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I see why this game fell off hard.

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  • LittleBootLittleBoot roystonPosts: 326Member

    I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.  

    I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1.  In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.  

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,482Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LittleBoot

    I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.  

    I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1.  In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.  

    I agree. I can count on 1 hand, the people I know who like GW2. I can t even count haw many people wish it was more like GW1. Just no comparison between the 2 IMO.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by john25301
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112
    It fell off because you never actually progress, the game just tries to make you think you're progressing. The button spamming playstyle doesn't help either.

    the game fails for you when you are obsessed and addicted to progression and play 23/7.

    Play GW2 when you feel like and it's one of the best f2p mmo's out there.

    This sounds like Apple. You're (holding) playing it wrong. Did you consider that playing 23/7 is when he feels like playing?

    I don't know exactly how GW2 isn't ok 23/7.

    Also, it isn't like progression players in WoW play 23/7 for progression. There is raid locks in place.

    It is my opinion that gear based games are the ones trying to fool the players into believing they are progressing, when they are playing exactly the same just with different numbers.

    Global cooldown vs no global cooldown is just a different style.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by LittleBoot

    I think the game just isn't all that fun to play- it is as simple as that.  

    I would have been happier if they had simply upgraded the graphics on GW1.  In fact I am slightly pissed off that the release of this game effectively killed off the GW1 population.  

    I agree. I can count on 1 hand, the people I know who like GW2. I can t even count haw many people wish it was more like GW1. Just no comparison between the 2 IMO.

    Gameplay wise GW2 is IMO much superior to GW1.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Zzad
    Originally posted by reeereee
    Gw2's leveling system isn't perfect but it's miles ahead of quest grinding.  It's amazing that the one thing gw2 did right is at the top of your list of criticisms.

    Second that!

    I found leveling in GW2 a rewarding experience!

    Indeed, in my opinion the best part of GW2.

    You choose to roam the world doing tasks/hearts/events? You progress.

    You do dungeons, ANY dungeon in ANY mode? You progress.

    You choose to gather and craft? You progress.

    You choose to just explore? You progress.

    You choose to go to a lower level area to help a friend? You progress.

    I wish this was true in WoW too. Right now a RL friend of mine is at 68 with his alt monk, and I don't have a character in that level range, so we can't play together, and this sucks. In GW2, it would be possible.

    You cant level 1-80 in GW2 just by exploring.

    Aside from level scaling to the content of a specific zone (which is a feature WoW is currently testing, so ya), everything you mentioned is also an option in WoW.

    In WoW you gain XP (progress) by questing/tasks, you gain XP (progress) by running dungwons (i leveled at least 2 toons to max level thorugh dungeons only back when i played WoW...) you gain XP (progress) by gathering crafting mats, you gain XP (progress) by exploring the world. There are a few people in my guild who leveled max level toons just through archilogy back when Cata came out.

    This is not a knock on GW2 at all, but if you are going to compare the 2 games to reflect WoW in a negative light, at least ensure the majority of features you are listing arn't in WoW lol

    Please be serious. The XP you get from gathering/crafting in WoW is pathetic. Yeah, of course, you could level just with that, but it would be utterly painful.

    Also, in WoW you can't go to any dungeon in any mode, you have to go to the level specific ones or you gain nothing.

    And questing in WoW is very linear, even more since Cataclysm, once you started a zone you have to do it in a specific order for the next quest hub to be available and often also unphased, while in GW2 you can go wherever you want, you aren't forced to go from quest hub to quest hub.

    As I said, please be serious.

    I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.

    Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:

    http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything

    As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.

    So like I said, aside form your player level scaling to the content of a specific zone (you again listed that after i already acknowledged WoW doesnt currently have that), everything you listed is completely viable and used in WoW.

    BTW, ending your post with "please be serious", doesn't make my facts any less legitimate, or you any more "right".

  • WingeyeWingeye VaasaPosts: 58Member
    I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.

    lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor

    image
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by doodphace

    I love it when people use the "you need a carrot on a stick to enjoy a game?" argument to defend the almost complete lack of charecter progression in GW2 (more so at endgame), and try and make the person they are speaking to somehow feel bad and invalidate them. Since when did charecter progressions become synonomous with WoW's tier gear system?....

    The answer for the vast majority of MMO players is yes....it would be cool if there was some form of meaningful charecter progression, especially at endgame. There is no shame is saying that you like your charecter becoming stronger or better at certain things over time. Charecter progression in and of itself is the heart of what an MMORPG is. Some do it through constant skill increases/alternate advancement (a la sandboxes such as EVE or AO, or themeparks like EQ2 or AoC), and some do it via gear alone (WoW, Rift, SWTOR). There are many forms of "carrots", some people find certin forms of carrots more enjoyable than others, but the fact reamins that carrots are indeed very fun and keep players playing long term.

     

    There is also another form of progression - you becoming more skilled at the game.

    That same statement applies to all of the games on the market with in game charecter progression as well.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    My reason for buying the game and ...now not playing is the WvW. The warfare area looks great.But the play  is nothing but zerg...and endless  running to take and retake and retake the same objectives.It's much like a basketball game to see who can take as many objectives in a certain amount of time..and none of it means or accomplishes anything.

    There is no senses of victory...a great defense.....or pride in taking a keep.It's all about  numbers and points.

  • raslirasli boston, MAPosts: 56Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    There is no senses of victory...a great defense.....or pride in taking a keep.It's all about  numbers and points.

     

    There are tons of great defenses and people take pride in taking and defending their keeps all the time.  Just couple weeks ago, Jade Quarry server was able to defend and keep their home keep for 7 days straight against the overwelming force of Blackgate and they took great pride in doing so.  Instead of spewing non-sense about WvW, you should go and  join your server community (website and TS) to truly understand what is going on in WvW.

  • marcuslmmarcuslm Louisville, KYPosts: 253Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

    Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic.  If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together? 

    Agreed

    When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?

    I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace

    I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.

    Ah the "if you don't agree with me, you must not be playing" non-argument now. I'm playing right now, my both WoW accounts are active.

    Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:

    http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything

    As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.

    The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

    GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

    See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • aspectofgoreaspectofgore umePosts: 17Member
    It's a nice game.

    image
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by doodphace

    I am guessing you have not played WoW since they added gathering XP in cata, if you are under the impression that it is completely unreasonable to level a toon soly on gathering/professions.

    Ah the "if you don't agree with me, you must not be playing" non-argument now. I'm playing right now, my both WoW accounts are active.

    Heck, these very same forums laughed at WoW for the following:

    http://kotaku.com/5952018/after-twelve-days-wow-player-hits-level-90-without-killing-anything

    As I said earlier, there are folks in my guild who did just that, in a more than comparable amount of time quests would have taken.

    The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

    GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

    See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

    They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

    Please put your straw man away.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by marcuslm
    Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

    Actually levelling down is one of my most hated features- it makes a complete nonsense of the entire levelling process- it is beyond moronic.  If you are going to arbitrarily change a players level to suit the area they are in, why not get rid of traditional levels all together? 

    Agreed

    When I first heard about this particular feature I thought it was a good idea. Now I could go into these other areas and see them without waiting to level up. The reality was something different. I found that I missed the idea of there being areas that are dangerous. The scene in The Lord of the Rings where they realize the hobbits ran off into Fangorn Forrest (however it's spelled) comes to mind. It creates drama. You know that feeling you get when you have accidentally wandered into a dangerous area?

    I came to realize this about several things with GW2, the ideas sounded a whole lot better on paper than they ended up being in reality. Every once in a while I will jump in, but I usually don't stay very long. It's just not very fun.

    Are you agreeing, disagreeing, or being sarcastic? Serious question and cause I know we all make mistakes I did in this thread from the start. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing something.

     

    Must of been a feature of another game that your using as an example to agreeing.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace

    They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

    Please put your straw man away.

    I could post pictures of my level 90 characters, or of the new Monk I'm leveling right now, but you would of course still call me a liar and pretend they are fake.

    So I'm going to do what must be done with people repeating total misinformation on this forum: use the block list. Because anyone playing both WoW and GW2 knows that what you post is misinformation, intentionally inflating the importance of a feature in one game just to bash or belittle another game.

     

    I will still repeat this undeniable fact for you to think about and for the other readers too:

     

    You do not need 12 days /played to level to 90 with a brand new character in WoW when you do quests and dungeons, unlike the guy you linked who levelled only via gathering/crafting.

     

    It's painfully slow and non efficient, and the regular way (quests+dungeons) is at least 2x faster if you're really slow, 3x faster for the normal player. To the opposite, in GW2, you can get to max level simply through gathering/crafting and it's just as fast (if not faster) than questing and dungeoning.

    That's facts. Everything else is misinformation.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by doodphace

    They didnt have XP for gathering pre cata, it only got introduced in cata. You get almost the same XP from gathering as you do for completeing quests, which is why i said you prob havent even played it. There is a difference between "you dont agree with my opinion, so you must not have played it" and "you dont agree with these facts, so you must not have played it".

    Please put your straw man away.

    I could post pictures of my level 90 characters, or of the new Monk I'm leveling right now, but you would of course still call me a liar and pretend they are fake.

    So I'm going to do what must be done with people repeating total misinformation on this forum: use the block list. Because anyone playing both WoW and GW2 knows that what you post is misinformation, intentionally inflating the importance of a feature in one game just to bash or belittle another game.

     

    I will still repeat this undeniable fact for you to think about and for the other readers too:

     

    You do not need 12 days /played to level to 90 with a brand new character in WoW when you do quests and dungeons, unlike the guy you linked who levelled only via gathering/crafting.

     

    It's painfully slow and non efficient, and the regular way (quests+dungeons) is at least 2x faster if you're really slow, 3x faster for the normal player. To the opposite, in GW2, you can get to max level simply through gathering/crafting and it's just as fast (if not faster) than questing and dungeoning.

    That's facts. Everything else is misinformation.

    No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
     Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2. And as a side note, I dont think that you should be bragging about being able to level ifaster in GW2 than wow with proffs...

    And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

    Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

  • fantasyfreak112fantasyfreak112 Orange County, CAPosts: 499Member

    The XP from crafting is still pathetic, even with the cataclysm changes. Is it doable? Sure, people have done even more silly things in WoW and many other games. Is it as fast as questing and dungeoning? Definitely not. Hint: you do not need 12 days /played to hit 90 with dungeons and quests.

    GW2's gathering/crafting XP is VASTLY superior.

    See, you can't cheat me on that since I'm playing the game. I witness those things first hand.

    I don't get why people think they should get class levels for crafting. That's what crafting skill levels are for. If you're crafting to become a level 90 rogue crafting is not for you.

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member
    Originally posted by doodphace

    No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
     Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2.

    And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

    Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

    The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.

      The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by doodphace

    No one thing in wow will allow you to level in the same amount of time as antoher activity + dungeon (proffs VS quests AND dungeons).
     Leveling strictly through profesions is perfectly viable and comparable to questing alone. Herbing and dungeons will level you faster than questing alone. Questing and herbing will level you faster than dungeons alone...The exact same statement applies to GW2.

    And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

    Again, please stop with the straw man argument.

    The main difference with gathering/crafting is that in WoW you only get xp from gathering. In GW2, you can lvl just by crafting providing you have enough mats, say from another toon that gathered them all.

      The rest is all valid and dependent on what each player enjoys doing.

    +1

  • GMan33GMan33 Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 79Member Common
    Originally posted by Wingeye
    I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.

    lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor

     

    Yup that pretty much sums up my feeling of GW2. Its a fast food mmo, absolutely no legs for a long term game. I hate the non-trinity system they put in, absolutely hate it in every sense. There is nothing for someone who actually wants to advance their character to play. Just buy your 80 gear off market the second you 80 and your done.

    Never once by killing any mob, any named boss, any dungeon, any dragon has dropped anything of any significant excitement to look at.

    Its like you said, its a game built to just "play" but you get absolutely nothing in return for your investment....a complete waste of time in the video game sense of terms. But some like it.....

    I would actually rather play SWTOR then this, and I don't like SWTOR.

     

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wingeye
    I know right. Why should people care if their efforts produce results or not. Plenty of people are content mowing their lawn for 2 hours only to find no grass was cut at all. GW2 in a nutshell.

    lol.... exactly +1 for the metaphor

    Agreed. Best metaphor ever!!!!!

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • MoiraeMoirae New Orleans, LAPosts: 2,746Member Uncommon

    It fell off because it's just like all the other games out there with some small gimmicks added. Frankly, its slightly better than Everquest 2 in some ways and worse in others. But that's the case with every other game out there.

     

    These game companies come out screaming about how they're "Next Gen" when most of them don't have even the remotest clue what that actually means. It's like none of them have bothered to EVER talk to any players in the last 15 years. 

     

    It's quite amazing really... many thousands of websites dealing with MMO's like MMORPG but it feels like most of the developers and publishers don't bother to listen. There's a reason people keep going back to the older games... because the older games actually offer more than any current game out there. 

     

    To be fair, there are a few companies out there trying to improve on whats offered but there are no indications that they actually have as none of these games have actually been released to try them out. Most of them have been in development for almost a decade and many are considered vaporware. Why? Because the developers in them got sick to death of the behavior of the publishers and took it upon themselves to develop these games with a fraction of the money that the publishers have supplied and are relying on donations in good faith from players. 

     

    I really think this genre is in danger of imploding. And its going to happen with a relative bang with the creators of these games shocked when it finally occurs. 

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    And I like how you are willfully ignoring the fact that amount of days it takes to do something is completely relative to the amount of hours played each day.

    And you are conveniently ignoring the fact that we talk about "/played" time, aka time spent in game, which is completely unrelated to the amount of hours played each day.

    But I was expecting something like that, another misinformation attempt.

    This time I haven't forgotten to press the "block" link. Not only you post nonsense, but you are starting to be repetitive and rude. Not worth my time.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Porto AlegrePosts: 1,020Member Uncommon

    I think its silly in both games image

    "Hi i am CONAN the mighty warrior who spend his whole life knitting inside city walls. lets take down that giant dragon over there even tough  i never killed 1 mouse" image

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kenaoshi

    I think its silly in both games image

    "Hi i am CONAN the mighty warrior who spend his whole life knitting inside city walls. lets take down that giant dragon over there even tough  i never killed 1 mouse" image

    I agree with that actually, but we were talking about how games like GW2 and WoW work.

    My favorite system remains Ultima Online, where you raise your sword skill by actually using a sword, bow by using a bow, defense by taking hits, and cooking by cooking stuff, but there's no such thing as "levels" you can gain doing all this randomly. This makes 100% crafting characters possible without them still having the skill of an elite warrior.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

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