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Sense of Wonder! Will we have it?

Binny45Binny45 St John''s, NFPosts: 478Member Uncommon

I have sincere hopes for the sense of wonder that I got when I first played EQ.  That sense of true adventure as I travelled each landscape and plundered each dungeon.  I didn't get that feeling in EQ2, and it was barely there in WoW.  I did get it in Vanguard, but sadly that game was released far too early.

No other game has really capture that sense of excitement and immersion.  The player run economy, the sense of community (you had to play nice! Being a moron had consequences!!!), the true sense of accomplishment.  All of these things seem to be missing from today's MMO's.

I still remember spending NINE MONTHS on my bard epic.  It wasn't 24/7 or anything, but more along the lines of getting things together and being able to move on a moments notice while doing other things.  It was hard!!! And there were many failures, but that just made each success all the better.

The live events kept me coming back.  You didn't know what the GM's were going to do.  Not only for holidays either!!! They'd sometimes just randomly spawn a dragon or werewolves in a certain location and boom! Small story arc with lots of fun and loot!  

Ahhh, those were the days.

I'm not saying that the game as a whole was perfect, but I do miss needing other people to be productive.  It is nice to play solo at times, but it seems we've gone too far the other direction in that we don't really need anyone to play anymore.

Please SOE, give me back my sense of adventure.  EQ was the only game to hold me for anything longer than a year straight (I played EQ for five years straight, with an additional two year stint later).

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Comments

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Yes.
  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon

    I've had a sense of wonder in every MMORPG that I've played since 1999. Maybe it comes from being old enough to remember when moving pixels were amazing and sounds other than beeps from the built-in speakers blew me away, but I start every game with a fresh slate and an appreciation for how far the industry has come. I don't carry baggage from game to game, nor do I spend my time railing against what a game isn't, rather than enjoying what it is--which the opposite it seems for so many of the bitter, entitlement-driven gamers out there.

     

    I expect EQ Next to be no different for me in providing that sense of discovery and wonder.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon

    So, no MMO has quite captured the "sense of excitement and immersion" or "wonderment" as the first MMO you ever played?


    Your nostalgia is setting you up for failure.

    Instead of comparing every new MMO to your first MMO experience you should probably rate them based on their own merits.


    But, thats if you dont want to become a bitter old "MMO vet" desperately clinging to the past.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    I am with you, to the sense of wonder amazement and challenge that went with EQ1.

     

    Unfortunately, SOE has gone a different direction and turned EQN into a GW2 clone.  A game that will satisfy the console crowd, yet leaving all the people that made this game possible holding their < censored > in their hands, wondering WTF happened.

     

    If you are looking for a true EQ1 experience, you will need to keep waiting for the actual EQ3.

     

    EQ1 held the candle for early WoW.  The candle was blown out (WoW WotLK), and all we get is pieces of what a really good, long lasting MMORPG should be.

     

    Quiz yourself! Take a SAT question:  :P

     

    [ EQN ] is to [ long lasting MMORPGS ] as a [ fart ]  is to the [ XXX ].

     

    A) Sky

    B) Universe

    C) Wind

    D) Weather

     

     

     

     

    Answer = (C) Wind    ..   Go figure right?

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    It will forever be increasingly more difficult for you to capture that same sense of wonder you once had when you played your first MMO, whatever that may have been.  In your first game, the sense of awe is derived simply from the shear scope of the game world; from the astonishing fact that those characters moving around on your screen are not computer characters at all, but are, in fact, actual players!  Some of the game's features may also provide that sense, like your first dungeon experience, or epic quest chain experience, or rare mob camping experience, or even just your first 10 hour group grind experience.  All of those things have become fond nostalgic memories, but even if you were to have those exact experiences in newer MMOs, of the same quality or better, they will never feel as awe inspiring as they once did.  

    In my experience, only when a game gives you a fresh new experience in some way or another does it have any chance at all of instilling that sense of wonder and awe we so crave.  I've only really had three (out of perhaps eight games that I gave a considerable chance) MMOs do this for me, and that's because each brought something considerably fresh and exciting to me.  Those were the only MMOs I stuck with for any notable amount of time.  

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    I think the sense of adventure will be there due first and foremost by the world. Not only has SoE said the world is very big but also seeded procedurally and expanded by hardware. Plus, the world will be three layers feel of playable space which will "shift" over time so what was underground in a certain spot may not be there in a month. That alone is enough to get me excited but there are all the AI systems and talks of Rallying Calls, where the players progress parts of the world that will stay. Sort of like building the patches instead of the buildings/events just popping up after you patch and log in.

    I am concerned however about how much group content there will be compared to solo. I'm hoping for roughly 50/50 as it's important to need others at times in an MMO, even if it's not for two/three hours.

    @Karteli

    You can keep repeating that EQN is a GW2 but you still haven't said what similarities are at this point other than the hotbar system. Even then we don't know enough about the other combat details. If you have something to share please do, maybe there is info out there I haven't seen.

    In regards to EQNs longevity. If SoE is able to accomplish what they are saying I can see it having great longevity. Just finding and gearing up the 40 classes would be enough to stay busy a while. That's just a guess however since we need more info. Those wishing for EQ3 could be very happy with EQN.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon

    Sense of Wonder! Will we have it?

    Sure but only if you allow it.

    I think many people approach these games as "I want this, this and this and x, y and z are been 'there done tha't, tired, not trying, not new so make me happy!"

    I've been playing lord of the rings online for years (since one of the earlier closed betas) and I have a HUGE litany of complaints but that doesn't stop me from putting those aside and enjoying myself for what it is. Maybe even investing a bit of myself in the experience.

    Quite frankly it's a state of mind.

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,558Member Uncommon

    Yes - as I watched the reveal stream I wondered what the hell happened and what the stuff they showed had anything to do with EQ period.

    So at least for me yes, I am still wondering what all of those "remember EQ1 videos" prior to reveal had any point after I saw "jolina" and "keeshar" prance around like bafoons.

     

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Can you be a billionaire on his yacht surrounded by beautiful women and be crying in the middle of the room?
  • steelheartxsteelheartx Biloxi, MSPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    I really hope so.  Been waiting for another game to capture my imagination!

    Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  • ChaserzChaserz South Jordan, UTPosts: 83Member Uncommon

    I am the MMO relic of the past that also longs for that wondrous EQ1 experience.  But I have bad news for you:  The EQ1 magic you and I experienced had more to do with the timing of that first step into the MMO world of Norrath than anything else.   When we mostly unknowingly plucked that box off the retail shelf back then most of us had no idea of the splendor that was ahead, some 13 years ago.  You, I, and most everyone else that bought that box thought we had found a new Eden to explore that many other gamers at the time knew nothing about.  We felt we were all the lucky ones like an online rapture with our dialup modems.  :)

    As another poster noted if you keep looking for that experience you'll be left wanting.  But there is a lot of innovation in the MMO industry today.  I recently played in a major MMO closed beta and was very impressed with it.  So for me I've had to adjust my glasses to appreciating other measures of these much newer MMOs, but I have had to come to terms that the "EQ1 experience" will never be able to be duplicated.  It was timing that came together that made it happen.  Was it fun then!    

    I've made some assumptions on when you first started playing EQ1.  But for most the players that feel as you do they started EQ1 at launch or shortly afterwards.  

     

     

        

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,659Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    I am with you, to the sense of wonder amazement and challenge that went with EQ1.

    Unfortunately, SOE has gone a different direction and turned EQN into a GW2 clone.  A game that will satisfy the console crowd, yet leaving all the people that made this game possible holding their < censored > in their hands, wondering WTF happened.

    If you are looking for a true EQ1 experience, you will need to keep waiting for the actual EQ3.

    No one is going to make EQ3 or anything that will fit into your perfect vision of what an mmo should be. It is fact. Either accept it or move on, stop going on and on about how SOE broke your heart.

    I'm not "the console crowd" and am looking forward to EQN and even LM the more they reveal about it. While I loved EQ, I think EQN/LM will open up a lot more adventures and allow freedom to play how we want more then even EQ did. If you can't see past the kitty, that is your issue. Many of us don't get caught up so easily.

    To call EQN a GW2 clone based on the tiny bit of info we have is unintelligent. Everything they've shown seems to point to it being as far from a GW2 clone as possible. They've even openly said that they don't want to be like or repeat the mistakes of GW2. While I lost interest quickly, I don't believe GW2 is a bad game, people just expect a product to do B when it was designed for A. Having action combat and a limited tool bar shouldn't define what a game is. Wildstar has the exact same design, yet I don't see people comparing it to GW2. Besides the combat (on a very basic level) I don't get the whole clone deal.

    So far, all signs point to yes that EQN will do what the OP is asking, if you allow it to. Games are what we make of them. 

    For you and everyone else that can't stop living in the past, if EQ was so good, what happened? Why did so many leave the perfect game? Why did SOE change the overall experience to compete and then actually have an increase in users?

    EQ wasn't a failure by any means, but wanting SOE to basically clone EQ, slap some new paint and update it a bit seems like a poor idea if the original product bled customers when faced with competition.

    If Coke was on top of a very short list and Pepsi and a bunch of competitors came out and started taking all the customers, would it be smarter to try and make a new flavor or design a new can? From what I read from all the die-hard "EQ or nothing" people, they would prefer the new can. That might work for some, but the majority, it is all about the taste. They will all remember their first Coke, but that doesn't stop them from preferring Pepsi.

    I have no doubt that many EQN haters will change their tune when more is revealed. They have barely scratched the surface (thanks Conan). EQ was a great game for its time (still is for many), but it can't compete in today's market with today's gamers. For better or worse, that's the way it is. That doesn't instantly make EQN a piece of trash. Will it be a clone of EQ? Nope, but it sure can try to bring back a sense of wonder and adventure that has been missing for a long time.

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,659Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Yes - as I watched the reveal stream I wondered what the hell happened and what the stuff they showed had anything to do with EQ period.

    So at least for me yes, I am still wondering what all of those "remember EQ1 videos" prior to reveal had any point after I saw "jolina" and "keeshar" prance around like bafoons.

    For me, the videos were about the experiences people have had in EQ and less about the game itself. You can have those experiences in any game, but EQ did it especially well. Since most have long since moved on, it was a way to reconnect those forgotten memories and emotions and try to bridge them into EQN. They want players to feel the same way they did in EQ. Adventure, danger, community, etc seem to be their unwritten themes and are what many want. You might not like "jolina" and "keeshar" just as I didn't like High Elves, doesn't mean either game won't do what they set out to do. 

  • BoardwalkerBoardwalker Austin, TXPosts: 384Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Can you be a billionaire on his yacht surrounded by beautiful women and be crying in the middle of the room?

     

    Sure, if you yourself are a beautiful woman, are strictly heterosexual, and perhaps are dealing with health problems, a family tragedy, or relationship issues.

    They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
    Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
    Play EVE for free for 21 days

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Can you be a billionaire on his yacht surrounded by beautiful women and be crying in the middle of the room?

     

    Sure, if you yourself are a beautiful woman, are strictly heterosexual, and perhaps are dealing with health problems, a family tragedy, or relationship issues.

    I'm just pointing out that one's experience to certain stimuli is equally dependent on the frame of mind of the observer.

  • MacroPlanetMacroPlanet Posts: 1,068Member Uncommon

    It would be nice to have a game that bring the same sense of adventure that few games have given me in the past.  So far, out of all the MMO's I've played, only UO and WoW have given me that feeling.

     

    I don't know much about Everquest Next, nor do I. 

     

    However, when I do check out some videos and screenshots of FF:ARR, for some reason I get that urge that I got when I used to look at the videos and screenshots back when WoW was new. 

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MacroPlanet

    It would be nice to have a game that bring the same sense of adventure that few games have given me in the past.  So far, out of all the MMO's I've played, only UO and WoW have given me that feeling.

     

    I don't know much about Everquest Next, nor do I. 

     

    However, when I do check out some videos and screenshots of FF:ARR, for some reason I get that urge that I got when I used to look at the videos and screenshots back when WoW was new. 

     

    Here's some info on Landmark which is coming out beforehand, kind of the building set to EQN:

     

    Channel:

    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE1KffI-n1RVN4iOTNEMMaA

     

    What is EQN Landmark?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjvYIV4B5jg&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLbCPvdjOe6W01lfDoX4cL0Lxhhgd7H14Y

     

    30 mins of gameplay from first livestream:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6irZrXGuqY

     

    Enjoy image

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Unfortunately, SOE has gone a different direction and turned EQN into a GW2 clone.  A game that will satisfy the console crowd.

    If you are looking for a true EQ1 experience, you will need to keep waiting for the actual EQ3.

     

    That is a low blow. That is hitting below the belt calling EQN a GW2 clone. Well if SOE took a different direction in turning EQN into a clone, what route do you think EQ3 would eventually take? It might be another decade (or close to it) before we see another EverQuest MMO. Trends of the MMO genre becoming more casualized and/or consolized are a trend that has been going on for some time already. For EQ3 to not follow this trend, the top players at SOE (Execs etc.) would have to have to completely change their state of mind. What are the chances of SOE doing that… I mean realistically?

    image

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Posts: 1,606Member Uncommon

    I doubt if you could ever really recapture the feeling you got when you played EQ for the first time back when it was new.  Others have already pointed out some of the reasons.  Back then, just being in an online world with thousands of other players was amazing in itself.  I can still remember how cool that seemed back in 1999.  I mean, not even considering the game design yet but just the fact that I was in a shared world with all those other people.  That alone was like the greatest thing ever to me back then.

    Another thing that made it so much better back then was that most of us were ignorant about stuff.  In general we just didn't know all the ins and outs of MMOs.  We didn't really understand the limitations yet and so on.  It was all kind of a mystery to us and that made it so much better.  It felt more like a world simply because our lack of understanding of how limited it all was allowed us to imagine that it was more like a world than it really was.

    On the other hand some things about EQ I feel were intrinsically better than the standard design for MMOs now.  Primarily the fact that it was not such a "on rails" experience.  You were left to just wander around and find things for yourself which I miss.  Also the grouping in EQ.   I have never played another game that had group play as good as EQ.

    Also, of course, as that early wonderment faded I began to see things I really disliked about EQ as well.  The insanity of the endgame in EQ was the number one gripe I had later on.  Also the really terrible class imbalances.  And to be honest the time sinks probably were a little much.

    To sum up:  that sense of wonder did come largely from the newness of it all but there were some things which truly were better about EQ than later games.  There were also serious flaws with the game.

    Anyway, you'll probably never feel that way again unless some game comes along that changes things enough that it seems new again and not just like a rehash of the same old thing.

  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon

    There will be no sense of wonder because there will be no sense of danger. If there were danger little Timmy would throw tantrums and we can't have that. Not when the entire game is being built for little Timmy.

    A game like EQ1 and AC1 had a sense of wonder because you had to truly be careful. This made the world seem alive. In AC1 you could explore for a long time the word was so massive and seemless but during that exploration you were going to encounter a lot of danger. You may even lose all of your stuff if you could not remember where your body was if you died. This sense of danger made the game exciting. Of course, that is also something we will never see again in MMORPGs. Never forget the little Timmy effect on all new MMO's. That is who they are targeting, not veteran gamers.

     

     

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar

    There will be no sense of wonder because there will be no sense of danger. If there were danger little Timmy would throw tantrums and we can't have that. Not when the entire game is being built for little Timmy.

    A game like EQ1 and AC1 had a sense of wonder because you had to truly be careful. This made the world seem alive. In AC1 you could explore for a long time the word was so massive and seemless but during that exploration you were going to encounter a lot of danger. You may even lose all of your stuff if you could not remember where your body was if you died. This sense of danger made the game exciting. Of course, that is also something we will never see again in MMORPGs. Never forget the little Timmy effect on all new MMO's. That is who they are targeting, not veteran gamers.

     

    SoE hasn't revealed any information regarding how hard content will be, they've only stated that they can turn up how mobs react to situations and therefore make them "harder" since each mob will have a "class" with certain abilities.

     

    I agree that a sense of danger makes the experience better but I don't agree with the cause for making it easier.  Has there been a game that's fun but because it was too hard people refused to play it? It's true that WoW made the experience easier but at first it was different, was it not? Harder? Who knows if making the game easier would have changed the rise to power WoW has seen but I know that they have over the years "dumbed it down" and look what's happened.  They have 1/2 the subs they did at their peak.

     

    You can make a game hard, where you don't want to die, and people will still play it if it's fun IMO.  Hopefully SoE realizes this and I think they do.  Georgeson gave a nod to someone on Reddit who asked about EQN classes and combat being MOBA-like.  I know that will make some people cringe but if you've played LoL you know that it's not easy, especially at first, but every action counts even if there are fewer abilities.  I hope EQN is like this if only to add some difficulty.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,462Member Uncommon

    You got it in EQ but not eq2?Eq2 is the same game but with better graphics..EQ2 is full of large cities and wondrous areas,it is a good game but suffers from the hand holding and linear questing that i don't like.

    However beyond the top tier games i will agree MOST start you out in the open in some waste land or just in the middle of no where.

    Will there be some good map making in EQ Next,i would think so,however certain indications could leave some doubt.Example PS2 was just horrible for assets and map making ,SOE shut down with no effort MTGT and now will release Landmark which is really NEXT but unfinished.Point is SOE most certainly has become super lazy and more pushy for asking for money,if this holds true then expect LESS effort in NEXT than what we used to see in a game such as EQ2.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Wizardry

    I'm not sure what you mean by PS2 having bad maps, I thought they were rather good. I can see how you would think Landmark is an unfinished EQN if you have no interest in building but the idea that SoE wanted to ice players the ability to build like they do in game speaks for itself. They had to spend a lot more time and money to make that happen. You can have personal opinions for SoE all you want but from where I'm standing EQN is really important to then and they seen passionate about it. Both are valid opinions I guess.

    Landmark will indeed cut dev time once EQN is up and running. Build contests will probably pull in quite a few templates for SoE to use later and thus allow that dev time towards other activites. Since EQN and Landmark will be F2P that means overall quality will go up, win/win.
  • GediasGedias Miami, FLPosts: 45Member Common
    Originally posted by Binny45

    I have sincere hopes for the sense of wonder that I got when I first played EQ.  That sense of true adventure as I travelled each landscape and plundered each dungeon.  I didn't get that feeling in EQ2, and it was barely there in WoW.  I did get it in Vanguard, but sadly that game was released far too early.

    It's funny that you dismiss WOW because for me WOW, being the first MMO I ever played, was the most amazing and wondrous gaming experience I have ever had.  I played it non-stop for four years and every MMO I have played since pales in comparison - especially earlier MMOs like EQ or DAOC that seem so clunky and ugly.

     

    So echoing what everyone else has said previously, yes your first MMO love is the best and sets the bar from which you compare all other MMOs.   And what made the experience so wondrous to us was being online and interacting with real players instead of NPCs, or basically what separates MMORPGs from RPGs.  I think for most of us to experience that sense of wonder again we are going to have to play a game that is as much of an evolutionary jump as MMOs were from RPG's - but in that case it probably won't be an MMO, maybe virtual reality :)

     

  • nightscarnightscar Nowhere, NYPosts: 31Member


    So echoing what everyone else has said previously, yes your first MMO love is the best and sets the bar from which you compare all other MMOs.   And what made the experience so wondrous to us was being online and interacting with real players instead of NPCs, or basically what separates MMORPGs from RPGs.  I think for most of us to experience that sense of wonder again we are going to have to play a game that is as much of an evolutionary jump as MMOs were from RPG's - but in that case it probably won't be an MMO, maybe virtual reality :)

    Queue the Oculus Rift!
    I agree with most in the thead, as I to have been looking for that sense of wonder and adventure in an MMo since my wow days. I have played many many many MMo's and the only other MMo that has kept my attemtion to max lv was FF:Arr, leave it to the SE boys to make a good story ;) But I do look forward to EQN, I never played EQ1 or EQ2 so it will be a new world and Xp for me, plus I really like the concept of layers in there worlds, gives it some depths. But like others have stated you never forget your 1st MMo xp, and it will probably never be replaced, until something comes along that is very evolutionary. Equil to the 1st time we saw FF7, or N64 Mario. I belive somthing will come along that will have a big impact like that. But by them we will all probably be to old to enjoy it :P

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