I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
So in other words...
I want a mansion but not have to work a day in my life for it.
I want to take home a Lamberguinie by just walking into the dealership and just given the keys and sent on my merry way.
I want a personal chef to cook me a five star dinner but not pay him a nickle.
It amazes me how people expect a free games from companies the spent numerous years developing the game.
The biggest joke in the entire MMO genre is how people absolutely flip out over a game that has a box and sub while ignoring the fact that free games are charging $100 for founders packs, which is basically an entire annual sub for WildStar. And yes, if you want to play the "free" game when it comes out, you have to pay it. (When it comes out = when you can play the game. "Launch" is a meaningless term these days - you know it's true). Don't even get me started on the kind of money grubbing some of the kickstarters are doing (yes, I get all those emails).
The payment model hasn't changed. "Free" games simply charge you more for in game perks and then bombard you every time you load up the launcher.
Just load up the launcher to GW2 (not even a free box), Neverwinter, PS2, EQ2, LOL, SMITE ... you are constantly barraged with crap they want to sell you.
Here's a FACT: Free games are WAY more focused on your money than sub games. Take that to the bank.
As far as the OP's question, I predict that WildStar will be viable with a sub fee.
And here is another fact, $100 Founders Pack no way is even close to to years sub, which is $150 and you are not even calculating the retail of the bock which knocks it up to around $200.
Another fun fact is that these Founders Parck are entirely optional and now way mandatory unlike the retail+sub method.
Also GW2 does not "barrage" you with the crap they are trying to sell. Yes they have advertisements in the gem store but that is why you open it up to begin with.
If you're gonna hate on the F2P/B2P, at least be creditable going about it.
I don't think it will last as sub based.. i think it will start as sub based and then move into f2p and fail lol
This is probably the case. Except for the "fail" part. I don't see many top shelf MMOs shutting down completely after switching to F2P. If anything, should the game goes F2P, there will be a significant uptick in the number of registered accounts and players. Then, the game will probably churn along just like most other free games, with people coming and going without any barriers.
Wildstar looks to be the 1st sub based game that I will pay a sub. Last game I paid a sub on was WoW. Everyone that wants to play a MMO should not have a problem paying for a $60 box. Hell you pay $60 for Xbox or Playstation games, even FPS games. How is it different to have to pay for a $60 box for a MMO. If you end up not liking the game after the free 30 days, just unsub the game. Whenever I get a chance to play Wildstar, I am hoping it is as good as all the videos are so far.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Not sure, if the game is good enough and ends up maintaining enough of a population subbed to keep it profitable. I don't see a reason for it to go F2P or B2P, since these options are risky.
The biggest joke in the entire MMO genre is how people absolutely flip out over a game that has a box and sub while ignoring the fact that free games are charging $100 for founders packs, which is basically an entire annual sub for WildStar. And yes, if you want to play the "free" game when it comes out, you have to pay it. (When it comes out = when you can play the game. "Launch" is a meaningless term these days - you know it's true). Don't even get me started on the kind of money grubbing some of the kickstarters are doing (yes, I get all those emails).
The payment model hasn't changed. "Free" games simply charge you more for in game perks and then bombard you every time you load up the launcher.
Just load up the launcher to GW2 (not even a free box), Neverwinter, PS2, EQ2, LOL, SMITE ... you are constantly barraged with crap they want to sell you.
Here's a FACT: Free games are WAY more focused on your money than sub games. Take that to the bank.
As far as the OP's question, I predict that WildStar will be viable with a sub fee.
I'm certainly in the camp of hoping the subscription model will remain viable. However, it's only hope and is certainly prone to shatter once the content locusts move on from this game.
While I agree that free-to-play games are much more focused on making money, the style and degree of coercion within each varies. I'm not sure that Founder's pack sales are used to regain the cost of lost subscriptions, or would be subscriptions for that matter. I think it's charging for near necessary or necessary commodity to the enjoyment of the game. They have to be focused on this, though, because their game couldn't be sold for whatever reason.
So far, Wildstar beta has been for actual testing. So far, it shows signs of being a great game with loads of content - endgame and otherwise.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
So unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably noticed how many games are being relased as free to play and how many that used to be subscription based are going free to play with a subscription option. There are probably all of two MMOs out right now that maintain a subscription model and nothing else. Do you think that Wildstar will be the third, or will it eventually switch to a buy to play option similar to Guild Wars 2 or The Secret World or go fully free to play like Rift or TERA?
What's everyones predictions?
It's more 50/50...I know people that won't even touch a f2 game...and vice versa.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
He has an sms code, but where did he get that sms code from? One way or another it was paid for, meaning that either way money is being spent, going to the devs or the publishers.
Now as for you, what with your "subscription elitism", you are driving a wedge in the playerbase and the developers. It is people like you who look down on games that are free to play, people who play free to play games, etc. who are the true problem. Games are supposed to be about having fun, and different people are willing to spend different amounts of money to have said fun. By thinking that people who play f2p games are at fault for a bad game industry, you are alienating them and the devs who make f2p games.
If you want to discuss a problem, discuss the recent rash of copy and paste military shooters, not subscription models. F2P, B2P, and P2P are all viable models, each with their own advantages and disadvantages; none are superior to the other. Why must you make people who like payement optionsthat you don't like feel bad. Seriously, what have they ever done to you? What has any one individual person who likes f2p ever done to you? Have they ever insulted you for liking p2p games? Have they ever said that your favorite p2p game is garbage just because it is p2p? Have they ever said that you and your liking p2p games is ruining the mmo industry?
So unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably noticed how many games are being relased as free to play and how many that used to be subscription based are going free to play with a subscription option. There are probably all of two MMOs out right now that maintain a subscription model and nothing else. Do you think that Wildstar will be the third, or will it eventually switch to a buy to play option similar to Guild Wars 2 or The Secret World or go fully free to play like Rift or TERA?
What's everyones predictions?
It's more 50/50...I know people that won't even touch a f2 game...and vice versa.
I know. After entering college, I had to budget my money, which meant no more subscription MMO (and I was playing WoW at the time and loving it). Imagine my glee when many MMOs were either being released or turned f2p. After that I stopped playing p2p MMOs; GW2 is the first MMO I have spent money on in a long time, and I have had no regrets. If Wildstar is converted from p2p to b2p, I would probably buy it instantly no ifs and or buts.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
I think what he is getting at is that the more developers focus on making money off the F2P population, the less time they focus on improving game mechanics and more time finding new ways of making money from the F2P user base.
In my opinion, I would rather have the developers just focus on making games better than wasting time on all these nonsense micro-transactions.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
I'm not stuck in the past. I'm not saying that subscription is the only viable model. And furthermore, just because things have changed doesn't mean they've changed for the better.
How many of these free to play games actually focus on the game? How many of them focus on just letting you in and enjoying the game without concern for the next hot deal in their cash shop? They've all but programmed feverish car salesmen into the game. Sure, not all of them are like that, but it is a problem inherit to the model. It may be profitable, but ti's annoying as hell to be given a sales pitch every single login and on every single screen.
I'm absolutely fine with buy to play and even bought the Secret World to support that model. I want an entry fee. I want to pay for the game I'm playing and know that when I log in, each person there is on an even playing field. I'm not here to subsidize other players because they can't afford to buy a game.
If any of that makes me stuck in the past, then so be it.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
I think what he is getting at is that the more developers focus on making money off the F2P population, the less time they focus on improving game mechanics and more time finding new ways of making money from the F2P user base.
In my opinion, I would rather have the developers just focus on making games better than wasting time on all these nonsense micro-transactions.
Thank you, that is exactly my point.
In my experience, free games reinvest in profit making strategies, finding new commodities to limit and sell. They have to. It's their lifeblood.
Guild Wars 2 has a good model and I supported it while I played the game. Unfortunately, they decided they went a different route than I liked. Support ended and I don't log in.
There's certainly a case to be made for the failure of subscriptions in the post-WoW generation. Yet, I don't think it's inherent to that model. I think it's because those games made the wrong design decisions and consumers will not hesitate to leave a game. However, that's a vulnerability to any game.
Originally posted by CIB3 I will not play it as B2P or P2P. I only play it as F2P with possibility to buy things with sms codes. But those things must be not mandatory to enjoy playing the game. I think that this is the best, if not the only way to have a successful MMO game with a large player base.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
I think what he is getting at is that the more developers focus on making money off the F2P population, the less time they focus on improving game mechanics and more time finding new ways of making money from the F2P user base.
In my opinion, I would rather have the developers just focus on making games better than wasting time on all these nonsense micro-transactions.
Thank you, that is exactly my point.
In my experience, free games reinvest in profit making strategies, finding new commodities to limit and sell. They have to. It's their lifeblood.
Guild Wars 2 has a good model and I supported it while I played the game. Unfortunately, they decided they went a different route than I liked. Support ended and I don't log in.
There's certainly a case to be made for the failure of subscriptions in the post-WoW generation. Yet, I don't think it's inherent to that model. I think it's because those games made the wrong design decisions and consumers will not hesitate to leave a game. However, that's a vulnerability to any game.
While your last post is something I agree with...it sure wasn't your "point" when you attacked him in your first post. Other than the mmo parasites that pay for nothing, I think most people will pay for any game they love to play. The last 5 or so years has just made many gamers gun shy about buying into a game though. That isn't the fault of the player imo but the games being made.
The biggest joke in the entire MMO genre is how people absolutely flip out over a game that has a box and sub while ignoring the fact that free games are charging $100 for founders packs, which is basically an entire annual sub for WildStar. And yes, if you want to play the "free" game when it comes out, you have to pay it. (When it comes out = when you can play the game. "Launch" is a meaningless term these days - you know it's true). Don't even get me started on the kind of money grubbing some of the kickstarters are doing (yes, I get all those emails).
The payment model hasn't changed. "Free" games simply charge you more for in game perks and then bombard you every time you load up the launcher.
Just load up the launcher to GW2 (not even a free box), Neverwinter, PS2, EQ2, LOL, SMITE ... you are constantly barraged with crap they want to sell you.
Here's a FACT: Free games are WAY more focused on your money than sub games. Take that to the bank.
As far as the OP's question, I predict that WildStar will be viable with a sub fee.
And here is another fact, $100 Founders Pack no way is even close to to years sub, which is $150 and you are not even calculating the retail of the bock which knocks it up to around $200.
Another fun fact is that these Founders Parck are entirely optional and now way mandatory unlike the retail+sub method.
Also GW2 does not "barrage" you with the crap they are trying to sell. Yes they have advertisements in the gem store but that is why you open it up to begin with.
If you're gonna hate on the F2P/B2P, at least be creditable going about it.
One years sub to WildStar 9.99 a month if you choose the annual option). Not EXACTLY $100, but I didn't say exactly in my post.
The founders pack is NOT optional if you want to play the game when it's available. Fact.
To test your "GW2 does not 'barrage'" you with stuff to buy on the launcher, I decided to update and fire it up and Gem store ads are nearly every third news item. The other games I mentioned do the same thing. Fact.
Now, to avoid any confusion: I play plenty of B2P/F2P games including tons of GW2, Neverwinter and the likes. I didn't say they were terrible games. The issue is that a new crop of MMO's are "perfecting" the F2P money machine and are able to come across as "F2P" but are obvious money grabs on hyped players, who are paying HUGE dollars for founders packs and then not getting near their money's worth. I'm so thankful WildStar did not do this.
What I was doing was not hating on F2P/B2P I was making an argument that these so called "non-sub games" are much more concerned about grabbing the cash out of your wallet than a sub game does, where the payment is clear up front and you get a complete game for one price. The cash shop is NOT optional for the type of player that wants to get the most out of their experience, in which case the sub-fee/F2P argument is irreleant since they both charge players. The only difference is that a sub game doesn't constantly barrage you with ads, new shiny things - and even worse, items that improve your character gather, power, armor, etc.
A game designed like WildStar is best suited for a subscription since ultimately built to offer a complete MMO experience. Carbine could have easily done a money grab with all of their housing items, costumes, pets, mounts etc and put them in a microtransaction store. However, there are ZERO AAA MMO's that are sub free that doesn't sell in-game boosts. (This includes GW2, which houses many types of player boosts in chests that require cash shop purchase).
Thus, my opinion (just an opinion) is that WildStar will be completely viable with a sub since I know I'm not alone in my feelings about so-called "Free" games that focus more on your dollar than the sub games do.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley I thought this game was F2P. The graphics certainly lead one to that assumption.
troll trying to hard?
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
Here's an idea for a cash shop / sub hybrid model that I'd like to see.
Cash shop has items like exp boosts (only to the max allowed) / additional bag/bank slot (only to the max allowed) / access to dye vendor / item customization.
The Sub gives you everything offered in the shop (so obviously the shop isn't built for whaling, it's built to encourage people to sub, but allows F2P).
But here's the kicker, if you have a sub, the cash shop disappear from your game and all ads for it. So playing as a sub player gives you the benefit of having everything and no ads directing you to the shop, and if you don't want to sub, you can play for free and buy things at your leisure.
That might be the problem players have with cash shops, it's that they're built to get players to spend far more than a sub would and therefore encourages devs to make more things available via cash shop. What if the cash shop was designed to get people closer to subbing rather than spending a ton?
Especially when 15 dollars is not needed, like why can't it be at least 5 dollars a month least that'd make it easier for people who don't have that much time to play or even not enough time to play an hour that month...stay subscribed.
My signature really. Now p2p can exist but 15 dollars alone doesn't make sense any more, hell even if 10 at least or something. But Wildstar can last longer than Tera and SWTOR maybe, if they have free expansions, least then they can say your 15 dollars a month is going towards expansions.
Most niche games who are going for niche numbers can be P2P because they are going for niche numbers. I mean just calling it how I see and experience it, until I see more mainstream MMORPGs that aren't going for niche numbers(post WoW it made it in time) do something they I may lean on the side of Wildstar and other upcoming p2p games being viable but as of now no game is nor has unless niche and not mainstream...is viable.
I think what also makes me really against P2P is simply put in my profile, and the OP went on a rant that really was needed IMO, because stuff you said goes through my mind and has went through my mind for awhile even before my constant posts on why P2P really isn't any better than F2P and B2P games in reality. So many false claims and bashing the player base that doesn't like p2p games.
I just saw someone say but not word for word that people who don't play p2p games are stupid and don't know any better...it's earlier in this thread. Maybe my fault is even with my sig I'm implying that people who say that have no common sense, but honestly I believe they just don't have any sense at that moment and aren't stupid but more so ignorant for making such claims.
Though unfortunately this website has the most active posters who are [Pro] P2P, they outnumber vocally on this website but I know those who agree and understand that P2P is honestly no better than F2P and B2P and hardly as justifiable these days, are out there.
Tldr: To answer the question, no not really, not convinced but i could be wrong which is fine but history and just overall what happens all the time lead me to "Nope."
The rest of my post is towards the issues I see in this thread.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It's funny because so many kids QQ about WOW graphic style cartoon-nish I mean but at the same timeWildStar is even more cartoon nish one
Also It don't have epic WOW Story books one reason WOW was so good is because LORE it had war death love friend ship hope hate respect wise characters which where kinda real this is what was so great about it.
What is Wild star for me well LAME funny quite childish game for kids
Not sure that I will play it even it releases as an F2p
So unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably noticed how many games are being relased as free to play and how many that used to be subscription based are going free to play with a subscription option. There are probably all of two MMOs out right now that maintain a subscription model and nothing else. Do you think that Wildstar will be the third, or will it eventually switch to a buy to play option similar to Guild Wars 2 or The Secret World or go fully free to play like Rift or TERA?
What's everyones predictions?
Hope it doesn't switch from sub to F2P.
The problem with the switch is games go from focused on improving the game and adding great new content so you want to keep your sub going, to making the gates to content painful enough that you will pay to avoid them.
Comments
So in other words...
I want a mansion but not have to work a day in my life for it.
I want to take home a Lamberguinie by just walking into the dealership and just given the keys and sent on my merry way.
I want a personal chef to cook me a five star dinner but not pay him a nickle.
It amazes me how people expect a free games from companies the spent numerous years developing the game.And here is another fact, $100 Founders Pack no way is even close to to years sub, which is $150 and you are not even calculating the retail of the bock which knocks it up to around $200.
Another fun fact is that these Founders Parck are entirely optional and now way mandatory unlike the retail+sub method.
Also GW2 does not "barrage" you with the crap they are trying to sell. Yes they have advertisements in the gem store but that is why you open it up to begin with.
If you're gonna hate on the F2P/B2P, at least be creditable going about it.
This is probably the case. Except for the "fail" part. I don't see many top shelf MMOs shutting down completely after switching to F2P. If anything, should the game goes F2P, there will be a significant uptick in the number of registered accounts and players. Then, the game will probably churn along just like most other free games, with people coming and going without any barriers.
You are the problem with this genre.
No, that would be you, accusing people of being "the problem with this genre".
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
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I'm certainly in the camp of hoping the subscription model will remain viable. However, it's only hope and is certainly prone to shatter once the content locusts move on from this game.
While I agree that free-to-play games are much more focused on making money, the style and degree of coercion within each varies. I'm not sure that Founder's pack sales are used to regain the cost of lost subscriptions, or would be subscriptions for that matter. I think it's charging for near necessary or necessary commodity to the enjoyment of the game. They have to be focused on this, though, because their game couldn't be sold for whatever reason.
So far, Wildstar beta has been for actual testing. So far, it shows signs of being a great game with loads of content - endgame and otherwise.
Oh yeah, because, I want people to actually pay for the shit they use. Get real. You code a game and then read a post like this. Spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours just to have someone free load. That's sensible. I stand by my words. And if you agree with him, you're part of the problem too.
It's more 50/50...I know people that won't even touch a f2 game...and vice versa.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
He has an sms code, but where did he get that sms code from? One way or another it was paid for, meaning that either way money is being spent, going to the devs or the publishers.
Now as for you, what with your "subscription elitism", you are driving a wedge in the playerbase and the developers. It is people like you who look down on games that are free to play, people who play free to play games, etc. who are the true problem. Games are supposed to be about having fun, and different people are willing to spend different amounts of money to have said fun. By thinking that people who play f2p games are at fault for a bad game industry, you are alienating them and the devs who make f2p games.
If you want to discuss a problem, discuss the recent rash of copy and paste military shooters, not subscription models. F2P, B2P, and P2P are all viable models, each with their own advantages and disadvantages; none are superior to the other. Why must you make people who like payement optionsthat you don't like feel bad. Seriously, what have they ever done to you? What has any one individual person who likes f2p ever done to you? Have they ever insulted you for liking p2p games? Have they ever said that your favorite p2p game is garbage just because it is p2p? Have they ever said that you and your liking p2p games is ruining the mmo industry?
Sorry for rant.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I know. After entering college, I had to budget my money, which meant no more subscription MMO (and I was playing WoW at the time and loving it). Imagine my glee when many MMOs were either being released or turned f2p. After that I stopped playing p2p MMOs; GW2 is the first MMO I have spent money on in a long time, and I have had no regrets. If Wildstar is converted from p2p to b2p, I would probably buy it instantly no ifs and or buts.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
But your argument only makes a stronger case for what maddemon is saying. It's no secret f2p games are making more than they were as p2p....so obviously they're not all just freeloaders that don't pay for the "shit" they use. They just choose to pay for different things.
One of the biggest problems this whole genre has is the out of control sterotypeing people seem to NEED to put on anyone that doesn't agree with their narrow view of what a game should be.
If your view of the genre isn't constantly evolving you're stuck in the past..and that is this genres biggest problem.
I think what he is getting at is that the more developers focus on making money off the F2P population, the less time they focus on improving game mechanics and more time finding new ways of making money from the F2P user base.
In my opinion, I would rather have the developers just focus on making games better than wasting time on all these nonsense micro-transactions.
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I'm not stuck in the past. I'm not saying that subscription is the only viable model. And furthermore, just because things have changed doesn't mean they've changed for the better.
How many of these free to play games actually focus on the game? How many of them focus on just letting you in and enjoying the game without concern for the next hot deal in their cash shop? They've all but programmed feverish car salesmen into the game. Sure, not all of them are like that, but it is a problem inherit to the model. It may be profitable, but ti's annoying as hell to be given a sales pitch every single login and on every single screen.
I'm absolutely fine with buy to play and even bought the Secret World to support that model. I want an entry fee. I want to pay for the game I'm playing and know that when I log in, each person there is on an even playing field. I'm not here to subsidize other players because they can't afford to buy a game.
If any of that makes me stuck in the past, then so be it.
Thank you, that is exactly my point.
In my experience, free games reinvest in profit making strategies, finding new commodities to limit and sell. They have to. It's their lifeblood.
Guild Wars 2 has a good model and I supported it while I played the game. Unfortunately, they decided they went a different route than I liked. Support ended and I don't log in.
There's certainly a case to be made for the failure of subscriptions in the post-WoW generation. Yet, I don't think it's inherent to that model. I think it's because those games made the wrong design decisions and consumers will not hesitate to leave a game. However, that's a vulnerability to any game.
While your last post is something I agree with...it sure wasn't your "point" when you attacked him in your first post. Other than the mmo parasites that pay for nothing, I think most people will pay for any game they love to play. The last 5 or so years has just made many gamers gun shy about buying into a game though. That isn't the fault of the player imo but the games being made.
One years sub to WildStar 9.99 a month if you choose the annual option). Not EXACTLY $100, but I didn't say exactly in my post.
The founders pack is NOT optional if you want to play the game when it's available. Fact.
To test your "GW2 does not 'barrage'" you with stuff to buy on the launcher, I decided to update and fire it up and Gem store ads are nearly every third news item. The other games I mentioned do the same thing. Fact.
Now, to avoid any confusion: I play plenty of B2P/F2P games including tons of GW2, Neverwinter and the likes. I didn't say they were terrible games. The issue is that a new crop of MMO's are "perfecting" the F2P money machine and are able to come across as "F2P" but are obvious money grabs on hyped players, who are paying HUGE dollars for founders packs and then not getting near their money's worth. I'm so thankful WildStar did not do this.
What I was doing was not hating on F2P/B2P I was making an argument that these so called "non-sub games" are much more concerned about grabbing the cash out of your wallet than a sub game does, where the payment is clear up front and you get a complete game for one price. The cash shop is NOT optional for the type of player that wants to get the most out of their experience, in which case the sub-fee/F2P argument is irreleant since they both charge players. The only difference is that a sub game doesn't constantly barrage you with ads, new shiny things - and even worse, items that improve your character gather, power, armor, etc.
A game designed like WildStar is best suited for a subscription since ultimately built to offer a complete MMO experience. Carbine could have easily done a money grab with all of their housing items, costumes, pets, mounts etc and put them in a microtransaction store. However, there are ZERO AAA MMO's that are sub free that doesn't sell in-game boosts. (This includes GW2, which houses many types of player boosts in chests that require cash shop purchase).
Thus, my opinion (just an opinion) is that WildStar will be completely viable with a sub since I know I'm not alone in my feelings about so-called "Free" games that focus more on your dollar than the sub games do.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
troll trying to hard?
"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach
Here's an idea for a cash shop / sub hybrid model that I'd like to see.
Cash shop has items like exp boosts (only to the max allowed) / additional bag/bank slot (only to the max allowed) / access to dye vendor / item customization.
The Sub gives you everything offered in the shop (so obviously the shop isn't built for whaling, it's built to encourage people to sub, but allows F2P).
But here's the kicker, if you have a sub, the cash shop disappear from your game and all ads for it. So playing as a sub player gives you the benefit of having everything and no ads directing you to the shop, and if you don't want to sub, you can play for free and buy things at your leisure.
That might be the problem players have with cash shops, it's that they're built to get players to spend far more than a sub would and therefore encourages devs to make more things available via cash shop. What if the cash shop was designed to get people closer to subbing rather than spending a ton?
It might be a good model.
P2P is starting to be hard to justify each year.
Especially when 15 dollars is not needed, like why can't it be at least 5 dollars a month least that'd make it easier for people who don't have that much time to play or even not enough time to play an hour that month...stay subscribed.
My signature really. Now p2p can exist but 15 dollars alone doesn't make sense any more, hell even if 10 at least or something. But Wildstar can last longer than Tera and SWTOR maybe, if they have free expansions, least then they can say your 15 dollars a month is going towards expansions.
Most niche games who are going for niche numbers can be P2P because they are going for niche numbers. I mean just calling it how I see and experience it, until I see more mainstream MMORPGs that aren't going for niche numbers(post WoW it made it in time) do something they I may lean on the side of Wildstar and other upcoming p2p games being viable but as of now no game is nor has unless niche and not mainstream...is viable.
I think what also makes me really against P2P is simply put in my profile, and the OP went on a rant that really was needed IMO, because stuff you said goes through my mind and has went through my mind for awhile even before my constant posts on why P2P really isn't any better than F2P and B2P games in reality. So many false claims and bashing the player base that doesn't like p2p games.
I just saw someone say but not word for word that people who don't play p2p games are stupid and don't know any better...it's earlier in this thread. Maybe my fault is even with my sig I'm implying that people who say that have no common sense, but honestly I believe they just don't have any sense at that moment and aren't stupid but more so ignorant for making such claims.
Though unfortunately this website has the most active posters who are [Pro] P2P, they outnumber vocally on this website but I know those who agree and understand that P2P is honestly no better than F2P and B2P and hardly as justifiable these days, are out there.
Tldr: To answer the question, no not really, not convinced but i could be wrong which is fine but history and just overall what happens all the time lead me to "Nope."
The rest of my post is towards the issues I see in this thread.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It's funny because so many kids QQ about WOW graphic style cartoon-nish I mean but at the same timeWildStar is even more cartoon nish one
Also It don't have epic WOW Story books one reason WOW was so good is because LORE it had war death love friend ship hope hate respect wise characters which where kinda real this is what was so great about it.
What is Wild star for me well LAME funny quite childish game for kids
Not sure that I will play it even it releases as an F2p
NO offence to fan boy
Hope it doesn't switch from sub to F2P.
The problem with the switch is games go from focused on improving the game and adding great new content so you want to keep your sub going, to making the gates to content painful enough that you will pay to avoid them.