How many times have me, my friends, anyone I know, have spoken with in or out of a game bought anything on a cs (boosts, equipment, clothing, pets, mounts, house…. Anything at all) and had someone call me out or made any mention whatsoever about being straight or gay?
Answer – none.
This has not happened to you or anyone you know? Congratulations.
Do I think it happens? No. I do think that some people may be feeling more targeted, but that is their perception which is not reflective of reality.
Are you saying you believe it doesn’t happen at all? To absolutely no one? In a case of violation of ethics, impressions do matter.
The idea that only LGBT use vanity items, or use vanity items any more than other people is ludicous as is anything that thinks this. Vanity items are some of if not the biggest industry (if it was just one industry anyway) and largest expenditures of people in RL, why would a game be any different.
This is the opposite of what I said and meant. What I said is that Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers are targeted in the cash shop. Then I elaborated that E.S.A are not entirely LGBT or that LGBT is entirely E.S.A.
I also agree that IRL vanity items are a big industry (especially sports team jerseys). It would be ludicrous to think that IRL, vanity items were either marketed or sold to the LGBT exclusively. Here is why I think a game would be different. I expect to see subscribers (either hetero or not) buying and wearing vanity gear with their free cash shop points. I don’t expect to see Free Gamers PvPing in vanity costumes or buying anything. But I do expect they are playing IRL in their favorite team jersey.
Do I think that P2W means anything that affects the Killer gameplay style?
No. Virtually all items are sold on cs now. Some with power, some without, boosts, bag space, mounts, abilities… all can affect the killer, explorer, social, achiever gameplay – all are called out and debated in this forum.
I see what you are saying, buying an unlock of 100 bag slots could affect a Killer gamer equally as an OP Epic Legendary Weapon. But I think the Epic Legendary weapon would be called P2W, more often and more loudly than the bag slots. Are you saying that since all items are sold on the cash shop now, all items are P2W?.
LoL. If you read DeathWolf2U's post, right after this one. It is a reiteration of my points from my original post
Actually you stated that the people in your guild and your doctors office felt the vanity items were targeting the LGBT community, which IMO is silly.
And to tell the truth I've never even heard of it being discussed or an issue before today.
Why would you expect to see subs wearing the gear, but not free gamers? There are an awful lot of gamers that play free games and buy things (arguably more than subscribers?)
Impressions do matter in a court and in ethics, however they must satisfys the "what would the objective person do" test. Someone can feel targeted and offended all the want, if the objective person does not feel it is targeted then the offended person does not have a leg to stand on.
So no I don't think it's happening in the general games that are on here. Do I think that there are specific games targeting specific demographics, yes of course there is, and that isn't wrong, that is their target audience. In the massive AAA games that are discussed on most forums? No. Therefore anyone feeling targeted is IMO unjustified in that belief.
Do I think that all items are P2W? No. I think there are actually very few items in most games that are p2w. However I do think they are all equally lambasted on forums, especially this forum.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Because if I'm already paying money for the game, I should have access to the game. There shouldn't be shop exclusive items.
Its a GAME not a STORE. I should be able to play the GAME to get the GAME reward.
You only rephrased what you stated before - that there should be no shop with exclusive items.
That still does not explain why not.
No, I stated why. I've payed for access to the game with the monthly fee. I should have access to the ENTIRE game. The shop should be there for free to play people, it should give short cuts. It should not have exclusive items, because then that encourages the devs to put all the best items on the shop and double charging subscribers. It makes it so that the best items in the game are EXTRA money on top of everything else, with no merit way of earning them.
Because if I'm already paying money for the game, I should have access to the game. There shouldn't be shop exclusive items.
Its a GAME not a STORE. I should be able to play the GAME to get the GAME reward.
You only rephrased what you stated before - that there should be no shop with exclusive items.
That still does not explain why not.
No, I stated why. I've payed for access to the game with the monthly fee. I should have access to the ENTIRE game. The shop should be there for free to play people, it should give short cuts. It should not have exclusive items, because then that encourages the devs to put all the best items on the shop and double charging subscribers. It makes it so that the best items in the game are EXTRA money on top of everything else, with no merit way of earning them.
Best items and exclusive items may not, and usually aren't in most cs, the same items.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The secret world and guild wars franchise of payment method done right! They offer store item but all item don't give advantage aside from eastetic .etc
First. Items that do not sell do not remain unchanged. If there are items in a cash shop, and those items have stayed at the same price for along period of time, then those items are selling at a rate that generates an acceptable profit. If they weren't selling they would either be removed from the cash shop, the price would change or something about those items would be changed to make them sell. How can this possibly be known without having information on the sales a company makes? Because history tells us that companies that do not respond to their customers in a way that is palatable to their customers either find new customers or go out of business. It's also a basic economic or business whatsis. Rule. Very basic. Things will tend to sell a certain amount at a certain price. Raise or lower the price to get the optimum sales to generate the most profit, or more likely keep the price high to get the early adopters and have a sale to get everyone else.
Second. Developers are not targeting LGBT people with vanity items. Why? Because that would mean they think that vanity items are the only thing that LGBT people want. The inverse would be that nobody else wants that stuff. It's just such a stupid concept that I can't believe anyone even brought it up. Developers are not doing this. Apologies for using the word 'stupid', but really. It's just so stupid. It is so much more likely that developers just don't care about LGBT people and just don't take them into consideration for any of their marketing decisions than it is they having worked out some magic bullet that targets them specifically. Kudos to people* for responding in an intelligent and thoughtful manner to this. I can't do it. Sorry.
**
* Venge.
**
I will admit the idea of targeting gamers by their Bartle type is interesting, and something I've never thought of before. It would certainly be a way to target a specific demographic, and from there they could be divided into people who are willing and able to spend money early, and those people who wait for sales and deals.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Because if I'm already paying money for the game, I should have access to the game. There shouldn't be shop exclusive items.
Its a GAME not a STORE. I should be able to play the GAME to get the GAME reward.
You only rephrased what you stated before - that there should be no shop with exclusive items.
That still does not explain why not.
No, I stated why. I've payed for access to the game with the monthly fee. I should have access to the ENTIRE game. The shop should be there for free to play people, it should give short cuts. It should not have exclusive items, because then that encourages the devs to put all the best items on the shop and double charging subscribers. It makes it so that the best items in the game are EXTRA money on top of everything else, with no merit way of earning them.
Best items and exclusive items may not, and usually aren't in most cs, the same items.
If you're paying to play the game, no aspect of the game should be locked behind extra payment.
What about expansions then? And pre-order itemso or founder items. It monthly fees for that matter. They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Has anyone given the "whatever a game's playerbase will let them get away with" answer yet? Just checking. /duck
For the developer or publisher, this is certainly the answer. There are ideal items at the ideal price that will get them the most amount of money, and make the most amount of people happy to have spent the money. There seems to be a lot of variation on what those items are though. I think the people who said that the best things to charge for are the things that "I" can live without or do not want are the best items to charge for hit it pretty close. Something just as important, which I'm not sure has been mentioned is that people also want things that they can live with other people having, if they don't have them.
I don't think this is one of those things where there's really a specific, "these items are ok" kind of answer. Cosmetic items come up a lot, which makes sense. People see them as luxuries, and can live without them. Also, if other people have them, people are ok with that too. Not so much with more powerful items or items that make combat easier.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by greenreen How about cosmetics. Yeah, how 'bout those. People say they don't want them but people do tend to spend a good amount of time on character creation. We have more whirly gigs and zipzap bars in the character creation screen than ever before. You can change the tint of your armpit hair I envision next year as the next big thing.
Would the people who want cosmetics to be up for sale cling to that view if that meant that they had no character creation and what they got was a standard form.
There you go, can you handle it or will you be off to the cash shop post-haste.
This all needs to be put to the test. Some dev is going to read what you say and take away character look putting it behind payment, watch lol
Not exactly the same thing, but Minecraft does this with people who pay for the game and people who find a hacked client. Character skins are stored in a Mojang server, so only people who have purchased the client and authenticate through Mojang can have custom skins. Anyone who hacks their client gets to wear the "Steve" skin. It does carry some social pressure to purchase the game, and if the game has been purchased to change the default skin to something else.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by spizz Charge them for the air they are breathing or if they want to enter an area, crossing a bridge, petrol for vehicles, a game tax.....this would be the next pervers step for this kind of F2P genre hehe.
Wizard101's F2P model is like this. You get to create your little wizard and then start adventuring. You get the Commons area of Wizard City at no cost. You can also visit 4 of the next 5 areas (called streets) for free. Unfortunately, to leave Wizard City and go to another area in the spiral, you HAVE to complete all of the areas. Guess, what they do? They charge the players for the last area. I think there is also a dungeon or two that they charge for. So a player can not get very far in their game without paying.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for. And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal. It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game... They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for.
You seem to ignore that no new people are added to the team for that. It is existing team members that could have created it for the game itself. Seems a double standard there, no?
And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal.
It is still content the devs created in developing the product and sold to you separately. Again, double standard.
It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game...
F2P games run on unicorn love and puppy cuteness. It seems that when you bounce between "servers/badnwidth are trivial" and "monthly fees are needed to cover server/badnwidth costs" dependent on what best fits your argument.
They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So, how does any of that differ from F2P? Don't let cognitive dissonance get the better of you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
* Nothing is off limits. The only wrong answer is "Subscription".
Nothing like eliminating answers you just don't want to hear.
That's what I was thinking. Personally I think everyone should just man the fuck up and be willing to pay for a game if you want to play it. I don't see why everyone wants to be on uneven footing with the in-game purchases, other than the kids with no jobs who just want free games handed to them.
Welcome to the entitlement generation
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
You're not really going to get any type of resolution because the people calling everything p2w either hate f2p or want everything for free. So obviously the game couldn't/wouldn't survive if they had it their way. Everyone else will give reasonable answers because they are already comfortable with how f2p works or don't make posts like that to begin with, and not part of the "problem "
But to answer your question... Tera in my opinion is the ideal f2p model
There is no restricted content/class/race. You can play the game 100% free and do anything a paying player can do.
Everything they sell is able to be put up on the in game AH and you can buy it from a player for gold. Even character and bank slots or race change tokens can be bought this way.
They have a sub option that offers you benefits but all of them really just focus on time. More dailies, more gold, faster travel etc.
The cash shop sells your typical xp boost, gold boost rep boost but the main focus of it is cosmetic items and enchanting materials. The cosmetic items are all skins. The stats are all on items you have and there is a " cosmetics " tab that the skins go on. You have the ability to ether farm a weaker version of the enchanting mat in game ( lower chance of success, not end result ) or there is always lots of it for sale on the ah by other players.
They have rng boxes which I'm, not really a fan of but again nothing that comes out of them can't be put on the AH and everything I ever wanted from them I got from the AH instead.
The problem of course with any game focused on cosmetics is, the game has to be designed for it. Graphics matter, style matters and the types of players you attract to your game matter. Tera is obviously making enough money to talk about doing a part two, so it's working for them.
I will agree with Tera. I'm not a big fan of Eastern Style mmo's so didn't play it long, but I did like how the CS was setup.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for. And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal. It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game... They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So what?
Each one of those things are extra item, with extra charges beyond the base game that if you want you need to pay extra for.
And in the post above when referring to expansions you stated you were ok with things that were beyond the base game as long as dev work went into it.
So what you are really saying is you object to paying for extra things beyond the base game, unless it is things that you agree with (such as expansions and pre-order type items all of which are extra costs beyond the base game)
Yep definate double standard.
As lokto said, cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for. And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal. It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game... They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So what?
Each one of those things are extra item, with extra charges beyond the base game that if you want you need to pay extra for.
And in the post above when refering to expansions you stated you were ok with things that were beyond the base game as long as dev work went into it.
Spending 30 dollars on a boxed expansion filled with landmasses, dungeons, armor, weapons, mounts, new classes, new graphics, all things that cost substantial time and effort from the devs. Yes, paying for that makes sense.
A reskinned sword that took 10 minutes of dev work that you CANNOT GET unless you pay 20 dollars? Doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for. And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal. It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game... They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So what?
Each one of those things are extra item, with extra charges beyond the base game that if you want you need to pay extra for.
And in the post above when refering to expansions you stated you were ok with things that were beyond the base game as long as dev work went into it.
Spending 30 dollars on a boxed expansion filled with landmasses, dungeons, armor, weapons, mounts, new classes, new graphics, all things that cost substantial time and effort from the devs. Yes, paying for that makes sense.
A reskinned sword that took 10 minutes of dev work that you CANNOT GET unless you pay 20 dollars? Doesn't make sense.
Why not?
It still took 10 minutes of dev time that could have been put into something else, therefore is above the base game?
You can argue about the price all you want. But the same condition applies - work that was not part of the base game that devs are charging for - one is ok with you, the other is not.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Just don't Say I'm wrong I'm a crazy person I will go around all Projects that shifted to F2p in details )))
F2P is a ripoff it's a fact also Is a low quality service which I always hated. Also mmorpg cost crazy money so don't expect a F2P game to become you're long period fantasy world because it will be updated rarely because players don't invest in it money and Developers have no reason to continue updating all what localization company care is to take as much money as possible until game becomes a ghost grave with no players.
So in general F2P is a doomed model with no future content because content cost huge money but F2p wont bring so much income.
How you can compare 1milion subscribers to 1 project with 2milion players F2p and cash shop I know they say wow we switched to F2p ad we have huge success it's lie to get new players
Do you know many people who spend real money ? for example in GW 2 haw many people have you seen to buy stuff from Gem store on my server I so around 20 heavy models in last 2 months 20 models x 10 $ how this income can be compare to 1milion sub that pay 16 $ monthly it ridiculous. I transfer gold in gem and buy from cash shop I bought over 20 k gems with gold . So F2P wont bring much income to company that why in F2p content don't come or come after a few years also bad customer service. If you sit down and analyze F2P is a fail. Also GW is calling them self most updated game but go into patch notes they barely add new things most of witch are complete trash Remodel of old skin and sell in cash shop and This game is titled as most updated game ....
Yes World of Tank russian brings huge money even if game is F2p but game is designed so that you have to buy premium account which add quite pay to Win to that game still is a little balanced but when you get to last tier tanks few shots is more expensive than you get for the match and you're forced to buy premium account.
Only good model I see Is PAY TO PLAY this model would be successful only if Developers will listen and care about gamers more than their marketing team and big suits who know nothing about game especially about MMorpg which players are most spoiled of all.
You see if a single player game comes out its like " well was fun Ok..."
When mmorpg turn to be not satisfying it becomes a mass rage people QQ on forum and talk about how bad is that this how stupid is that or this mentality of this 2 is different and company who build this games don't think about customers satisfaction but how on papers invested money will multiply .
So basically what we need is a new mind set in all this huge companies who DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT QUALITY GAME will bring them a steady income they all have staff from different industry like movie were this scheme works but it won't work in an MMORPG a lot of gamers today are starving for an old school hard core MMo but we remain unsatisfied because market is focused on Casuals with movie makers mind set invest money = product =sell invest =product =sell this is a typical Hollywood scheme which is not focused on people entertainment as on doubling invested money. Still I have a lot to say but I'm tired and I lost hope to be honest I think MMORPG will be even worse year after year and we can't do nothing about it . From what I've seen only 5% 8 % of community really care about game they are waiting and are willing to do something to change them and if we will not play in trash they offer no big deal still majority of brainless people will give them their money and will even say THX taste good. This is same as to our real social life even if there is a small group that fight for our rights they can't do nothing because for 99 % community will be easier to sit on knees and get raped than to fight back.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What about expansions then? Expansions are labor intensive extra pieces developed onto the game that took time and money for art and design. Not reskinned swords with a particle effect that you already payed for. And pre-order itemso or founder items. I think everyone agrees those are mostly BS. But they're timed exclusives, to indicate how long you've been with the game. Not the same deal. It monthly fees for that matter. Are to pay for the server farms that run the game... They all involve extra costs on top of buying the game.
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So what?
Each one of those things are extra item, with extra charges beyond the base game that if you want you need to pay extra for.
And in the post above when refering to expansions you stated you were ok with things that were beyond the base game as long as dev work went into it.
Spending 30 dollars on a boxed expansion filled with landmasses, dungeons, armor, weapons, mounts, new classes, new graphics, all things that cost substantial time and effort from the devs. Yes, paying for that makes sense.
A reskinned sword that took 10 minutes of dev work that you CANNOT GET unless you pay 20 dollars? Doesn't make sense.
So it seems your problem seems to be with reskinned swords, as you just stated a landmass, new swords, mounts and the like are all fine to be sold in an item mall. Or is your problem that the free to play items don't come in a box? If so, wouldn't a digital download expansion be the same as an item mall item?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Actually you stated that the people in your guild and your doctors office felt the vanity items were targeting the LGBT community, which IMO is silly.
And to tell the truth I've never even heard of it being discussed or an issue before today.
Why would you expect to see subs wearing the gear, but not free gamers? There are an awful lot of gamers that play free games and buy things (arguably more than subscribers?)
Impressions do matter in a court and in ethics, however they must satisfys the "what would the objective person do" test. Someone can feel targeted and offended all the want, if the objective person does not feel it is targeted then the offended person does not have a leg to stand on.
So no I don't think it's happening in the general games that are on here. Do I think that there are specific games targeting specific demographics, yes of course there is, and that isn't wrong, that is their target audience. In the massive AAA games that are discussed on most forums? No. Therefore anyone feeling targeted is IMO unjustified in that belief.
Do I think that all items are P2W? No. I think there are actually very few items in most games that are p2w. However I do think they are all equally lambasted on forums, especially this forum.
No, I stated why. I've payed for access to the game with the monthly fee. I should have access to the ENTIRE game. The shop should be there for free to play people, it should give short cuts. It should not have exclusive items, because then that encourages the devs to put all the best items on the shop and double charging subscribers. It makes it so that the best items in the game are EXTRA money on top of everything else, with no merit way of earning them.
Best items and exclusive items may not, and usually aren't in most cs, the same items.
Couple of things.
First. Items that do not sell do not remain unchanged. If there are items in a cash shop, and those items have stayed at the same price for along period of time, then those items are selling at a rate that generates an acceptable profit. If they weren't selling they would either be removed from the cash shop, the price would change or something about those items would be changed to make them sell. How can this possibly be known without having information on the sales a company makes? Because history tells us that companies that do not respond to their customers in a way that is palatable to their customers either find new customers or go out of business. It's also a basic economic or business whatsis. Rule. Very basic. Things will tend to sell a certain amount at a certain price. Raise or lower the price to get the optimum sales to generate the most profit, or more likely keep the price high to get the early adopters and have a sale to get everyone else.
Second. Developers are not targeting LGBT people with vanity items. Why? Because that would mean they think that vanity items are the only thing that LGBT people want. The inverse would be that nobody else wants that stuff. It's just such a stupid concept that I can't believe anyone even brought it up. Developers are not doing this. Apologies for using the word 'stupid', but really. It's just so stupid. It is so much more likely that developers just don't care about LGBT people and just don't take them into consideration for any of their marketing decisions than it is they having worked out some magic bullet that targets them specifically. Kudos to people* for responding in an intelligent and thoughtful manner to this. I can't do it. Sorry.
**
* Venge.
**
I will admit the idea of targeting gamers by their Bartle type is interesting, and something I've never thought of before. It would certainly be a way to target a specific demographic, and from there they could be divided into people who are willing and able to spend money early, and those people who wait for sales and deals.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If you're paying to play the game, no aspect of the game should be locked behind extra payment.
Has anyone given the "whatever a game's playerbase will let them get away with" answer yet?
Just checking.
/duck
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I pretty much avoid any F2P that sells anything besides Cosmetics and things like Experience gain potions.
I'm alright with selling expansions too, that just makes sense.
I dislike games that sell items that give you a distinct advantage, if you sell hotbars or skillslots you're awful as well.
Selling things like bags and bankspace is ok, as long as there is a reasonable way to get it through gameplay as well
For the developer or publisher, this is certainly the answer. There are ideal items at the ideal price that will get them the most amount of money, and make the most amount of people happy to have spent the money. There seems to be a lot of variation on what those items are though. I think the people who said that the best things to charge for are the things that "I" can live without or do not want are the best items to charge for hit it pretty close. Something just as important, which I'm not sure has been mentioned is that people also want things that they can live with other people having, if they don't have them.
I don't think this is one of those things where there's really a specific, "these items are ok" kind of answer. Cosmetic items come up a lot, which makes sense. People see them as luxuries, and can live without them. Also, if other people have them, people are ok with that too. Not so much with more powerful items or items that make combat easier.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Not exactly the same thing, but Minecraft does this with people who pay for the game and people who find a hacked client. Character skins are stored in a Mojang server, so only people who have purchased the client and authenticate through Mojang can have custom skins. Anyone who hacks their client gets to wear the "Steve" skin. It does carry some social pressure to purchase the game, and if the game has been purchased to change the default skin to something else.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Charge them for the air they are breathing or if they want to enter an area, crossing a bridge, petrol for vehicles, a game tax.
....this would be the next pervers step for this kind of F2P genre hehe.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
And they're almost all tangible things that in a normal market WOULD get charged extra.
So, how does any of that differ from F2P? Don't let cognitive dissonance get the better of you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Welcome to the entitlement generation
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I will agree with Tera. I'm not a big fan of Eastern Style mmo's so didn't play it long, but I did like how the CS was setup.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
So what?
Each one of those things are extra item, with extra charges beyond the base game that if you want you need to pay extra for.
And in the post above when referring to expansions you stated you were ok with things that were beyond the base game as long as dev work went into it.
So what you are really saying is you object to paying for extra things beyond the base game, unless it is things that you agree with (such as expansions and pre-order type items all of which are extra costs beyond the base game)
Yep definate double standard.
As lokto said, cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
Spending 30 dollars on a boxed expansion filled with landmasses, dungeons, armor, weapons, mounts, new classes, new graphics, all things that cost substantial time and effort from the devs. Yes, paying for that makes sense.
A reskinned sword that took 10 minutes of dev work that you CANNOT GET unless you pay 20 dollars? Doesn't make sense.
Why not?
It still took 10 minutes of dev time that could have been put into something else, therefore is above the base game?
You can argue about the price all you want. But the same condition applies - work that was not part of the base game that devs are charging for - one is ok with you, the other is not.
Just don't Say I'm wrong I'm a crazy person I will go around all Projects that shifted to F2p in details )))
F2P is a ripoff it's a fact also Is a low quality service which I always hated. Also mmorpg cost crazy money so don't expect a F2P game to become you're long period fantasy world because it will be updated rarely because players don't invest in it money and Developers have no reason to continue updating all what localization company care is to take as much money as possible until game becomes a ghost grave with no players.
So in general F2P is a doomed model with no future content because content cost huge money but F2p wont bring so much income.
How you can compare 1milion subscribers to 1 project with 2milion players F2p and cash shop I know they say wow we switched to F2p ad we have huge success it's lie to get new players
Do you know many people who spend real money ? for example in GW 2 haw many people have you seen to buy stuff from Gem store on my server I so around 20 heavy models in last 2 months 20 models x 10 $ how this income can be compare to 1milion sub that pay 16 $ monthly it ridiculous. I transfer gold in gem and buy from cash shop I bought over 20 k gems with gold . So F2P wont bring much income to company that why in F2p content don't come or come after a few years also bad customer service. If you sit down and analyze F2P is a fail. Also GW is calling them self most updated game but go into patch notes they barely add new things most of witch are complete trash Remodel of old skin and sell in cash shop and This game is titled as most updated game ....
Yes World of Tank russian brings huge money even if game is F2p but game is designed so that you have to buy premium account which add quite pay to Win to that game still is a little balanced but when you get to last tier tanks few shots is more expensive than you get for the match and you're forced to buy premium account.
Only good model I see Is PAY TO PLAY this model would be successful only if Developers will listen and care about gamers more than their marketing team and big suits who know nothing about game especially about MMorpg which players are most spoiled of all.
You see if a single player game comes out its like " well was fun Ok..."
When mmorpg turn to be not satisfying it becomes a mass rage people QQ on forum and talk about how bad is that this how stupid is that or this mentality of this 2 is different and company who build this games don't think about customers satisfaction but how on papers invested money will multiply .
So basically what we need is a new mind set in all this huge companies who DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT QUALITY GAME will bring them a steady income they all have staff from different industry like movie were this scheme works but it won't work in an MMORPG a lot of gamers today are starving for an old school hard core MMo but we remain unsatisfied because market is focused on Casuals with movie makers mind set invest money = product =sell invest =product =sell this is a typical Hollywood scheme which is not focused on people entertainment as on doubling invested money. Still I have a lot to say but I'm tired and I lost hope to be honest I think MMORPG will be even worse year after year and we can't do nothing about it . From what I've seen only 5% 8 % of community really care about game they are waiting and are willing to do something to change them and if we will not play in trash they offer no big deal still majority of brainless people will give them their money and will even say THX taste good. This is same as to our real social life even if there is a small group that fight for our rights they can't do nothing because for 99 % community will be easier to sit on knees and get raped than to fight back.
So it seems your problem seems to be with reskinned swords, as you just stated a landmass, new swords, mounts and the like are all fine to be sold in an item mall. Or is your problem that the free to play items don't come in a box? If so, wouldn't a digital download expansion be the same as an item mall item?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Naw it’s not a fact.
They tell you what things cost before you buy them, leaving you informed before making the purchase, it’s the exact opposite of a rip-off.
The service quality is exactly the same - same customer service, same amount of updates.
F2p games have been around as long or longer that p2p games so the longevity is just as proven as p2p.
Very very very few mmo’s have ever sustained 1 million subs. The average is 50-500k.