Originally posted by Loktofeit "Exactly. An MMORPG should be deep enough to be the only game you really need (or have the time to) play." - JacxDo you hold other forms of entertainment to the same standard? If not, why not?"The "F2P" crowd are game hoppers generally who play a game for a few weeks and jump. The "sub" crowd is generally the crowd that sticks to one game." - JacxCan you link to the data you are basing that on?
Does using nariusseldon's testimony count?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Loktofeit "Exactly. An MMORPG should be deep enough to be the only game you really need (or have the time to) play." - Jacx
Do you hold other forms of entertainment to the same standard? If not, why not?
"The "F2P" crowd are game hoppers generally who play a game for a few weeks and jump. The "sub" crowd is generally the crowd that sticks to one game." - Jacx
Can you link to the data you are basing that on?
Does using nariusseldon's testimony count?
You're driving me to drink, sir.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 @all those who are argueing for P2P, I think every single argument anyone has ever made has already been disputed 100s of times with all these threads that pop up. You all just like to ignore it all and use the same excuses over and over again even after we explain it.
There will always be a "dispute" on this topic. Preferences are a great thing, don't you think?
"Because I said so." does not an argument make. Neither does "It is the way *I* prefer." make it right. Using anecdotal examples is bad, for both sides of the coin.
Can you "prove" that F2P is better (a subjective term) than P2P?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 @all those who are argueing for P2P,
I think every single argument anyone has ever made has already been disputed 100s of times with all these threads that pop up. You all just like to ignore it all and use the same excuses over and over again even after we explain it.
There will always be a "dispute" on this topic. Preferences are a great thing, don't you think?
"Because I said so." does not an argument make. Neither does "It is the way *I* prefer." make it right. Using anecdotal examples is bad, for both sides of the coin.
Can you "prove" that F2P is better (a subjective term) than P2P?
I can prove it is better for me. I can probably prove that P2P is better for someone else. It's all a matter of opinion. However, that is exactly the reason I think it's rather stupid to argue for either. If someone complains they want a P2P game as a F2P, let them complain. There is no need to start arguing over which is better. No one will win and all arguments can easily be disputed.
I just don't see the point.
Edit: Keep in mind I certainly like F2P and B2P better, however, that is my opinion. I can't prove it's better to someone who doesn't think it is.
It just doesn't work that way.
I can prove it's better from a business stand point though. I can also prove that it's more convenient at times. However, that is pretty much all I an prove lol.
P2P ... I feel is better in the sense it has a smaller community, which I like. I like when you don't have people who come and go quickly all the time. Trust me .. I like some aspects of P2P as well. I just don't think it's worth the price.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 @all those who are argueing for P2P, I think every single argument anyone has ever made has already been disputed 100s of times with all these threads that pop up. You all just like to ignore it all and use the same excuses over and over again even after we explain it.
There will always be a "dispute" on this topic. Preferences are a great thing, don't you think?"Because I said so." does not an argument make. Neither does "It is the way *I* prefer." make it right. Using anecdotal examples is bad, for both sides of the coin.Can you "prove" that F2P is better (a subjective term) than P2P?
I can prove it is better for me. I can probably prove that P2P is better for someone else. It's all a matter of opinion. However, that is exactly the reason I think it's rather stupid to argue for either. If someone complains they want a P2P game as a F2P, let them complain. There is no need to start arguing over which is better. No one will win and all arguments can easily be disputed.I just don't see the point.Edit: Keep in mind I certainly like F2P and B2P better, however, that is my opinion. I can't prove it's better to someone who doesn't think it is.It just doesn't work that way.I can prove it's better from a business stand point though. I can also prove that it's more convenient at times. However, that is pretty much all I an prove lol.P2P ... I feel is better in the sense it has a smaller community, which I like. I like when you don't have people who come and go quickly all the time. Trust me .. I like some aspects of P2P as well. I just don't think it's worth the price.
The underlined I certainly agree with. But it is a "hot topic" that players enjoy bandying about.
The point was that you came across (and I apologize if I misread your intentions) as saying "This is settled."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 @all those who are argueing for P2P, I think every single argument anyone has ever made has already been disputed 100s of times with all these threads that pop up. You all just like to ignore it all and use the same excuses over and over again even after we explain it.
There will always be a "dispute" on this topic. Preferences are a great thing, don't you think?
"Because I said so." does not an argument make. Neither does "It is the way *I* prefer." make it right. Using anecdotal examples is bad, for both sides of the coin.
Can you "prove" that F2P is better (a subjective term) than P2P?
I can prove it is better for me. I can probably prove that P2P is better for someone else. It's all a matter of opinion. However, that is exactly the reason I think it's rather stupid to argue for either. If someone complains they want a P2P game as a F2P, let them complain. There is no need to start arguing over which is better. No one will win and all arguments can easily be disputed.
I just don't see the point.
Edit: Keep in mind I certainly like F2P and B2P better, however, that is my opinion. I can't prove it's better to someone who doesn't think it is.
It just doesn't work that way.
I can prove it's better from a business stand point though. I can also prove that it's more convenient at times. However, that is pretty much all I an prove lol.
P2P ... I feel is better in the sense it has a smaller community, which I like. I like when you don't have people who come and go quickly all the time. Trust me .. I like some aspects of P2P as well. I just don't think it's worth the price.
The underlined I certainly agree with. But it is a "hot topic" that players enjoy bandying about.
The point was that you came across (and I apologize if I misread your intentions) as saying "This is settled."
Oh! lol no no ... I was only mentioning certain arguments on the over all argument have already been thrown around and disputed 100s of times.
I prefer sub, but fact is that free/premium games has a far greater revenue potential.
Meaning that the free model will dominate market in the future.
I see what you mean by having the "potential" for better revenue; does that mean that these F2O games are getting that revenue by and large? Serious question there - I'm not sure.
The only games I've ever played and enjoyed for more than a couple of months were P2Pgames - WoW and DarkFall. Obviously, this is anecdotal, but I think that's what the intention of this thread is - to simply find out what each player prefers in a payment model.
I prefer buying the game, then paying a $15ish sub to play a game for 28-31 days at a time.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky The point was that you came across (and I apologize if I misread your intentions) as saying "This is settled."
Oh! lol no no ... I was only mentioning certain arguments on the over all argument have already been thrown around and disputed 100s of times.Each thread on this topic looks nearly identical.I am bad at typing out my thoughts.
oops! Sorry about that
Yes, each thread like this one does look very similar. New people come here, old posters come back from taking a break, things like that happen and the threads get visited again
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I prefer sub, but fact is that free/premium games has a far greater revenue potential.
Meaning that the free model will dominate market in the future.
If it has a far greater revenue potential then why are there not more popular and better designed F2P games out there? Name any game worth playing for longer than a few months that is F2P?
When I think of my MMOs played longer than 1 year they were and are all subscription games.... only exception would be GW2 for me. Most of my MMOs played for at least a year are: FFXI, WoW, WAR, LOTRO (I know they went F2P but I subbed in the beginning) and FFXIV ARR.
Glad I didn't have to read past the second post to make sure someone had said that. I didn't vote because my answer changes based on what type of game it is and not just the quality of the game.
Originally posted by Loktofeit "Exactly. An MMORPG should be deep enough to be the only game you really need (or have the time to) play." - Jacx
Do you hold other forms of entertainment to the same standard? If not, why not?
"The "F2P" crowd are game hoppers generally who play a game for a few weeks and jump. The "sub" crowd is generally the crowd that sticks to one game." - Jacx
Can you link to the data you are basing that on?
Does using nariusseldon's testimony count?
Sure .. i am one data point. And for the record, i jump whenever i feel like it. It can be an hour, it can be a month, and no one says i cannot jump *back* to a game i played before.
I am also pretty much fine with B2P. I think GW1 was one of the best buys I have ever made even spending a small amount in the cash shop. GW2 I didnt like at all and never really examined how the Cash $hop worked there but I assume it was similar to GW1.
Unfortunately it wasn't. The GW2 cash shop is an abomination compared to the fantastic GW1 system.
I prefer sub, but fact is that free/premium games has a far greater revenue potential.
Meaning that the free model will dominate market in the future.
I see what you mean by having the "potential" for better revenue; does that mean that these F2O games are getting that revenue by and large? Serious question there - I'm not sure.
The only games I've ever played and enjoyed for more than a couple of months were P2Pgames - WoW and DarkFall. Obviously, this is anecdotal, but I think that's what the intention of this thread is - to simply find out what each player prefers in a payment model.
I prefer buying the game, then paying a $15ish sub to play a game for 28-31 days at a time.
The greater revenue potential refers to the fact that:
a) There is no barrier to entry, so more people who would not have paid the $60 box price may come in and spend a few dollars instead of nothing.
b) There is no cap to spending. With subscription games the most you will ever pay each month is the subscription price. With micro-transaction games, some players can spend hundreds of dollars in a single month (known commonly as 'whales').
Well implemented cash shops have the potential to make much more money than a subscription ever could. All you have to do is attract the whales.
Until MMOs can be developed for free they come with a cost that must be paid. I'd rather pay a set price and not feel the RL pull.
What do you mean by "RL pull"?
Personally, nothing makes me feel a "pull" more than a subscription. I feel that if I don't play as much as possible, I'll be wasting money, and that feeling is not a good one. Also, trying a sub game after a pause often requires paying one month sub, even if you only try it for an hour and see that nothing's really changed.
I have a hard time understanding this attitude. I always find myself asking the following: 1) How much TV do you watch if you pay for Cable or Dish TV? It, too, is a service and entertainment. How about Netflix, GameFly, and other subscrition based entertainment services, if you subscribe?
2) How much time do you spend on the phone? Another service.
Do you feel "compelled" to spend as much of your time as possible ("to get your money's worth") with these other services like you do with a game?
For me, the only time I feel "compelled" to log into an MMO is when the world changes daily or I am doing the "farming" thing, where not logging in for a day or two is detrimental to my gameplay.
And I have a hard time understanding why people have a hard time understanding this!!
If something is costing me 15 bucks a month I want to make sure I am getting value for that money. And that value would be playing the game often and enjoying it. But we all know with MMO's that doesn't last for ever, especially todays games. So once the level of my play time starts dropping, thus begins the inevitable feeling of "I haven't played in a week!!! I should put some time in because I am paying for this", starts to roll around. And then you are playing the game not because you really enjoy it but because you feel you have to. Maybe you can ignore the fact that your money is being wasted but I cannot , being of the "cheap bastard" variety of gamer.
And I can hear your obvious reply of, well just unsub then, dummy! Sure you can do that, but what if you suddenly get a hankering to play at 3 am after 10 beers?? Oh sorry you can't because you cancelled your sub 3 weeks ago and it will now cost you another 15 for that privilege. Which means you will have to now devote another month of trying to get your moneys worth.
The only time it would make sense to me to play a sub game is when I absolutely want to complete and have all access to the content of a game. And I understand that is what most pro-sub guys want . I stil haven't found that game yet, and doubt that I will. I can accept the limitations I have in a F2P game because my main concern is whether or not I am having fun, not whether I can get that shiny piece of gear that that other guy has, etc. And I can pay as much or as little as I want and even stop playing the game, and come back anytime. Those are huge advantages to my gaming style that are impossible to ignore.
I see too many of the pro-sub people on this forum commenting on what is wrong with todays MMO's. And that is exactly what happens in every game they try that has a sub payment model. They play, and then a month into the game they already know everything that is wrong with it, and therefore it is no longer worth a sub. Population drops and guess what? Then they all go and whine because every other game is F2P.
Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees....
And as far as other bills, I have Netflix and get the very same feelings. If I am not watching X amounts of shows per month, I start wondering if it is worth the expense. Oh and would you pay for a movie that you weren't going to watch? All stupid examples that people have used to put down the F2P model. Businesses are not creating payment models for you personally. They are creating them so that their games can be successful and survive. And F2P has proven to be by far, the model that most people who play them prefer.
Tough pill to swallow but there it is.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I'm tired of people saying no one wants sub games. Go ahead, vote and let me see it on paper. I read it everywhere on gaming sites that people are tired of free games, I'm not imagining it.
If your perfect game came along - simple question, do you want it to be a sub game or a free to play game. I don't want to argue about it, just put it on paper please.
There needs to be a third option: Both For me it's about the game not the price. I have seen good and bad games on both side of the sub fence. As for which I would prefer if I had to choose...finances are tight right now so free, but with an age requirement of 21 +. This isn't to say that all kids cause trouble or all adults behave, that is most certainly not the case. This is just from my personal experience with MMO's.
There is that other commonly touted fallacy, that the sub model has better community.
My personal experience is that idiots are idiots. And usually idiots don't care if a game is sub or F2P. It depends far more on the actual type of game what sort of community develops. Lets face it, idiots have money too and probably aren't too concerned about where they spend it as long as it lets them be idiots.
End of that story too.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by Boneserino And I have a hard time understanding why people have a hard time understanding this!! If something is costing me 15 bucks a month I want to make sure I am getting value for that money. And that value would be playing the game often and enjoying it. But we all know with MMO's that doesn't last for ever, especially todays games. So once the level of my play time starts dropping, thus begins the inevitable feeling of "I haven't played in a week!!! I should put some time in because I am paying for this", starts to roll around. And then you are playing the game not because you really enjoy it but because you feel you have to. Maybe you can ignore the fact that your money is being wasted but I cannot , being of the "cheap bastard" variety of gamer.And I can hear your obvious reply of, well just unsub then, dummy! Sure you can do that, but what if you suddenly get a hankering to play at 3 am after 10 beers?? Oh sorry you can't because you cancelled your sub 3 weeks ago and it will now cost you another 15 for that privilege. Which means you will have to now devote another month of trying to get your moneys worth.The only time it would make sense to me to play a sub game is when I absolutely want to complete and have all access to the content of a game. And I understand that is what most pro-sub guys want . I stil haven't found that game yet, and doubt that I will. I can accept the limitations I have in a F2P game because my main concern is whether or not I am having fun, not whether I can get that shiny piece of gear that that other guy has, etc. And I can pay as much or as little as I want and even stop playing the game, and come back anytime. Those are huge advantages to my gaming style that are impossible to ignore.I see too many of the pro-sub people on this forum commenting on what is wrong with todays MMO's. And that is exactly what happens in every game they try that has a sub payment model. They play, and then a month into the game they already know everything that is wrong with it, and therefore it is no longer worth a sub. Population drops and guess what? Then they all go and whine because every other game is F2P.Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees....And as far as other bills, I have Netflix and get the very same feelings. If I am not watching X amounts of shows per month, I start wondering if it is worth the expense. Oh and would you pay for a movie that you weren't going to watch? All stupid examples that people have used to put down the F2P model. Businesses are not creating payment models for you personally. They are creating them so that their games can be successful and survive. And F2P has proven to be by far, the model that most people who play them prefer. Tough pill to swallow but there it is.
There comes a time when playing a game that a player needs to decide if it is worth their time anymore. I once paid a 6 month sub for City of Heroes. Things happened and I hardly ever logged in during that time (maybe 3-4 times each of those months). I made a bad decision. Whose fault was it? Certainly not CoH's.
When a player cancels their sub and they "feel the call" again later on, they can pay the $15 again to get their fix. Know that your job is taking you out of town? Call Customer Service (or at least you could) and tell them the situation. Many MMORPGs used to have the ability to suspend your account until the player was able to get back into the game. I have done this in the past with EQ and WoW. I should have done it with CoH )
Movies... People pay for movies they do not see quite often. Ever walk out on a movie you paid for and could not stand (or sit) watching? If so, did you march to the ticket counter and demand your money back, or did you suck it up as a bad decision, a consequence for not doing your own due diligence beforehand?
I DO understand players not wishing to pay for something they are not making use of. What I don't understand is the "feeling compelled to log in." Don't want to log in? Cancel the sub. Feel like logging in again? Restart the sub. It may take a little effort, but what is wrong with players being responsible for their own money?
Again, I suggest having BOTH payment methods available. When the minute/hourly rate exceeds the monthly sub, have the players switch, if they so desire. If the monthly sub is not working, have the players switch to the minute/hourly rate. The big thorn then becomes the cash shop.
Originally posted by Boneserino There is that other commonly touted fallacy, that the sub model has better community.My personal experience is that idiots are idiots. And usually idiots don't care if a game is sub or F2P. It depends far more on the actual type of game what sort of community develops. Lets face it, idiots have money too and probably aren't too concerned about where they spend it as long as it lets them be idiots.End of that story too.
This I agree with. Sub games did not have a lock on "great players." However, a sub tends to get more players that make a commitment to the game then F2P, no cost to entry games. Idiots will be idiots. Idiots DO sometimes have money. But being banned from a game a player invested nothing in, except maybe a newly created e-mail account, has no teeth to it when compared to game where that same player has spent $60 for a box and $15/month for however long they have played. Usually, there is a free month of playtime included in the box price, so they do have 30 days to be idiots before losing their $60 bucks.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by nariusseldon It is called the sunk cost fallacy, and it is a pretty well documented phenomenon. Here is a paper demonstrating the effect using a field experiment.
Obviously the effects differ from person to person, but it is certainly there, on average, in the population.
Thanks for the link, though it is a "pay for the report" site.
Sunk cost fallacy is a pretty big area of behavioral economics research. If you use google scholar, there is probably a link to download the paper. In fact, here is the PDF download link.
IThere comes a time when playing a game that a player needs to decide if it is worth their time anymore. I once paid a 6 month sub for City of Heroes. Things happened and I hardly ever logged in during that time (maybe 3-4 times each of those months). I made a bad decision. Whose fault was it? Certainly not CoH's.
When a player cancels their sub and they "feel the call" again later on, they can pay the $15 again to get their fix. Know that your job is taking you out of town? Call Customer Service (or at least you could) and tell them the situation. Many MMORPGs used to have the ability to suspend your account until the player was able to get back into the game. I have done this in the past with EQ and WoW. I should have done it with CoH )
Movies... People pay for movies they do not see quite often. Ever walk out on a movie you paid for and could not stand (or sit) watching? If so, did you march to the ticket counter and demand your money back, or did you suck it up as a bad decision, a consequence for not doing your own due diligence beforehand?
I DO understand players not wishing to pay for something they are not making use of. What I don't understand is the "feeling compelled to log in." Don't want to log in? Cancel the sub. Feel like logging in again? Restart the sub. It may take a little effort, but what is wrong with players being responsible for their own money?
Again, I suggest having BOTH payment methods available. When the minute/hourly rate exceeds the monthly sub, have the players switch, if they so desire. If the monthly sub is not working, have the players switch to the minute/hourly rate. The big thorn then becomes the cash shop.
Originally posted by Boneserino There is that other commonly touted fallacy, that the sub model has better community.
My personal experience is that idiots are idiots. And usually idiots don't care if a game is sub or F2P. It depends far more on the actual type of game what sort of community develops. Lets face it, idiots have money too and probably aren't too concerned about where they spend it as long as it lets them be idiots.
End of that story too.
This I agree with. Sub games did not have a lock on "great players." However, a sub tends to get more players that make a commitment to the game then F2P, no cost to entry games. Idiots will be idiots. Idiots DO sometimes have money. But being banned from a game a player invested nothing in, except maybe a newly created e-mail account, has no teeth to it when compared to game where that same player has spent $60 for a box and $15/month for however long they have played. Usually, there is a free month of playtime included in the box price, so they do have 30 days to be idiots before losing their $60 bucks.
I think this is the only part you and I tend to disagree with. It seems you are a little more willing than me to let a little money slide for whatever reason. I hate waste in all forms, not just money. Food, time you name it. Its just my OCD behaviour I guess. But really, why should I have to unsubscribe / resubcribe when I can just go play an F2P anytime I want without any of that hassle? Like I said, there is no option for "I would like to play for a week but not month". Sorry, the price is the same for both. With F2P it is my choice when I play and how much I spend. Subscription makes no sense for my playstyle and I suspect many others. Trust me, my CoH subscription would have been cancelled long before yours. And no, I WILL sit for an entire movie no matter how bad it is. If I paid for it I want it. Thats just me.
Give me a sub game with worthwhile content that makes me want to play continuously and I will happily spend my money. But I think many of us here can agree, that just isn't going to be likely to happen in the near future. I am keen to see how Wildstar does because it seems there is a lot of interest in the game and they plan on a sub payment model.
Lets see how that game does and maybe we can comment again.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You're driving me to drink, sir.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"Because I said so." does not an argument make. Neither does "It is the way *I* prefer." make it right. Using anecdotal examples is bad, for both sides of the coin.
Can you "prove" that F2P is better (a subjective term) than P2P?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I can prove it is better for me. I can probably prove that P2P is better for someone else. It's all a matter of opinion. However, that is exactly the reason I think it's rather stupid to argue for either. If someone complains they want a P2P game as a F2P, let them complain. There is no need to start arguing over which is better. No one will win and all arguments can easily be disputed.
I just don't see the point.
Edit: Keep in mind I certainly like F2P and B2P better, however, that is my opinion. I can't prove it's better to someone who doesn't think it is.
It just doesn't work that way.
I can prove it's better from a business stand point though. I can also prove that it's more convenient at times. However, that is pretty much all I an prove lol.
P2P ... I feel is better in the sense it has a smaller community, which I like. I like when you don't have people who come and go quickly all the time. Trust me .. I like some aspects of P2P as well. I just don't think it's worth the price.
The point was that you came across (and I apologize if I misread your intentions) as saying "This is settled."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Oh! lol no no ... I was only mentioning certain arguments on the over all argument have already been thrown around and disputed 100s of times.
Each thread on this topic looks nearly identical.
I am bad at typing out my thoughts.
I prefer sub, but fact is that free/premium games has a far greater revenue potential.
Meaning that the free model will dominate market in the future.
I see what you mean by having the "potential" for better revenue; does that mean that these F2O games are getting that revenue by and large? Serious question there - I'm not sure.
The only games I've ever played and enjoyed for more than a couple of months were P2Pgames - WoW and DarkFall. Obviously, this is anecdotal, but I think that's what the intention of this thread is - to simply find out what each player prefers in a payment model.
I prefer buying the game, then paying a $15ish sub to play a game for 28-31 days at a time.
Yes, each thread like this one does look very similar. New people come here, old posters come back from taking a break, things like that happen and the threads get visited again
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If it has a far greater revenue potential then why are there not more popular and better designed F2P games out there? Name any game worth playing for longer than a few months that is F2P?
When I think of my MMOs played longer than 1 year they were and are all subscription games.... only exception would be GW2 for me. Most of my MMOs played for at least a year are: FFXI, WoW, WAR, LOTRO (I know they went F2P but I subbed in the beginning) and FFXIV ARR.
Glad I didn't have to read past the second post to make sure someone had said that. I didn't vote because my answer changes based on what type of game it is and not just the quality of the game.
Sure .. i am one data point. And for the record, i jump whenever i feel like it. It can be an hour, it can be a month, and no one says i cannot jump *back* to a game i played before.
How many do what i do? I cannot say.
Unfortunately it wasn't. The GW2 cash shop is an abomination compared to the fantastic GW1 system.
The greater revenue potential refers to the fact that:
a) There is no barrier to entry, so more people who would not have paid the $60 box price may come in and spend a few dollars instead of nothing.
b) There is no cap to spending. With subscription games the most you will ever pay each month is the subscription price. With micro-transaction games, some players can spend hundreds of dollars in a single month (known commonly as 'whales').
Well implemented cash shops have the potential to make much more money than a subscription ever could. All you have to do is attract the whales.
They need more accounts then....
Yeah .. and free for the non-whales. Win-win-win for devs, whales, and free players.
And I have a hard time understanding why people have a hard time understanding this!!
If something is costing me 15 bucks a month I want to make sure I am getting value for that money. And that value would be playing the game often and enjoying it. But we all know with MMO's that doesn't last for ever, especially todays games. So once the level of my play time starts dropping, thus begins the inevitable feeling of "I haven't played in a week!!! I should put some time in because I am paying for this", starts to roll around. And then you are playing the game not because you really enjoy it but because you feel you have to. Maybe you can ignore the fact that your money is being wasted but I cannot , being of the "cheap bastard" variety of gamer.
And I can hear your obvious reply of, well just unsub then, dummy! Sure you can do that, but what if you suddenly get a hankering to play at 3 am after 10 beers?? Oh sorry you can't because you cancelled your sub 3 weeks ago and it will now cost you another 15 for that privilege. Which means you will have to now devote another month of trying to get your moneys worth.
The only time it would make sense to me to play a sub game is when I absolutely want to complete and have all access to the content of a game. And I understand that is what most pro-sub guys want . I stil haven't found that game yet, and doubt that I will. I can accept the limitations I have in a F2P game because my main concern is whether or not I am having fun, not whether I can get that shiny piece of gear that that other guy has, etc. And I can pay as much or as little as I want and even stop playing the game, and come back anytime. Those are huge advantages to my gaming style that are impossible to ignore.
I see too many of the pro-sub people on this forum commenting on what is wrong with todays MMO's. And that is exactly what happens in every game they try that has a sub payment model. They play, and then a month into the game they already know everything that is wrong with it, and therefore it is no longer worth a sub. Population drops and guess what? Then they all go and whine because every other game is F2P.
Sometimes you just can't see the forest for the trees....
And as far as other bills, I have Netflix and get the very same feelings. If I am not watching X amounts of shows per month, I start wondering if it is worth the expense. Oh and would you pay for a movie that you weren't going to watch? All stupid examples that people have used to put down the F2P model. Businesses are not creating payment models for you personally. They are creating them so that their games can be successful and survive. And F2P has proven to be by far, the model that most people who play them prefer.
Tough pill to swallow but there it is.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
There needs to be a third option: Both For me it's about the game not the price. I have seen good and bad games on both side of the sub fence. As for which I would prefer if I had to choose...finances are tight right now so free, but with an age requirement of 21 +. This isn't to say that all kids cause trouble or all adults behave, that is most certainly not the case. This is just from my personal experience with MMO's.
There is that other commonly touted fallacy, that the sub model has better community.
My personal experience is that idiots are idiots. And usually idiots don't care if a game is sub or F2P. It depends far more on the actual type of game what sort of community develops. Lets face it, idiots have money too and probably aren't too concerned about where they spend it as long as it lets them be idiots.
End of that story too.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
BTP + Cash Shop
I do not mind paying for a game, it is the monthly fee that gets me.
When a player cancels their sub and they "feel the call" again later on, they can pay the $15 again to get their fix. Know that your job is taking you out of town? Call Customer Service (or at least you could) and tell them the situation. Many MMORPGs used to have the ability to suspend your account until the player was able to get back into the game. I have done this in the past with EQ and WoW. I should have done it with CoH
)
Movies... People pay for movies they do not see quite often. Ever walk out on a movie you paid for and could not stand (or sit) watching? If so, did you march to the ticket counter and demand your money back, or did you suck it up as a bad decision, a consequence for not doing your own due diligence beforehand?
I DO understand players not wishing to pay for something they are not making use of. What I don't understand is the "feeling compelled to log in." Don't want to log in? Cancel the sub. Feel like logging in again? Restart the sub. It may take a little effort, but what is wrong with players being responsible for their own money?
Again, I suggest having BOTH payment methods available. When the minute/hourly rate exceeds the monthly sub, have the players switch, if they so desire. If the monthly sub is not working, have the players switch to the minute/hourly rate. The big thorn then becomes the cash shop.
This I agree with. Sub games did not have a lock on "great players." However, a sub tends to get more players that make a commitment to the game then F2P, no cost to entry games. Idiots will be idiots. Idiots DO sometimes have money. But being banned from a game a player invested nothing in, except maybe a newly created e-mail account, has no teeth to it when compared to game where that same player has spent $60 for a box and $15/month for however long they have played. Usually, there is a free month of playtime included in the box price, so they do have 30 days to be idiots before losing their $60 bucks.- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Sunk cost fallacy is a pretty big area of behavioral economics research. If you use google scholar, there is probably a link to download the paper. In fact, here is the PDF download link.
http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/pre-prints/Flat-Rate-Pricing-Paradox-2010.pdf
BTW, this is a peer reviewed scientific paper, not a marketing report.
I think this is the only part you and I tend to disagree with. It seems you are a little more willing than me to let a little money slide for whatever reason. I hate waste in all forms, not just money. Food, time you name it. Its just my OCD behaviour I guess. But really, why should I have to unsubscribe / resubcribe when I can just go play an F2P anytime I want without any of that hassle? Like I said, there is no option for "I would like to play for a week but not month". Sorry, the price is the same for both. With F2P it is my choice when I play and how much I spend. Subscription makes no sense for my playstyle and I suspect many others. Trust me, my CoH subscription would have been cancelled long before yours. And no, I WILL sit for an entire movie no matter how bad it is. If I paid for it I want it. Thats just me.
Give me a sub game with worthwhile content that makes me want to play continuously and I will happily spend my money. But I think many of us here can agree, that just isn't going to be likely to happen in the near future. I am keen to see how Wildstar does because it seems there is a lot of interest in the game and they plan on a sub payment model.
Lets see how that game does and maybe we can comment again.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!