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I'd have to agree with Massively. People want Skyrim online and justifiably so. TESO will flop for the same reason Neverwinter is failing, they forgot where they came from(or more likely are using a well known name as a cash grab).
TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank. It will earn millions.
Longevity? It doesn't need it. If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern.
The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit. I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by Pigglesworth Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.
You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience? That much of the "hate" you seem to deride so much is just criticism about a title that at this stage has simply not lived up to its hype? It's not any of us testers' faults if we have issues with the game; that's just the way things go.
Personally, I hope all you fanbois eventually learn that just because someone speaks negatively about his or her experience with a game, such criticism does not make that person a "hater." Why you would so ardently defend a game that hasn't even released is just beyond reason, anyway.
Did you even stop to consider that many of the people who have given Zenimax less-than-satisfied feedback "want to enjoy the game" as much as you profess to? Oh, I suppose not, since those people must automatically be "haters"....
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
Originally posted by muppetpilot You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience?
Frankly I tend to doubt it. I've seen far too many people ragging on the game who clearly had never played it.
Beyond that, if someone is hating on the game either they didn't play it, or did and are violating the NDA. Either way, not to be trusted.
Originally posted by vmoped Originally posted by DMKano http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/ Thoughts? I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.
That article actually lowered my respect for Massively. There are so many contradictions in it. FFiVX game of the year (a sub model game), yet sub models are the "biggest blunder".... That is just one example. Just a poorly done opinion piece that has no credibility and obviously no logical standard to base their awards on.
Massively is pretty horrid overall, anyway. The site is obviously paid to promote Guild Wars 2 and yet they continually deny that this is the case; how anyone could construe those silly 8-bit jumping puzzles as an "expansion of the year" is beyond me. Massively has done nothing but over-hype that game from day one and continues to sugarcoat everything that it contains. One of the main reasons I quit reading anything of theirs is because every third "article" is about Gw 2 and their resident fanbois rave on and on with no moderation.
Not only that, but the site is clearly anti-Sub anything. They post article after article about shiny, happy f2p models and decry sub games every chance they get. Like you said, much of what they post is just poorly done opinion pieces. If their revenue is coming from f2p supporters and Gw 2 promotion that's fine, but the least they could do is be honest about it.
there is no way it will flop,they will just lets subs and game get cheaper along its life span.
these people know how to make games.thank goodness its not a kill 5 rats game.
Originally posted by muppetpilot Originally posted by Pigglesworth Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.
There is a difference between "I didn't like how the game played" and "this game will fail because I didn't like it".
People some label as "hater" are the later and state that their opinion is fact and that no one else should try the game because they didn't like it. At the same time, the label "fanboi" isn't fair for anyone that liked their game experience and fight against the "hater" attitude.
Players discussing opinion of how games should be made and or played is great. Stating opinion as fact is not IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Originally posted by ZombieKen TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank. It will earn millions. Longevity? It doesn't need it. If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern. The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit. I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.
I wouldn't count on it. There's infinitely more Star Wars fans then ES ones and SWTOR is still in debt by the tens of millions after a catastrophic lack of player retention rate in which they are only just now recovering.
In other related news :
Gaming Site holds a vote on upcoming game.
People who have not played said game but agree with the result praise the site in question and voice their agreement
People who have not played said game but disagree with the result vilify the site in question and voice their disagreement.
Film at 11.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Originally posted by iridescence I think they're selling it short. It has every chance to do at least as well as something like FFXIV. They're bashing it for having elements that a lot of players "don't get" but that's precisely what attracts me to it. Familiarity is not a good thing in current MMOs there is a saturation point where people are sick of playing the same old thing they've played before and many people have reached that point in the current market. I'm hoping that ESO can offer something refreshing, how they do the combat will be key though. Also, berating a game for having a subscription is stupid. $15 a month is cheap for most people to play for a game that really grips them in a long term way. Charging a sub hopefully shows that Zenimax thinks they have something more than your typical throwaway "month and done" title.
I am looking forward to trying the skill system and see how the combat works once you build up enough to fill two weapon skill bars. Trying out a lot of different combos of armor, weapon, class, race and guild skills. Doing both PvE and PvP to progress my character at end game.
I guess that makes me crazy to want to try the game and find out for my self. I guess I should just read an article like that and just not try the game at all because they told me it will "flop".
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Originally posted by ZombieKen TESO is going to flop all the way to the bank. It will earn millions. Longevity? It doesn't need it. If it achieves it, all the better, but the bills will be paid long before this even becomes a concern. The vast number of TES fans guarantees a hit. I see it as little different than SWTOR in this respect, although I hope for the fan's sake, the game turns out better than SWTOR did.
I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.
Good point. Marketers at EA estimated SW worldwide fans to be "10's of 10's of millions", which is 100+ million to me. But only 2.4 million SWTOR boxes got sold (according to VGChatz estimates), with another million new accounts made after it went freemium (EA quarterly statement).
Even if the majority of those new accounts in SWTOR were actually brand new players, that would only put the audience at about 3% of SW fans worldwide who bought the game.
Since ESO is a console game, I would expect the marketing outreach to be greater. I do also, however, agree with the article that the subscription cost is going to mystify console fans. There will be many complaints, even if Zenimax puts "$15 a month subscription fee" right on the box cover. Add to that lackluster console MMORPG past stigma.
Even if ESO milks as much money as possible before being forced to go F2P, I would think this game would be better suited as the "Most disappointing game of the year", instead of "biggest flop". To me, the two are more or less mean the same, although flop is more severe (complete failure, etc).
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I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.
Why is that? Every ES is single player with absolutely no multi player capabilities. I good chuck of ES players play it BECAUSE it's single player. Not to mention an MMO Star Wars was already a huge success before SWTOR was made, that is, until SoE did what SoE does and screw up the entire game with NGE. Which means a Star Wars MMO was alot less risky then an ES one.
Originally posted by azurrei TESO is an MMO set in the ES Universe, not an MMO version of TES: (insert name of ES game.) There IS a difference.
I would say you are 100% correct.
I would also say that brings about its own issues.
MMO players want something more than what has already gone before. I'm not talking about the "completely 'new'/different" crowd as they don't understand tat nothing is really ever "new". Just maybe a different spin on what has already been done.
So the question is whether or not ESO can hold mmo players. On that note, there are those who would insist that it doesn't have to, just like all mmo games don't "have to" hold them. Just play and move on when you are ready.
There are also those who want mmo's to be more than just a few months of fun.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.
I assumed when you were counting fans you meant fans of all and every aspect of the SW franchise, so my point was simply that as a percentage of the total a gamer (ES) is more likely to play a game than someone who enjoyed a film franchise (SW).
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by azurrei TESO is an MMO set in the ES Universe, not an MMO version of TES: (insert name of ES game.) There IS a difference.
I'm starting to think this group is a smaller niche than the Full Loot, FFA PVP market these days.
Probably because we're spread all around countless MMOs as part of the loyal 100-200K that seem to stick with our game of choice while the rest of the world moves on.
On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes
Pouring on extra "Salt" for 2017
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Sovrath
I can agree with that as well.
Originally posted by Myria The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)?
I think they mean more of a Resurgence in more Gamers asking for Sandbox MMOs and Developers actually thinking in less Linear and Themepark terms
The Trend now is Games (in Development) are leaning a little more to Sandbox elements
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Games Played: Too Many
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs I think they mean more of a Resurgence in more Gamers asking for Sandbox MMOs and Developers actually thinking in less Linear and Themepark terms The Trend now is Games (in Development) are leaning a little more to Sandbox elements
What 'more Gamers'? If you mean the echo chambers of sites like this one and Massively, perhaps. But then, again, if they were representative of the market then WoW would be a niche game, ToR would have closed shop two years ago, and the genre would be ruled by F2P sandboxes.
And, what trend? Seems to me most of the big guns on the horizon are fairly standard "themeparks", however one cares to define that term. The only possible exception is EQN, and frankly I'll believe that when I see it. Trusting Smed's word on anything has never been a safe bet, not that he would even really have to lie, exactly, to get people around here to believe a game that hasn't even really entered alpha is everything they want it to be,
I've been hearing the whole "subs are dead, long live F2P" and "Themeparks are dead, long live sandboxes" mantra for almost two years now. It's starting to remind me of the 90's when every year was the year Linux was going to take over the desktop.
Originally posted by udon Originally posted by DMKano http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/ Thoughts? I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.
If you read what they say it sounds like they think it's going to sell a lot of boxes and subs at least short term but it's long term viability is up in the air. Well duh, if TESO doesn't innovate day 1 onward it is going to have issues holding onto subs. They are going to have to fight every month to keep those subs by giving players something to sub for.
And I find it interesting they voted FFXIV game of the year and traditional sub models the biggest blunder of the year. They do know it's a Sub game right?
As Bre explained in the comments section, Game of the Year has to be an MMORPG that launched in 2013 (that was their stipulation). There were very short pickings between indie games, Defiance, FFXIV, and Neverwinter. So, honestly it was the best of the worst.
And the reason that traditional sub models is getting hot-listed for blunder is because of the plethora of non-sub, high-quality MMO's that have they have to compete with. Games like GW2 having bi-weekly content updates show that a sub is not needed to do many updates compared to WoW's once-in-a-while patches every so many months for it's $15 monthly. Their expansion of the year was one of those updates for GW2: Super Adventure Box; that goes to show you something of the quality of it's content updates.
As for TESO, it will have issues. So far it's a love it or hate it relationship with the press that's covered the game. And it's become apparently clear that there's far more than 50% that are in the "hate it" category of that split. Much of the hate is through people that are saying the animation/combat is nowhere near ready to launch and will need more than 4 months to fix; it's clunky and troublesome for players to use compared other quality games. Another issue, arguably the most important, is that it doesn't feel likea very well built, quality MMORPG. Instead it feels more like an elder scrolls game with multiplayer slapped on haphazardly.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by udon Originally posted by DMKano http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/ Thoughts? I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.
Payment model and game quality are 2 separate things.
Subscription model is going the way of the dinasaurs, I agree with that, especially from the developers viewpoint, as cash shop provides 100x more possibilities (give any type of player an option), while subscription is - convince all players that the game is worth another $15 for one more month.
So as a developer in sub model, its a losing battle as no matter how good your game is, players will get bored and unsub.
F2P game - player get bored and leave, no problem, they can leave and come back whenever they want, you are not under pressure to convince them to resub, the players don't feel pressured to play because they paid.
When F2P model is done right (not predatory or manipulative) - its head and shoulders better than a sub model.
This is where the argument fails really for F2try, pay to progress games.
All cash shops are predatory and manipulative by nature because there a games sole source of income. Most of these survive because a few thousand people dump money into the shops every month. If people truly came and went and never spent anything, as you claim, the game would die. What gets developed is more fluff or more cock block items to get more money out of those people who invest money, thus any proper development or bug fixing gets ignored.
Subscribing means that ultimately the developer is responsible to those who pay the sub, like a magazine subscription. Bug issues? Get fixed because you might lose subs, new content? will happen periodically because you might lose subs. F2try games? who cares? some other mug will pay for the fluff/lockboxes if someone else leaves....
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
You make me like charity