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There needs to be random encounters, that arent predictable. I said it before in another post. How EQ Next has random spawns that travel to random locations (supposedly) and make random camps or groups or whatever. Why didnt ESO do that? That in conjunction with the huge maps the game has, especially Skyrim, that would introduce a whole new aspect. Where you actually went out of your way exploring. Not just for quests or skyshards or whatever theyre called. But to find random encounters. Crafting nodes would also feed into this.
I also said if they had the AI capability that the longer these random spawns went unmolested the more 'powerful' or entrenched they became. How about running along an area you had seen a dozen times and suddenly see a bandit town there? Simply because there had been a random spawn group show up and after a couple weeks they had built a town or at least a skirmish camp of some sort. I dont think it would be too difficult, there are already reset timers in games so every time the server 'resets' for the day they simply upgrade these random mobs in the world.
PvP is obvious 'player made' end game but PvP has been destroyed by the mind set of instanced dual type matches where you run around capping flags or running flags or holding a small area. How about just getting kills? Why does PvP need PvE objectives? Sure if they want to give people keeps fine, but they should be completely 'destroyable'. Not just a door or a segment but the whole thing. Obviously detroying a door or a segment gives the opposing side access, but those can generally be rebuilt. generally by the side the caps it or automatically once it is capped. But I say no capturing. Just destroy it and move on. RANDOM, thats the key. It gets rid of boredom and predictability.
Crafting is another decent end game product that isnt necessarily developed. As long as it is in depth and not watered down.
Player housing is the obvious one. Look to RIFT for a good example. Although I woud rather see a cross between that and Lotro. With instanced neighborhoods and lots a group would share the space in and you could enter the instance then see everything people built. Would also like to see gardening, farming, livestock breeding/crossbreeding, etc. in there as well. All intertwined with specialty crafting. Generic crafting could be restricted to cities and towns as I know it is a common thought that personal crafting kills city populations. But having some RP crafting for supplies/ingredients wouldnt take that much away. Along that line add seasons and day night cycles. Have them mimic real world. More than likely Northern hemisphere. So growing grains and plants and vegetables would be restricted to the actual seasons. Winter Barley in May...too bad. Summer Squash in November..not hardly. What some people might call 'little things'. What I call details. Could even have freezing ponds and lakes and that would add a whole new aspect of 'stuff'. Ice fishing. Different mobs also. Or at least a larger pathing and spawning area for certain mobs.
Seriously if this game wants to charge the money it is looking to charge with a sub and a box price it needs to put things in that have not been seen before but have been done in a limited capacity in other games.
This theme park end game trash that has been cultivated and killed every MMO since WOW basically isnt the answer. Even if you make it "better' it is still the same thing. You have to offer different and better. Stuff MMO players can get behind, and stuff the RP guys can get behind.
Originally posted by rodarin Why didnt ESO do that?
Why doesn't every MMO get developed exactly the same way and have all the same features? I thought we didn't like it when they do too much of that.
Sounds like you like some of the things you've heard about EQN... and I'm with you with the spawns and migrations of mobs: seems like a cool idea to me too.
OTOH, I'm glad ESO is doing many things differently from EQN - there's also lots not to like in EQN... and I don't mean just Tony the Tiger.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus 2/3th of the open PvE world comes available at max level All Dungeons have a sepperate version with different content that become available at max level.. there are 450 adventure zones, which will work as story based raid zones that are available at max level. And then there is the PvP part in Curodill So obviously the endgame consists of 2 parts. However we dont know yet how much character and gear progression there is at max level, not for PvE and PVP...
Last I heard Adventure zones had been canned for release. And were a "possible" future addition.
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Eve and DAoC are some of the most popular MMOs ever, and they're PvP based.
EvE has surpassed DAOC (250k peak) numbers by 100+k, and maintained them. DAOC leveled off to about 120k average in its heyday.
Also, DAOC was popular when there were only like a half a dozen MMOs out.
Its easy to be #4 when there are only 6 games.
Only 6 MMOs? Are you out of your mind? There were dozens and dozens of MMOs out at the time, all clamoring for a very tiny audience. For a while DAoC was second only to EQ in subs.
I'd even argue that the market was more competetive then.
In any case the point stands, having PvP as your end game, with PvE supporting it, or as something to do as a break from PvP, is a golden formula. There's a million WoW clones for doing DKP style EQ raiding, people can go play those if they want that.
There may have been a few smaller ones. Im talking the AAA category.
In 2001 we had- UO, EQ1, AC, AO, DAOC and Runescape as the top AAA titles.
EQ was leader with UO, AC and DAOC vying for 2nd, 3rd and 4th. AO and RS came in last.
DAOC was #2 for awhile but it ended up with less subs than UO and AC
Golden Formula BWAAHAHAHAHAHAH!
RS actually, technically, had way more than any of those MMOs. And we aren't talking DAoC on launch day. By the time DAoC hit 250k subs there was Eve, CoH, The Sims Online, Earth and Beyond, Horizons, AC2, Lineage 1 and 2, FF11, SWG, Shadowbane, Meridian 59, and a slew of smaller titles.Almost all these MMOs were in the same budget area. DAoC was made with a 1 million dollar budget. There are, by comparison, far fewer AAA MMOs competing these days.
And DAoC didn't lose population until, surprise, it made PvE more important than PvP.
Wait, so a game has to be at the top to have a sound business plan? DAOC remained relevant for years that's what mattered. EVE continues to be relevant. That's the point the guy is making, that little Bwahha at the end was facepalm worthy considering how off base your reply is to what was actually said to begin with.
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Despite anything else, if the game has fun and meaningful pvp(like they are advertising), I and many others will be playing for a long time
Originally posted by CrazKanuk Here's the perfect answer for what ESO will be trying to accomplish with their end game content. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH-i4YertxA
that as awesome, especially when the ad i watched was TESO lol
Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by artemisentr4 Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Incomparable How is player housing and end game connected?
There is no Player Housing in ESO
Unless you count the player owned keeps and such in Cyrodiil.
Players dont "own" those.
It will be the same as it was in DAOC.
Your Factions zerg will take a Keep and try to hold it until another Factions zerg takes it from you.
um, you could own homes in daoc.
I had a rather large guild hall home as a matter of fact, just for me.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by Swids2010 At the moment the only endgame they have talked about is there version of GW2 wvw
Uh... you mean, Dark Age of Camelot's RvR? Which is what GW2 tried and failed to reproduce?
i love how this latest generation thinks GW2 , WoW, invented so much, when in reality, they just like blizzard , ripped off every good idea and tried to make it their own.
Originally posted by killahh Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by artemisentr4 Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Incomparable How is player housing and end game connected?
I was refering to Keeps in the Frontier/PvP area
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Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Eve and DAoC are some of the most popular MMOs ever, and they're PvP based.
No, a game doesnt have to be on top to be relevant. I admit, DAOC did quite well for the time. It had a hook that no other game had.
Its was 1 of the Big 4
But that hook only got it so far. Why didnt it do better? Zenimax is modeling an ES MMO after another MMO that only did ok?
THAT, I dont think is a sound business plan, but hey , its not my company
I also think EvE is very relevant, though not my taste. Its the only Indie Developed game that is now considered an AAA game.
The "bwahaa" was for the "Golden Formula" comment.
As there is no such thing and to even suggest there is one is laughable
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Eve and DAoC are some of the most popular MMOs ever, and they're PvP based.
But that hook only got it so far. Why didnt it do better?
Because the ToA and Catacombs expansions placed the emphasis on PvE, and broke PvP< which was its main hook?
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Eve and DAoC are some of the most popular MMOs ever, and they're PvP based.
And who was the Executive Producer of those 2 Expansions?
And who is the President of ZOS and Executive Producer of ESO?
And what is the main hook of ESO (besides the ES IP)?
Originally posted by heimer73 There seems to be dungeons(16 last I heard) but I am guessing they want PvP to be the main endgame entertainment or? Thank you for clearing it up for me .... I really cant seem to find out
While they will have both offerings - and again, explaining pvp to this crowd is nigh impossible if they never played Dark Age of Camelot - poor folks are all so used to crappfest pvp spoon fed us for years...
Anyway, they will have both - and you will get to vary your interests between both. But remember that Dark Age of Camelot has been around since 2001 - it has one server with 3-5k players online at any given time (like one active WoW server)...but there are people in large majority that have been in the PvP aspect of Dark Age (i.e., taking castles, defending the relics of the realm...and other concepts most don't understand)...for 12 years non-stop.
It's that much fun when done correctly. Whether or not TESO implements RvR at the level of Dark Age is to be seen. After seeing certain aspects (UGGHH NDA!!!) of the game, while I am looking forward to playing, I can see where many folks might not give it fice seconds.
Time will tell. Point is, they have a bit to reconsider so that people play long enough to even get to end game.
Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Why didnt ESO do that?
ESO isnt doing ANYTHING different (from any other game out there). Thats the problem with it.
Also without collision detection PvP sucks. So if they dont implement that then what good is PvP going to be? Same as every other lame PvP game out there where you do PvE stuff and maybe once in awhile actually kill another player. But mostly by accident.
Originally posted by Incomparable Originally posted by bcbully Originally posted by Incomparable I want to know about thier end game as well. For example what are the benefits for alting. What are the activities at end game?
*shady marketing department guy takes notes*
Tomorrows press release
What will you do at endgame!? I glad you asked! Once you reach level cap, we made it real easy to "reinvent" your play style and revisit content you missed! Our "reinvention system".....
Re invent your play style... as in playing another class?
You can get most of the skills in game on one character.
Originally posted by rodarinth it. Also without collision detection PvP sucks. So if they dont implement that then what good is PvP going to be? Same as every other lame PvP game out there where you do PvE stuff and maybe once in awhile actually kill another player. But mostly by accident.
how does colliision detection mitigate or eliminate doing pve stuff and maybe once in a while actually lilling another player by accident."
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa EQ/WoW style tierred gear based scripted raiding needs to die a horrible death.
I like it and I want more of it.
bring forth the biggest baddest, most unkillable dragons you got. I shall stand before them (briefly) and draw their attacks hile my comrades...die to aoe ... but also try to deliver the final blow.
Originally posted by Robokapp Originally posted by Tibernicuspa EQ/WoW style tierred gear based scripted raiding needs to die a horrible death.
There's already dozens of games worth of it you can try.
The thing you described is not inherent in WoW style raids. You had that same scenario in DAOC raids, except they weren't instanced, and they didn't require "gear checks" before you went into them.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by rodarinth it. Also without collision detection PvP sucks. So if they dont implement that then what good is PvP going to be? Same as every other lame PvP game out there where you do PvE stuff and maybe once in awhile actually kill another player. But mostly by accident.
Mutually exclusive. PvP NEEDS collision detection to be good. This game doesnt have it. Fail
This game also has PvE stuff like capturing keeps and other areas. Rather than just having them be targets to be destroyed and be done with them. Another failure.
Two separate issues two negatives.
That doesnt even get into how much melee is so much more powerful than casting in this game (always has been in ES games though)
Without target locking it might have been diminished but this game also has target locking and you dont even have to be facing a target to hit it with melee. A HUGE failure.(not facing target to hit it) Not sure if that is against the NDA or not, but I think it has been noted before.
There are other issues as well but those are the most obvious and why most people wont do it. The casual PvP crowd will get tired of it as it becomes more and more clear the imbalances and how you cant have a generic spec that will be viable in both PvP and PvE. The 'hardcore' PvP crowd will immediately see the issues with it, and will do what they do.
Originally posted by rodarin Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Why didnt ESO do that?
No. The problem is with your perception (or your posing to try yo make a point--not sure which.) Just to name a couple:
- The skill development system is different from other MMOs
- the 3-sided faction-locked RvR is different from other MMOs
If you're not seeing the differences between this and any other AAA MMO in development , like EQN or Wildstar, you're just not looking... or pretending not to look so you can make a post bashing the game for lack of originality also on top of whatever other little beefs you have with the game.
Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Why didnt ESO do that?
Ya there is no game in development I know of that has the package ESO has. I just wish the RvR did not has a time duration on who you faced off on. Loved in DAoC getting to know your enemy. None the less its better then GW2 3 sided war where it changes even faster.
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Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by rodarin Why didnt ESO do that?
Yeah, I'm with you on the time duration thing. Not a fan or that at all. They have dropped some hints here and there that the duration is not yet set in stone and permanent is still a consideration in the mix... guess what I'm lobbying hard for?
the weapons skills I can concede on a small scale but once theyre filled that will not be a selling point of the game. I doubt very highly it is as in depth as it is being made out to be, and certainly nothing like Skyrim offered. Which was a much better system. So IMO what ESO gives is a hybrid of GW2 and ES. It is a marriage of both.
3 factions realm PvP has been around forever. Just because they want to call it realm versus realm and lock it doesnt change that. Even if they make it impossible for an account to roll toons from multiple realms (which they wont do) it still isnt anything new. Might be a nice step but it still doesnt take away from the glaring problems PvP has. Why do you think that video was so shrt and had so many cut scenes as was spliced together?
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Originally posted by Robokapp Originally posted by Tibernicuspa EQ/WoW style tierred gear based scripted raiding needs to die a horrible death.
that does sound better...well played, sir.