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Why do sub based MMOs still have box prices? Stupid and greedy

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Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.

    Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?

     

    Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.

    That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.

    Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?

     

    Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.

    That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?

    Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wighty

    The issue with the new gamer is they want to play friggin 10 games at once and at $60 a pop plus sub that is a big nut...  Or they want to run 4 or 5 accounts in the same game... There is no commitment just consumption

    Of course not. We are talking about entertainment products here, not marriage.

    I don't commit to a movie. I don't commit to a single tv show. I don't commit to a single book. Why would i commit to a single computer game?

    You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...

     

    If I was putting together one of those old Revell car models... I commit to putting it together. I am not marrying the fkn thing... When I play a game (also a hobby) I like to put some god damn vested interest and effort to seeing things through for some challenge and fun. Not constanly burdened by artificial barriers like having to buy bag space, or bank slots, or something from a cash shop so my shit don't break when I am trying to craft something.

     

    [mod edit]

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.

    Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?

     

    Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.

    That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?

    Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/

    Well, if there is a legal way not to pay taxes, let me know. I am in. The only reason people pay taxes is because they are threaten with jail if they don't comply. I certainly am not doing it because i like to.

    And what does that have to do with F2P games?

    If a dev offers me a free game, i don't see a reason not to take advantage of it. I am sure if they are not happy about it, they won't be making it possible. It is not like i pirate the game.

     

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!

     

    Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

     

    No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

     

     

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    I actually agree with OP. But I am just speculating and figuring that perhaps for every 10 people that buy the box maybe 50 would pay/play sub-only. Allot more people are willing to try a game at 15,-€$ then pay 60,-€$ even if it's included 30-day's free.

    Besides agreeing with OP by no means do I mind paying for the box prices.

    And I believe there also might be a technical aspect to box sales, meaning they sort of control the amount of people getting into the game.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
    Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?  
    Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
    That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?
    Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/
    Well, if there is a legal way not to pay taxes, let me know. I am in. The only reason people pay taxes is because they are threaten with jail if they don't comply. I certainly am not doing it because i like to.

    And what does that have to do with F2P games?

    If a dev offers me a free game, i don't see a reason not to take advantage of it. I am sure if they are not happy about it, they won't be making it possible. It is not like i pirate the game.

     


    I think thats great, you opt out of taxes and in turn should lose all privileges to drive on public roads and highways, all benefits of research and science, social security, medicare/cade and all military protection.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Wighty
     

    You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...

     

    Take about yourself ... don't talk about me.

    If a movie gets too bad in the middle, i walk out.

    If a tv show gets too boring, i switch to another.

    If a book gets too tedious, i stop reading.

    Don't tell me you don't have any unfinished novels just because they are not as good as you thought. Of course i don't commit to entertainment.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    I actually agree with OP. But I am just speculating and figuring that perhaps for every 10 people that buy the box maybe 50 would pay/play sub-only. Allot more people are willing to try a game at 15,-€$ then pay 60,-€$ even if it's included 30-day's free.

    Besides agreeing with OP by no means do I mind paying for the box prices.

    And I believe there also might be a technical aspect to box sales, meaning they sort of control the amount of people getting into the game.

    I dont mind the box sales but the only games I have played (and purchased) sight unseen was UO and EQ. I always wait for either a trial or a friend who has the game.

    THIS is something I would like to see. Free trials from Day 1... It will never happen. I do not believe the hype (even if its true) and I do not trust others. I want to try the damn thing before putting down $60 or whatever.

    No trial means no sale for me unless I have seen the game played somewhere (and not by a PR spin doctor) although I have used youtube reviews to purchase before as well.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ice-Queen
    Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.

    Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?

     

    Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.

    That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?

    Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/

    Well, if there is a legal way not to pay taxes, let me know. I am in. The only reason people pay taxes is because they are threaten with jail if they don't comply. I certainly am not doing it because i like to.

    And what does that have to do with F2P games?

    If a dev offers me a free game, i don't see a reason not to take advantage of it. I am sure if they are not happy about it, they won't be making it possible. It is not like i pirate the game.

     

    It's simple really. beyond self-interest there is community interest. That's why I pay taxes, because it's good for the infrastructure of my community, not because I'm frightened, lol.

     

    How does it relate to F2P? Simple again: in a free market system goods are only produced if they're economically viable. If enough people adopt the attitude that they will freeload and not pay anything soon enough there won't be a market for that good and it will no longer be produced.

     

    Now I care about MMOs because I enjoy them. I have a stake in MMOs being an economically viable product.

     

    It's a longer term view.

  • -aLpHa--aLpHa- KrefeldPosts: 852Member

    Box prices are the return of investment for developing the game + profit, they do it because they can and it's the fastest way to see a profit return.

    Paying 60$ upfront is better for them then trying to charge you for multiple months especially if they can't keep the initial player base, if they tried to do the sub only method it would take longer for a profit return, if they have a outside investor (which most have) they want to see a profit for their investment sooner then later.

    Game company's are not charity's, don't be so naive.

    Keep in mind the full box price of 60$ is only seen during a release of a new MMO, most of the games drop the prices considerably (down to the monthly sub fee) after the initial 2~ months depending on the popularity of the game.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by iridescence

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

     

    And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!  
    Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

     

    No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

     

     



    So true, I ride by some "poorer" neighborhoods on the way to class and always see these free cell phone booths advertising to the locals in that particular hood.

    One time I yelled, "that sh@t ain't free!" and they got very angry saying it indeed was.

    I countered the simple fact that our tax dollars fund that crap and they shut up real quick.

    Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.

    http://business.time.com/2012/02/08/how-to-get-the-government-to-cover-your-cell-phone-bills/

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • BeelzebobbieBeelzebobbie MalmöPosts: 429Member

    I also feel that paying boxprice and a sub is greedy, maybe not always if a game is huge and demand lots of upgrades and patching then I can understand more atleast. 

    When I played WOW it was worth every penny I spent on subs and expansions but today I feel diffrent.

    You see today I have a huge family of gamers, Me, my girlfriend and three daughters who love gaming. And if you are five ppl in one house on one salery then you really don't want to buy ESO for example to five ppl thats 300 bucks just to get the games and play one month for "free".

    You really don't want to pay 60 bucks on subs either, dudes I need my own sub to be able to play a game with subs or maybe som form of donation to keep going with computer upgrades. 

    We play Guild wars 2 because it's a great game with lots of content and a big playerbase and a big reason is also because of there buisness model. 

    Usually free to play games you have to pay even more then games with subs just the get the full experience and thats not ok, the only thing that is good with bad free to play games is that you can try them for free and see if you like them.

    There should come more games with a buisness model like GW2, I think secret world has somewhat the same but otherwise I don't know of any.

    If you have any hints on other games to try with the same kind of buisness model were you don't have to buy in a cash shop to play the game fully then please give me some examples so we can have more then one game to play.

    // Beelze

    ps It's great to always have a full group to do dungeons with in your own home :)

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wighty
     

    You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...

     

    Take about yourself ... don't talk about me.

    If a movie gets too bad in the middle, i walk out.

    If a tv show gets too boring, i switch to another.

    If a book gets too tedious, i stop reading.

    Don't tell me you don't have any unfinished novels just because they are not as good as you thought. Of course i don't commit to entertainment.

    You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

    That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     

    And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!

     

    Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships. 

     

    No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.

     

     

    No game is free for everyone. It is free for me.

    And that "poor sucker" does it voluntarily. No one is forcing him. Again, if it is free for me, is there a reason why i should not enjoy it?

  • SeariasSearias Edmonton, ABPosts: 712Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Well obviously it's an artifact of when most people still bought games in physical stores which companies convieniently never got rid of out of greed but in this era when a lot of games require no upfront investment I think demanding a box price and a sub is shooting themselves in the foot and driving away a lot of potential customers. 

     

    Example I'm somewhat interested in playing ESO. If I just had to sub for a month and see if I liked it I wouldn't hesitate to do that but I probably will not be buying a $60 box on launch day just for a game which I will still have to keep paying for if I do like it. At least with Skyrim for example if I do plunk down the $60 on launch day and then am somewhat let down I can keep it on my hard drive and maybe it will grow on me.

     

     

    There's no additional value in the box that justifies the additional price. It's only value is the "free" month sub code which could easily be sold in a much smaller package much cheaper if people don't want to buy online. Boxes are a total ripoff for the consumer and probably drive a lot of business away from these games.

     

     

    You there is a high chance that the game will have open beta access and will eventually have trials, so you don't really have to spend $60 to try the game out :).

    <InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Wighty
     

    You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

    That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

    Don't force your values onto others. Entertainment is the least i would commit to. I suppose you have nothing left but personal attacks.

    I pity those who need to feel superior by forcing their preferences on others.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


    Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.

     

    So?

    I am more than happy if whales are voluntarily paying for my gaming.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

    I also feel that paying boxprice and a sub is greedy, maybe not always if a game is huge and demand lots of upgrades and patching then I can understand more atleast. 

    When I played WOW it was worth every penny I spent on subs and expansions but today I feel diffrent.

    You see today I have a huge family of gamers, Me, my girlfriend and three daughters who love gaming. And if you are five ppl in one house on one salery then you really don't want to buy ESO for example to five ppl thats 300 bucks just to get the games and play one month for "free".

    You really don't want to pay 60 bucks on subs either, dudes I need my own sub to be able to play a game with subs or maybe som form of donation to keep going with computer upgrades. 

    We play Guild wars 2 because it's a great game with lots of content and a big playerbase and a big reason is also because of there buisness model. 

    Usually free to play games you have to pay even more then games with subs just the get the full experience and thats not ok, the only thing that is good with bad free to play games is that you can try them for free and see if you like them.

    There should come more games with a buisness model like GW2, I think secret world has somewhat the same but otherwise I don't know of any.

    If you have any hints on other games to try with the same kind of buisness model were you don't have to buy in a cash shop to play the game fully then please give me some examples so we can have more then one game to play.

    // Beelze

    ps It's great to always have a full group to do dungeons with in your own home :)

    I had the a similar situation when my boys lived at home. Three subs werent too bad though and I made them work for it.

     

    NOW heres the kicker. Now that they do not live at home and are struggling with getting started in life I am picking their subs up for a game I dont even play... I guess its cheaper than food lol.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by iridescence

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

     
    And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!  
    Your game is free only because some poor sucker is spending thousands of dollars a month on pixelated crap. Hopefully he is getting some enjoyment out of it and is not just a complete addict and hopefully he doesn't have kids that are doing without things to fill his need for shiny pixel ships.    No game is free. The only question is who pays and how much. Same is true with most things in life.    
    No game is free for everyone. It is free for me.

    And that "poor sucker" does it voluntarily. No one is forcing him. Again, if it is free for me, is there a reason why i should not enjoy it?


    I don't think anyone really cares about what you enjoy other than yourself. A little too self centered for my tastes.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by strangepowers  
    Just because you are not paying for it does not mean someone else is not.  
    So?

    I am more than happy if whales are voluntarily paying for my gaming.



    Apparently the only thing that makes you happy is trying to validate your subjective point of view lol.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member

    Ok if you have some candy people want but what do you charge?

    1. 1 buyer for $100 = $100
    2. 10 buyers at $20 = $200
    3. 100 buyers at $1 = $100
    Obviously as a seller there's only one choice #2. Not sure why people don't understand basic economics...
  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wighty
     

    You must live an incredibly generic life... If there is one thing worth committing to it is entertainment, no matter what your poison may be. 

    That or ADHD... nah... ADD you seem far from hyperactive.

    Don't force your values onto others. Entertainment is the least i would commit to. I suppose you have nothing left but personal attacks.

    I pity those who need to feel superior by forcing their preferences on others.

     

    Not an attack by any means... Just an observation, you simply say how you bounce from game to game to game, no commitment to anything that is typical of ADD.

    You're just going to TOS me anyhow... and anyone else who you manages to dispute your singular way of thinking.

     

    So continue to ride on the backs of others like a remora and continue to be a burden of gaming society where you are the welfare recipient and you smile the whole way through knowing that "it didn't cost you a cent" where had you did make any kind of vested interest into a particular product that gave you hours of enjoyment that product may be better funded to help pave the way for even more enjoyment to be had not only by yourself but the entire community.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • -aLpHa--aLpHa- KrefeldPosts: 852Member


    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Ok if you have some candy people want but what do you charge? [*] 1 buyer for $100 = $100 [*] 10 buyers at $20 = $200
    100 buyers at $1 = $100
    Obviously as a seller there's only one choice #2. Not sure why people don't understand basic economics...

    You don't seem to understand basic economics because what you did there was nothing more then basic arithmetic.

    These number mean nothing without a proper context.

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Originally posted by -aLpHa-

     


    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Ok if you have some candy people want but what do you charge? [*] 1 buyer for $100 = $100 [*] 10 buyers at $20 = $200
    100 buyers at $1 = $100
    Obviously as a seller there's only one choice #2. Not sure why people don't understand basic economics...

     

    You don't seem to understand basic economics because what you did there was nothing more then basic arithmetic.

    These number mean nothing without a proper context.

     

    Geez do I have to write thesis? Yes there are other factors like the cost to produce the candy yourself, can you produce 100 pieces of candy and what other candy sellers are selling their product at. It's called a toy model used to demostrate a simple point which is demand for your product will move the price to the highest return.

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