-e5 ),
    the pricing of land for legacy Worlds will be adjusted in incremental
    steps to match the pricing of the following non-legacy Worlds
    (Hereafter referred to as Group A):

    Bahamut?Behemoth?Cactuar?Carbuncle?Chocobo?Diabolos?Fenrir?Garuda?
    Gilgamesh?Ifrit?Leviathan?Mandragora?Midgardsormr?Odin?Ramuh?Shiva?Siren?Tiamat?Titan?Tonberry?Ultros

    =============================================================
    Patch Notes 2.1 for these worlds (Group A)
              Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small          8,000,000          8,500,000          9,000,000         9,800,000         10,000,000
    Medium       30,000,000      31,875,000         33,750,000         35,625,000         37,500,000
    Large        100,000,000     106,250,000        112,500,000       118,750,000        125,000,000
    ==============================================================

    Pricing for the following legacy Worlds is currently set at 2.5 times the amount of those in Group A
    (Hereafter referred to as Group B):

    Balmung?Excalibur?Hyperion?Ragnarok?Sargatanas

    ==============================================================
    Patch Notes 2.1 for these worlds   (Indeed they are 2.5 times the amount of group A)
              Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small       20,000,000       21,250,000           22,500,000      23,750,000         25,000,000
    Medium      75,000,000       79,687,500           84,375,000      89,062,500         93,750,000
    Large      250,000,000      265,625,000          281,250,000     296,875,000        312,500,000
    ===============================================================

    The final price of land for Group B will first be reduced from 2.5 to 2.25 times the amount of Group A.

    ================================================================
    (What 2.5 to 2.25 times the amount of Group A will look like)
              Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small       20,000,000       21,250,000           22,500,000      23,750,000         25,000,000
    Medium      75,000,000       79,687,500           84,375,000      89,062,500         93,750,000
    Large      250,000,000      265,625,000          281,250,000     296,875,000        312,500,000
    ================================================================

    Over the course of the next week, the price will be reduced from 2.25 to 2 times the amount of Group A.

    =================================================================
    (What 2.25 to 2 times the amount of group A looks like)
              Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small        16,000,000      17,000,000         18,000,000        19,600,000         20,000,000
    Medium       60,000,000      63,750,000         67,500,000        71,250,000         75,000,000
    Large       200,000,000     212,500,000        225,000,000       237,500,000        250,000,000
    =================================================================

    Over the course of six weeks, the final price of land for Group B will continue to drop until it has
    reached the same value as Group A.

    =============================================================
    Patch Notes 2.1 for these worlds
              Fifth-class Plot Fourth-class Plot  Third-class Plot  Second-class Plot  First-class Plot
    Small         8,000,000       8,500,000          9,000,000         9,800,000         10,000,000
    Medium       30,000,000      31,875,000         33,750,000        35,625,000         37,500,000
    Large       100,000,000     106,250,000        112,500,000       118,750,000        125,000,000
    ==============================================================

    * Adjustments to pricing will apply to all plot sizes.

    Pricing for the following legacy Worlds is currently set at 5 times the amount of those in Group A
    (Hereafter referred to as Group C):

    Aegis?Durandal?Gungnir?Masamune?Ridill

    HOLY CRAP, DID THEY JUST SAY FIVE TIMES????????????? YES THEY DID!!!!

    The final price of land for Group C will first be reduced from 5.0 to 4.5 times the amount of Group A.
    Over the course of the next week, the price will be reduced from 4.5 to 4 times the amount of Group A.
    Over the course of eight weeks, the final price of land for Group C will continue to drop until it has
    reached the same value as Group A.

    Furthermore, the final price of land across all Worlds will be re-evaluated at some point in the latter
    half of January. Please be advised that the pricing of land on all Worlds will be subject to change even
    after the above adjustments have been made.

     
  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,083Member

    I can appreciate your point. Admittedly, reading up on 2.1 was why I stopped playing in November. It wasn't introducing anything that I wanted to partake in, and the glaring flaws that were in the conceptual design process were still there.

    Looking at your detailed explanation of the housing though... I can't say I regret my choice. While I can appreciate what Murugan (shudders... we have similar ideas on something... ugh) and others have said about "Everything shouldn't be a handout", as is the trend in so many games these days, those prices are outlandish. Rather, I should say they are outlandish NOW. When it was October, and I could get 100 philo seals per 30 mins to use towards crafting ingredients which were selling for 60k, alright, that would have been a reasonable pricing system. However, as I understand it, the economy has crashed horribly since housing was implemented and drop rates were buffed on high-commodity items.

    A more substantial problem, at least it WAS a problem 2 months ago, was the retention of players in FC's. I feel as though my FC had consistent turnover. Sure, we had a core of 20ish guys and girls, but a lot of people came in for a week, got ran through HM Titan, and then peaced out. Now if I had an FC of say, 45 consistent players, all of whom contributed frequently, than sure, these prices might seem more manageable. However, the last thing people enjoyed in my FC was farming/grinding for gil (which, aside from housing, was 100% useless). I can't imagine asking FC members who just joined "Hey, we're going to need you to contribute like 30-50k a day for the FC house!"

    I've always felt that the lack of utility for gil was going to be a problem. I can honestly not think of a time when I ever ran out of gil when I played... nor can I think of a time when I needed it. I suppose if you're min/maxing, then yes, you'd spend it... but otherwise, it just kind of sat there! Suddenly, housing comes along and BAM, "Where's your $50,000,000 gil?!?"

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,869Member Uncommon

    I walked away this month. My sub ran out and it can stay that way. The defeating nature of the crafting system that has reward gear options for a fraction of the Philo you use for the mandatory parts for the crafted gear. All while you get Allagan tokens with identical content at the same time by default.

     

    ILevel 70 cap with over the top hard caps on materia, iLecel 95 reward gear and knowing that iLevel dominates effective value in combat making it default, hands down better than anything you can craft by virtue of 25 levels if item.  They did it all to stop RMt and by making so many decisions based on the RMT in the game, the RMT run the game because they have development on puppet stings. Whatever RMT does, SE reacts and changes the game based only on that.

     

    Paranoid development has crippled the fun factor in what should have, could have been a great game.

     

     

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by free2play

    I walked away this month. My sub ran out and it can stay that way. The defeating nature of the crafting system that has reward gear options for a fraction of the Philo you use for the mandatory parts for the crafted gear. All while you get Allagan tokens with identical content at the same time by default.

    ILevel 70 cap with over the top hard caps on materia, iLecel 95 reward gear and knowing that iLevel dominates effective value in combat making it default, hands down better than anything you can craft by virtue of 25 levels if item.  They did it all to stop RMt and by making so many decisions based on the RMT in the game, the RMT run the game because they have development on puppet stings. Whatever RMT does, SE reacts and changes the game based only on that.

    Paranoid development has crippled the fun factor in what should have, could have been a great game.

    You can keep trying to sell yourself the mantra that the design decisions are based on RMT but the fact is the players and developers don't feel like you get to have the best rewards just by having the most money and/or time in your pocket.

    You can disagree but you'll only be fooling yourself.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • alicornalicorn Ocala, FLPosts: 171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by free2play

    I walked away this month. My sub ran out and it can stay that way. The defeating nature of the crafting system that has reward gear options for a fraction of the Philo you use for the mandatory parts for the crafted gear. All while you get Allagan tokens with identical content at the same time by default.

     

    ILevel 70 cap with over the top hard caps on materia, iLecel 95 reward gear and knowing that iLevel dominates effective value in combat making it default, hands down better than anything you can craft by virtue of 25 levels if item.  They did it all to stop RMt and by making so many decisions based on the RMT in the game, the RMT run the game because they have development on puppet stings. Whatever RMT does, SE reacts and changes the game based only on that.

     

    Paranoid development has crippled the fun factor in what should have, could have been a great game.

     

     

    I feel your pain and sold my account.  I hope whoever bought it enjoys it more than I was going to.  Ihad fun for a couple months and made a profit... on to ESO and whatever I can find to occupy me until then!

  • lunatiquezlunatiquez San Fransisco, CAPosts: 381Member

    i'm also on my break from this game since december (right before 2.1)

    if TESO turns out to be not my cup of tea, or just bad,  i'll be back to ARR for sure

    i think there'll be another update by then (2.2)

     

    for those who are still playing, my questions are:

    how are things now different from 2.0?

    i heard that there are hard mode of all dungeons, daily quests, easier tome farm, etc

    i'm not interested in the main headlines of 2.1 updates, which are housing and pvp

    new pve contents are interesting (CT, Extreme Modes), but those aren't enought to bring me back to the game

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by free2play

    I walked away this month. My sub ran out and it can stay that way. The defeating nature of the crafting system that has reward gear options for a fraction of the Philo you use for the mandatory parts for the crafted gear. All while you get Allagan tokens with identical content at the same time by default.

    ILevel 70 cap with over the top hard caps on materia, iLecel 95 reward gear and knowing that iLevel dominates effective value in combat making it default, hands down better than anything you can craft by virtue of 25 levels if item.  They did it all to stop RMt and by making so many decisions based on the RMT in the game, the RMT run the game because they have development on puppet stings. Whatever RMT does, SE reacts and changes the game based only on that.

    Paranoid development has crippled the fun factor in what should have, could have been a great game.

    You can keep trying to sell yourself the mantra that the design decisions are based on RMT but the fact is the players and developers don't feel like you get to have the best rewards just by having the most money and/or time in your pocket.

    You can disagree but you'll only be fooling yourself.

    "The fact is"...?

    "You can disagree but you'll be fooling yourself?"

    Wow...

    And you say all this on what authority, exactly? Do you have a direct line to Yoshi-P or others "in-the-know" at SE, that you can speak of "facts" with any amount of credibility? 

    If not, then you have nothing but your own views/opinions - just like everyone else. 

    But check this out...

    You can keep believing you speak with any kind of knowledge or authority on what SE does behind the scenes, or why, Hyanmen... but you're only fooling yourself. 

    See? That street runs both ways.

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