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Glad ESO will be Subscription model

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  • MalevilMalevil BratislavaPosts: 468Member
    Unless the game is excelent, sub model will fail.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I always wonder why subscription gamers are so cheap and will only spend $15 a month on games they like. They really need to get real jobs that pay something so they can actually spend some money on their hobby. You can spend $50 a week or more on paintball or hunting, not to mention the gear, but sub gamers are so cheap they equate their hobby to eating at a fast food joint. It's sort of pathetic.

    Not totally sure if this is serious or sarcastic but with me, I'd consider spending more than $15 on a game if it was really great but I refuse to buy virtual items in games. expecting me to spend money on bag space or mounts is just an insult to my intelligence. If you say "our game is worth X dollars a month!" that is a different thing.

    Buying virtual items is ludicrous to you and insults your intelligence, but renting temporary access does not. image Okay, whatever floats your boat. You pay your way and I'll pay mine. With my way I control exactly how much I spend and when I spend it.

    Renting access?  You are always renting.  You never own anything.  The difference is a game designed to milk you for money or a game designed to keep you playing.  Pick your poison.

    F2P crowd cracks me up.  

    Rent: The definitions of rent all start similarly: "a regular payment to the owner for the right to use". When a sub is required to access the server you are renting. A F2P or B2P doesn't require a rental payment. I think you're willfully confusing the concept that servers are never guaranteed to remain open and that everything has an end. That isn't the same as renting.

    With P2P "designed to keep you playing" and "milking your for money" are equivalent. If you play then they are milking you for money. The concept of milking being to draw a resource consistently over time. That resource is your monthly fee. The milking in P2P is not optional. The milking in F2P or B2P is optional.

    The P2P crowd always cracks me up too because they get so irate when people don't like to pay and play their way.

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title

    Think the game does this well on it's own, sub or F2P doesn't even matter.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

    Remember, when you log in for the first time and you notice that in-game store ad pop up with the 'deals of the day' even though you are already paying a monthly premium...

     

    Be sure to come back here and reply to your own thread about how happy you still are.

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • Kicksave321Kicksave321 Red wing, MNPosts: 262Member
    I am glad it will be going SUB.  NOT ALL but a vocal minority of f2pers ruin games these days.  You read these threads and the lies and misinformation about this game is ridiculous and I would bet most of it is because the f2pers a pissed its going to be a sub.  There is a reason F2pers are not allowed in most game forums. This Entitlement mentality doesnt work in society and doesnt work in video games.  Its sad a pathetic to see people actually hate a video game and go out of their way to lie and post misinformation about a video game to the extent of hoping a video game fails just so it goes f2p so they can come in and cry and whine its not free enough.  
  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by iridescence
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I always wonder why subscription gamers are so cheap and will only spend $15 a month on games they like. They really need to get real jobs that pay something so they can actually spend some money on their hobby. You can spend $50 a week or more on paintball or hunting, not to mention the gear, but sub gamers are so cheap they equate their hobby to eating at a fast food joint. It's sort of pathetic.

    Not totally sure if this is serious or sarcastic but with me, I'd consider spending more than $15 on a game if it was really great but I refuse to buy virtual items in games. expecting me to spend money on bag space or mounts is just an insult to my intelligence. If you say "our game is worth X dollars a month!" that is a different thing.

    Buying virtual items is ludicrous to you and insults your intelligence, but renting temporary access does not. image Okay, whatever floats your boat. You pay your way and I'll pay mine. With my way I control exactly how much I spend and when I spend it.

    And to get the same items, content, etc in a f2p game verse sub. you will end up paying 5x more. That is ludicrous to me.

    image

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
     

    Renting access?  You are always renting.  You never own anything.  The difference is a game designed to milk you for money or a game designed to keep you playing.  Pick your poison.

    F2P crowd cracks me up.  

    Rent: The definitions of rent all start similarly: "a regular payment to the owner for the right to use". When a sub is required to access the server you are renting. A F2P or B2P doesn't require a rental payment. I think you're willfully confusing the concept that servers are never guaranteed to remain open and that everything has an end. That isn't the same as renting.

    With P2P "designed to keep you playing" and "milking your for money" are equivalent. If you play then they are milking you for money. The concept of milking being to draw a resource consistently over time. That resource is your monthly fee. The milking in P2P is not optional. The milking in F2P or B2P is optional.

     

     

    You're actually paying for content updates not just renting your spot in the game. Some games try to charge a sub for just basically a "rental" but those games usually fail hard when people realize what they're doing. I'm fine with them wanting me to keep playing. I desire a  game with longevity and fun that I'll want to stick with so the sub company's interests and my interests coincide.

    I'm fine with being "milked" if I'm getting value back every month. I don't feel entitled to get entertained for free but I prefer companies to be up-front about the price of things rather than hitting me with tons of little hidden charges for a "free" game. I know not all F2P models are like that but a lot are. 

     

     

    The P2P crowd always cracks me up too because they get so irate when people don't like to pay and play their way.

    I'm not part of any "crowd". I can see some advantages to F2P for games I'm on the fence about but if I really think a game is going to be good I've usually found P2P delivers the higher quality experience, enough to justify the monthly fee.

     

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

    i dont believe you at all, sorry.

     

    i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

     

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

    i dont believe you at all, sorry.

     

    i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

     

    They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cybersrs
    Kinda off topic, sorry... There will not be RAID like 10+ players? Only Dungeon 4 players?

    Adventure zones will have group play from 4 to 24 in the zone. But not much known about what kind of content will be for the 24 man.

     

    I have no problem paying a sub. In fact I would rather play a MMO with a sub than in other way. I haven't found a F2P yet that I can play for more than a few weeks. The problem is a lack of quality in F2P games IMO. Same for B2P IMO as well. But that has lead to the current problem we have with just about every new MMO.

     

    There are so many options now that the overall quality just keeps getting worse for every type of game. That is a problem brought about by the B2P and F2P market. Very few gamers will play a game for very long. Every game has to have the same content as games that have been out for years or they fail now. Games are not allowed to grow over time, it is an all or nothing type of market. So paying a sub means years of content must be in the game on day one. That increase the cost of development that leads to needing to earn back that cash ASAP which leads to F2P for the new crop of expensive low content games with subs.

     

    All of this is creating the bad games we have been getting. It is trying to please the masses that can never be pleased. Making it near impossible to create a sub and build type of MMO of the past. Everything has to be instant access, free or I quit, give me the world now or I will go play some other F2P and not spend a dime.

     

    Sub games will struggle in today's market. Even if that is the best investment for a MMO IMO. I just hope ESO will have some time sinks or ways to slow players down while leveling. Because that is the only way to keep players for more than a month. Using psychology used to be called Warcrak. (the missing formula for the millions of subs) Chasing the carrot, creating frustration, that leads to a must finish attitude. Low drop rates, grinding for rep, long chain quests with a lot of travel time, and so on. Taking months to reach end game with an end game that was very difficult. Difficulty used to make players want to log in day after day. But I think that type of leveling is dead and buried.

     

     

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by cura
     

    If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

    Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

    Have you ever gone through angst over a $5 impulse buy? I'm walking through Walmart and see a DVD I don't have in the $5 bin and buy it. I don't go home later and froth and churn over it. I certainly don't send Walmart letters condemning them for offering cheap stuff.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I don't see a value in renting my games anymore. I used to buy them before these publishers tried the "rent your mmo" deal. They didn't live up their end of the bargain of providing a return for that $180 per year, not to mention the box fees they started adding in to that cost so it's more like $240 per year. I never spent $240 for single player title with multi-player components (Doom, DukeNukem, NWN, Starcraft), let alone that much per year.

    I see B2P and F2P with a cash shop as a way I can control my spending. I spend what I want when I want. If it's not worth much to me I won't spend much. If it is worth more and I appreciate the game then I'll spend more than that $240/yr. You don't control your spending with a mandatory monthly rental fee unless you stop playing. And then what, all that you've spent is null and void unless you pony up more cash. No thanks.

    But with all that said, I don't care if this game is sub-locked. I think more options are good. There seem to be a lot of people here who like renting their games and I think it's good some publishers cater to that. I don't have to play every game and every publisher doesn't have to monetize my way. There is nothing wrong with them choosing this payment model in my opinion.

    For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.

    What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

    i dont believe you at all, sorry.

     

    i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

     

    They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

    It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

    i dont believe you at all, sorry.

     

    i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

     

    They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

    It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

    for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by djazzy
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by orionblack
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

    i dont believe you at all, sorry.

     

    i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

     

    They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

    It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

    for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had

    Agreed

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia

    For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.

    What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.

    I understand where you're coming from and respect that. Like I said, I think it's good there are games that offer different ways to do what we like.

    I also get why some people get cheesed off when a game comes out that doesn't support how they want to pay. I get that some f2p or b2p players are frustrated over the sub thing. I also get why some people get annoyed that some games are f2p or b2p if they like subs. 

  • Flaming_MMOFlaming_MMO Jefferson, GAPosts: 137Member
    The open world is pretty much one of the main reasons why I enjoy Elder Scrolls games in the first place. I am looking forward to the next single player Elder Scrolls game that is not an MMO personally.   This looks like half the game that Skyrim is with MMO elements thrown in. 
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,462Member Uncommon

    I would say it is most definitely the way to go because you know there is no imbalance in game play,it is the same for everyone and as intended.The problem is that in now a days games,we cannot trust ANY of the developers.

    I would say every single dev now is eyeing up the possibility of a sub fee for as long as it is accepted with a contingency plan on going cash shop soon after.

    So what happens is you might be all happy,buy the game,sub for 3 months,then BAM cash shop starts in.You just invested time and money to a product that has changed and now you are no longer happy.I have been lucky,i joined FFXI on day 1 and it has remained true for it's entirety and maybe the only game to do so.

    I will hope and prey that ESO is a sub fee forever  and i hope it is a game that is actually worth it,the industry needs it.


    Samoan Diamond

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAPosts: 1,606Member Uncommon
    The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.
  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Superman0X
    The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.

    Some of the highest quality games are P2P to F2P conversions.  I don't know of one MMORPG that was built with F2P from the start that doesn't amount to a carney game as you get further involved in it.

  • muppetpilotmuppetpilot Fort Wayne, INPosts: 163Member Uncommon

    Don't you just love how these topics degenerate into the "P2Pers versus F2Pers" arguments, full of sound and fury and nerdrage?

    Isn't it phenomenal, how people will fruitlessly try to "prove" how their way of spending (or not spending) their own money is somehow "better" or "smarter" than someone else's way of spending their money?

    If you don't like the sub model, then go find yourself an f2p game; for the love of God, it's not like there aren't a million of them out there!  And if you're like me and prefer a sub game, there are still some left and apparently more of them incoming. 

    And if you simply don't like the sub model, or don't have the funds to be able to afford one, that does NOT mean that the model is "dead" or that all MMOs should be f2p.  Christ, people, don't you think there is enough of a sense of entitlement in this country already?  And on the other end of the spectrum, if you happen to like the sub model, that most certainly doesn't mean that there's anything inherently wrong with the f2p way of playing.  It never really appealed to me but that doesn't mean it hasn't appealed to quite a few others.

    Good God, you people sit here and hide behind your keyboards and bash each other and the publishers and developers and everybody else....and yet the world keeps on turning and studios keep making business decisions without your input, don't they?  Hmm, perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from that...

    "Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune

  • iamrtaiamrta centreville, VAPosts: 164Member Common
    That said, I won't play if it's F2P.
  • RampajiRampaji copenhagnePosts: 50Member

    im happy to see its gonna be a Subscription to play. :) the price range now a days is payable anyway :)

     

    Looking forward to play this game!

    Be the change you want to see in the world.

    - Mahatma Gandhi

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster. 
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster. 

    By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me.  Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state.  If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for.  I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.

  • Kicksave321Kicksave321 Red wing, MNPosts: 262Member
    Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster. 

    By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me.  Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state.  If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for.  I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.

    Yeah I also enjoyed it, the ones who said it was a disaster are the same ones crying it won't be f2p so they can play it and then cry it won't be free enough.  The desperate attempt some have to lie and post misinformation about a video game is a joke.  These people have this entitlement mentality and feel they are entitled to get this game for free.  If not they will post lie after lie just sad really.  Well I'm glad it will be sub so we don't have to deal with that crowd.  There is a reason most games don't allow f2pers in game forums.  

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