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Anyone else annoyed with the ESO bashing?

ArndushArndush Dallas, TXPosts: 303Member

I have a prediciton for 2014. ESO will "fail." Why? Because it's a bad game? Nope. Because, no one can tell who the market is for this game? No. Because, TES fans will be turned off by the subs? No. Because there won't be enough endgame PvE? No. Nope it will "fail" because it seems the majority of the MMO community has already decided it will do so.

Frankly, I don't care if it has 250,000 subs, 500,000 subs, 1 million subs, 5 million subs, etc. To me, it will be a success if they nail the endgame 3 faction PvP and have a dedicated loyal player base for that PvP. If that happens, I'll be having fun for years to come and people playing WildStar, EQN, or whatever the MMO du jour is can rant all they want about the terrible failure that is ESO.

Now, if they don't nail that experience, then in my mind it will truly fail and I'll be moving on to Star Citizen and Camelot: Unchained. But, I'm at least going to approach the launch of ESO with an open mind.

Just my 2cp,

Arndush

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Comments

  • LimitationsLimitations Painesville, OHPosts: 71Member Uncommon
    When the NDA is gone, a lot of people will talk about it more, including me. A lot of people bash the game, and the majority of people I know who bashed it I.E friends, have played in the Beta. I'm excited to see what happens when the NDA is gone.

    Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
    And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
    You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
    And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    Why get anoyed, its the same people bashing every game that isnt exactly to their liking....

    when will they finally realise that sandbox mmos are boring like hell?

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    When has an internet forum ( especially this one ) ever represented a majority ?

    If the game fails it's because the masses that have ever been to a forum didn't like it and left to play something else. Not because their tinny brains got mind fucked into believing this nonsense. 

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Tacoma, WAPosts: 738Member

    Here is mmorpg.com in a nutshell.

    "This will fail, that will fail... DOOOOOOOOOOOM, dumbed down this, dumbed down that, failure, hype, lol your opinion is irrelevant but mine means everything."

    Don't be annoyed with the hate, bashing, whatever. It happens to every game. Its the norm. :P

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,175Member Common

    No, but I sure am sick of people telling others that they cant have an opinion unless it falls in line with the "everything is OK" crowd, same with them being dismissed outright with things like "its the same people every time". The people that talk about about games without an NDA give far more actual reasons why they think that way than those that come in with blind defense and outright dismissals.

    Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Unrealistic expectations.  There are a lot of people who seem to think it's feasible to design an MMO that's "modded Skyrim."  I think opinions are also really skewed towards the negative right now, because everyone who has actually played the betas is still under NDA, so those of us with positive things to say have to skirt the whole issue.

    You make me like charity

  • JJ82JJ82 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,175Member Common
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Unrealistic expectations.  There are a lot of people who seem to think it's feasible to design an MMO that's "modded Skyrim."  I think opinions are also really skewed towards the negative right now, because everyone who has actually played the betas is still under NDA, so those of us with positive things to say have to skirt the whole issue.

    What part of Skyrim cannot be done in an MMO?

    Complete open world? been done.

    No class limitations? Done.

    Modding? Done in both UI ways and in game item ways via the Foundry in CoH/Neverwinter, even SWG had build your own guild quests.

    Housing? Done.

    No faction racial locks? Done.

    Game with factions but no closed off faction zones? Done.

    PvP not behind an invisible wall? Done.

    Not being funneled from the start of the game to a central area? Done.

    More sandbox than Themepark? Done.

    There can be a TES MMO, but it would have had to have been made by people not wanting to make a DaoC sequel. And this does not cover many of the things people are complaining about which will be fully covered when the DNA is lifted.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • SawlstoneSawlstone barrie, ONPosts: 301Member
    I love it! Because it makes me laugh that people choose to bash anything at all instead of simply not playing it....
  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    No. These are the type of people who called ToR and GW2 correctly. They do good work.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by JJ82

     

    Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

    You should probably read that " long" article if you're going to put words like that in his mouth.

  • ArndushArndush Dallas, TXPosts: 303Member
    Originally posted by JJ82

    No, but I sure am sick of people telling others that they cant have an opinion unless it falls in line with the "everything is OK" crowd, same with them being dismissed outright with things like "its the same people every time". The people that talk about about games without an NDA give far more actual reasons why they think that way than those that come in with blind defense and outright dismissals.Its so bad that Raph Koster wrote a nice long article about how fanboys are the single worst element in gaming that causes far more harm than even trolls. See, not even well known game makers like you.

     

    I never said someone can't have or voice their opinions. I'm not saying the game will be a success. I'm not even sure I'll like the way they do the PVP, which is the most important element of the game from my perspective. I just don't know yet. As I said, I'm just approaching the game with an open mind and I grow frustrated by the wonton negativity and frankly, I don't give a damn if game makers like me. Just as long as they make a good game.
  • gambe1gambe1 KrmeljPosts: 123Member
    No, it is because everything we saw so far was crap. Leaked beta video, rubbish pvp video, etc. It does not look like a triple A MMO at all. In fact it looks like they are not even trying, and as a big fan of the franchise, i would hate to see, how a fail MMO would ruin all of it.
  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Why get anoyed, its the same people bashing every game that isnt exactly to their liking....

    when will they finally realise that sandbox mmos are boring like hell?

    (/answer) .................... when they will have dececent Sandboxes to play..........

    When developers will get bored (and broke) of making thousands of Themepark MMOs made with the same blueprint and start making some AAA Sandboxes, maybe people will have the chance to find the Sandboxes are boring......... or maybe not.

     

    See the point here is that in the modern MMO industry there is not enough diversification and what people complaints is the fact that developers make millions of Themeparks and almost no Sandboxes (with a ratio of 20 to 1 wich is not a fair ratio of Themeparkers vs Sandboxers).

    So when a new Themepark comes out people automatically goes "No........... not again". Do you blame them?

     

    Considering the fact that Sandboxes kickstarted the whole MMO industry, I find it ironic that they were unceremoniously dropped by the MMO industry after WoW came out, just because THAT game hit the jackpot of 10 Million players.

    History thought us that after WoW there were not succesfull Themepark MMOs, but just games that did OK.

    It's funny though that even though there are hundreds of Themepark games out there, the second most successful MMO in NA/EU is one of the rare Sandbox................ EvE (and it is not even Fantasy themed which supposedly is far more popular than Sci-Fi)

     

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by Arndush

    I have a prediciton for 2014. ESO will "fail." Why? Because it's a bad game? Nope. Because, no one can tell who the market is for this game? No. Because, TES fans will be turned off by the subs? No. Because there won't be enough endgame PvE? No. Nope it will "fail" because it seems the majority of the MMO community has already decided it will do so.

    Frankly, I don't care if it has 250,000 subs, 500,000 subs, 1 million subs, 5 million subs, etc. To me, it will be a success if they nail the endgame 3 faction PvP and have a dedicated loyal player base for that PvP. If that happens, I'll be having fun for years to come and people playing WildStar, EQN, or whatever the MMO du jour is can rant all they want about the terrible failure that is ESO.

    Now, if they don't nail that experience, then in my mind it will truly fail and I'll be moving on to Star Citizen and Camelot: Unchained. But, I'm at least going to approach the launch of ESO with an open mind.

    Just my 2cp,

    Arndush

    No offense but people like you drive me up a wall. 

     

    If so many people are bashing it. That does NOT mean they're doing it just to bash it. They're doing it, most likely, because they don't like what they've done with the IP they licensed, and the game itself isn't what it should have been in their opinion.

     

    You may not like it, but the game most likely is a giant copy-cat of some other "well known" product that recently released. I'm not in beta, but I hear from others some really interesting things (not gonna say if positive or negative).

     

    That said, if SO many people are bashing the game then there is something to it, and not just because random people looking at it from a keyboard-warrior perspective where they've only been following the videos, then there is most likely reason for that.

     

    I myself have been following it, and personally it looks like they went in a horrible direction and it will fail, but that's my personal opinion. I also said the same thing about SWTOR and Diablo 3 but was trolled for claiming such things and then it turns out months later everyone is agreeing with me. 

     

    This forum is like the Twilight Zone for me sometimes tbh. One minute people are trolling you saying you know nothing, but then a month or so later they're all buddy-buddy with you repeating the same things you were saying that they hated you for saying.

     

    /boggle

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    I suggest not visiting any gaming forums then for any game.
  • PigglesworthPigglesworth Delaware, OHPosts: 257Member Uncommon
    If you want a real conversation about the game, visit TamrielFoundry.com

    @PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

    Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

    Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon

    It's an anonymous internet forum so there is very little accountability.

     

    People get banned here all the time when they consistently go over the line, especially with personal attacks, and they then just turn around and make a brand new forum name using a different email address and keep right on going.

     

    There are legitimate reasons for people to like or dislike different aspects of this game. But you should be very suspicious of, and just dismiss outright, anyone who likes or dislikes everything about ESO.

     

    For example, I love what they're doing with classes, skills and progression and the AvA - including the faction lock. I'm curious with a "wait and see attitude" about the no-AH economic model, itemization and crafting. And I'm not crazy about the multiple-guild membership, the free-for-all PvE "megaserver" with phasing or the kludgy 50+ access to the other alliance areas for PvE.

     

    I put all that together and my personal decision is that I like what I'm seeing and will buy it. But other people will lean the other way. I can even see how some people have personal "no-go" triggers that they can't get past - that could be anything that annoys them enough.

     

    For example, I'm usually pretty tolerant but I have a very hard time getting past the sexualization of child-like races in many eastern MMOs. I find it so off-putting that I don't even give them much of a chance.

     

    For others this trigger could be the subscription pay model, the faction-lock, the instancing, whatever... I've even seen people in this forum say that if you can't sit on the chairs in the ESO world, they won't play it. 

     

    Shrug... no MMO is for everyone. 

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    (

    Considering the fact that Sandboxes kickstarted the whole MMO industry, I find it ironic that they were unceremoniously dropped by the MMO industry after WoW came out, just because THAT game hit the jackpot of 10 Million players.

    History thought us that after WoW there were not succesfull Themepark MMOs, but just games that did OK.

    It's funny though that even though there are hundreds of Themepark games out there, the second most successful MMO in NA/EU is one of the rare Sandbox................ EvE (and it is not even Fantasy themed which supposedly is far more popular than Sci-Fi)

     

    That's all well and good from the players side of things but... what happened to sandbox games when wow came out ? The died.

    Eve is arguably the second most successful mmo and it's a sandbox so why does it only have a slightly larger player base than any of the uncountable themepark games out there that ppl love to say failed ? If it really is the holy grail of sandbox games why isn't it at 10 million subs. 

    I've always believed that if you put a themepark player in a sand box they'll be bored by the first hour. They may tell you on a forum they want a sandbox but if they can't make their own fun for a few hours in a themepark how will they do it when they have to make their own fun all the time every time they log in ?

    the answer....they wont, and developers know this. It's why games like EQN only have sandbox features and didn't go full sandbox. You do that and you doom your game to a small population.... it may be great and the people who play it will love it like the next coming of swg, but that isn't what companies are looking for when they invest multi millions into a game.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,635Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    When has an internet forum ( especially this one ) ever represented a majority ?

    If the game fails it's because the masses that have ever been to a forum didn't like it and left to play something else. Not because their tinny brains got mind fucked into believing this nonsense. 

    Agreed.  The forums represent a tiny subset in both participation and views. 

     

    As for the question in the subject line. It isn't just ESO bashing that's getting annoying, it's the very narrow-minded and all too common "Game lacks [poster's pet feature]. FAIL" posts that I'm growing tired of.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    No.
  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    OP why do you even care about the bashing of this game on this site and others? People 99% of the time find out things not from forums anyways they try the game themselves and either like it or dont with most who hate it or love it not bothering to post in this soap box drama. Anyone who frequents these forums knows that its the same angry jaded people that have been here for years complaining daily about every single game that releases. Hell I even enjoy bashing games sometimes , its life we are humans which bitch and moan when we are in a bad mood and we praise and act more optimistically when we are in a good mood. I played the beta for this , the game is fine people wanting to bash the game claiming they were in beta who seem to not be able to wait to bash it after the nda comes off are drama queens period. Who gives a rats ass what they think? you know?
  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    No. These are the type of people who called ToR and GW2 correctly. They do good work.

    Thank you brother............

    Same people that also predicted TSW going F2P within 3 months and predicting that Wildstar will go the same way of TSW.

    While ESO will sell +3 Million copies (thanks to the TES badge alone) then will bleed paying customer fast, reaching the SWTOR current level (I will buy ESO btw since I am a TES fan..........pardon.........hater)

    But hey............... what do we know.

    You know some people has enough experience to know what they are talking about, it is not just pure hate all the time..........

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    OP it's just par for the course when it comes to MMORPG.com.  Heck, according to some posters here on this site, GW2 failed, is shutting down soon, the Anet dev team will be fired, ... etc, etc.  Just roll with it.  Don't expect the hate to die down anytime soon, specially if it's a successful game.  In fact that will just prolong the hate even more.  You can either butt heads with people here over it or realize it's pointless because you can't convince them of your way of thinking and vice versa.  Doesn't mean you can't call people out with double standards though.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Unrealistic expectations.  There are a lot of people who seem to think it's feasible to design an MMO that's "modded Skyrim."  I think opinions are also really skewed towards the negative right now, because everyone who has actually played the betas is still under NDA, so those of us with positive things to say have to skirt the whole issue.

    "modded skyrim"? How so?

    "Skyrim"? Yes, that's very much possible. Morrowind as well.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    No. These are the type of people who called ToR and GW2 correctly. They do good work.

    Thank you brother............

    Same people that also predicted TSW going F2P within 3 months and predicting that Wildstar will go the same way of TSW.

    While ESO will sell +3 Million copies (thanks to the TES badge alone) then will bleed paying customer fast, reaching the SWTOR current level (I will buy ESO btw since I am a TES fan..........pardon.........hater)

    But hey............... what do we know.

    You know some people has enough experience to know what they are talking about, it is not just pure hate all the time..........

    Lol... and some just think they do.

     

    Calling TOR and GW2 correctly... correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there more people playing TOR and GW2 at any given time than playing Eve? Was Eve "called correctly?"

     

    So for the record, you're calling it 3 Mil + and then bleed off fast? Care to qualify the "+" and the "fast" so that we may be suitably impressed with your "calling it right" when the time comes?

     

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