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From Cracked: Gaming Industry Headed For A CRASH!

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  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Maybe the big change will simply be more game developers going to business school.
     

    call me jaded but i used to work as a programmer in the healthcare industry and i saw similar trend

    CEOs hired with no healthcare background but they knew about financing!

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219
    Most of the venture capital is going away from MMO's due to their terrible performance (themeparks). Mobile maybe is where the cash is heading (doubt that's a good move either!!).
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by DMKano

    No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick. 

    You do not understand what COE role in company is.

    CEO is who leads. Person making the decisions and strategy for the company.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Yeah, its totally not like they made a big budget MMo recently that completely flopped and went F2P... oh wait... SWTOR.

     

    Money being thrown at a game doesn't make a good game. Hell, if you look at many of the 'big hit' or critically aclaimed games, they were typically projects that were either done by small studios or just small teams. Portal is so well praised yet it was created more as a 'side project' by valve, never being expected to be a break out hit it was, garnishing so much attention and praise despite not having that big budget and being a rather short game as it was. Minecraft was started as a very small scale project by one person that ended up growing greatly and becoming such a successful game. 

     

    Throwing money won't  make you a good game. Sure, some of those big games end up making lots of profits, but often spending so much to do so and leaving such a tiny impact in the industry. 10 years from now, do you think you will be able to recall that generic FPS shooter and what title it is, or will it just blend in with one another?

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Member UncommonPosts: 368
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants. 
     

     

    There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games.

    Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers.

    Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products.

    You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...

     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     

    I can rebut all that you said with just 2 words-

    Brad McQuaid

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Yeah, its totally not like they made a big budget MMo recently that completely flopped and went F2P... oh wait... SWTOR.

     

    Money being thrown at a game doesn't make a good game. Hell, if you look at many of the 'big hit' or critically aclaimed games, they were typically projects that were either done by small studios or just small teams. Portal is so well praised yet it was created more as a 'side project' by valve, never being expected to be a break out hit it was, garnishing so much attention and praise despite not having that big budget and being a rather short game as it was. Minecraft was started as a very small scale project by one person that ended up growing greatly and becoming such a successful game. 

     

    Throwing money won't  make you a good game. Sure, some of those big games end up making lots of profits, but often spending so much to do so and leaving such a tiny impact in the industry. 10 years from now, do you think you will be able to recall that generic FPS shooter and what title it is, or will it just blend in with one another?

    We're on the same page. If a company came out and said something like this, it would be something I could get behind. 

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Member UncommonPosts: 368
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Skyrocketing budgets - this is the biggest problem, the way development on games is done MUST change - otherwise all game dev studios will go bankrupt. Again look at what Hartsman is doing with Trove (talking strictly development, not what kind of game it is) - get a small team of devs, let them come up with a concept they love, then have players try alpha and have NO nda. Small budget, tight focused team and immediate feedback from the public so that you don't waste time/money on features nobody wants. 
     

     

    There is only way around ever increasing budgets, you stop making that type of games.

    Your example only works for low budget projects - same what Zinga did, they produced dozens of games to get a 1 or 2 money makers.

    Only thing that small dev teams attract is a failure...since they are no business people and in most cases shoot for more than they can chew, producing sub-par, non-competitive products.

    You need someone with money awareness in lead, not a gamer. Leading a company is no video game...

     No the CEO must be a game industry veteran with actual game dev experience - in this case MMORPG dev experience, he will have money awareness as you can't be a head of huge MMO dev team without budget planning.

    However, the CFO is someone with real money awareness, who works closely with the CEO. 

    CEO does not lead a company - the board does, the CEO is there to provide the vision and his instinct to what games to persue.

    The problem of having a non-mmo designer/director/dev as a CEO is they lack *vision* for the company and having the *nose* for a good game project that is worth investing into.

    A business guy will say *I like this game* - but he has no experience to whys, hows and where to take it - he's got no sense of what makes the games and gamers tick.

     

    I can rebut all that you said with just 2 words-

    Brad McQuaid

    And you would be correct - however not ever CEO with game dev experience is Brad McQuaid.

    Just like not ever CEO without game experience is clueless, there are always exceptions.

     

    Thus is true.

    Still waiting for those exceptions

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Member UncommonPosts: 791
    I got news for you. The whole world is heading full steam to a crash. The gaming industry is small potatoes.
  • VelocinoxVelocinox Member UncommonPosts: 1,010

    Sometimes the best thing for the land is for a lightning bolt to come down and strike that old forest that has been standing for decades darkening the forest floor and preventing new saplings from springing up. Sometimes it's just better to let the forest burn.

    Think of it this way, When the FPS was born the RPG died, but when it finally came back we got Fallout and Baldur's Gate, and out of the ashes of the ET Atari game, we got the NES and all the great games that have led up to this stagnation. If you compare the terms of popularity from the first console boom to the (current) second, the length of life was increased by an order of magnitude.

    If we were to allow the current game industry crash to unfold naturally, the resultant comeback after years of creative minds with nothing to make and eager gamers with nothing to play would be nothing less than a complete transformation.

    I say embrace the indies, turn your back on the triple As and watch the greatness unfold...

     

    And just for the record, 60-80 hours a week during crunch?!? I once had three months of 18-20 hour days with no days off for a 're-imagining' of a game we knew the players would hate. It's shockingly difficult to be creative after 13 120+ hour weeks in a row.

     

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by avalon1000
    I got news for you. The whole world is heading full steam to a crash. The gaming industry is small potatoes.

    I've been hearing that for over 30 years.  When I was kid the doomsday talking point was "Peak Oil".  We've gone through a few others since then.  Somehow we're all still here using the internet no less.

     

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Then what does the board of directors do, play with their thumbs?CEO can't do any major decisions or strategy without the boards approval, so who is really in control? 

    Board only oversee, you could say that CEO is responsible to the board, it is still CEO to make the decisions tho.

    Please stop, you have absolutely no clue what you talk about.


    Making games is a business, not a hobby.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by DMKano

    in terms of multiverse, we don't even register.

    unless playing games!

    http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/gameplay

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Big budgets huh. What if a company came out and said something like, "We feel mmorpg budgets are out of control, and haven't produced a better product. For our next project, we're setting a budget of 15 million. We believe..." Hmm.

    Only one small problem with that idea: gamers will expect them to produce a game bigger and better than GTA V with that 15 million...

    This.

    How many times have we seen some indy designer post screen shots only to have some of the "kinder" criticisms be something like "that's so 1990's"

    I sometimes get the sense that some gamers want a "new, forward thinking mmo what has all the features of their favorite old school mmo, made on a much smaller budget by gamer developers who aren't 'in it' for the money but for the love of it. The game must have amazing graphics and not skimp on features."

    And it must be "f2p and allow every one to be able to access all the game without paying a dime only making money on cosmetic items."

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,025

    I personally thought it was extremely clear already that the industry on many levels is crashing ... and I still think this is a very good thing.

    You stay sassy!

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    Hater fodder. Funny though.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hater fodder. Funny though.

    It really is just that.

  • LeGrosGamerLeGrosGamer Member UncommonPosts: 223

    It's a nice read and pretty much sums up what I've been saying for years.  Since when did MMORPG's needed to have 3D graphics over game play?   a few hundred million dollars for SWTOR, such a waste.   That's why indie Devs are going to raise the roof in the coming years.  People are slowly waking up and taking their heads out of their butts and are actually sitting out pre orders.   The last pre order I've done was FF14, which was great at first, but once the story line is done, the game itself is pretty much crap. Sorry for the spoiler, but for those who didn't try FF14, don't bother. It does have the best story line I have ever seen, makes you want to hear and read every detail. But once you're done with the story, it's grind-O-mania all over again.

      It's sad that these big time Pubs / Devs are releasing their titles ASAP and ditching out annoying bugs.  If you look on the other side with indie Devs, they're taking their sweet ass times perfecting a game that will end up being GREAT once launched.  And I've backed 2 projects up to now from KickStarter : GrimDawn and Novus Aeterno. 

       Indie is the future of online gaming, and it will happen a lot sooner then everyone expect it to be.   So no I won't be trying out the over hyped TESO.   The only way TESO will do good is if they tone down on graphics, because not everyone have a 3K$ rig to play this without any issues.  Bet nobody thought about the system reqs for TESO yet uh?  All busy pissing yourselves on a Elder Scrolls online, but fail to see how problematic it will be when 2 people join the session and the game starts lagging like hell.    Yeah, keep praising it, it'll burn like the rest of the MMO titles.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hater fodder. Funny though.

    It really is just that.

    KInd of. There is some truth in there. I don't think the current environment is sustainable long term. There will be changes, not just from normal evolution, but because of that unsustainability. However, I don't think there will be a crash. Humans are incredibly adaptable. Things might get shaken up a bit, but KS and indie movements from vets like inXile show that not everyone is going to take the status quo lying down or accept that others dictate their fate. That would be most un-gamer of them to do so. :p

    Gaming isn't the type of industry that "crashes" Big companies can come and go but people's want for new games and this whole section of entertainment will see to it that as some fall others will rise. A crash implies there will be a time where the industry can't sustain itself. The only way that could happen is if gamers stop paying. If someone honestly thinks that's going to happen, they have no idea what they're talking about. Much like, some of the people on this site.... As some burn out and fade away they think the industry will burn out with them, but there is always a new generation that eats up all those things that have been done before, because it's new to them.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Foomerang Hater fodder. Funny though.
    It really is just that.
    KInd of. There is some truth in there. I don't think the current environment is sustainable long term. There will be changes, not just from normal evolution, but because of that unsustainability. However, I don't think there will be a crash. Humans are incredibly adaptable. Things might get shaken up a bit, but KS and indie movements from vets like inXile show that not everyone is going to take the status quo lying down or accept that others dictate their fate. That would be most un-gamer of them to do so. :p
    Gaming isn't the type of industry that "crashes" Big companies can come and go but people's want for new games and this whole section of entertainment will see to it that as some fall others will rise. A crash implies there will be a time where the industry can't sustain itself. The only way that could happen is if gamers stop paying. If someone honestly thinks that's going to happen, they have no idea what they're talking about. Much like, some of the people on this site.... As some burn out and fade away they think the industry will burn out with them, but there is always a new generation that eats up all those things that have been done before, because it's new to them.

     




    Any industry can crash. For example, the "Dot Com Bubble" that popped, and the "Housing Bubble" that burst, and finally, the video game industry bubble of 1983 that went pop. It's entirely possible for an industry to spend so much money on producing products that people don't buy that the businesses within the industry have to shutdown.

    I'm not so sure the gaming industry is actually going to do that, but to say it can't happen is a bit naive.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by DamonVile
     
    Gaming isn't the type of industry that "crashes" Big companies can come and go but people's want for new games and this whole section of entertainment will see to it that as some fall others will rise. A crash implies there will be a time where the industry can't sustain itself. The only way that could happen is if gamers stop paying. If someone honestly thinks that's going to happen, they have no idea what they're talking about. Much like, some of the people on this site.... As some burn out and fade away they think the industry will burn out with them, but there is always a new generation that eats up all those things that have been done before, because it's new to them.

     

     



    Any industry can crash. For example, the "Dot Com Bubble" that popped, and the "Housing Bubble" that burst, and finally, the video game industry bubble of 1983 that went pop. It's entirely possible for an industry to spend so much money on producing products that people don't buy that the businesses within the industry have to shutdown.

    I'm not so sure the gaming industry is actually going to do that, but to say it can't happen is a bit naive.

     

    1983 and 2013 are not the same industries. A few companies making games for a few thousand people isn't very stable. Thousands of companies making games for hundreds of millions of people is an apple to an orange. The dot com bubble is the same situation as the 1983 game industry. It was new, exploded and then crashed. Those examples don't represent what the gaming industry is right now.

    Professional sports is an industry that is in much the same position as video games are. It could happen, that one of the big games "crashes" but all teams in all sports are not going to crash and sports as a whole is just put on hold. Fans will watch something. When Hokey went on strike fans started to watch other sports and junior hokey became very popular. When the strike ended, the game picked up and went back to "normal" pretty fast. 

    Unlike the housing bubble, games are not government regulated and the money isn't all coming from one source that all has the same rules. If EA went down tomorrow ( we can only hope :P ) gamers would just move to other games. Game companies don't all follow the same payment models any more and don't all up prices at the same rates. 

    The only way an industry like online gaming could "crash" is if something like blockbuster/movie rentals happened to it. A very sudden shift in what or how people played them. 

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Member UncommonPosts: 630

    Funny stuff, thanks for reminding me of Cracked in general. I used to read that growing up along with Mad!

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by DamonVile  
    Gaming isn't the type of industry that "crashes" Big companies can come and go but people's want for new games and this whole section of entertainment will see to it that as some fall others will rise. A crash implies there will be a time where the industry can't sustain itself. The only way that could happen is if gamers stop paying. If someone honestly thinks that's going to happen, they have no idea what they're talking about. Much like, some of the people on this site.... As some burn out and fade away they think the industry will burn out with them, but there is always a new generation that eats up all those things that have been done before, because it's new to them.    
    Any industry can crash. For example, the "Dot Com Bubble" that popped, and the "Housing Bubble" that burst, and finally, the video game industry bubble of 1983 that went pop. It's entirely possible for an industry to spend so much money on producing products that people don't buy that the businesses within the industry have to shutdown. I'm not so sure the gaming industry is actually going to do that, but to say it can't happen is a bit naive.  
    1983 and 2013 are not the same industries. A few companies making games for a few thousand people isn't very stable. Thousands of companies making games for hundreds of millions of people is an apple to an orange. The dot com bubble is the same situation as the 1983 game industry. It was new, exploded and then crashed. Those examples don't represent what the gaming industry is right now.

    Professional sports is an industry that is in much the same position as video games are. It could happen, that one of the big games "crashes" but all teams in all sports are not going to crash and sports as a whole is just put on hold. Fans will watch something. When Hokey went on strike fans started to watch other sports and junior hokey became very popular. When the strike ended, the game picked up and went back to "normal" pretty fast. 

    Unlike the housing bubble, games are not government regulated and the money isn't all coming from one source that all has the same rules. If EA went down tomorrow ( we can only hope :P ) gamers would just move to other games. Game companies don't all follow the same payment models any more and don't all up prices at the same rates. 

    The only way an industry like online gaming could "crash" is if something like blockbuster/movie rentals happened to it. A very sudden shift in what or how people played them. 




    Markets, especially "free" markets are inherently unstable. They have to be in order to response to changes. There doesn't exist a market that can't crash. It is inevitable. The only question is when.

    You might have the wrong impression of the word "Crash" as it's being used here though. "Crash" doesn't mean disappear. The housing market didn't disappear and the gaming market didn't disappear in 1983. It just means that a lot of the financial transactions would stop for awhile, and some of the bigger companies would not survive.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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