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Oh my god..just when I thought

crysentcrysent cedar rapids, IAPosts: 837Member Uncommon

Just when I thought I had seen the worst possible implementation of PvP ever, I started playing around with FFXIV's with my 50 monk. 

 

My god, it possibly takes the cake as the absolute worst implementation of attempted PvP I've seen in my gaming career (I started playing MMOS in 1998 with Ultima Online.)

 

What a joke, this games attempt at PvP screams of complete and utter garbage.  There was absolutely no attempt to make a fun PvP system.  For me, as a Monk, in my first game I was put to sleep (sleep last over 30 seconds each time) 8 times in a row.  All I could do is chase a stupid healer in circles spamming the one or two abilities I could when in distance.

 

there is absolutely no strategy, it's not fun.  It's a slap in the face to MMO gamers to try to pass this off as an acceptable update/mini game/add on feature, whatever you want to call it.  It plain sucks.  I'm sorry, it makes Everquest 2's added on crappy PvP system look like a gift from god.

I seriously can't understand what they were thinking...It's literally terrible.

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Comments

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Wellford, SCPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.
  • crysentcrysent cedar rapids, IAPosts: 837Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    It's funny, because while I enjoy the PvE, just trying out the PvP is almost enough to make me cancel my sub.  It was so bad, and so utterly frustrating that I almost canceled my sub on the spot.

    I don't know whats worse, the fact that they tried to implement PvP in a game that clearly was not made to handle it, or the fact that they implemented such a piece of junk that must have taken a developer one day to implement with no class balancing, no real point, no fun.

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Wellford, SCPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by crysent
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    It's funny, because while I enjoy the PvE, just trying out the PvP is almost enough to make me cancel my sub.  It was so bad, and so utterly frustrating that I almost canceled my sub on the spot.

    I don't know whats worse, the fact that they tried to implement PvP in a game that clearly was not made to handle it, or the fact that they implemented such a piece of junk that must have taken a developer one day to implement with no class balancing, no real point, no fun.

    can you imagine the outcry and rage quiting that would happen if they did try to Balance the classes for pvp, thus screwing with pve as well? yikes..

  • 100% agree that PvP did not belong in this game. As long as they don't try to cater to the PvP crowd further I"ll be happy.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon

    Just setting the stage for "FFXIV - PVP Reborn"

    Only $29.95 at a online store near you.  image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,245Member Uncommon
    I used the walls in the arena to my advantage because there is line of sight if they can't see you they can't sleep you. Also I'm a bard so I zero in on black mages and silence them when I see them cast sleep then beat them down.
  • NetSageNetSage Lake Geneva, WIPosts: 1,040Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    I personally disagree.  While I see your point I love PVP in MMOs.  I don't ever expect it to be the focal point but I don't see why it should never be implemented.  They'll never have open world pvp either so it won't effect you other than maybe a dungeon may take a little longer to finish.  OR, because of the people who stay because it have pvp gives enough of a return to not even effect that.

  • XxGrimmxXXxGrimmxX texarkana, TXPosts: 223Member
    I found this post very enlightening and well thought out. 
  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by NetSage
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    I personally disagree.  While I see your point I love PVP in MMOs.  I don't ever expect it to be the focal point but I don't see why it should never be implemented.  They'll never have open world pvp either so it won't effect you other than maybe a dungeon may take a little longer to finish.  OR, because of the people who stay because it have pvp gives enough of a return to not even effect that.

    Because a class skill that is fun and essential in PvE is hated and loathed in PvP, the mentioned sleep is an example and is very similar to the Lore-masters chain stun in Lord of the Rings Online PvP area.

    Pure PvP games tend to have very short stuns because being chain stunned isn't much fun in PvP for the victim. 

    But if you chance the class skills for PvP, the PvE crowd will be upset and and vice versa.

    It is about more then the effect of open PvP, it is about either having to maintain two different skill sets and balances OR having one gameplay subservient to the other. 

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sfc1971
    Originally posted by NetSage
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    I personally disagree.  While I see your point I love PVP in MMOs.  I don't ever expect it to be the focal point but I don't see why it should never be implemented.  They'll never have open world pvp either so it won't effect you other than maybe a dungeon may take a little longer to finish.  OR, because of the people who stay because it have pvp gives enough of a return to not even effect that.

    Because a class skill that is fun and essential in PvE is hated and loathed in PvP, the mentioned sleep is an example and is very similar to the Lore-masters chain stun in Lord of the Rings Online PvP area.

    Pure PvP games tend to have very short stuns because being chain stunned isn't much fun in PvP for the victim. 

    But if you chance the class skills for PvP, the PvE crowd will be upset and and vice versa.

    It is about more then the effect of open PvP, it is about either having to maintain two different skill sets and balances OR having one gameplay subservient to the other. 

    True! And then there are games that have a shorter duration on these kind of spells/skills in PvP. They keep the duration in PvE but change it in PvP. I am trying to remember which games I thinking about, I've played too many, but I think Warhammer, SWTOR and  maybe Rift (had)has a system like this. I think it is important to do that if they put in a PvP-system after launch.

    I remember in DAOC they had AoE mezzes that lasted for 30 seconds. So after getting one of those off and then assisttrain through healers and casters and dps you could beat large numbers with your small 8-man group. Still I consider DAOC as the best PvP-game I have played. But they had counterabilities in that game. I guess that helped. :)

  • crysentcrysent cedar rapids, IAPosts: 837Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lindhsky
    Originally posted by sfc1971
    Originally posted by NetSage
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    I personally disagree.  While I see your point I love PVP in MMOs.  I don't ever expect it to be the focal point but I don't see why it should never be implemented.  They'll never have open world pvp either so it won't effect you other than maybe a dungeon may take a little longer to finish.  OR, because of the people who stay because it have pvp gives enough of a return to not even effect that.

    Because a class skill that is fun and essential in PvE is hated and loathed in PvP, the mentioned sleep is an example and is very similar to the Lore-masters chain stun in Lord of the Rings Online PvP area.

    Pure PvP games tend to have very short stuns because being chain stunned isn't much fun in PvP for the victim. 

    But if you chance the class skills for PvP, the PvE crowd will be upset and and vice versa.

    It is about more then the effect of open PvP, it is about either having to maintain two different skill sets and balances OR having one gameplay subservient to the other. 

    True! And then there are games that have a shorter duration on these kind of spells/skills in PvP. They keep the duration in PvE but change it in PvP. I am trying to remember which games I thinking about, I've played too many, but I think Warhammer, SWTOR and  maybe Rift (had)has a system like this. I think it is important to do that if they put in a PvP-system after launch.

    I remember in DAOC they had AoE mezzes that lasted for 30 seconds. So after getting one of those off and then assisttrain through healers and casters and dps you could beat large numbers with your small 8-man group. Still I consider DAOC as the best PvP-game I have played. But they had counterabilities in that game. I guess that helped. :)

     

    Yes.  Two key difference between DAOC and what they did in FFXIV.  In Daoc the group sleep/mez skills were on a big cooldown.  you had one chance to get them off.  The counterspells were on a similar cooldown.

     

    In FFXIV you can spam a 30 second sleep, and the PvP skill you can purchase to clean it has a 2 minute cooldown.

     

    Big problems here.  And that's just about the sleep skill.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member

    [mod edit]  Leeches/Esuana is one of the fastest casting spells in the game make sure your healer knows how to use it properly and you will be fine.  If you aren't the healer pick up one of the potions that removes sleep in case your healer is slept at an inopportune moment and has burned through their anti-sleep/is fully slept (so meaning they were slept once, broke out, then more than a full minute later are slept again).  Get the anti-CC ability first and maybe don't waste it when you don't have to so you won't have to complain about the (initial) 2 minute cooldown that you can lower later.  Honestly after about 2-3 matches to learn how to play sleep is going to be little more than an afterthought.  The actual challenge in any 4v4 match is dividing the healer's attention long enough that you can get them down (usually requires killing one or more DD).

     

    Also any decent group should have at least one melee on a black mage or the healer to interrupt them as much as possible, so they are actually only able to cast sleep when their long cooldown sure/swiftcast buffs are up.

  • FleshMaskFleshMask San Angelo, TXPosts: 243Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Wow hahaha

     

    So you lose a match, and come rage post here?  Please do quit.

     

    Sleep/CC in general is not even that powerful at all, it is so easy to remove, resistance builds up so fast if you really found it that difficult please do uninstall immediately or at least never PvP again.  I mean if you  had this much problem because of SLEEP you would cry your little eyes out if you were ever actually in a good match where sleep is the LEAST of your concerns if you have even a half decent healer.  The fact that you think mages can SPAM sleep when you can interrupt them in one hit w/o swift/surecast shows how terrible not just your group was but how poorly as a melee you were playing.  Especially as a monk the fact that the black mage was left alone to cast sleep that often, if they actually did, is pretty much entirely your fault.

     

    But hey I'm sure you were totally badass in DAOC or some other MMORPG's pvp and totally not a noob.

     

    So you are a lost cause, but to anyone else actually interested in PvP.  Leeches/Esuana is one of the fastest casting spells in the game make sure your healer knows how to use it properly and you will be fine.  If you aren't the healer pick up one of the potions that removes sleep in case your healer is slept at an inopportune moment and has burned through their anti-sleep/is fully slept (so meaning they were slept once, broke out, then more than a full minute later are slept again).  Get the anti-CC ability first and maybe don't waste it when you don't have to so you won't have to complain about the (initial) 2 minute cooldown that you can lower later.  Honestly after about 2-3 matches to learn how to play sleep is going to be little more than an afterthought.  The actual challenge in any 4v4 match is dividing the healer's attention long enough that you can get them down (usually requires killing one or more DD).

     

    Also any decent group should have at least one melee on a black mage or the healer to interrupt them as much as possible, so they are actually only able to cast sleep when their long cooldown sure/swiftcast buffs are up.

    Nice to see you are still trolling people because they do not like one aspect of your game. Really classy. You game will be around, and maybe he liked the rest of it... one aspect of your game PVP... but nope behavior like yours is what we expected years ago and even today.

    image

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    You must not remember a time in UO when you could make a brand new character, give them max starting magery, some regs, and you could 1-2 fireball a lot of people....Or Earthquake a lot of people dead, even in town.  I loved UO, but it seems you are exaggerating a little.

     

    I don't play it, but I have seen some way worse stuff then what you described.

     

  • evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member

    Or they could just shorten duration of CC in PVP...That's the only real problem since they add snares and such through pvp skills.

     

    Shorter CC in pvp should have been in from the start..it's a friggin no-brainer. 

     

    Also..what's the point of being outraged at pvp being in an mmo ? Just sounds selfish, "I don't like to play like that, so no one should be able to! Even if it doesn't affect me!" Turds

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/133947-Planned-Adjustments-to-PvP?p=1728656#post1728656

    Oh look, they're making fixes and adjustments to PvP.

    Oh look, its a patch less than a month since the first patch with PvP that addresses a lot of the issues with PvP.

     

    Why is everyone crying the sky is falling again?

     

    /yawn

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by crysent
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    It's funny, because while I enjoy the PvE, just trying out the PvP is almost enough to make me cancel my sub.  It was so bad, and so utterly frustrating that I almost canceled my sub on the spot.

    I don't know whats worse, the fact that they tried to implement PvP in a game that clearly was not made to handle it, or the fact that they implemented such a piece of junk that must have taken a developer one day to implement with no class balancing, no real point, no fun.

    can you imagine the outcry and rage quiting that would happen if they did try to Balance the classes for pvp, thus screwing with pve as well? yikes..

     

    Yeah because most games these days don't have separate balancing for PvP?

    PvE players are so dumb, things get nerfed in PvE because they are bad for PvE balance, nothing to do with PvP anymore.

    Most games these days have completely different cooldowns, diminishing returns and ability power for skills used in PvP, clearly Square Enix didn't get the memo.

  • wormedwormed Calgary, ABPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    pvp doesnt belong in a FF game period. That SE caved to the belligerently vocal minority and added ANY form of pvp is shameful.

    You do realize that people who enjoy PvP has far beyond been considered a "minority" for many, many years, right? Just because the IP is Final Fantasy and doesn't have any roots in the aspect, doesn't mean it shouldn't have it. Not to mention, FF14 attracted many new players to its brand.

    With that said, stop being an idiot.

    Oh, and the PvP does sorta stink.

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member

    What happened to the early news reports I had heard about giving the abilities slightly different effects in the PVP areas and also having exclusive PVP abilities? I want to try it out to see how bad it is but sadly haven't resubbed because I have a huge backlog of games staring me in the face I would like to get through before my break is over. =

    So honestly if they actually did what I thought they had planned there would be no reason for the PVE crowd to rage because it wouldn't effect the abilities outside of the PVP areas. So it would be a Win Win for both sides.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak

    What happened to the early news reports I had heard about giving the abilities slightly different effects in the PVP areas and also having exclusive PVP abilities? I want to try it out to see how bad it is but sadly haven't resubbed because I have a huge backlog of games staring me in the face I would like to get through before my break is over. =

    So honestly if they actually did what I thought they had planned there would be no reason for the PVE crowd to rage because it wouldn't effect the abilities outside of the PVP areas. So it would be a Win Win for both sides.

    The PvE players aren't raging because they did do that, some abilities/mechanics do work differently in PvP (for example mages being interrupted in one hit, Damage dealt by bows will vary depending on distance from the target) and there are also many PvP only abilities you can earn.

     

    People are complaining because this is the internet and more specifically the absolute dregs of the internet: mmorpg.com discussion boards, but CC/sleep/etc are not an issue at all for PvP right now like they are being made out to be in this thread, as anyone who actually plays it will tell you.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak

    What happened to the early news reports I had heard about giving the abilities slightly different effects in the PVP areas and also having exclusive PVP abilities? I want to try it out to see how bad it is but sadly haven't resubbed because I have a huge backlog of games staring me in the face I would like to get through before my break is over. =

    So honestly if they actually did what I thought they had planned there would be no reason for the PVE crowd to rage because it wouldn't effect the abilities outside of the PVP areas. So it would be a Win Win for both sides.

    The PvE players aren't raging because they did do that, some abilities/mechanics do work differently in PvP (for example mages being interrupted in one hit, Damage dealt by bows will vary depending on distance from the target) and there are also many PvP only abilities you can earn.

     

    People are complaining because this is the internet and more specifically the absolute dregs of the internet: mmorpg.com discussion boards, but CC/sleep/etc are not an issue at all for PvP right now like they are being made out to be in this thread, as anyone who actually plays it will tell you.

    PVP is still crap regardless of CC. Unless you enjoy doing the same tiny arena for at least another three months.

  • ZenTaoYingYangZenTaoYingYang BahrainPosts: 354Member
    to put it simply out there. I resubbed to try PvP, While I think it has potential and suprisingly good coming from SE, I think I should wait few patches until Open world pvp and 3 faction wars. I am sure some fixes here and there will be there by then and PvP would be just as good as DOAC.
  • ArielyAriely gentPosts: 68Member

    The only "pvp" that could be inplanted in a ffx game like this, should be world vs world, not 1 v 1.

    Big wars would be allot more fun.

  • MagikrorriMMagikrorriM Binghamton, NYPosts: 176Member Uncommon

    Wow someone doesn't know mechanics, sleep once for 20 seconds, second for 10, third for full resist. There are plenty of ways to beat sleep, potion, purity, heals, and poison.  Considering a caster cannot cast anything when taking damage without the use of a cd, says you don't play your class very well. Sleep is very balanced in the game both in pve and pvp.

    As a BLM I would suggest not going up center, you make an easy target for someone like me. Although a Monk wouldn't be on my priority of sleep targets, smn, scholar, white mage, bard, war, blm all take priority over drg and monk.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    When will people realize if you want true, engaging PvP...MMOs should not be the first genre to look at?  I direct your attention to RTSGuru.
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