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Are there any "decent" MMO's that are sandbox?

daterxiesdaterxies WEst Allis, WIPosts: 14Member

Hey...

 

So sitting here wth the -20 windchill today i realized im getting bored of my standard games. Been playing EvE Online for 10 years and full on theme park games just dont interest me.. infact pretty much anything with levels 1-60-90 whatever i cant stand... it makes a thing in my head go off called grinding just to get to the next level.  

I have tried games like Darkfall and whatever that other one is.. but medieval times i just find lame (sorry no offense.. but the whole genre is SATURATED with swords and magic.. after years of it im just SICK of it)  I briefly tried TSW and while i liked the setting... its pretty much a themepark MMO as well.  I want a MMO where you can get together with a guild or whatever and work towards something together.. not just peices of armor and swords.

 

Does such a game exist?  I am REALLY looking forward to The Repopulation.. but thats a year away still.

Comments

  • ringdanyringdany New York, NYPosts: 122Member

    yes it does exist - look up Shadowbane Emu. Players build their own cities, then join together and go invading other player's cities. You can fly in this game and it is medieval fantasy. Old style game tho - also, it is community run.

    Also consider f2p RF Online (www.rfonline.com). Mecha, magic, science - 3 realms fighting each other in RvR. But i have heard it is pay to win.

    I don't think it will interest u greatly but my favourite sandbox mmo is a basic RvR mmo called Champions of Regnum. Modelled on DAOC its main focus is RvR pvp (there is a grind tho). It is considered not pay to win so once u level up, ur character lasts for ages and ages. You even earn xp for killing  enemy players while levelling up.

    im also considering Trove & Aion and one $15 pay once big mecha combat game whose name i have forgotten.

  • apb2011apb2011 Quebec city, QCPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    I have to agree with you, to many swords and knights fantasy games.

    I think a lot of MMO gamers want sandbox games and it has been like this for awhile. Sandbox games cost more to develop and maintain. That is why devs choose to build themeparks.

    It is good to know that there are more AAA games coming out on the horizon that are sandbox. I recently tried Eldevin and I like it. It is sandbox but there is a heavy emphasis on questing. I wouldn't call it AAA but I managed to spend more than planned hours on that game. Probably because it brings me back to the days of Ultima Online.

    Good luck

  • MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 794Member Uncommon

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

     

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

     

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

  • Aren_DAren_D SkienPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    I feel ya. I was looking for sanboxish experiecne for soooo long and gave up in the end. So it's LoL, TERA for the fun combat and X rebirth,EU IV, Siv 5, Mount&Blade etc for me atm :|

    I'm kinda waiting for new engine for Anarchy Online, maybe it refresh game a bit and I might have fun exploring that game again.

    "Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

     

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

     

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

    Right, so how come when people bring that exact reason up as a reason that "sandboxy living worlds" fail people ignore it?

    The reason sandboxes (esp OWPvP) fail to appeal to the general gaming populace is because time and time again no matter how good the developer created system are, they are all vulnerable to the same thing . . . the players. Players can and will do anything and everything in their power to limit, prevent, deny or eliminate opportunities for their fellow gamers to participate.

    And yet, despite that, you even say that you would play if a new server opened up. The only reason you would want to do that is in hopes of being at the top of the pecking order on the new server not concerning yourself with the fact that 6 months later you would be doing to someone else what the current crop of vets have done to you!

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

     

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

     

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

    Right, so how come when people bring that exact reason up as a reason that "sandboxy living worlds" fail people ignore it?

    The reason sandboxes (esp OWPvP) fail to appeal to the general gaming populace is because time and time again no matter how good the developer created system are, they are all vulnerable to the same thing . . . the players. Players can and will do anything and everything in their power to limit, prevent, deny or eliminate opportunities for their fellow gamers to participate.

    And yet, despite that, you even say that you would play if a new server opened up. The only reason you would want to do that is in hopes of being at the top of the pecking order on the new server not concerning yourself with the fact that 6 months later you would be doing to someone else what the current crop of vets have done to you!

    LOL- Its off topic but I will try to explain.

    Yes, this is a problem with Sandbox games (I never said it wasnt) but Ryzom is different as this is a MAJOR Problem...

    No. I am not 'caring about being on top' I just want to use the systems and fight for something- There could easily have been fixes for this problem in the game mechanics but I do not think the devs foresaw the issue as being this bad... Still, a reset would give a good 4-5 years before everything is on "lockdown" again and I would have probably moved on by that time anyhow.

    Your points are valid (not arguing) but sandbox games can add mechanics to 'fix' this issue quite easily OR ake a new server every few years... Personally I like the idea of a sandbox style 'wargame' that has a defined end with 'winning conditions' - THAT would be cool. A strategy type MMO with a massive war game going on where one side can really "WIN"- Probably never happen...but....

    Anyhow, my faulting Ryzom (and other games0 with becoming static and locked down in NO WAY means I do not think Sandbox games are better and more fulfilling- It just means after 10 years (or whatever) the game is dead unless it makes a new server. Also, if there ever is a Ryzom 2 (heres hoping) I imagine they will make it far more difficult to "lock down" the World.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

     

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

     

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

    Right, so how come when people bring that exact reason up as a reason that "sandboxy living worlds" fail people ignore it?

    The reason sandboxes (esp OWPvP) fail to appeal to the general gaming populace is because time and time again no matter how good the developer created system are, they are all vulnerable to the same thing . . . the players. Players can and will do anything and everything in their power to limit, prevent, deny or eliminate opportunities for their fellow gamers to participate.

    And yet, despite that, you even say that you would play if a new server opened up. The only reason you would want to do that is in hopes of being at the top of the pecking order on the new server not concerning yourself with the fact that 6 months later you would be doing to someone else what the current crop of vets have done to you!

    LOL- Its off topic but I will try to explain.

    Yes, this is a problem with Sandbox games (I never said it wasnt) but Ryzom is different as this is a MAJOR Problem...

    No. I am not 'caring about being on top' I just want to use the systems and fight for something- There could easily have been fixes for this problem in the game mechanics but I do not think the devs foresaw the issue as being this bad... Still, a reset would give a good 4-5 years before everything is on "lockdown" again and I would have probably moved on by that time anyhow.

    Your points are valid (not arguing) but sandbox games can add mechanics to 'fix' this issue quite easily OR ake a new server every few years... Personally I like the idea of a sandbox style 'wargame' that has a defined end with 'winning conditions' - THAT would be cool. A strategy type MMO with a massive war game going on where one side can really "WIN"- Probably never happen...but....

    Anyhow, my faulting Ryzom (and other games0 with becoming static and locked down in NO WAY means I do not think Sandbox games are better and more fulfilling- It just means after 10 years (or whatever) the game is dead unless it makes a new server. Also, if there ever is a Ryzom 2 (heres hoping) I imagine they will make it far more difficult to "lock down" the World.

     

    The easy way it to make the world react to this. Send an invasion force to crush some forces lol.  

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

     

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

     

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

    Right, so how come when people bring that exact reason up as a reason that "sandboxy living worlds" fail people ignore it?

    The reason sandboxes (esp OWPvP) fail to appeal to the general gaming populace is because time and time again no matter how good the developer created system are, they are all vulnerable to the same thing . . . the players. Players can and will do anything and everything in their power to limit, prevent, deny or eliminate opportunities for their fellow gamers to participate.

    And yet, despite that, you even say that you would play if a new server opened up. The only reason you would want to do that is in hopes of being at the top of the pecking order on the new server not concerning yourself with the fact that 6 months later you would be doing to someone else what the current crop of vets have done to you!

    LOL- Its off topic but I will try to explain.

    Yes, this is a problem with Sandbox games (I never said it wasnt) but Ryzom is different as this is a MAJOR Problem...

    No. I am not 'caring about being on top' I just want to use the systems and fight for something- There could easily have been fixes for this problem in the game mechanics but I do not think the devs foresaw the issue as being this bad... Still, a reset would give a good 4-5 years before everything is on "lockdown" again and I would have probably moved on by that time anyhow.

    Your points are valid (not arguing) but sandbox games can add mechanics to 'fix' this issue quite easily OR ake a new server every few years... Personally I like the idea of a sandbox style 'wargame' that has a defined end with 'winning conditions' - THAT would be cool. A strategy type MMO with a massive war game going on where one side can really "WIN"- Probably never happen...but....

    Anyhow, my faulting Ryzom (and other games0 with becoming static and locked down in NO WAY means I do not think Sandbox games are better and more fulfilling- It just means after 10 years (or whatever) the game is dead unless it makes a new server. Also, if there ever is a Ryzom 2 (heres hoping) I imagine they will make it far more difficult to "lock down" the World.

     

    The easy way it to make the world react to this. Send an invasion force to crush some forces lol.  

    i theory..Yes.

    In Ryzom...No.

    All the "top guids" got together and split everything up. Guild X controls Y and Guild Z controls B etc...etc... And they will nit war with one another and will help each other if anyone tries to change the treaty they have in place.

    It truly is lockdown- Total lockdown... And with a lack of fresh players joining the game nobody is willing to rock the boat who is established there.

    NOW, this could have changed. I have not played in over a year- But the six months I was there it was total lockdown and the Guilds who had treaties were feared by Guilds who didnt... It was like one country trying to invade another would bring the entire World down against you.

    When they did the whole "relaunch" or whatever (cannot remember) there was talk of a new server and the vets even shut that down threatening to cancel accounts. So the game is static and will forever be =(

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Give Wushu a try. You will be some what familiar with the skill system. Player made alliances, school wars, guild wars, alignment system, bounty system. It's about as good as it gets for pvp atm.
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Give Wushu a try. You will be some what familiar with the skill system. Player made alliances, school wars, guild wars, alignment system, bounty system. It's about as good as it gets for pvp atm.

    I have heard some awesome things about this game- Sadly my computer doesnt run it well at all- Its choppy as hell and when too many people get onscreen (or in a city) I am in slideshow mode.

    I plan to upgrade here shortly and hopefully will be able to give this a try.

     

    Is it P2W at all?

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    What you are looking for is Ryzom if a non medieval sandbox is what you truly want then you want this game

    www.ryzom.com

    THIS^^^^^^

    Probably among the best of the sandbox games and certainly not P2W.

    ...But good luck. The game is "over" and they refused to make a new server or reset the current one. The game" has some fantastic systems for Territory control, Guild wars ( you will actually "declare War" which ends up costing alot and is not done lightly)- But you will never see these systems because the game is on "lock down" by the veteran players.

    IF Ryzom would have added a new server- Its the game I would be playing right now (happily) but as it is- After six months of playing I can tell you that most of the really cool game mechanics are moot since the vets control everything and keep things static amongst themselves.

    -Sad because the game is quite cool.

    Right, so how come when people bring that exact reason up as a reason that "sandboxy living worlds" fail people ignore it?

    The reason sandboxes (esp OWPvP) fail to appeal to the general gaming populace is because time and time again no matter how good the developer created system are, they are all vulnerable to the same thing . . . the players. Players can and will do anything and everything in their power to limit, prevent, deny or eliminate opportunities for their fellow gamers to participate.

    And yet, despite that, you even say that you would play if a new server opened up. The only reason you would want to do that is in hopes of being at the top of the pecking order on the new server not concerning yourself with the fact that 6 months later you would be doing to someone else what the current crop of vets have done to you!

    LOL- Its off topic but I will try to explain.

    Yes, this is a problem with Sandbox games (I never said it wasnt) but Ryzom is different as this is a MAJOR Problem...

    No. I am not 'caring about being on top' I just want to use the systems and fight for something- There could easily have been fixes for this problem in the game mechanics but I do not think the devs foresaw the issue as being this bad... Still, a reset would give a good 4-5 years before everything is on "lockdown" again and I would have probably moved on by that time anyhow.

    Your points are valid (not arguing) but sandbox games can add mechanics to 'fix' this issue quite easily OR ake a new server every few years... Personally I like the idea of a sandbox style 'wargame' that has a defined end with 'winning conditions' - THAT would be cool. A strategy type MMO with a massive war game going on where one side can really "WIN"- Probably never happen...but....

    Anyhow, my faulting Ryzom (and other games0 with becoming static and locked down in NO WAY means I do not think Sandbox games are better and more fulfilling- It just means after 10 years (or whatever) the game is dead unless it makes a new server. Also, if there ever is a Ryzom 2 (heres hoping) I imagine they will make it far more difficult to "lock down" the World.

    Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online don't seem to have the same problem as Ryzom in their conquest gameplay, both offering different mechanics to prevent that scenario and, as you point out, fix that problem. In both Puzzle Pirates and EVE, the top armadas/alliances welcome new blood, and they are always faced with threats from up and coming adversaries. Ryzom's conquest gameplay is just bad design.

    You mention new server as a possible solution, which is the fix that most PBBGs (Evony, Grepolis, Ikariam, etc) use how there's also the world reset approach which can be done a variety of ways, the two most notable are PotBS and ATITD.

    Whatever the case, the veteran players locking things down isn't a sandbox problem, it's a bad design problem, and it manifests itself even in themepark gameplay, such as high end raiding and top tier gear acquisition.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Give Wushu a try. You will be some what familiar with the skill system. Player made alliances, school wars, guild wars, alignment system, bounty system. It's about as good as it gets for pvp atm.

    I have heard some awesome things about this game- Sadly my computer doesnt run it well at all- Its choppy as hell and when too many people get onscreen (or in a city) I am in slideshow mode.

    I plan to upgrade here shortly and hopefully will be able to give this a try.

     

    Is it P2W at all?

    It has a cash to gold conversions system.. so buy definition yes. How bad is it? I've never bought gold. I've only used in game currency.

  • IylzIylz Burgaw, NCPosts: 107Member
    Wushu is a straight up P2W if you want it game and it has more bots than any MMO on the market right now.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iylz
    Wushu is a straight up P2W if you want it game and it has more bots than any MMO on the market right now.image

    Fixed it for you.

  • VigilianceVigiliance Sacramento, CAPosts: 213Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
     

    Whatever the case, the veteran players locking things down isn't a sandbox problem, it's a bad design problem, and it manifests itself even in themepark gameplay, such as high end raiding and top tier gear acquisition.

     

    I agree this happened in WoW all the time on various servers.

     

    Powerful populated Raid guilds would "lock down" outdoor raid bosses because they had numerous alts that would check all the spawn locations twice a day like a bad habit. The moment they saw one of the outdoor Dragons was up they had the population and access to various other "allied" guilds to take down the raid bosses quickly before the general populace even had a chance at knowing.

    I am sure there are countless other examples I could think of if I put my mind to it but design is the issue, its not the player base so much (at least in a realistic solution). Its human nature to want the most and the best of limited resources for your self and those you care about. You aren't going to change that, so as a game designer you have to take that into account and build a game that minimizes "lock down".

     

    Sandboxes as a trend generally just have less rules or Dev Intervention that can lead to "lockdown" happening more frequently.

  • wsmarwsmar Nashville, TNPosts: 122Member
    Check out albion online! I'll be alpha testing it next week and will periodically post updates in the forums on my experience!
  • daterxiesdaterxies WEst Allis, WIPosts: 14Member

    Thanks for all the replies... some mmos mentioned i never even knew existed.

     

    I did try Age of Wushu awhile back.. coming from  eve and started it in 03ish you would think id be use to just getting thrown into the world with no direction and help.. but i am lost with AoW.  Maybe i will reinstall and try again and get in with a guild.

     

     

     

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    If you can handle the low population give Perpetuum a try.

    I'm an 8 year EVE tribalist as well but I'm in FF14 right now and it's themepark on rails. I do it for the crafting but you will learn to hate it if you are pure sandbox.

     

    Really there are no sandbox games out there right now.  It's more about finding a feature or features outside the quest train that can keep you occupied for more than a week.

  • YoungCaesarYoungCaesar San Diego, CAPosts: 297Member Uncommon
    well if u can withstand the hardcore full loot open pvp, then Mortal Online is one of the few choices... combat is pretty skil based, especially melee, with directional attacks/blocks, parrys, counters, etc..

    Also almost everything ingame is crafted..
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I want to live in a player-made town, zerg another guild's castle (fixed a typo saying 'cattle') and tank big dragons when there's no war...

     

    where do I go?

     

    /sucks. the concept of "sandbox pve" is just as hilarious as "themepark pvp". it's a shame we can't have both. perhaps that's what the next WoW will be like?

    image

  • bowmanjoebowmanjoe Salinas, CAPosts: 40Member
    Originally posted by daterxies

    Hey...

     

    So sitting here wth the -20 windchill today i realized im getting bored of my standard games. Been playing EvE Online for 10 years and full on theme park games just dont interest me.. infact pretty much anything with levels 1-60-90 whatever i cant stand... it makes a thing in my head go off called grinding just to get to the next level.  

    I have tried games like Darkfall and whatever that other one is.. but medieval times i just find lame (sorry no offense.. but the whole genre is SATURATED with swords and magic.. after years of it im just SICK of it)  I briefly tried TSW and while i liked the setting... its pretty much a themepark MMO as well.  I want a MMO where you can get together with a guild or whatever and work towards something together.. not just peices of armor and swords.

     

    Does such a game exist?  I am REALLY looking forward to The Repopulation.. but thats a year away still.

    Asheron's Call Darktide.  I'm not kidding.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/401133/AC-LIVES-Asherons-Call-Darktide-Is-Alive-and-Well-New-Live-Stream.html

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