I believe the rooted combat of days past was due to technological limitations. Personally I would like combat to be more like Devil Maycry, God of War or Vindicus. I feel more engaged in those games, the hits feel more substantial. I think GW2 comes close to that sort of combat which is why I like it but after a while it becomes tiresome due to the lack of variety. I think EQN's solution to this problem is allowing multiclassing. I like readjusting my tactics to overcome a challenge.
Hate me all you want, but if I'm playing an MMORPG I would actually prefer the good old click to move system with many many skills to choose from on my bar. I would like to see that the player quality is again dependent on wise skill usage instead of his ability to dodge.
Further more, I think that this fluid combat that is best represented by GW2 (but also SWTOR and some other modern MMORPGs) looks quite stupid. People jumping and running circles around each other while fighting... It just looks completely lame and I think stuff like that should never really come into MMORPGs. Pressing buttons 1-6 + whatever else you have binded, while trying to move your character with WASD, jump and evade is also something that deeply annoys me... while on the other hand, the only thing you really use your mouse for is rotating your camera and targeting... Yeah I can see someone quoting me and telling me to buy Razer Naga here, so don't do it, I already know your answer.
If I want fast, twitchy, action combat that rewards my ability to move and aim, I'll go back to playing Quake, but please, keep that shit out of RPGs :S
If I want the game to reward me for wisely using the skills of my character to react to how my enemy plays and what he plays, without having to focus on terrible character/combat controls, I would like to have an MMORPG that does that.
Action combat + skill mashing just don't go together very well in my opinion.
I'm hoping EQ:N pulls off something great because GW2 you never feel like you're progressing.
I guess you missed that EQ:N won't have levels and that progression will be mostly horizontal (gaining new classes and skills). Progressing in EQ:N will probably not be what you want.
Originally posted by evilastro
Anyway I like Vanguards system (later adopted by EQ2) the best, where you could move while casting, but at a reduced movement speed. This could be negated by either gear with appropriate stats or by casting certain skills (levitate for instance).
EQ2 is one of the few classical MMOs where I don't feel the need to dodge sometimes (an issue I have since I played GW2/NWN). I guess the casting while moving is one of the reason why.
Can't play static combat MMOs anymore. GW2 changed that, and there's no going back. If the game doesn't require or at least reward moving in combat, odds are I'm not playing it.
I don't think action combat and RPGs are mutually exclusive. Wouldn't the ultimate RPG be like a holodeck? Combat in a holodeck could be considered the ultimate action combat. Now if you are looking for "strategy" rpg then perhaps action combat is isn't what you are looking for and you prefer something more akin to chess. I can see the value in both types.
I don't think action combat is old enough for it to have a classic style
But I don't like the free movement of gw2 fighting. It felt very console/button spammy to me. "rooted" combat means you can't just use whatever skill you want whenever you want. If you're caught mid action, you're caught mid action and it tends to hurt.
I don't think either are better. They just offer different things for a combat style.
This.
I love both rooted and free from combat. Depends on what mood I'm in. I do find the free movement action type combat more fun, mainly because I'm used to that and find it easier.
Originally posted by Darwa I always loved the combat in Vanguard. You're not rooted to the spot, and you don't have to flap all over the place in order to survive.
Yeah, I think somewhere between Vanguard and Age of Conan would be perfect for me.
I like mobility, but I hate bunny hopping. I liked that Age of Conan restricted bunny hopping by having it linked to stamina. So if you were dashing around and jumping around, you didn't have enough stamina to attack.
Did not like the free moving combat of GW2 at all.
Absolutely terrible for PvP.
PvP fights in GW2 was basically just people running around all over the place like chickens with their heads cut off spamming attacks whenever in range because there is no consequence for doing so and no reason to stand still.
Attacks rooting the player means there are consequences to your actions so you have to time and plan your attacks.
non moving combat feels so much like the civil war...
I really like combat where placing and movement is paret of the show. You can also add Wildstar to the list.. However, i also like dedicated rolls, and thats where both GW2 and EQN seem to fail..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
As someone who started in MUDs, paper RPG and turn based games I should probably choose the old rooted combat. I would give that answer if these games hadn't dumbed down combat to the point where a trained monkey can do it. The combat pacing is all off for rooted combat in most MMORPG too.
If they slowed down combat and add a lot of depth to the strategy involved then I'd much prefer rooted. If you had to think more than just react.
If you are going to have fast paced, reactive combat you are basically making your combat into an FPS or arcade game in which case movement based is definitely the way to go.
I really like gw2 movement however for a game that requires you to actually move they have nerfed it by limiting to amount of movement that you can actually do!
Acrobats do not do 2 moves then wait 30 seconds before they can do any more moves. Also, so many skills are available that lock the char in place, totally defeating the whole movement in combat concept!
TERA's combat is the best so far in my opinion. It emphasizes skill and tactful play. Its very fast paced at 60, and not spammy like GW2 for example, but if you use the wrong ability at the wrong time it will severely screw you because of animation lock on some abilities which is risk/reward (something we need more of in MMO's today).
So knowing when to use abilities is key, you have the aiming component which is greater than that of GW2 or ESO (EQNext is yet to be determined). You also have more abilities to juggle than them all. Limited action set is great in its own way. But I feel like the limited action set needs to be increased to about 10-12 abilities instead of 7-8.
OUt of the games mentioned by the OP though, I feel EQ: Next will be the greater of the three. At least thats what I hope since I have no interest in the other two what so ever.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I don't mind the "standing" combat but I really like Tera's combat. what I don't ever like is bunny hopping or constantly rolling and rolling and rolling out of the way.
I think combat still needs to look good.
People complain about animations all the time but rarely do I see people complain about how ridiculous some of these "jump out of the way/roll out of the way" systems are.
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Originally posted by PWN_FACE I'm playing SWTOR a bit now to enjoy the stories and some relaxing grinding in between sessions of War Thunder, but I still would like it better if we could move in that game, too. So many times I find myself wailing away at a mob with my lightsaber but not damaging it because it's not targeted....it's hilarious.
Roll a Sith Assassin and go down the Darkness tree (tanking tree). Its almost all instants. I'm not a huge combat fan in mmos, but when I played swtor, this character was a blast. Highly mobile, knockbacks and pulls, some very cool animations and the double bladed lightsaber is always nice.
since i havent played EQN i dont know how that one feels.
AS for GW2 and TESO, I love how moveing in combat feels in GW2, i just love it because the characters even in combat they go with the flow, very naturally. In TESO, however, it doesnt feel as good as Skyrim. I already said this before but moving in TESO felt like Defiance. I didnt like that at all. I want to believe that it was because its beta but im sure they're going to be the same launch animations too
Both games released well before GW2. Both games, in my opinion, had more enjoyable combat than GW2.
Nor did I ever stand still in WoW, with any class. GW2 wasn't any different to me than any other traditional MMO, except that if I double tap in a direction before someone cast an ability at me, it would dodge that ability. Aside from that it was just like playing WoW with a bunch of instant cast abilities.
TERA's combat, It emphasizes skill and tactful play.
this is so wrong...... please stop saying this. Tera is already old enough for people to play long enough to realise that was false advertising. Theres no skill needed here, the person with superior equipment wins in the blink of an eye.
TERA's combat is the best so far in my opinion. It emphasizes skill and tactful play. Its very fast paced at 60, and not spammy like GW2 for example, but if you use the wrong ability at the wrong time it will severely screw you because of animation lock on some abilities which is risk/reward (something we need more of in MMO's today).
So knowing when to use abilities is key, you have the aiming component which is greater than that of GW2 or ESO (EQNext is yet to be determined). You also have more abilities to juggle than them all. Limited action set is great in its own way. But I feel like the limited action set needs to be increased to about 10-12 abilities instead of 7-8.
OUt of the games mentioned by the OP though, I feel EQ: Next will be the greater of the three. At least thats what I hope since I have no interest in the other two what so ever.
Fun how GW2 has a minimum of 11 abilities, plus dodge and the weapon swap.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by donpopuki I believe the rooted combat of days past was due to technological limitations. Personally I would like combat to be more like Devil Maycry, God of War or Vindicus. I feel more engaged in those games, the hits feel more substantial. I think GW2 comes close to that sort of combat which is why I like it but after a while it becomes tiresome due to the lack of variety. I think EQN's solution to this problem is allowing multiclassing. I like readjusting my tactics to overcome a challenge.
SWG didn't root in combat, so I'd say it wasn't about Tech.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I love mobile combat but one thing I would like to see changed is to add some stationary incentive.
Casters or Ranged classes should take a decent accuracy or damage debuff when casting on the move to represent reduced accuracy from trying to aim while on the run. It will also add a risk vs reward of standing still to cast/shoot for more dmg, higher crits, etc.
This would also give a slight advantage to melee for having that range disadvantage, swinging a sword on the run is much more simple, and even advantageous from the momentum if used right as compared to trying to run away from a sword wielder while trying to launch a fireball or shoot an arrow (kiting).
As for reallly powerful spells, or AOE spells/abilities those should root players as the drawback aside from just huge mana costs, this would help reduce AOE insta death fields in large group combat since whoever begins casting their AOEs first are now susceptible to being sniped, charged, CC'd or even counter-AOE'd since they will be static in a world with largely mobile combat.
There's no way to go back. It really bothered me in Path of the Exile that I had to stop to use abilities. It feels very clunky. Especially for melee characters.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
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You just gotta stop making references to EQ1. This game is not gonna be ANYTHING like EQ1.
And speaking of EQ1. People should give it a shot again.
Hate me all you want, but if I'm playing an MMORPG I would actually prefer the good old click to move system with many many skills to choose from on my bar. I would like to see that the player quality is again dependent on wise skill usage instead of his ability to dodge.
Further more, I think that this fluid combat that is best represented by GW2 (but also SWTOR and some other modern MMORPGs) looks quite stupid. People jumping and running circles around each other while fighting... It just looks completely lame and I think stuff like that should never really come into MMORPGs. Pressing buttons 1-6 + whatever else you have binded, while trying to move your character with WASD, jump and evade is also something that deeply annoys me... while on the other hand, the only thing you really use your mouse for is rotating your camera and targeting... Yeah I can see someone quoting me and telling me to buy Razer Naga here, so don't do it, I already know your answer.
If I want fast, twitchy, action combat that rewards my ability to move and aim, I'll go back to playing Quake, but please, keep that shit out of RPGs :S
If I want the game to reward me for wisely using the skills of my character to react to how my enemy plays and what he plays, without having to focus on terrible character/combat controls, I would like to have an MMORPG that does that.
Action combat + skill mashing just don't go together very well in my opinion.
I guess you missed that EQ:N won't have levels and that progression will be mostly horizontal (gaining new classes and skills). Progressing in EQ:N will probably not be what you want.
EQ2 is one of the few classical MMOs where I don't feel the need to dodge sometimes (an issue I have since I played GW2/NWN). I guess the casting while moving is one of the reason why.
This.
I love both rooted and free from combat. Depends on what mood I'm in. I do find the free movement action type combat more fun, mainly because I'm used to that and find it easier.
Yeah, I think somewhere between Vanguard and Age of Conan would be perfect for me.
I like mobility, but I hate bunny hopping. I liked that Age of Conan restricted bunny hopping by having it linked to stamina. So if you were dashing around and jumping around, you didn't have enough stamina to attack.
Did not like the free moving combat of GW2 at all.
Absolutely terrible for PvP.
PvP fights in GW2 was basically just people running around all over the place like chickens with their heads cut off spamming attacks whenever in range because there is no consequence for doing so and no reason to stand still.
Attacks rooting the player means there are consequences to your actions so you have to time and plan your attacks.
You know, use skill and tactics.
non moving combat feels so much like the civil war...
I really like combat where placing and movement is paret of the show. You can also add Wildstar to the list.. However, i also like dedicated rolls, and thats where both GW2 and EQN seem to fail..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
As someone who started in MUDs, paper RPG and turn based games I should probably choose the old rooted combat. I would give that answer if these games hadn't dumbed down combat to the point where a trained monkey can do it. The combat pacing is all off for rooted combat in most MMORPG too.
If they slowed down combat and add a lot of depth to the strategy involved then I'd much prefer rooted. If you had to think more than just react.
If you are going to have fast paced, reactive combat you are basically making your combat into an FPS or arcade game in which case movement based is definitely the way to go.
I really like gw2 movement however for a game that requires you to actually move they have nerfed it by limiting to amount of movement that you can actually do!
Acrobats do not do 2 moves then wait 30 seconds before they can do any more moves. Also, so many skills are available that lock the char in place, totally defeating the whole movement in combat concept!
TERA's combat is the best so far in my opinion. It emphasizes skill and tactful play. Its very fast paced at 60, and not spammy like GW2 for example, but if you use the wrong ability at the wrong time it will severely screw you because of animation lock on some abilities which is risk/reward (something we need more of in MMO's today).
So knowing when to use abilities is key, you have the aiming component which is greater than that of GW2 or ESO (EQNext is yet to be determined). You also have more abilities to juggle than them all. Limited action set is great in its own way. But I feel like the limited action set needs to be increased to about 10-12 abilities instead of 7-8.
OUt of the games mentioned by the OP though, I feel EQ: Next will be the greater of the three. At least thats what I hope since I have no interest in the other two what so ever.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I don't mind the "standing" combat but I really like Tera's combat. what I don't ever like is bunny hopping or constantly rolling and rolling and rolling out of the way.
I think combat still needs to look good.
People complain about animations all the time but rarely do I see people complain about how ridiculous some of these "jump out of the way/roll out of the way" systems are.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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When I logged back in to EQ1, I was like "how the hell did I ever love to play this <insert rant on MMO with outdated graphics and content here>" ?
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Roll a Sith Assassin and go down the Darkness tree (tanking tree). Its almost all instants. I'm not a huge combat fan in mmos, but when I played swtor, this character was a blast. Highly mobile, knockbacks and pulls, some very cool animations and the double bladed lightsaber is always nice.
since i havent played EQN i dont know how that one feels.
AS for GW2 and TESO, I love how moveing in combat feels in GW2, i just love it because the characters even in combat they go with the flow, very naturally. In TESO, however, it doesnt feel as good as Skyrim. I already said this before but moving in TESO felt like Defiance. I didnt like that at all. I want to believe that it was because its beta but im sure they're going to be the same launch animations too
Vanguard, can cast while moving.
DCUO, action combat.
Both games released well before GW2. Both games, in my opinion, had more enjoyable combat than GW2.
Nor did I ever stand still in WoW, with any class. GW2 wasn't any different to me than any other traditional MMO, except that if I double tap in a direction before someone cast an ability at me, it would dodge that ability. Aside from that it was just like playing WoW with a bunch of instant cast abilities.
this is so wrong...... please stop saying this. Tera is already old enough for people to play long enough to realise that was false advertising. Theres no skill needed here, the person with superior equipment wins in the blink of an eye.
Fun how GW2 has a minimum of 11 abilities, plus dodge and the weapon swap.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
SWG didn't root in combat, so I'd say it wasn't about Tech.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I love mobile combat but one thing I would like to see changed is to add some stationary incentive.
Casters or Ranged classes should take a decent accuracy or damage debuff when casting on the move to represent reduced accuracy from trying to aim while on the run. It will also add a risk vs reward of standing still to cast/shoot for more dmg, higher crits, etc.
This would also give a slight advantage to melee for having that range disadvantage, swinging a sword on the run is much more simple, and even advantageous from the momentum if used right as compared to trying to run away from a sword wielder while trying to launch a fireball or shoot an arrow (kiting).
As for reallly powerful spells, or AOE spells/abilities those should root players as the drawback aside from just huge mana costs, this would help reduce AOE insta death fields in large group combat since whoever begins casting their AOEs first are now susceptible to being sniped, charged, CC'd or even counter-AOE'd since they will be static in a world with largely mobile combat.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky