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World of Darkness: Layoffs at CCP Altanta Affect Dev Team

13

Comments

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by AndrewGoat
    This game was seriously one of the few MMOs I was truly looking forward to, as we don't actually have very many if any dark, vampire/werewolf type games in the MMO genre. If they screw this up, it will be an epic failure. I can't understand how a company would continue to work on a sandbox of trolls(EVE Online) instead of getting this game up and running. Makes no sense.

    Because their only successful venture is called EVE Online, it is unique in the gaming world, especially the MMO scene which likes to copy the well known sandbox milking cow.

    EVE is their flagship and main money sink , their 2nd venture WOD isnt even Live yet -probably never will- and their 3rd -DUST- is a massive failure so far.

    So yes, why shouldn't they ditch EVE Online as they have so many other good titles to look after?

     

    Shouldn't that "flagship" be making enough money to keep their employees?  Something about that flagship or its business model is making it less profitable than they expected.  Even heartless companies hate firing people during the Holidays, if not for reasons of conscience, then for public relations and image.

    just pointing out that mr Goat hints at stopping pouring money into their main income.

    Always a smart move to abandon your main income to free up resources for a questionable project. :S

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Strategic adjustment.... Why do I picture someone getting kicked in the face while they cling to a raft that's starting to sink.

    ^this.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • jagd1jagd1 istanbulPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    A lot of People (me included) wanted WIS to be fully developed and Integrated into the game.

    It´s this very vocal Group of EVE players that litterly threatened CCP to stop it and change Development direction and continue do the same old same old that benefits the largest Corps in the game.

    I dont know when you started to play eve but WIS announced at 2007  http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/11409 promised a lot  and 4 years later delivered nothing , only inside a  room with an avatar  can do nothing .  And before 18-24 months it was released eve was a ghost ship / abondened by devs with full of bugs waiting to fixed.

    CCP  took to money from eve players and focused on dust514 and WOD  and gave nothing back that period ( 2009-2011)  than and than ''Greed is good '' happened and they pulled another ostrich  and angered whole player base .Basicly CCP took money and   gave back nothing for  2 years  and angered  players , it was not WIS alone (and probably it was last thing on list )  and  i say this someone not interested with WIS .

    Players was against CCP  and all the moronic things they did, not just  WIS  (  although it was no purpose with that crappy implamantation i think ) even just store fronts could save WIS . You should ask CCP what happenedl to all promised things , dont blame players for that crap.

     

    What players wanted working and bug free game ,if they want to make another game ok as long as they had been keep eve at working condition and i think nobody can argue against it . You should ask to CCP why they did this moronic thing and abondoned eve at that time .

     

     

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,713Member Uncommon
    an awful lot of guessing and assumptions.  Like an early poster said, we would have to know the reason the layoffs occurred and what positions were involved.  Until we get concrete info, we're all just peeing in the wind.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • DarquegrynDarquegryn Metuchen, NJPosts: 10Member
    <<<Huge WoD fan...gave up on this title ages ago :(
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon

    As far s WOD, Maybe CCP realized that the whole vampires and werewolf thing sort of peaked several years ago and has been played out for a long time now.

    I know there are still fans who cling on to this IP - but it's time to move on.

    Underworld - 2003, than with Twilight/True Blood resurgance in 2008 - now it's just not popular anymore.

    The best flick is still the original Nosferatu from 1922 imo

     

     

  • WolfhammerWolfhammer KetteringPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo


    Still WoD is Top 5 Most anticipated in this sterile genre. Hope they just release a smaller
    Game and let the players build/run it.

    Doomed to failure from the start.  We all know gamers in general have no clue what they want, they just shout about what they think they want.  When they get it they disappear onto something else because they didnt like it.

    Us gamers are arseholes !

     

    image

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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,116Member Uncommon
    I am/was interested in this game but have since pretty much relegated it to the "vaporware" category sadly.

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  • atuerstaratuerstar melbournePosts: 234Member

    Ill go out on a limb and say this - You dont need as many Devs when you decide you are only making a cheap console cash in.

     

    Like everything else CCP does now.

  • WolfhammerWolfhammer KetteringPosts: 697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by atuerstar

    Ill go out on a limb and say this - You dont need as many Devs when you decide you are only making a cheap console cash in.

     

    Like everything else CCP does now.

    OUCH - But yeah, i cant say you're wrong !

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  • AlomarAlomar Middle Earth, NJPosts: 451Member Uncommon
    Sad news indeed, I'm currently playing Eve for my 6th or 7th time over the years, great game but the content being released these days is not up to par with what you'd expect from CCP. Totally agree about Dust, was an utter disappointment that I myself would still give a try if it was on xbox or pc.

    Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    CCP are make best mmorpg on market but they can't handle with any another project .

    They should stick with EVE only!

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Seems my interpretation of past events was pretty spot on. They obviously were looking for ways to make more money back during Monoclegate. Instead they let their players dictate their business plans.They were also looking to bring new untapped players into EVE with their direction with WIS, again they let their current players dictate their future business plans. I'm sure that's all fine and good for their current audience, however for them and everyone looking forward to WOD? Not so much.
    They are in a situation where they must cater to the EvE players. If one leave, its like 4+ subs. Its a weird scenario with so many subs belonging to so little actual players. But yeah you can hold a lot of sway that way.
  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    I see this as the result of the upper management of CCP being more devs and designers rather than business people. Two cuts to same team in less than year pretty much screams that your resources are being spread too thin.

     

    WoD and VR both need to be canned until Eve and (more importantly) Dust are on solid ground. Unless you're a research university, technology demos don't generate revenue, and that's all VR is at the moment. New titles several years from completion don't generate revenue. You need plenty of cash on hand to due either of these; attempting to do both in a company the size of CCP is, quite frankly, stupid.

    <3

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member


    Originally posted by Wolfhammer


    Originally posted by MumboJumbo


    Still WoD is Top 5 Most anticipated in this sterile genre. Hope they just release a smaller
    Game and let the players build/run it.

    CCP + bloody violent + dark/mature themed Sandbox with eg Permadeath and politics

    I feel the genre could do with this. That is why it would make my top 5 anticipated.

    Many mmorpgs don't do anything really different to produce different experiences.
  • sfc1971sfc1971 UtrechtPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    I worry about the direction CCP is going.  I don't think releasing DUST as a PS-only game was a very bright idea and from what I can see, it has not generated the kind of revenue nor brought in the new players to Eve they had hoped.

    If I was running CCP, I would create a copy of Eve and launch it on a second set of servers.  I would change the rules of the game to make it less brutal: auto contracts to prevent scams, no gate camps in empire, no can flipping and other things to attract more non-pvp-focused people into the game.  It could be launched as a "first-step" to Eve and as people play there and learn to love the game, they would eventually move into the original servers where the real action is.  The beauty is, it would take very little development effort since they can use the current game and only change the rules a bit.  It would have more of a chance to bring in revenue than DUST and would be much cheaper and faster to launch than WoD.

     

     

     

    Eve is the worst of projects you could ever get involved with, it is a maintenance death spiral with a very gradual slope.

    Before all the Eve fans jump on me, what has the game been doing? Exactly. NOTHING. Oh it continues to make money BUT if you log in you soon see a player base of just a few thousand people. Many more pay BUT not enough to fund new development. Instead, all resources are being spend keeping the game alive, which is never quite enough to boost the game upwards.

    Any business sim player will regonize the scenario, where you themepark, train empire is just bringing in enough money not to go bankrupt but you don't have any money to expand.

    WOD has been in development limbo for how long now?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr_KVNrxtRI the cloth simulation trailer is 3 years old now. It still looks amazing but without a game, what use is it? A new company can attract investors willing to gamble but CCP has shown exactly what they can do with a title... break even. All that needs to happen is for another company to make a space trading game that is just slightly better and CCP will be gone.

    CCP needs to accept that Eve is a dead end. Yes it has a lot of players, yes it is making money but the harsh reality of business is that just breaking even isn't enough, you got to be able to invest into the future. To develop the next product when your current one expires. Your run a fryer, you got to make enough money not just to buy new fries but to replace the oil, the fryers themselves and eventually the building. If not, you are just delaying bankruptcy.

    Eve has reached its peak. It won't attract more players with things like Dust because at its core, it is a spreadsheet with not very good graphics and there just aren't that many people intrested in playing it. 

    Everyone who wants to play Eve is playing it already. WOD could have been a new product for a different market but even if it were still to launch with such a long development time it is bound to feel archaic. 

  • ZieglerZiegler nashville, TNPosts: 159Member
    CCP Atlanta is not even true CCP...it's White Wolf Publishing which was bought lock stock and barrel by CCP. So I would say there is little motivation to keep those employees around, especially if they arent fitting into the plan of things.
  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ziegler
    CCP Atlanta is not even true CCP...it's White Wolf Publishing which was bought lock stock and barrel by CCP. So I would say there is little motivation to keep those employees around, especially if they arent fitting into the plan of things.

    I don't think there's anything left of good old White Wolf. CCP gutted them to literally one man coordinating freelancers, printers, etc after that EVE Online monocle debacle lead to layoffs. Or so I last heard.

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    Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
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    Technology without Magic is repetitious and uninventive.
  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    What makes it very odd is that CCP is making a killing with Eve, a game that runs for pennies raking in millions.

    point being that if they truly were committed and cared about WOD,they most certainly could afford to do it full steam ahead.

    It really makes me wonder wth is CCP doing with all the money they make,are these guys filling up offshore accounts ready to sink the ship soon?When you have a lot of money and lay guys off from an unfnished product,there is something seriously wrong under the hood.

    To me it is a no brainer,they couldn't care less about this game anymore but they will tell you they do because they want  to make something out of this investment.

    This is what kills me about so many gamers, thinking they know stuff about the industry that they really don't.

     

    There is no MMO on the planet that "costs pennies to run".

     

    Having engineers to work on systems, artists to make new art, community reps, customer server, billing, web programmers/operators, store coders, QA, managers, office space, bandwidth/server costs, etc etc etc.

     

    It costs a lot to run any MMO, but there are so many people on MMORPG who "know how it all works" and are so sure that everything is cheap and easy so why don't companies get it right, get it done faster, and give it to me for free.

     

    If you have a team of 50 people in the game industry an average salary across the group of $50k would be normal, or even on the low side (QA tends to get less, coders tend to get more, content, artists, CS in the middle). Due to benefits such as health care and 401ks etc. the actual tally for a company could work out to be 65k per. That alone is 3.25 million dollars a year. This company definitely has more people than that as one running MMO tends to have that or more and they have a second game launched and had a team working on a third.

    So how on Earth do you think companies are running MMOs for pennies?????

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    Poor WOD is always the victim of shortfalls from other non WOD related things (cough cough) Ehem, sorry, must be DUSTY in here or something...

    I hope CCP gets back to doing what it's good at, MMOs. EVE and WOD.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    If you have a team of 50 people in the game industry an average salary across the group of $50k would be normal, or even on the low side (QA tends to get less, coders tend to get more, content, artists, CS in the middle). Due to benefits such as health care and 401ks etc. the actual tally for a company could work out to be 65k per. That alone is 3.25 million dollars a year. This company definitely has more people than that as one running MMO tends to have that or more and they have a second game launched and had a team working on a third.

    So how on Earth do you think companies are running MMOs for pennies?????

    Assuming Eve still has 300k active accounts means 54 million per year and that does not include sales from the ingame store, extra cash from plex or other revenue.  If you assume the average salary at CCP is 75,000 per person, that covers 720 people to work at CCP.  I dont believe they even have half that many people working there.

    While I agree MMOs cost real money to make.  It is also clear CCP has money to spare.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ziegler
    CCP Atlanta is not even true CCP...

    We're not?

    Dammit, I missed a memo somewhere. :(

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Ziegler
    CCP Atlanta is not even true CCP...

    We're not?

    Dammit, I missed a memo somewhere. :(

     Don't worry you'll get it with your pink slip. :(

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    Maybe if CCP didn't sink so much money in the pointless Dust 514, they would have the money to develope a better game (WOD)

    I said it in my blog before the launch of Dust 514 that publishing that game for a console would be a disaster.

     

    Dust 514 had to be blended with EvE, that would have attracted more players to EvE who don't usually play the game because they don't like playing in outer space all the time (me included).

     
  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Ziegler
    CCP Atlanta is not even true CCP...

    We're not?

    Dammit, I missed a memo somewhere. :(

     Don't worry you'll get it with your pink slip. :(

     

    Lol

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