I am interested, Vanguard, once you got past the technical problems was a great mmo imo. I had a brand new machine and it ran fairly well on it, so I am not as jaded as some.
I am not super excited for anything on the horizon, intrigued by EQN, but if I am honest with myself, it is probably going to be way too casual, and I am not a huge fan of f2p on top of it.
So if Brad can make VG2, or the EQ/VG/UO mix or whatever, I am interested.
It's interesting how everyone goes back to how Brad may have done drugs while running Vanguard. Even if that's the case, the end result is still better than most MMO's that have come out recently.
Yes, bugs and poor tech doomed it, but despite all that this is a game that people still play. There are MMO's released post Vanguard that no longer exist.
Your argument for Vanguards imaginary success is "some games have failed worse?"
Not gonna hold up when he finds himself very short on kickstarter money(hopefully).
For those wondering about Brad Mcquaid's drug use among other things, the Vincent Napoli rant is a good place to start. The original is gone but thankfully most places have a copy of what he said:
Here was the story on how Brad was nowhere to be found for 6 months but showed up the Friday before the parking lot firing to get his stuff. Andy Platter ended up giving the news.
It's fine if you feel Brad Mcquaid has a great vision and will make a awesome game and you want to support it. But hopefully people can settle down with all the revisionist history that he didn't have a drug problem or that he didn't crash one company into the ground screwing over 150 people.
This is only 2 stories btw there are dozens out there for anyone that wants to look them up. I have played and still play Vanguard and I would take a look at Brad's new game but I call a spade and spade and we'll have to see some results first. No one wants to be burned that bad again.
God, if someone could teach starving third-worlders to code AI and push voxels, kickstarter and the 'I don't care about my financial future' MMO community could end world hunger in three months.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
-Brad McQuaid is random and indecisive. After Vanguard he had a 2 year blog with fans talking about a new game, finally revealed he was making a facebook game, then rejoins sony to work on vanguard, requests a move to EQ1 for some reason, fired shortly after that. Now his whim is this kickstarter....
-Can't lead yet here he is trying to lead again
-He's the past, his only success came in 1999, things have changed quite a bit in 14 years and Vanguard is proof he hasn't evolved as a designer
-Took him way too long to deliver a subpar game. If you knew your kickstarter money would take 5+ years to finish would you still donate? I'm guessing you wouldn't but with Brad that time frame is entirely possible
-Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
-As mentioned many times, he is the best of examples of a sell out. He dropped Vanguard faster then panties on prom night. Skipped out on the employee firing, disappeared during the most crucial development times, sold out to the company that ruined the beloved Everquest franchise to begin with, WoWified Vanguard and deleted the forums a month before launch, and a plethora of other examples.
-Kickstarters are scams in general, when a customer pays for a service far before the service is completed quality always takes a nose dive. It's just bad business and the end product will suffer the most. You will inevitably not try as hard when you're already paid. That's why almost every service and good is paid for by the customer, after the fact or simultaneously. Not years before, this isn't ****** MMO lay away.
-When all was said and done Vanguard was still nothing like Everquest classic. You could solo to max level in beta, hand holding everywhere, every area bugged in some immersion breaking way, clay fighter graphics ploped on dull lifeless world, etc.
Anyone giving him a dime has lost their senses. This guy cannot run a gaming company, his last one was a disaster and he stiffed most of his employees. If you think a good game can come out of this you are beyond naive.
Originally posted by Fendel84M I'm not usually this cynical. But can anyone trust Brad enough after Vanguard to give him their money?
I thought he was working on EQ Next anyways? What gives?
The man has many flaws (budgeting, delivering on promises, alleged drug use)... but I can't fault his vision / ideas. Vanguard at its core was a brilliant game, it just fell short technically. In a sea of clones and dull ideas, it cant hurt to let him give it a shot.
Maybe he has learnt and grown from his experiences? I know the work I created 6 years ago would not be reflective of my current expertise. Lets just hope he gets some serious help with someone who can handle funds and budgets.
Originally posted by Velocinox God, if someone could teach starving third-worlders to code AI and push voxels, kickstarter and the 'I don't care about my financial future' MMO community could end world hunger in three months.
It's interesting how everyone goes back to how Brad may have done drugs while running Vanguard. Even if that's the case, the end result is still better than most MMO's that have come out recently.
Yes, bugs and poor tech doomed it, but despite all that this is a game that people still play. There are MMO's released post Vanguard that no longer exist.
Your argument for Vanguards imaginary success is "some games have failed worse?"
Not gonna hold up when he finds himself very short on kickstarter money(hopefully).
My argument is that Vanguard has more personality and interesting ideas that a lot of current MMO's coming out, despite it's trouble development. Ergo, my hope is that if the development process goes better this time, a game with the personality of Vanguard but better developed will happen.
I would rather take a risk on a new idea, than only have these big budget MMO's that bring little new to the genre. Specifically, a genre that is now more defined by what WoW does, as opposed to what EQ2 does.
It's interesting how everyone goes back to how Brad may have done drugs while running Vanguard. Even if that's the case, the end result is still better than most MMO's that have come out recently.
Yes, bugs and poor tech doomed it, but despite all that this is a game that people still play. There are MMO's released post Vanguard that no longer exist.
Your argument for Vanguards imaginary success is "some games have failed worse?"
Not gonna hold up when he finds himself very short on kickstarter money(hopefully).
My argument is that Vanguard has more personality and interesting ideas that a lot of current MMO's coming out, despite it's trouble development. Ergo, my hope is that if the development process goes better this time, a game with the personality of Vanguard but better developed will happen.
I would rather take a risk on a new idea, than only have these big budget MMO's that bring little new to the genre. Specifically, a genre that is now more defined by what WoW does, as opposed to what EQ2 does.
You are talking about Vanguard right? Tried the game several times and every time I just gave up. Could not find any form of a fun factor. IMO I don't see any redeeming qualities that compare it to current MMO's, . I have some good friends that worked on his game, so I know for a fact what a horrible employer he is. He took his money and ran and left them all hanging. Despicable if you ask me.
You are talking about Vanguard right? Tried the game several times and every time I just gave up. Could not find any form of a fun factor. IMO I don't see any redeeming qualities that compare it to current MMO's, . I have some good friends that worked on his game, so I know for a fact what a horrible employer he is. He took his money and ran and left them all hanging. Despicable if you ask me.
Agreed, this behavior should not be supported, least of all by the fans.
I don't think he should leave MMO's, like you said he has good ideas. Something the genre is in desperate need of. He sure as hell shouldn't be leading a project though, not sure what he's smoking but apparently he's learned nothing about himself over the past few years.
He should be a think tank guy and a programmer and that is it. Not in charge of a single human being.
I'm funding him he has ideas I like, he makes races I like, he makes worlds I like, he makes classes I like. His worlds feel like worlds instead of closets with tunnels.
I just have to ask those who are vehemently ringing alarms on the man. How many of you are still playing games like SWTOR with its invisible boots on the cash shop and other problems, what grand mmo are -you- playing right now that is faultless and perfect?
There are no saviors in mmo development, absolutely none so lets stop acting like this guy is the most horrible of the horrible.
He was just the one who got caught.
I'd rather have half ass Brad than full time EA
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Vanguard had a beautiful original fantasy world where risk and reward still mattered to an extent. I felt a sense of Wonder but that is just me. All the new insta gratification games are made for players with no time, no imagination, no real desire to experience what MMO's can offer, no willingness to pay for the consequense of their actions within the frame of the game. They want all Things handed and wants exactly what the next guy gets. This mentality is what you find amongst children in kindergarten and it is just so so sad that there are pople in this world asking for this. Cause the ones they are really cheating are first and foremost themselves. But oh well I guess Brad most certainly did let people Down with the rest of Sigil. But he created Worlds like no other game in the last what? 15 years?
I installed and have been playing Vanguard because of this thread, and I have to say it is actually an enjoyable game that is very different from other themepark MMORPGs and also the graphics look amazing for a game that is as old as it is. If this is what is considered a poorly made game then I may just have to support Brad because this is one of the best poorly made themeparks I've played in awhile...
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 The problem is that his biggest weakness is his lack of ability to lead a project and here he is......trying to lead a project again. The fact that he's trying to lead instead of be a crucial cog in the machine is proof that he hasn't learned a damn thing.
Well let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something...
Originally posted by pierth Thanks for the heads up. The man can craft wonderful worlds but man does he suck at being in charge of a project.
He definitely has issues with scope, and biting off more than he can chew. But if he launches a kickstarter, I will definitely throw in some $.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 The problem is that his biggest weakness is his lack of ability to lead a project and here he is......trying to lead a project again. The fact that he's trying to lead instead of be a crucial cog in the machine is proof that he hasn't learned a damn thing.
Let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something.
FantasyFreak11's had excellent points, too; but they won't stop me from throwing $20 at the kickstarter.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Xthos ...I am not super excited for anything on the horizon, intrigued by EQN, but if I am honest with myself, it is probably going to be way too casual, and I am not a huge fan of f2p on top of it...
Excellent point. No game out or in development excites me. EQN is close, but fails because: 1. Cartoon graphics (they age well, ya right) 2. Will be a cash-shop game 3. Designed to run on consoles 4. Will probably, in the end, be just another WoW clone with a few interesting things thrown in.
Ya, the time is ripe for Brad to crank out a game; hopefully as fast as they cranked out EQ1.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Razeekster I installed and have been playing Vanguard because of this thread, and I have to say it is actually an enjoyable game that is very different from other themepark MMORPGs and also the graphics look amazing for a game that is as old as it is. If this is what is considered a poorly made game then I may just have to support Brad because this is one of the best poorly made themeparks I've played in awhile...
SoE put an enormous amount of work into it to make it playable. The ideas are Brad's (and SoE actually steered the game a little more towards the norm than it was originally) but his company's execution was terrible.
It was unquestionably poorly made, but it was also a long time ago. Its entirely possible Brad has learned from his mistakes and will also surround himself with more competent people.
It's not like I don't have some reservations about Brad, from the speculation I have read. But two things are making me support his Kickstarter:
1. There is no other MMO that's incoming that is billed (or actually appears to be) as a successor to Vanguard, except for his. Perhaps if what I saw from EQN was more inline with my dream MMO I would support that instead. Or, if someone wanted to make a new post-apocalyptic MMO, I would be there instead.
2. I have more faith in a visionary with passion that I do a corporation that is willing to toss vision under the bus to expand their margins.
I don't blindly trust any developer or company. I shrug my shoulders and figure hey, I thought Bioware with the Star Wars IP was a slam dunk into an awesome pool of fun, and look how that turned out.
For those saying "ZOMG wut u smoking VG suxxx" I am not saying it is some amazing MMO (it if was more people would play) just that I personally love the world, music and mechanics and if Brad is trying to make a game like that but with better tech, then I hope it comes to fruition.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 The problem is that his biggest weakness is his lack of ability to lead a project and here he is......trying to lead a project again. The fact that he's trying to lead instead of be a crucial cog in the machine is proof that he hasn't learned a damn thing.
Well let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something...
Originally posted by pierth Thanks for the heads up. The man can craft wonderful worlds but man does he suck at being in charge of a project.
He definitely has issues with scope, and biting off more than he can chew. But if he launches a kickstarter, I will definitely throw in some $.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 The problem is that his biggest weakness is his lack of ability to lead a project and here he is......trying to lead a project again. The fact that he's trying to lead instead of be a crucial cog in the machine is proof that he hasn't learned a damn thing.
Let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something.
FantasyFreak11's had excellent points, too; but they won't stop me from throwing $20 at the kickstarter.
It looks like Brad's Vanguard Post-Mortem posts are no longer up, which is too bad as he went into detail about the mistakes he made, the things he learned, and the reasoning behind his decisions.
For example, he talks about how part of the reason for the technical failures of the game is because they made the game too large and complex. They assumed that people would love the game so much, they would spend more cash to upgrade their rigs (which is what happened when EQ1 came out).
The problem was the jump from 2D and MUDs to a fully 3D world was huge, and worth the upgrade costs. The jump from EQ1 to Vanguard (in a world where WoW was out) was much less so.
I remember in early design documents the three continents were to be about the same size. At release, the third was much, much smaller, due to these design decisions.
These weren't irrational and stupid decisions. They made decisions based on past experiences, and didn't fully comprehend the changing dynamics in the MMO space. And he recognizes this and will likely not make similar mistakes.
Comments
I am interested, Vanguard, once you got past the technical problems was a great mmo imo. I had a brand new machine and it ran fairly well on it, so I am not as jaded as some.
I am not super excited for anything on the horizon, intrigued by EQN, but if I am honest with myself, it is probably going to be way too casual, and I am not a huge fan of f2p on top of it.
So if Brad can make VG2, or the EQ/VG/UO mix or whatever, I am interested.
Was this the guy who was in charge of Vanguard development?
edit: I guess he was. Well, from what I know, his ability to manage a project is less than stellar, so I'm curious to see how this will turn out lol.
Your argument for Vanguards imaginary success is "some games have failed worse?"
Not gonna hold up when he finds himself very short on kickstarter money(hopefully).
For those wondering about Brad Mcquaid's drug use among other things, the Vincent Napoli rant is a good place to start. The original is gone but thankfully most places have a copy of what he said:
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/36783
Here was the story on how Brad was nowhere to be found for 6 months but showed up the Friday before the parking lot firing to get his stuff. Andy Platter ended up giving the news.
http://www.1up.com/news/sigil-firestorm
It's fine if you feel Brad Mcquaid has a great vision and will make a awesome game and you want to support it. But hopefully people can settle down with all the revisionist history that he didn't have a drug problem or that he didn't crash one company into the ground screwing over 150 people.
This is only 2 stories btw there are dozens out there for anyone that wants to look them up. I have played and still play Vanguard and I would take a look at Brad's new game but I call a spade and spade and we'll have to see some results first. No one wants to be burned that bad again.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Reasons not to fund this:
-Brad McQuaid is random and indecisive. After Vanguard he had a 2 year blog with fans talking about a new game, finally revealed he was making a facebook game, then rejoins sony to work on vanguard, requests a move to EQ1 for some reason, fired shortly after that. Now his whim is this kickstarter....
-Can't lead yet here he is trying to lead again
-He's the past, his only success came in 1999, things have changed quite a bit in 14 years and Vanguard is proof he hasn't evolved as a designer
-Took him way too long to deliver a subpar game. If you knew your kickstarter money would take 5+ years to finish would you still donate? I'm guessing you wouldn't but with Brad that time frame is entirely possible
-Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
-As mentioned many times, he is the best of examples of a sell out. He dropped Vanguard faster then panties on prom night. Skipped out on the employee firing, disappeared during the most crucial development times, sold out to the company that ruined the beloved Everquest franchise to begin with, WoWified Vanguard and deleted the forums a month before launch, and a plethora of other examples.
-Kickstarters are scams in general, when a customer pays for a service far before the service is completed quality always takes a nose dive. It's just bad business and the end product will suffer the most. You will inevitably not try as hard when you're already paid. That's why almost every service and good is paid for by the customer, after the fact or simultaneously. Not years before, this isn't ****** MMO lay away.
-When all was said and done Vanguard was still nothing like Everquest classic. You could solo to max level in beta, hand holding everywhere, every area bugged in some immersion breaking way, clay fighter graphics ploped on dull lifeless world, etc.
The man has many flaws (budgeting, delivering on promises, alleged drug use)... but I can't fault his vision / ideas. Vanguard at its core was a brilliant game, it just fell short technically. In a sea of clones and dull ideas, it cant hurt to let him give it a shot.
Maybe he has learnt and grown from his experiences? I know the work I created 6 years ago would not be reflective of my current expertise. Lets just hope he gets some serious help with someone who can handle funds and budgets.
That gave me a good laugh haha.
My argument is that Vanguard has more personality and interesting ideas that a lot of current MMO's coming out, despite it's trouble development. Ergo, my hope is that if the development process goes better this time, a game with the personality of Vanguard but better developed will happen.
I would rather take a risk on a new idea, than only have these big budget MMO's that bring little new to the genre. Specifically, a genre that is now more defined by what WoW does, as opposed to what EQ2 does.
You are talking about Vanguard right? Tried the game several times and every time I just gave up. Could not find any form of a fun factor. IMO I don't see any redeeming qualities that compare it to current MMO's, . I have some good friends that worked on his game, so I know for a fact what a horrible employer he is. He took his money and ran and left them all hanging. Despicable if you ask me.
Agreed, this behavior should not be supported, least of all by the fans.
I will never support him. He's a has been, but no more.
The staff being fired at the car park, I will remember it forever. He has " some " nice idea, that's all.
He should leave the mmo stage forever....
Let him go.....
RIP Orc Choppa
I don't think he should leave MMO's, like you said he has good ideas. Something the genre is in desperate need of. He sure as hell shouldn't be leading a project though, not sure what he's smoking but apparently he's learned nothing about himself over the past few years.
He should be a think tank guy and a programmer and that is it. Not in charge of a single human being.
The unfixable disaster that was Vangaurd was living proof of that.
Strange.
I was under the impression that all the devs since 2012's FTP relaunch were telling the truth in blogs and patch notes that they are fixing things.
twitch.tv/itpaladin
@ITPalg
YouTube: ITPalGame
I'm funding him he has ideas I like, he makes races I like, he makes worlds I like, he makes classes I like. His worlds feel like worlds instead of closets with tunnels.
I just have to ask those who are vehemently ringing alarms on the man. How many of you are still playing games like SWTOR with its invisible boots on the cash shop and other problems, what grand mmo are -you- playing right now that is faultless and perfect?
There are no saviors in mmo development, absolutely none so lets stop acting like this guy is the most horrible of the horrible.
He was just the one who got caught.
I'd rather have half ass Brad than full time EA
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Smile
Well let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something...
He definitely has issues with scope, and biting off more than he can chew. But if he launches a kickstarter, I will definitely throw in some $.
Let's hope he took some MBA or PM classes or something.
FantasyFreak11's had excellent points, too; but they won't stop me from throwing $20 at the kickstarter.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Excellent point. No game out or in development excites me. EQN is close, but fails because:
1. Cartoon graphics (they age well, ya right)
2. Will be a cash-shop game
3. Designed to run on consoles
4. Will probably, in the end, be just another WoW clone with a few interesting things thrown in.
Ya, the time is ripe for Brad to crank out a game; hopefully as fast as they cranked out EQ1.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Nope.
SoE put an enormous amount of work into it to make it playable. The ideas are Brad's (and SoE actually steered the game a little more towards the norm than it was originally) but his company's execution was terrible.
It was unquestionably poorly made, but it was also a long time ago. Its entirely possible Brad has learned from his mistakes and will also surround himself with more competent people.
It's not like I don't have some reservations about Brad, from the speculation I have read. But two things are making me support his Kickstarter:
1. There is no other MMO that's incoming that is billed (or actually appears to be) as a successor to Vanguard, except for his. Perhaps if what I saw from EQN was more inline with my dream MMO I would support that instead. Or, if someone wanted to make a new post-apocalyptic MMO, I would be there instead.
2. I have more faith in a visionary with passion that I do a corporation that is willing to toss vision under the bus to expand their margins.
I don't blindly trust any developer or company. I shrug my shoulders and figure hey, I thought Bioware with the Star Wars IP was a slam dunk into an awesome pool of fun, and look how that turned out.
For those saying "ZOMG wut u smoking VG suxxx" I am not saying it is some amazing MMO (it if was more people would play) just that I personally love the world, music and mechanics and if Brad is trying to make a game like that but with better tech, then I hope it comes to fruition.
It looks like Brad's Vanguard Post-Mortem posts are no longer up, which is too bad as he went into detail about the mistakes he made, the things he learned, and the reasoning behind his decisions.
For example, he talks about how part of the reason for the technical failures of the game is because they made the game too large and complex. They assumed that people would love the game so much, they would spend more cash to upgrade their rigs (which is what happened when EQ1 came out).
The problem was the jump from 2D and MUDs to a fully 3D world was huge, and worth the upgrade costs. The jump from EQ1 to Vanguard (in a world where WoW was out) was much less so.
I remember in early design documents the three continents were to be about the same size. At release, the third was much, much smaller, due to these design decisions.
These weren't irrational and stupid decisions. They made decisions based on past experiences, and didn't fully comprehend the changing dynamics in the MMO space. And he recognizes this and will likely not make similar mistakes.
[edited for grammar]