Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
I played every elder scrolls game from the beginning and every one until maybe Skyrim were just more polished and simplified versions of the last combat wise. Single player psudo crafting with wildly varying power set options. Although they are a little different the intent is largely the same, I cannot say the same for this mmo. Maybe it is because Zenimax is doing it and not Bethesda.
This is a console friendly freakish GW2 Neverwinter hybrid with 5 "classes" with zerg wars. You wont win a war of semantics with Elder Scrolls fans.
I am in no way saying that the differences between ESO and previous ES games are not an order of magnitude bigger than between the earlier games themselves. Of course it's very different. It's a different genre of game, and made by a different studio to boot.
Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
I played every elder scrolls game from the beginning and every one until maybe Skyrim were just more polished and simplified versions of the last combat wise. Single player psudo crafting with wildly varying power set options. Although they are a little different the intent is largely the same, I cannot say the same for this mmo. Maybe it is because Zenimax is doing it and not Bethesda.
This is a console friendly freakish GW2 Neverwinter hybrid with 5 "classes" with zerg wars. You wont win a war of semantics with Elder Scrolls fans.
Considering Skyrim is the one and only ES game without classes, I find the disparaging comments in this forum about ESO's classes...ummm.... peculiar.
But then, a lot of users in this forum are console phobic, universal MMO haters who, it seems, prefer e-sport scenario PVP or solo "open world" gang wars to "zerg" wars... one does have to wonder, considering that this game is the opposite of what they claim to enjoy (if they actually do enjoy anything, that is) why they keep coming back... over and over again.
It's a real head scratcher.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
I played every elder scrolls game from the beginning and every one until maybe Skyrim were just more polished and simplified versions of the last combat wise. Single player psudo crafting with wildly varying power set options. Although they are a little different the intent is largely the same, I cannot say the same for this mmo. Maybe it is because Zenimax is doing it and not Bethesda.
This is a console friendly freakish GW2 Neverwinter hybrid with 5 "classes" with zerg wars. You wont win a war of semantics with Elder Scrolls fans.
I am in no way saying that the differences between ESO and previous ES games are not an order of magnitude bigger than between the earlier games themselves. Of course it's very different. It's a different genre of game, and made by a different studio to boot.
I don't think Elder Scrolls fans are judging ESO just by the mechanics either. They are judging it because they are probably not idiots and know exactly what DAOC and GW2 are. Translating a game over to multi player or an mmo is one thing, reskinning an already done concept is another.
This is more than just a matter of genre. If I set off to make a space mmorpg based on some other game I will probably not end up with something that looks like RIFT. How do you take one of the most open ended games in history and decide to use a highly linear, Themepark that essentially herds you into the middle of the map in forced factions? The rails on this thing are just too much a one way street.
Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
I played every elder scrolls game from the beginning and every one until maybe Skyrim were just more polished and simplified versions of the last combat wise. Single player psudo crafting with wildly varying power set options. Although they are a little different the intent is largely the same, I cannot say the same for this mmo. Maybe it is because Zenimax is doing it and not Bethesda.
This is a console friendly freakish GW2 Neverwinter hybrid with 5 "classes" with zerg wars. You wont win a war of semantics with Elder Scrolls fans.
Considering Skyrim is the one and only ES game without classes, I find the disparaging comments in this forum about ESO's classes...ummm.... peculiar.
But then, a lot of users in this forum are console phobic, universal MMO haters who, it seems, prefer e-sport scenario PVP or solo "open world" gang wars to "zerg" wars... one does have to wonder, considering that this game is the opposite of what they claim to enjoy (if they actually do enjoy anything, that is) why they keep coming back... over and over again.
It's a real head scratcher.
Skyrim is essentially create your own class skill based which is far more varied than the 5 class system they have in place in ESO.
They are probably concerned as fans of the ES series that this game will suck as bad as SWTOR which was another IP they loved and watched become an horrible mmorpg. Its probably less concern over just them enjoying it but anyone enjoying it at all. I mean if you end up with a game with 200k former DAOC vets you probably were better off saving the money.
Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
I played every elder scrolls game from the beginning and every one until maybe Skyrim were just more polished and simplified versions of the last combat wise. Single player psudo crafting with wildly varying power set options. Although they are a little different the intent is largely the same, I cannot say the same for this mmo. Maybe it is because Zenimax is doing it and not Bethesda.
This is a console friendly freakish GW2 Neverwinter hybrid with 5 "classes" with zerg wars. You wont win a war of semantics with Elder Scrolls fans.
Considering Skyrim is the one and only ES game without classes, I find the disparaging comments in this forum about ESO's classes...ummm.... peculiar.
But then, a lot of users in this forum are console phobic, universal MMO haters who, it seems, prefer e-sport scenario PVP or solo "open world" gang wars to "zerg" wars... one does have to wonder, considering that this game is the opposite of what they claim to enjoy (if they actually do enjoy anything, that is) why they keep coming back... over and over again.
It's a real head scratcher.
Skyrim is essentially create your own class skill based which is far more varied than the 5 class system they have in place in ESO.
They are probably concerned as fans of the ES series that this game will suck as bad as SWTOR which was another IP they loved and watched become an horrible mmorpg. Its probably less concern over just them enjoying it but anyone enjoying it at all. I mean if you end up with a game with 200k former DAOC vets you probably were better off saving the money.
Is Skyrim more varied? I don't remember getting nearly these many skills to train in Skyrim,,, and a guild membership there just meant an almost infinite number of very similar quests to perform with some bonus special armor or a mount as rewards... no special skill lines to get from them.
As to ES fan concern... it seems to be the concern of a few ES fans all of whom seem to have a totally different idea if how their dream MMO should have been designed - many with no PVP "'cause ES is not about PVP"... I'm not sure which single player games ARE about PVP.
Besides, those digruntled ES fans that express their concern once or twice is one thing... the ones who jump in on every thread to say the same "DAOC was an evil niche game" they've already said 100 times.... that's more like stalking than concern.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
like someone else said, i also fit into both categories as an MMO and TES fan.
I am also very concerned that Zenimax is not delivering on either side. Making a generic mmo on one end, and making a sub-par TES with online interaction on the other end.
Originally posted by Brynn A friend of mine is one of the biggest Elder Scrolls fans I know of, and he is on the fence about ESO. He was in the weekend beta, and doesn't think ESO feels like Elder Scrolls.
That's funny because a friend of mine's 2nd cousin's sister-in-law is in beta all the time and she says it feels just like an ES game...go figure, eh!
LOL I like that, Iselin
Really, every player seems to have an "Elder Scroll Feel" defined for them. If Skyrim is your basis for Elder Scrolls, TES:O will "feel like" an Elder Scrolls game.
Possibly similar with Oblivion.
If Morrowind was the basis, TES:O is far off the mark.
Arena and Daggerfall may have those players thinking TES:O is a grand improvement
All 5 installments of The Elder Scrolls games have varying "feels" to them, with some minor and/or major changes to them. Arena and Daggerfall combat had the player moving their mouse for their melee attack type, like diagonally for a slash. Morrowind was keybased with moving sideways to slash, moving forward to "poke" and such. It also included the "use best attack" checkbox. I think Oblivion was similar. Skyrim incorporated aim and auto-hit (with melee) with each mouse button used in fighting.
So it really depends on what any one player considers as their own personal "Elder Scrolls Feel"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Blackhound I might as well make mention, hoping nobody else has yet, that they didn't even get the setting right.Coldharbour looks nothing like what they have in the MMO. It would immediately get the game an M rating and would make any Warhammer/WH40K fan blush. It's the kind of stuff Slaanesh is timid about.In the very least they could have got the terrain and skyboxes right, couldn't they have?From the opening statement that "something felt off" while loading into the game I already was offended at the way the setting was being mistreated.
So... you've actually seen Coldharbour before? Where?
From the UESP Wiki: "Coldharbour is a realm of Oblivion created and ruled over by Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Domination. It contains an apocalyptic version of Nirn; the sky is on fire, the ground is a barely-traversable sludge, and the realm is filled with ancient, blackened ruins. A defiled copy of the White Gold Tower exists, splattered with blood and excrement.The realm is desolate and barren, filled with suffering. It is unnaturally cold, even with magical resistance. The air assaults the senses, changing rapidly from rancid death to sweet flowered perfume.Molag Bal once attempted to pull Tamriel into Coldharbour in 2E 583, while the Dragonfires were unlit.Sotha Sil journeyed to Coldharbour in 1E 2920 to bargain with Molag Bal. The mage Morian Zenas famously visited the realm during his voyages through Oblivion, and wept at the sight of the desolation. A female Vampire Lord of pure blood, who has been gifted vampirism directly by Molag Bal, is known as a Daughter of Coldharbour. In a speech to the Champion of Cyrodiil, Mankar Camoran incorrectly names Meridia's realm Coldharbour."
This is not the first time Elder Scrolls has screwed up. Cyrodiil was described in a book as a vast, dense jungle. What did Oblivion give us? A Medieval European setting.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Dhaenon I'm sure others have touched on it, I'm too lazy to check, the fundamental problem this game will have is that it isn't Skyrim Online. People played Skyrim, loved it or other TES games. Now we have a MMO that is just a MMO with TES skins. That is all. Could be good, but it isn't TES.
It is TES. The creators of an IP decide what it is canon and what is not. Additionally, every Elder Scrolls game is different than the ones previous, mechanically. A fan of Morrowind could easily say that Skyrim "isn't Elder Scrolls" (some have) if judging it by the former's mechanics, but they would be wrong.
Edit- beaten like a mudcrab by Iselin
to some extent thats true, they are all different. But heres the problem i personally have with tesO. While morrowind players could easily say skyrim is not like morrowind, as in its not 'tes' enough (and vice versa), teso problem is how former players from all previous tes games will most likely agree with that 'its not tes enough' statement.
basically, what dhaenon said - its just another mmo with tes skins. its not morrowind. its not oblivion, and its not skyrim. We all get that. But
I could care less for TESO not being 'morrowind' enough. But i do care about something else though - teso being too 'wow/swtor' and less tes. Its not that im a hardcore tes fan (im not), but because if i wanted to play such a game theres like 800 games out right now.
ps : its swtor pre-release discussion all over again lol
I hate subscriptions, I'd pay $80 or $100 for a game if it was buy to play and guarenteed that I can always log in and play it (like normal TES and all non-MMO games).
Being locked out of a game means that whenever anything is sub I don't play it. I don't play FF14ARR because it is a sub game, I won't be on Wildstar or TES, and I won't be on any of the most awesome MMOs launching if they have no free or buy to play model.
I have no issue with paying to unlock quests or expansions in the market, or buying cosmetic pet/house furniture/mounts/outfits in the market, or paying more money on original purchase for a game to be buy to play, but sub games expect you to leave in 1 or 3 months and be a content locust. I am not a speed lvler or speed hardcore progressive player, I can't beat any MMO in 1 or 3 months, I wasn't even bored and done with Star Trek Online in 1 or 3 months. I'm a longtime true MMO player, who wants to stick around for years, and paying a thousand dollars on a sub isn't attractive for any MMO that releases.
Back when Everquest 1 had a sub, SWG, FF11, Vanguard, WoW all had a sub, EQ2 had a seperate sub and there wasn't any station pass, I had to miss out on playing Star Wars Galaxies and cancel, same with Vanguard saga of heroes (although my pc wouldn't run it). I also had to miss out and cancel Final Fantasy 11 Online, because I didn't have money to keep more than 2 or 3 subscriptions going a month.
Sure, subscriptions work if you're a 1-3 month speed leveler content locust jump shipper action kiddie, but they are terrible for the slow laid back true roleplaying loyalist crowd, who simply want a good fun time with a community that they love at their own leisurely pace.
We've all lost our sense of patience and fun, rushing to beat games so that we can cancel our sub and go play another game. There's so many games out there, that subs are not economically friendly at all, why can't we just get downloaded content updates that we pay for ? DLC, mini expansions would be way friendlier... You could continue to play with guildmates and friends in old content, but stop vertical gear progression and keep all content viable instead of only the newest game update/expansion loot.
maybe the impressions are wrong we will see but I will watch many reviews before I spend a dime
If those are the ideas you are getting from reviews, then you are doing it wrong. Maybe wait for open beta and try it yourself instead of relying on reviews from random people.
Originally posted by Brynn A friend of mine is one of the biggest Elder Scrolls fans I know of, and he is on the fence about ESO. He was in the weekend beta, and doesn't think ESO feels like Elder Scrolls.
That's funny because a friend of mine's 2nd cousin's sister-in-law is in beta all the time and she says it feels just like an ES game...go figure, eh!
LOL I like that, Iselin
Really, every player seems to have an "Elder Scroll Feel" defined for them. If Skyrim is your basis for Elder Scrolls, TES:O will "feel like" an Elder Scrolls game.
Possibly similar with Oblivion.
If Morrowind was the basis, TES:O is far off the mark.
Arena and Daggerfall may have those players thinking TES:O is a grand improvement
All 5 installments of The Elder Scrolls games have varying "feels" to them, with some minor and/or major changes to them. Arena and Daggerfall combat had the player moving their mouse for their melee attack type, like diagonally for a slash. Morrowind was keybased with moving sideways to slash, moving forward to "poke" and such. It also included the "use best attack" checkbox. I think Oblivion was similar. Skyrim incorporated aim and auto-hit (with melee) with each mouse button used in fighting.
So it really depends on what any one player considers as their own personal "Elder Scrolls Feel"
You're right in that the "TES feel" is very subjective and personal. Some of us have played them all over the years and I think we tend to be a bit more tolerant about the latest version changing something or other we liked in a previous one since each one has made pretty basic changes.
I played a Sorcerer mostly in Arena - you know, the mage class with no magika regeneration ability who also had the largest magika pool of all and was capable of absorbing spells cast on him without taking any damage, provided they had room to absorb the magika cost of the spell. Their huge Magika poool also made them capable of using some very powerful custom spells designed in the spell-maker.
That class and the spell-maker both disappeared in subsequent TES installments. I could have pouted, boycotted the series and raged in forums but I'm not that passionate/childish/crazy. I like the world, lore and setting enough to give it a chance and I found other classes to play and kept right on enjoying the series.
So I tend to be highly skeptical and dismiss most "it doesn't feel like TES" comments about ESO as silly, intolerant pouting by, I assume, Oblivion/Skyrim fans that have no clue how much things have changed over the years.To me those statements are as useless as the ones that point out the obvious-- that ESO has PvP and no TES game before ever has... I mean, really? How could they have had PVP since they were all single player games?
There are some occasional useful discussions in this forum about specific ESO design decisions and people have different opinions about them - that''s fair game and what the forum is all about. But there are also many useless posts making dismissive gross generalizations polluting every discussion... just like in any other mmorpg.com forum
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
the reaction is due to that most ES fans never asked for an mmo. A mulitplayer option, sure, but not an mmo.
Also what they currently have is so linear, it's not Elder Scrolls like at all in the open world aspect.
That gets said a lot here but I don't know wtf it has to do with anything. I never asked Coke to make Coke Zero--especially since they already had Diet Coke... but they did and guess what? I like it better than Diet Coke.
It's sort of the height of delusional self entitlement to imply that a company has to wait to be asked to do something some want. They're not your housekeeper you know
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
the reaction is due to that most ES fans never asked for an mmo. A mulitplayer option, sure, but not an mmo.
Also what they currently have is so linear, it's not Elder Scrolls like at all in the open world aspect.
That gets said a lot here but I don't know wtf it has to do with anything. I never asked Coke to make Coke Zero--especially since they already had Diet Coke... but they did and guess what? I like it better than Diet Coke.
It's sort of the height of delusional self entitlement to imply that a company has to wait to be asked to do something some want. They're not your housekeeper you know
look I agree that it shouldn't have anything to do with it
but there is still a negative reaction by a lot of fans. the thinking is that since they are making this an mmo, then they won't be making another Elder Scrolls single player game. Now we have no idea whether that is true or not but it is still the perception that it is. And that has made for some backlash, at least in quite a few places that I visit.
the reaction is due to that most ES fans never asked for an mmo. A mulitplayer option, sure, but not an mmo.
Also what they currently have is so linear, it's not Elder Scrolls like at all in the open world aspect.
That gets said a lot here but I don't know wtf it has to do with anything. I never asked Coke to make Coke Zero--especially since they already had Diet Coke... but they did and guess what? I like it better than Diet Coke.
It's sort of the height of delusional self entitlement to imply that a company has to wait to be asked to do something some want. They're not your housekeeper you know
look I agree that it shouldn't have anything to do with it
but there is still a negative reaction by a lot of fans. the thinking is that since they are making this an mmo, then they won't be making another Elder Scrolls single player game. Now we have no idea whether that is true or not but it is still the perception that it is. And that has made for some backlash, at least in quite a few places that I visit.
Oh, I know you're right. I see it a lot. And not just here - EQN forums are the same way. It's just the "Dude you broke my lore" thinking at work.
It's almost as if people believe that the overused advertising gimmick of "You asked for it...you got it!" is how things really work or should work. Maybe it's the same people who think that "New and Improved!" really are new or improved?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
the reaction is due to that most ES fans never asked for an mmo. A mulitplayer option, sure, but not an mmo.
Also what they currently have is so linear, it's not Elder Scrolls like at all in the open world aspect.
That gets said a lot here but I don't know wtf it has to do with anything. I never asked Coke to make Coke Zero--especially since they already had Diet Coke... but they did and guess what? I like it better than Diet Coke.
It's sort of the height of delusional self entitlement to imply that a company has to wait to be asked to do something some want. They're not your housekeeper you know
look I agree that it shouldn't have anything to do with it
but there is still a negative reaction by a lot of fans. the thinking is that since they are making this an mmo, then they won't be making another Elder Scrolls single player game. Now we have no idea whether that is true or not but it is still the perception that it is. And that has made for some backlash, at least in quite a few places that I visit.
How logical is such an idea though? TES is Bethesda's cash cow. They just had major success with Skyrim, why would this game have any affect on whether Bethesda carries on with their top IP? It just doesn't make any sense at all why people would think that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's sad that these worthless threads have hundreds of posts, but the article that actually discuss details of the game rarely have even a couple pages.
Originally posted by Pigglesworth It's sad that these worthless threads have hundreds of posts, but the article that actually discuss details of the game rarely have even a couple pages.
That's been the story since I started visiting this site.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are a bunch of malicious people in the world, they would see this game fail just because they are not getting it their way. They would have you believe things that are simply a fabrication of their own imagination. People that do this might want to seek some professional help.
I like the game, seems to be something new in ways of I was never able to interact with the world as you can in that game, the graphics are appealing and character development keeps your creative side going.
I think some people were just expecting Skyrim Online which would have probably been a horrible mess of a game.
I do wonder if Bethesda had ever considered making an official multiplayer expansion though. A simple server hosting system a la Minecraft or Terraria might have gone over really well.
Comments
I am in no way saying that the differences between ESO and previous ES games are not an order of magnitude bigger than between the earlier games themselves. Of course it's very different. It's a different genre of game, and made by a different studio to boot.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Considering Skyrim is the one and only ES game without classes, I find the disparaging comments in this forum about ESO's classes...ummm.... peculiar.
But then, a lot of users in this forum are console phobic, universal MMO haters who, it seems, prefer e-sport scenario PVP or solo "open world" gang wars to "zerg" wars... one does have to wonder, considering that this game is the opposite of what they claim to enjoy (if they actually do enjoy anything, that is) why they keep coming back... over and over again.
It's a real head scratcher.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't think Elder Scrolls fans are judging ESO just by the mechanics either. They are judging it because they are probably not idiots and know exactly what DAOC and GW2 are. Translating a game over to multi player or an mmo is one thing, reskinning an already done concept is another.
This is more than just a matter of genre. If I set off to make a space mmorpg based on some other game I will probably not end up with something that looks like RIFT. How do you take one of the most open ended games in history and decide to use a highly linear, Themepark that essentially herds you into the middle of the map in forced factions? The rails on this thing are just too much a one way street.
Skyrim is essentially create your own class skill based which is far more varied than the 5 class system they have in place in ESO.
They are probably concerned as fans of the ES series that this game will suck as bad as SWTOR which was another IP they loved and watched become an horrible mmorpg. Its probably less concern over just them enjoying it but anyone enjoying it at all. I mean if you end up with a game with 200k former DAOC vets you probably were better off saving the money.
Is Skyrim more varied? I don't remember getting nearly these many skills to train in Skyrim,,, and a guild membership there just meant an almost infinite number of very similar quests to perform with some bonus special armor or a mount as rewards... no special skill lines to get from them.
As to ES fan concern... it seems to be the concern of a few ES fans all of whom seem to have a totally different idea if how their dream MMO should have been designed - many with no PVP "'cause ES is not about PVP"... I'm not sure which single player games ARE about PVP.
Besides, those digruntled ES fans that express their concern once or twice is one thing... the ones who jump in on every thread to say the same "DAOC was an evil niche game" they've already said 100 times.... that's more like stalking than concern.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
like someone else said, i also fit into both categories as an MMO and TES fan.
I am also very concerned that Zenimax is not delivering on either side. Making a generic mmo on one end, and making a sub-par TES with online interaction on the other end.
Really, every player seems to have an "Elder Scroll Feel" defined for them. If Skyrim is your basis for Elder Scrolls, TES:O will "feel like" an Elder Scrolls game.
Possibly similar with Oblivion.
If Morrowind was the basis, TES:O is far off the mark.
Arena and Daggerfall may have those players thinking TES:O is a grand improvement
All 5 installments of The Elder Scrolls games have varying "feels" to them, with some minor and/or major changes to them. Arena and Daggerfall combat had the player moving their mouse for their melee attack type, like diagonally for a slash. Morrowind was keybased with moving sideways to slash, moving forward to "poke" and such. It also included the "use best attack" checkbox. I think Oblivion was similar. Skyrim incorporated aim and auto-hit (with melee) with each mouse button used in fighting.
So it really depends on what any one player considers as their own personal "Elder Scrolls Feel"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"Coldharbour is a realm of Oblivion created and ruled over by Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Domination. It contains an apocalyptic version of Nirn; the sky is on fire, the ground is a barely-traversable sludge, and the realm is filled with ancient, blackened ruins. A defiled copy of the White Gold Tower exists, splattered with blood and excrement.The realm is desolate and barren, filled with suffering. It is unnaturally cold, even with magical resistance. The air assaults the senses, changing rapidly from rancid death to sweet flowered perfume.Molag Bal once attempted to pull Tamriel into Coldharbour in 2E 583, while the Dragonfires were unlit.Sotha Sil journeyed to Coldharbour in 1E 2920 to bargain with Molag Bal. The mage Morian Zenas famously visited the realm during his voyages through Oblivion, and wept at the sight of the desolation. A female Vampire Lord of pure blood, who has been gifted vampirism directly by Molag Bal, is known as a Daughter of Coldharbour. In a speech to the Champion of Cyrodiil, Mankar Camoran incorrectly names Meridia's realm Coldharbour."
This is not the first time Elder Scrolls has screwed up. Cyrodiil was described in a book as a vast, dense jungle. What did Oblivion give us? A Medieval European setting.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
to some extent thats true, they are all different. But heres the problem i personally have with tesO. While morrowind players could easily say skyrim is not like morrowind, as in its not 'tes' enough (and vice versa), teso problem is how former players from all previous tes games will most likely agree with that 'its not tes enough' statement.
basically, what dhaenon said - its just another mmo with tes skins. its not morrowind. its not oblivion, and its not skyrim. We all get that. But
I could care less for TESO not being 'morrowind' enough. But i do care about something else though - teso being too 'wow/swtor' and less tes. Its not that im a hardcore tes fan (im not), but because if i wanted to play such a game theres like 800 games out right now.
ps : its swtor pre-release discussion all over again lol
I hate subscriptions, I'd pay $80 or $100 for a game if it was buy to play and guarenteed that I can always log in and play it (like normal TES and all non-MMO games).
Being locked out of a game means that whenever anything is sub I don't play it. I don't play FF14ARR because it is a sub game, I won't be on Wildstar or TES, and I won't be on any of the most awesome MMOs launching if they have no free or buy to play model.
I have no issue with paying to unlock quests or expansions in the market, or buying cosmetic pet/house furniture/mounts/outfits in the market, or paying more money on original purchase for a game to be buy to play, but sub games expect you to leave in 1 or 3 months and be a content locust. I am not a speed lvler or speed hardcore progressive player, I can't beat any MMO in 1 or 3 months, I wasn't even bored and done with Star Trek Online in 1 or 3 months. I'm a longtime true MMO player, who wants to stick around for years, and paying a thousand dollars on a sub isn't attractive for any MMO that releases.
Back when Everquest 1 had a sub, SWG, FF11, Vanguard, WoW all had a sub, EQ2 had a seperate sub and there wasn't any station pass, I had to miss out on playing Star Wars Galaxies and cancel, same with Vanguard saga of heroes (although my pc wouldn't run it). I also had to miss out and cancel Final Fantasy 11 Online, because I didn't have money to keep more than 2 or 3 subscriptions going a month.
Sure, subscriptions work if you're a 1-3 month speed leveler content locust jump shipper action kiddie, but they are terrible for the slow laid back true roleplaying loyalist crowd, who simply want a good fun time with a community that they love at their own leisurely pace.
We've all lost our sense of patience and fun, rushing to beat games so that we can cancel our sub and go play another game. There's so many games out there, that subs are not economically friendly at all, why can't we just get downloaded content updates that we pay for ? DLC, mini expansions would be way friendlier... You could continue to play with guildmates and friends in old content, but stop vertical gear progression and keep all content viable instead of only the newest game update/expansion loot.
It appears to be the love child of WoW and SWTOR
this is why people are worried.
maybe the impressions are wrong we will see but I will watch many reviews before I spend a dime
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
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Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
If those are the ideas you are getting from reviews, then you are doing it wrong. Maybe wait for open beta and try it yourself instead of relying on reviews from random people.
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
the reaction is due to that most ES fans never asked for an mmo. A mulitplayer option, sure, but not an mmo.
Also what they currently have is so linear, it's not Elder Scrolls like at all in the open world aspect.
You're right in that the "TES feel" is very subjective and personal. Some of us have played them all over the years and I think we tend to be a bit more tolerant about the latest version changing something or other we liked in a previous one since each one has made pretty basic changes.
I played a Sorcerer mostly in Arena - you know, the mage class with no magika regeneration ability who also had the largest magika pool of all and was capable of absorbing spells cast on him without taking any damage, provided they had room to absorb the magika cost of the spell. Their huge Magika poool also made them capable of using some very powerful custom spells designed in the spell-maker.
That class and the spell-maker both disappeared in subsequent TES installments. I could have pouted, boycotted the series and raged in forums but I'm not that passionate/childish/crazy. I like the world, lore and setting enough to give it a chance and I found other classes to play and kept right on enjoying the series.
So I tend to be highly skeptical and dismiss most "it doesn't feel like TES" comments about ESO as silly, intolerant pouting by, I assume, Oblivion/Skyrim fans that have no clue how much things have changed over the years.To me those statements are as useless as the ones that point out the obvious-- that ESO has PvP and no TES game before ever has... I mean, really? How could they have had PVP since they were all single player games?
There are some occasional useful discussions in this forum about specific ESO design decisions and people have different opinions about them - that''s fair game and what the forum is all about. But there are also many useless posts making dismissive gross generalizations polluting every discussion... just like in any other mmorpg.com forum
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That gets said a lot here but I don't know wtf it has to do with anything. I never asked Coke to make Coke Zero--especially since they already had Diet Coke... but they did and guess what? I like it better than Diet Coke.
It's sort of the height of delusional self entitlement to imply that a company has to wait to be asked to do something some want. They're not your housekeeper you know
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
look I agree that it shouldn't have anything to do with it
but there is still a negative reaction by a lot of fans. the thinking is that since they are making this an mmo, then they won't be making another Elder Scrolls single player game. Now we have no idea whether that is true or not but it is still the perception that it is. And that has made for some backlash, at least in quite a few places that I visit.
Oh, I know you're right. I see it a lot. And not just here - EQN forums are the same way. It's just the "Dude you broke my lore" thinking at work.
It's almost as if people believe that the overused advertising gimmick of "You asked for it...you got it!" is how things really work or should work. Maybe it's the same people who think that "New and Improved!" really are new or improved?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The instancing, auto-target / homing missiles and WvW type of PVP killed it for me.
And im both, an MMO gamers and TES fan, TESO just pushed the wrong buttons for me.
How logical is such an idea though? TES is Bethesda's cash cow. They just had major success with Skyrim, why would this game have any affect on whether Bethesda carries on with their top IP? It just doesn't make any sense at all why people would think that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter
Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com
Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com
That's been the story since I started visiting this site.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are a bunch of malicious people in the world, they would see this game fail just because they are not getting it their way. They would have you believe things that are simply a fabrication of their own imagination. People that do this might want to seek some professional help.
I like the game, seems to be something new in ways of I was never able to interact with the world as you can in that game, the graphics are appealing and character development keeps your creative side going.
I do wonder if Bethesda had ever considered making an official multiplayer expansion though. A simple server hosting system a la Minecraft or Terraria might have gone over really well.