Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

From Cracked: Gaming Industry Headed For A CRASH!

2

Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami   Originally posted by DMKano Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants.   
      There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games. Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers. Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products. You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...
     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     




    Maybe the big change will simply be more game developers going to business school.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member

    Which gaming industry?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasmagoria_(video_game)

    This was a big thing once, games were going to be as costly as movies to produce. 7th Hour was IT! Gone the days of Elite being made by a single guy (Braben).

    Sierra is gone. Minecraft is a hit. Created by a single guy.

    Some of the most talked about games are made by tiny teams and released as indie titles not just on PC but increasingly on the consoles.

    Everything old is new again. There ALWAYS been big budget games and there always been games that didn't break even regardless of budget. 

    A segment of the market might crash but remember, regardless of how high the budget was for GTA V, it turned a profit on the first day of sales. And minecraft too makes a profit. Where is the crash?

    While SWTOR failed, Eve Online continued to generate an income for its team as it had done for years. And it not like either Bioware or EA are hurting for cash because of SWTOR's failure. 

    Sure, some companies will go broke. So? Others will rise from the ashes. 

    People have been posting articles like the parents for as long as I have been gaming which is at a time when text games were still viable. I seen companies rise and fall. It means nothing. 

    Gaming is here to stay and it will be supplied by companies big and small as long as someone thinks there is money to be made. And someone always thinks there is money to be made anywhere.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    EVE Online back in the day was a measly few million or so (5m€). With Inflation probably still less than 15m$ in today's money (~ 6.2m€).

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Maybe the big change will simply be more game developers going to business school.
     

    call me jaded but i used to work as a programmer in the healthcare industry and i saw similar trend

    CEOs hired with no healthcare background but they knew about financing!

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Most of the venture capital is going away from MMO's due to their terrible performance (themeparks). Mobile maybe is where the cash is heading (doubt that's a good move either!!).
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DMKano

    No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick. 

    You do not understand what COE role in company is.

    CEO is who leads. Person making the decisions and strategy for the company.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Only one small problem with that idea: gamers will expect them to produce a game bigger and better than GTA V with that 15 million...

    If you are GTA franchise you are expected to make 100s of millions within the first week, so the budget is going to be HUGE.

    However 99% of the other games do not fall in that category.

    Smaller indie-type projects with strong gameplay is the way to go. 

    You can't make a AAA MMORPG for less than 80million today, it's not worth the risk IMO.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Yeah, its totally not like they made a big budget MMo recently that completely flopped and went F2P... oh wait... SWTOR.

     

    Money being thrown at a game doesn't make a good game. Hell, if you look at many of the 'big hit' or critically aclaimed games, they were typically projects that were either done by small studios or just small teams. Portal is so well praised yet it was created more as a 'side project' by valve, never being expected to be a break out hit it was, garnishing so much attention and praise despite not having that big budget and being a rather short game as it was. Minecraft was started as a very small scale project by one person that ended up growing greatly and becoming such a successful game. 

     

    Throwing money won't  make you a good game. Sure, some of those big games end up making lots of profits, but often spending so much to do so and leaving such a tiny impact in the industry. 10 years from now, do you think you will be able to recall that generic FPS shooter and what title it is, or will it just blend in with one another?

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants. 
     

     

    There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games.

    Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers.

    Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products.

    You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...

     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     

    I can rebut all that you said with just 2 words-

    Brad McQuaid

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

     

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     


     

    You do not understand what COE role in company is.

    CEO is who leads. Person making the decisions and strategy for the company.

     

    Then what does the board of directors do, play with their thumbs?

    CEO can't do any major decisions or strategy without the boards approval, so who is really in control?

     

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants. 
     

     

    There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games.

    Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers.

    Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products.

    You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...

     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     

    I can rebut all that you said with just 2 words-

    Brad McQuaid

    And you would be correct - however not ever CEO with game dev experience is Brad McQuaid.

    Just like not ever CEO without game experience is clueless, there are always exceptions.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Yeah, its totally not like they made a big budget MMo recently that completely flopped and went F2P... oh wait... SWTOR.

     

    Money being thrown at a game doesn't make a good game. Hell, if you look at many of the 'big hit' or critically aclaimed games, they were typically projects that were either done by small studios or just small teams. Portal is so well praised yet it was created more as a 'side project' by valve, never being expected to be a break out hit it was, garnishing so much attention and praise despite not having that big budget and being a rather short game as it was. Minecraft was started as a very small scale project by one person that ended up growing greatly and becoming such a successful game. 

     

    Throwing money won't  make you a good game. Sure, some of those big games end up making lots of profits, but often spending so much to do so and leaving such a tiny impact in the industry. 10 years from now, do you think you will be able to recall that generic FPS shooter and what title it is, or will it just blend in with one another?

    We're on the same page. If a company came out and said something like this, it would be something I could get behind. 

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants. 
     

     

    There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games.

    Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers.

    Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products.

    You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...

     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     

    I can rebut all that you said with just 2 words-

    Brad McQuaid

    And you would be correct - however not ever CEO with game dev experience is Brad McQuaid.

    Just like not ever CEO without game experience is clueless, there are always exceptions.

     

    Thus is true.

    Still waiting for those exceptions

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Kihei, HIPosts: 754Member
    I got news for you. The whole world is heading full steam to a crash. The gaming industry is small potatoes.
  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 808Member Uncommon

    Sometimes the best thing for the land is for a lightning bolt to come down and strike that old forest that has been standing for decades darkening the forest floor and preventing new saplings from springing up. Sometimes it's just better to let the forest burn.

    Think of it this way, When the FPS was born the RPG died, but when it finally came back we got Fallout and Baldur's Gate, and out of the ashes of the ET Atari game, we got the NES and all the great games that have led up to this stagnation. If you compare the terms of popularity from the first console boom to the (current) second, the length of life was increased by an order of magnitude.

    If we were to allow the current game industry crash to unfold naturally, the resultant comeback after years of creative minds with nothing to make and eager gamers with nothing to play would be nothing less than a complete transformation.

    I say embrace the indies, turn your back on the triple As and watch the greatness unfold...

     

    And just for the record, 60-80 hours a week during crunch?!? I once had three months of 18-20 hour days with no days off for a 're-imagining' of a game we knew the players would hate. It's shockingly difficult to be creative after 13 120+ hour weeks in a row.

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by avalon1000
    I got news for you. The whole world is heading full steam to a crash. The gaming industry is small potatoes.

    I've been hearing that for over 30 years.  When I was kid the doomsday talking point was "Peak Oil".  We've gone through a few others since then.  Somehow we're all still here using the internet no less.

     

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by avalon1000
    I got news for you. The whole world is heading full steam to a crash. The gaming industry is small potatoes.

    It's no big deal, we are not important.

    We only think we are - but our entire existance is not even a picosecond in universal time.

    And in terms of multiverse, we don't even register.

    Humanity - we're a non factor.

    The universe goes on without us just fine.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Then what does the board of directors do, play with their thumbs?CEO can't do any major decisions or strategy without the boards approval, so who is really in control? 

    Board only oversee, you could say that CEO is responsible to the board, it is still CEO to make the decisions tho.

    Please stop, you have absolutely no clue what you talk about.


    Making games is a business, not a hobby.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    in terms of multiverse, we don't even register.

    unless playing games!

    http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/gameplay

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Only one small problem with that idea: gamers will expect them to produce a game bigger and better than GTA V with that 15 million...

    This.

    How many times have we seen some indy designer post screen shots only to have some of the "kinder" criticisms be something like "that's so 1990's"

    I sometimes get the sense that some gamers want a "new, forward thinking mmo what has all the features of their favorite old school mmo, made on a much smaller budget by gamer developers who aren't 'in it' for the money but for the love of it. The game must have amazing graphics and not skimp on features."

    And it must be "f2p and allow every one to be able to access all the game without paying a dime only making money on cosmetic items."

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    I personally thought it was extremely clear already that the industry on many levels is crashing ... and I still think this is a very good thing.

    You stay sassy!

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    Hater fodder. Funny though.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hater fodder. Funny though.

    It really is just that.

  • LeGrosGamerLeGrosGamer Canada, QCPosts: 210Member

    It's a nice read and pretty much sums up what I've been saying for years.  Since when did MMORPG's needed to have 3D graphics over game play?   a few hundred million dollars for SWTOR, such a waste.   That's why indie Devs are going to raise the roof in the coming years.  People are slowly waking up and taking their heads out of their butts and are actually sitting out pre orders.   The last pre order I've done was FF14, which was great at first, but once the story line is done, the game itself is pretty much crap. Sorry for the spoiler, but for those who didn't try FF14, don't bother. It does have the best story line I have ever seen, makes you want to hear and read every detail. But once you're done with the story, it's grind-O-mania all over again.

      It's sad that these big time Pubs / Devs are releasing their titles ASAP and ditching out annoying bugs.  If you look on the other side with indie Devs, they're taking their sweet ass times perfecting a game that will end up being GREAT once launched.  And I've backed 2 projects up to now from KickStarter : GrimDawn and Novus Aeterno. 

       Indie is the future of online gaming, and it will happen a lot sooner then everyone expect it to be.   So no I won't be trying out the over hyped TESO.   The only way TESO will do good is if they tone down on graphics, because not everyone have a 3K$ rig to play this without any issues.  Bet nobody thought about the system reqs for TESO yet uh?  All busy pissing yourselves on a Elder Scrolls online, but fail to see how problematic it will be when 2 people join the session and the game starts lagging like hell.    Yeah, keep praising it, it'll burn like the rest of the MMO titles.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    to clarify:

    i find no fault w Cracked authors criticism of gaming

    but i strongly disagree it's leading to a videogame slump

    Deleted some of the post for the sake of space.

    I don't think he's advocating a slump as much as a potential crash or shakeup of the status quo. A slump would result from disinterest, but a crash could result from untenable circumstances. I think he presents the latter.

    He doesn't take into account some factors like new blood coming in searching for development rock-stardom; the premise that gamers will throw their money at anything and everything, especially if it's new; and the broadening market having lower standards about gaming complexity and depth.

    I do think he hit the mark fairly spot on with many of his points. The ingratiating reviewer hoping to get their site or magazine plastered on the game site - obviously an indirect revenue source. I think this site is occasionally guilty of that, although it's hard to condemn that because if they don't they could fade into irrelevance - gamers are fickle and like shinies.

    I don't think it's going to be an '83 crash, but I do think the current situation isn't sustainable in its present form. He's not alone in that opinion. It seems to pervade some veterans of the industry. I got that impression from Marc Jacobs, from the folks at inXile, and the recent AMA with Raph Koster.

2
Sign In or Register to comment.