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What's up with the price of gold?

PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member
As of today, the 5 day low is 5.14 and the high is 6.90 for 100 gems. When I started playing in the spring it was under 3.00 before the whole Scarlett invasions thing started. Can anyone explain what' up with the price of gold and where this is heading? How did it get this way?

Comments

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 414Member Uncommon
    Well, one conspiracy theory is that the higher the gold/gems ratio, the more gems are purchased and converted. If ArenaNet has a hand in that i don't know, but it''s in their favor.
  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Porto AlegrePosts: 1,020Member Uncommon

    More people buying gems with gold.

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    It means that more people are trying to go from gold to gems rather than paying RL money for them.  Essentially as everyone starts building up stockpiles of gold in the game, the gold becomes devalued.  Its only going to get worse from this point onwards, which is good for people wanting to buy gold with real money, but not so good for people wanting to use gold and avoid paying real money.
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,795Member Uncommon

    Gold is easier to make than ever before. That's why.

    Also, many have already purchased their T3 armors, commander books and the other biggest one-time gold sinks.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PWN_FACE
    As of today, the 5 day low is 5.14 and the high is 6.90 for 100 gems. When I started playing in the spring it was under 3.00 before the whole Scarlett invasions thing started. Can anyone explain what' up with the price of gold and where this is heading? How did it get this way?

     

    As the ageing playerbase stockpiles more and more gold with nothing to spend it on other than gems coupled with fewer new/old players converting gems to gold the gold for gems ratio rises. This in turn devalues gold because the gems/gold market has an excess of gold it needs to shift. Trading is one sided. I bought gold with gems about 4/5 months ago and it was 1.5g/100 gems so its jumped up massively. I think this is due to the LS as players are grinding the champions for gold which is flooding the market but that's just a theory. Also you need a steady supply of new players buying gold with gems and then sinking it into the game on WP costs, trait books, cultural armour, repair costs etc etc... and that isn't happening.

     

    You need a fairly equal amount of trading on both sides to keep the gold prices stable but as we've seen in other games this is very hard to do so inflation is inevitable but also natural its just keeping it sane and not letting it get out of hand as you'll encourage illegal RMT outside of the game and we know what happens don't we Lineage 2 fans? inflation is then compounded and new players will find it nigh on impossible to get into the game without laying out the money for gems to convert to gold or buy gold from illegal RMT. 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by timtrack
    Well, one conspiracy theory is that the higher the gold/gems ratio, the more gems are purchased and converted. If ArenaNet has a hand in that i don't know, but it''s in their favor.

    ... but you'd have to buy less gems to get the same amount of gold. :T

    And it is CONSTANTLY trending to more gold per gem, so it'd be like Arenanet is consistently giving people more gold in a sort of perpetual sale, unlike any other gem store item.

    Oddly enough, the gold-> conversion is around the same rate that gold inflation is happening as players get more gold.

    But you're probably right that a price-fixing conspiracy theory is far more logical.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    Copper ore also went from 7 copper last April to 57 copper.

    Iron ore also went from 8 copper last April to 1 silver 88 copper.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • goboygogoboygo Posts: 784Member Uncommon

    Your just seeing the rotten core of RMT games.  Its pretty much a cancer now that has spread to all games.  Gone are the days of spending one low price to get all the content you can handle.  It now just depends on how rotten the core is, sometimes you see it early in games sometimes later but it always shows itself eventually.

    "Fighting Internet stupidity one post at at time"
  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Lets leave the RMT conspiracy theories at the door please.

    The rate at which players can aquire gold has increased a lot since the start of the game. On the flipside, the longer someone plays, the less things there are to spend the gold on, so it loses value. The inflation in gold price is just the expected consequence to that, as the various gold sinks in the game are not enough to balance the higher incomes.

  • SandvichSandvich Sterling, VAPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    It means that more people are trying to go from gold to gems rather than paying RL money for them.  Essentially as everyone starts building up stockpiles of gold in the game, the gold becomes devalued.  Its only going to get worse from this point onwards, which is good for people wanting to buy gold with real money, but not so good for people wanting to use gold and avoid paying real money.

     

    But, conversely, the more that people go from gold to gems the faster gold will be removed from the economy as well, so there will be a stabilizing point once again. When it settles, the mindset will settle with it. If you're used to paying (for example) 5 gold for 100 gems but now have to pay 10g for 100 gems it may sound bad on the surface until you realize you're making twice as much  gold on average as you were before.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by goboygo

    Your just seeing the rotten core of RMT games.  Its pretty much a cancer now that has spread to all games.  Gone are the days of spending one low price to get all the content you can handle.  It now just depends on how rotten the core is, sometimes you see it early in games sometimes later but it always shows itself eventually.

    I see no content being sold in the cash shop.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sandvich
    Originally posted by evilastro
    It means that more people are trying to go from gold to gems rather than paying RL money for them.  Essentially as everyone starts building up stockpiles of gold in the game, the gold becomes devalued.  Its only going to get worse from this point onwards, which is good for people wanting to buy gold with real money, but not so good for people wanting to use gold and avoid paying real money.

     

    But, conversely, the more that people go from gold to gems the faster gold will be removed from the economy as well, so there will be a stabilizing point once again. When it settles, the mindset will settle with it. If you're used to paying (for example) 5 gold for 100 gems but now have to pay 10g for 100 gems it may sound bad on the surface until you realize you're making twice as much  gold on average as you were before.

     

    Eventually players will run out of things to buy in the shop so will slow in buying gems with gold thus the gold inflation will continue unless there are higher sinks in the game, like raising wp, armour repair, BLTP and WvWvW siege weapons charges, if this happens though new players with be driven to purchase gems with real money and that might be a bit of a put off if you've just laid out £30 for the game. It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO, though I hope Ncsoft isn't involved as they don't have a great track record, Lineage 2 economy was ridiculous so much so players resorted to outside sources of RMT which of course just made the problem worse, lol.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO

    No kidding. How do you balance a system to prevent players from hoarding piles of gold while still giving them enough so it feels worth their time. Knowing that it will never truely be "enough" in a players mind ...

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO

    No kidding. How do you balance a system to prevent players from hoarding piles of gold while still giving them enough so it feels worth their time. Knowing that it will never truely be "enough" in a players mind ...

     

    Bloody greedy players image. Though being serious CCP supposedly have a full time economist employed to keep EVE's economy reigned in. 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO

    No kidding. How do you balance a system to prevent players from hoarding piles of gold while still giving them enough so it feels worth their time. Knowing that it will never truely be "enough" in a players mind ...

     

    Bloody greedy players image. Though being serious CCP supposedly have a full time economist employed to keep EVE's economy reigned in. 

    So does Arenanet. The problem remains though. Players want lots'a gold. They become grumpy when you don't give it to them. They also become grumpy when you do and it loses its value to inflation. 

    You just can't win ...

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    Eventually players will run out of things to buy in the shop so will slow in buying gems with gold thus the gold inflation will continue unless there are higher sinks in the game, like raising wp, armour repair, BLTP and WvWvW siege weapons charges, if this happens though new players with be driven to purchase gems with real money and that might be a bit of a put off if you've just laid out £30 for the game. It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO, though I hope Ncsoft isn't involved as they don't have a great track record, Lineage 2 economy was ridiculous so much so players resorted to outside sources of RMT which of course just made the problem worse, lol.

     

    Unless, of course, ANet keeps coming up with new and interesting things to add to the shop. PvP finishers seem to be selling well and new ones are being introduces regularly, as are new armor skins etc. If the shop sat static you'd have a real point.

     

    The challenge will be to see if they can keep things rolling through the shop that entice people to buy regularly.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    Eventually players will run out of things to buy in the shop so will slow in buying gems with gold thus the gold inflation will continue unless there are higher sinks in the game, like raising wp, armour repair, BLTP and WvWvW siege weapons charges, if this happens though new players with be driven to purchase gems with real money and that might be a bit of a put off if you've just laid out £30 for the game. It must be a nightmare trying to curb inflation in an MMO, though I hope Ncsoft isn't involved as they don't have a great track record, Lineage 2 economy was ridiculous so much so players resorted to outside sources of RMT which of course just made the problem worse, lol.

     

    Unless, of course, ANet keeps coming up with new and interesting things to add to the shop. PvP finishers seem to be selling well and new ones are being introduces regularly, as are new armor skins etc. If the shop sat static you'd have a real point.

     

    The challenge will be to see if they can keep things rolling through the shop that entice people to buy regularly.

     

    Its still inevitable as there is only so much you can sell in the shop that isn't a necessity, like upgrade consumables, this is how f2p games fund themselves. GW2 has no upgrade necessities, though with extra infusions in gear they could make an appearance but that would put them firmly into f2p cash shop territory and they'd still have a box price. I imagine crafting boosters might be selling well at the moment. They need a good turnaround of new players or churn as its known to balance out the inflation or like I said the gold sinks in the game will have to rise. 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Volkon

     

    Unless, of course, ANet keeps coming up with new and interesting things to add to the shop. PvP finishers seem to be selling well and new ones are being introduces regularly, as are new armor skins etc. If the shop sat static you'd have a real point.

     

    The challenge will be to see if they can keep things rolling through the shop that entice people to buy regularly.

     

    Its still inevitable as there is only so much you can sell in the shop that isn't a necessity, like upgrade consumables, this is how f2p games fund themselves. GW2 has no upgrade necessities, though with extra infusions in gear they could make an appearance but that would put them firmly into f2p cash shop territory and they'd still have a box price. I imagine crafting boosters might be selling well at the moment. They need a good turnaround of new players or churn as its known to balance out the inflation or like I said the gold sinks in the game will have to rise. 

    Cosmetics, my friend, cosmetics. New skins for armors and for street clothes, new items for future housing and guild halls that are decorative in nature, cape skins (they're working on capes, just having technical issues with all the different models), different finishers, new dye packs, new minipets, new holiday items... the sky really is the limit if they have creative enough minds working on things. New gathering tools with new effects. The current bag and bank storage additions will always find a use. There's plenty of items they can come up with that are completely P2W-free in every way.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Volkon

     

    Unless, of course, ANet keeps coming up with new and interesting things to add to the shop. PvP finishers seem to be selling well and new ones are being introduces regularly, as are new armor skins etc. If the shop sat static you'd have a real point.

     

    The challenge will be to see if they can keep things rolling through the shop that entice people to buy regularly.

     

    Its still inevitable as there is only so much you can sell in the shop that isn't a necessity, like upgrade consumables, this is how f2p games fund themselves. GW2 has no upgrade necessities, though with extra infusions in gear they could make an appearance but that would put them firmly into f2p cash shop territory and they'd still have a box price. I imagine crafting boosters might be selling well at the moment. They need a good turnaround of new players or churn as its known to balance out the inflation or like I said the gold sinks in the game will have to rise. 

    Cosmetics, my friend, cosmetics. New skins for armors and for street clothes, new items for future housing and guild halls that are decorative in nature, cape skins (they're working on capes, just having technical issues with all the different models), different finishers, new dye packs, new minipets, new holiday items... the sky really is the limit if they have creative enough minds working on things. New gathering tools with new effects. The current bag and bank storage additions will always find a use. There's plenty of items they can come up with that are completely P2W-free in every way.

     

    Seriously Volkon I've played enough cash shop games over the past 6+ years to know cosmetics really will not draw in enough revenue unless there is a massive churn of players like DOTA2 and unless Arenanet drop the box price that ain't gonna happen, so the sky is not the limit. You have to have some form of forced income to keep revenue flowing. TSW has Issues which are DLC, scenario packs and premium status, LoTRO has subs, expac's and quest packs, EQ2 has subs and expansions, Aion has upgrade consumables and gold packs (basically subs with veteran rewards), TERA has upgrade consumables (Alkahest and Spellbind) and club packs (gives you lots of shop items) and that's only the Freemium and B2P games I haven't touched on how F2P make their money like LoL Champions.

     

    You need to have something that blocks the player playing past a certain point and they can only pass that point with money. GW2 dosen't have this other than gold being a bit tough to get early on the game but I can see them moving in that direction eventually they will have to if they don't release an expac of start down the DLC route revenue will keep on dwindling.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    Seriously Volkon I've played enough cash shop games over the past 6+ years to know cosmetics really will not draw in enough revenue unless there is a massive churn of players like DOTA2 and unless Arenanet drop the box price that ain't gonna happen, so the sky is not the limit. You have to have some form of forced income to keep revenue flowing. TSW has Issues which are DLC, scenario packs and premium status, LoTRO has subs, expac's and quest packs, EQ2 has subs and expansions, Aion has upgrade consumables and gold packs (basically subs with veteran rewards), TERA has upgrade consumables (Alkahest and Spellbind) and club packs (gives you lots of shop items) and that's only the Freemium and B2P games I haven't touched on how F2P make their money like LoL Champions.

     

    You need to have something that blocks the player playing past a certain point and they can only pass that point with money. GW2 dosen't have this other than gold being a bit tough to get early on the game but I can see them moving in that direction eventually they will have to if they don't release an expac of start down the DLC route revenue will keep on dwindling.

     

    How much of your experience in games other than GW2 with cash shops has been in games like GW2 with a cash shop? Yeah, none. For games that depend on vertical progression no, a cosmetic cash shop won't be nearly sufficient. However GW2 is built heavily on the cosmetic and will be adding in the future things that reinforce the cosmetic aspects (such as guild halls, cloaks, possibly housing, etc.) which will entice players to purchase limited time goodies. 

     

    The problem is that you've let yourself be brainwashed into thinking the way other MMOs did things successfully is the only way to do things successfully in an MMO. This is evident by the first statement in your second paragraph... "You need to have something that blocks the player playing past a certain point and they can only pass that point with money."  This is false. You don't need this. Other games have done it and some done it with great success, but that doesn't mean you need it. Here we are, some sixteen months after the release of GW2 and it's still going strong without any tollgates being added. 

    Just an aside, none of the games above (to my knowledge) was designed from the ground up, from day 1, to be a subscription-free game with a cosmetic cash shop as the continuing source of revenue from existing players. It makes a huge difference if you design the game that way out of the gate and make it an integral part of the overall game philosophy.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     You need to have something that blocks the player playing past a certain point and they can only pass that point with money. 

    That can backfire rather quickly, especially in this market where people throw a hissy fit at first sight of such purchases, and are so mistrusting of cash shops that when a game comes around that doesn't have those blocks, they start making up new szenarios and definitions just so they can continue to bash it. See the countless "Is it p2w" discussions in here.

    With dozens of other games to play as an alternative, designing cash shop items to be mandatory nets you a short profit first, then a long term loss as players wander off to other games that don't f*ck them over. Well, most people do. Some just never learn.

    The trick is to design items that aren't mandatory, but desireable, which is not exactly easy, but also less likely to drive people off in frustration.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     You need to have something that blocks the player playing past a certain point and they can only pass that point with money. 

    That can backfire rather quickly, especially in this market where people throw a hissy fit at first sight of such purchases, and are so mistrusting of cash shops that when a game comes around that doesn't have those blocks, they start making up new szenarios and definitions just so they can continue to bash it. See the countless "Is it p2w" discussions in here.

    With dozens of other games to play as an alternative, designing cash shop items to be mandatory nets you a short profit first, then a long term loss as players wander off to other games that don't f*ck them over. Well, most people do. Some just never learn.

    The trick is to design items that aren't mandatory, but desireable, which is not exactly easy, but also less likely to drive people off in frustration.

     

    All successful F2P games like ROM, Atlantica, Perfect World, LoL, SMITE, HON, etc... and all successful Freemium games like I mentioned all have content you cannot touch that is behind a pay wall. Whether that is expacs, DLC, upgrade consumables, boosts, special elite areas, that's how they make money. Modern MMO's have learned that churn is where the money is, people come in play until they hit a wall bung some money at the game until they are bored and then move onto another game, that's the beauty of freemium and F2P for many gamers, though not the more vocal around these boards I agree.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    I wasn't really looking to make another "is GW2 p2w?" thread. I don't think it's pay-to-win at all. You can buy gems and save yourself a lot of time getting gear, so it depends on your definition. That has been discussed amply in many other threads. 

     

    In this thread, I was just asking about the price of gold and it's fluctuation, especially in relationship to gems. I'm just wondering about game's economics.

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