Nope but i informed myself about it and i cant be arsed to run wow2.0
People do a lot of that around here....
OT: this looks a lot like how PWI does things with its zen and AD. Those games always feel like a job to me. When it has a direct conversion to real money I can't help but think " oh that quest was worth $0.03 and it took almost an hr to finish "
I hate the immersion argument but, that does kill it for me.
lol, you owned that dude.
I think you hit on the biggest weakness of this. Where most cash shops are straight forward and you either buy it or not, the currency conversion method seems to bring about that real money thinking to me more.
When I play Neverwinter, I'm often thinking, "Is this a better purchase through Zen, or should I use AD? What is current conversion rate and should I convert to Zen/AD or buy Zen and convert?"
For those that really enjoy a more economics focused gameplay this can be wonderful. There are people who like playing markets and to them, that is a huge part of an mmo. I like dabbling, but the whole system can be a bit much. For those that like herping the raid farm and selling the derp to the unwashed masses that have no access to the herp, this system will be anathema. On the plus side it really keeps items at market value and it is much harder for any one mega guild to control it. On the down side it's easier to make a bad purchase and waste your money or resources if you're uninformed.
It is a complicated enough system to make me not trust it at all. Like bills in congress that are thousands of pages long. No good comes of the obfuscation.
Did you read the article or look at your own infographic? It says gold is used to buy items from NPC's however you state "you can't use gold to buy stuff ingame." Also you can obtain arches without spending RL money just like you can obtain other F2P games currencies in other methods as well. Like I said before this is basically the same old F2P model as every other title out there. Is it exactly the same? No, but at that point we're pretty much nitpicking over details IMO. So again I fail to see how NA players are going to revolt over this at all.
*Please keep in mind at no point am I stating I'm for or against the model I just fail to see what all the fuss is about compared to any other F2P on the market.
I read and i know what im talking, but seems like you don't know how things work in the game, the things you could buy with gold with this system are: plant seeds, baby animals, repair your items, in short cheap non-worth basic stuff from NPC's and nothing from AH and Mirage Island (trade island). You wouldn't be able to buy items, crafting materials, housing related stuff, mounts, siege equipment, upgrading stuff... Everything what matters would require you to spend arches, and to obtain these arches you need to pay RL money, or to spend 24/7 farming them in low amounts.
But you are right about this being present in other F2P games, just in a bit different form.
Originally posted by Vutar I think the thing that always makes these models hilarious is that there are people still deceived into thinking the game is free to play. People on this site will defend to their grave the model called free to play when in reality it costs more to play than a sub game if you want the same benefits the sub game gives.
Again, as long as you play the game you should not have to spend $$ beyond a reduced sub option. If it is Like Wushu, those who claim "I don't have the time" will become whales and pay out the arse.
Did you read the article or look at your own infographic? It says gold is used to buy items from NPC's however you state "you can't use gold to buy stuff ingame." Also you can obtain arches without spending RL money just like you can obtain other F2P games currencies in other methods as well. Like I said before this is basically the same old F2P model as every other title out there. Is it exactly the same? No, but at that point we're pretty much nitpicking over details IMO. So again I fail to see how NA players are going to revolt over this at all.
*Please keep in mind at no point am I stating I'm for or against the model I just fail to see what all the fuss is about compared to any other F2P on the market.
I read and i know what im talking, but seems like you don't know how things work in the game, the things you could buy with gold with this system are: plant seeds, baby animals, repair your items, in short cheap non-worth basic stuff from NPC's and nothing from AH and Mirage Island (trade island). You wouldn't be able to buy items, crafting materials, housing related stuff, mounts, siege equipment, upgrading stuff... Everything what matters would require you to spend arches, and to obtain these arches you need to pay RL money, or to spend 24/7 farming them in low amounts.
But you are right about this being present in other F2P games, just in a bit different form.
the highlighted, only by playing the game will you be able to determine if this is true for you.
Did you read the article or look at your own infographic? It says gold is used to buy items from NPC's however you state "you can't use gold to buy stuff ingame." Also you can obtain arches without spending RL money just like you can obtain other F2P games currencies in other methods as well. Like I said before this is basically the same old F2P model as every other title out there. Is it exactly the same? No, but at that point we're pretty much nitpicking over details IMO. So again I fail to see how NA players are going to revolt over this at all.
*Please keep in mind at no point am I stating I'm for or against the model I just fail to see what all the fuss is about compared to any other F2P on the market.
I read and i know what im talking, but seems like you don't know how things work in the game, the things you could buy with gold with this system are: plant seeds, baby animals, repair your items, in short cheap non-worth basic stuff from NPC's and nothing from AH and Mirage Island (trade island). You wouldn't be able to buy items, crafting materials, housing related stuff, mounts, siege equipment, upgrading stuff... Everything what matters would require you to spend arches, and to obtain these arches you need to pay RL money, or to spend 24/7 farming them in low amounts.
But you are right about this being present in other F2P games, just in a bit different form.
the highlighted, only by playing the game will you be able to determine if this is true for you.
third option and the most likely
you will search for something to craft as cheap as possible and fast as possible that you can sell to the whales and new or dumb players for Arcs.
for me its an immersion breaker but seeing the payment model its the only way to progress fast without spending money on the game.
I really miss the times where you chose a profession based on your char concept and not the market value but i am to much of a optimizer (or maybe cheapskate) as that i would ignore money to time ratio if its related to real cash.
Guys Guys Guys. I will be short and sweet here. You want to make money. And share the wealth. You see the two don't mix. Unless ofcourse I came up with the idea.
Let me explain.
You can buy crystals for real money. You can by tokens for crytals. What are you smoking? Do you not get it? Just make everything liquid and make cash.
Originally posted by Vutar I think the thing that always makes these models hilarious is that there are people still deceived into thinking the game is free to play. People on this site will defend to their grave the model called free to play when in reality it costs more to play than a sub game if you want the same benefits the sub game gives.
I think it's hilarious that after at least 4 years spent on this site and 600 posts later you still pretend that F2P is something other than "no sub required to logon". That is fricken hilarious.
What is it the P2P proponents always say? It's just $15/mo. That's only 50 cents a day and if you can't afford that then you should find another hobby. So why are they so cheap if it comes to spending more than that $15?
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley How long will gamers put up with this F2P BS?
It's just a shell game tax for those who are bad at math.
Some of us aren't bad at math? Are you advocating dumbed down game mechanics for those who are too stupid to figure it out?
I like p2p, but I like playing good mmorpgs more. Payment models like this pose no risk to me, and when done appropriately give little concern. I'm a gamer, I put in the time to gain my reward.
On the other hand, systems like this are hell on those who "gotta have it now" those who say "I don't have enough time to play" and those who lack self control. Systems like this pray on these people (whales) and can fleeces them for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. No offense intended if you fall into one of these three groups, but I call these systems sucker systems. The game lives of these people while the majority have a good time for little to nothing in terms of $$.
The concept that just because you can earn currency to buy premium items, which also can be bought with real money, somehow makes it "fair" and not pay to win is a fallacy.
Why? Well take STO as an example. The best ships in that game are, atleast, partly bought by RL money. Either directly or indirectly, by converting RL money to IG currency. Technically you can buy those ships by just playing the game but it is a massive grind to buy just one end game ship.
An example. If you want to buy the Romulan D'Deridex Retrofit it will cost you 2000 zen (roughly $20). Now you can farm dilithium, refine it and convert it to zen. But the ratio is about 130 dilithium for 1 zen which means you need to have about 260.000 dilithium and a typical repeatable mission gives you in the range of 500-1400 dilithium and they are on timers which means you can only do them once every 10-20 hours. But even so it would take roughly 200 of those missions, which are on timer, to get one premium ship.
Takes maybe an average of 15 min to do one of those missions. 15x200 is 3000 mins which is 50 hours doing missions, over and over for ONE ship.
Another caveat is that you can only get 8000 dilithium/day (a process called refining dilithium). So even if you would mindlessly grind you would still have to wait 260k/8k which is 20 days.
So pick either one. 50 hours of grinding with a minimum wait of 20 days for ONE ship or 20 bucks and get it instantly. Obviously any person which has a life outside of gaming and only a reasonable tolerance for grinding is going to fork out the cash and thus have a big advantage for those who does not want to grind until their eyes bleed or dont think a virtual space ship is worth $20.
And that is pay to win, even if you can technically get the same things by not paying.
On the other hand, systems like this are hell on those who "gotta have it now" those who say "I don't have enough time to play" and those who lack self control. Systems like this pray on these people (whales) and can fleeces them for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. No offense intended if you fall into one of these three groups, but I call these systems sucker systems. The game lives of these people while the majority have a good time for little to nothing in terms of $$.
I don't see a problem with this. People like that are going to lose their money anyway. Why not lose it to a company making a game I want to play ?
And thats another game that is not getting my moneys.....
What is it with this pay to win bullshit, loved the days where a subscription was enough.
Companies got (more) greedy and gamers got lazy and felt entitled to get to endgame and get endgame items just by opening their wallets. That's what happened.
Originally posted by Vutar I think the thing that always makes these models hilarious is that there are people still deceived into thinking the game is free to play. People on this site will defend to their grave the model called free to play when in reality it costs more to play than a sub game if you want the same benefits the sub game gives.
I think it's hilarious that after at least 4 years spent on this site and 600 posts later you still pretend that F2P is something other than "no sub required to logon". That is fricken hilarious.
What is it the P2P proponents always say? It's just $15/mo. That's only 50 cents a day and if you can't afford that then you should find another hobby. So why are they so cheap if it comes to spending more than that $15?
Because $20 for one fucking virtual ship or hero unlock, out of maybe 20-30 is ridicilous. I dont mind spending $1500 on my gaming rig because I know it is going to last me a couple of years and tons of games and gaming hours. But I am not going to bloody spend $20 for one bloody virtual item. And if I dont, then I know there will be other people who have more money than sense and who I will have to compete with.
Also, if you're just going to print large chunks of words directly from game devs, at least clean it up a little. God forbid you do an actual interview but you could at least paraphrase or sic.
If this is the path they end up going then I have to respectfully decline any interest and involvement in this game. Neverwinter has something similar with numerous currencies doing different things. In the long run it ends up being a pay to pay until my wallets is dry for the same thing I could pay $14.99 a month for in a sub. game, BUT you will spend on average $100.00 a month for the same items/features/content. I will mess with F2P games, but when you do the math it is not worth throwing money or serious time into them.
There is a big problem and picture if one chooses to look at the truth.
If there is no reason to black market then there is nothing worth anything in game and all worthwhile stuff will be RMT only.The simple reason is that RMT don't have to trade just gold to make money,they can use the gold and sell items just as easily,unless as i said there is nothing worthwhile in game aside from rmt.
So there is two points,either black market will always exist or the game is a real shambles in that in game is worthless and you MUST spend untold amounts to get anything worthwhile.
Even if another player wanted gold there are ways around it,like black market person buys 5000 sticks of wood,trades yo uthat wood for RMT and then you sell that wood back to NPC for gold.Unless you totally remove all trading period,there is no way around removing the black market,only law suits could do that.
A really good game cannot pretend to operate free if selling the wanted items through cash shop.Many of us no longer accept the "we expect it attitude",i prefer straight out the truth nothing misleading or i will not support it,this goes for any game not just AA.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And thats another game that is not getting my moneys.....
What is it with this pay to win bullshit, loved the days where a subscription was enough.
Companies got (more) greedy and gamers got lazy and felt entitled to get to endgame and get endgame items just by opening their wallets. That's what happened.
It's really quite simple. A PvP/region owning game where you can buy strategic advantages with real money is unbelievably.... (how to put it to not get another warning....) distorted.
But I also lost almost all interest in AA after it went live and they started their "improvements".
And thats another game that is not getting my moneys.....
What is it with this pay to win bullshit, loved the days where a subscription was enough.
Companies got (more) greedy and gamers got lazy and felt entitled to get to endgame and get endgame items just by opening their wallets. That's what happened.
This
I feel like I'm actually to lazy for this p2w scheme. The first thing I thought when I saw the chart posted in this thread was, Isn't there some way I can just pay you some money every month and play the game? I can't be bothered to figure out what the hell all those currencies mean to me as a player. Maybe I'd feel compelled to figure it out if I was already a player, but seeing it up front.. it reminds me of trying to figure out the best car insurance or something, no thanks.
Comments
Bingo very well said.
All die, so die well.
I read and i know what im talking, but seems like you don't know how things work in the game, the things you could buy with gold with this system are: plant seeds, baby animals, repair your items, in short cheap non-worth basic stuff from NPC's and nothing from AH and Mirage Island (trade island). You wouldn't be able to buy items, crafting materials, housing related stuff, mounts, siege equipment, upgrading stuff... Everything what matters would require you to spend arches, and to obtain these arches you need to pay RL money, or to spend 24/7 farming them in low amounts.
But you are right about this being present in other F2P games, just in a bit different form.
4. Tears (daily quests, exploration, etc)
5. Gold Coins (from trading, it's different from the other gold currency)
6. Lulu Coins (cash shop coins, probably going to get removed after adding the arches)
hmmm which ones did i forget... (Rice Cake, Labor Points)
Again, as long as you play the game you should not have to spend $$ beyond a reduced sub option. If it is Like Wushu, those who claim "I don't have the time" will become whales and pay out the arse.
the highlighted, only by playing the game will you be able to determine if this is true for you.
third option and the most likely
you will search for something to craft as cheap as possible and fast as possible that you can sell to the whales and new or dumb players for Arcs.
for me its an immersion breaker but seeing the payment model its the only way to progress fast without spending money on the game.
I really miss the times where you chose a profession based on your char concept and not the market value but i am to much of a optimizer (or maybe cheapskate) as that i would ignore money to time ratio if its related to real cash.
It's just a shell game tax for those who are bad at math.
Guys Guys Guys. I will be short and sweet here. You want to make money. And share the wealth. You see the two don't mix. Unless ofcourse I came up with the idea.
Let me explain.
You can buy crystals for real money. You can by tokens for crytals. What are you smoking? Do you not get it? Just make everything liquid and make cash.
exactly.
I like p2p, but I like playing good mmorpgs more. Payment models like this pose no risk to me, and when done appropriately give little concern. I'm a gamer, I put in the time to gain my reward.
On the other hand, systems like this are hell on those who "gotta have it now" those who say "I don't have enough time to play" and those who lack self control. Systems like this pray on these people (whales) and can fleeces them for hundreds if not thousands of dollars. No offense intended if you fall into one of these three groups, but I call these systems sucker systems. The game lives of these people while the majority have a good time for little to nothing in terms of $$.
The concept that just because you can earn currency to buy premium items, which also can be bought with real money, somehow makes it "fair" and not pay to win is a fallacy.
Why? Well take STO as an example. The best ships in that game are, atleast, partly bought by RL money. Either directly or indirectly, by converting RL money to IG currency. Technically you can buy those ships by just playing the game but it is a massive grind to buy just one end game ship.
An example. If you want to buy the Romulan D'Deridex Retrofit it will cost you 2000 zen (roughly $20). Now you can farm dilithium, refine it and convert it to zen. But the ratio is about 130 dilithium for 1 zen which means you need to have about 260.000 dilithium and a typical repeatable mission gives you in the range of 500-1400 dilithium and they are on timers which means you can only do them once every 10-20 hours. But even so it would take roughly 200 of those missions, which are on timer, to get one premium ship.
Takes maybe an average of 15 min to do one of those missions. 15x200 is 3000 mins which is 50 hours doing missions, over and over for ONE ship.
Another caveat is that you can only get 8000 dilithium/day (a process called refining dilithium). So even if you would mindlessly grind you would still have to wait 260k/8k which is 20 days.
So pick either one. 50 hours of grinding with a minimum wait of 20 days for ONE ship or 20 bucks and get it instantly. Obviously any person which has a life outside of gaming and only a reasonable tolerance for grinding is going to fork out the cash and thus have a big advantage for those who does not want to grind until their eyes bleed or dont think a virtual space ship is worth $20.
And that is pay to win, even if you can technically get the same things by not paying.
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I don't see a problem with this. People like that are going to lose their money anyway. Why not lose it to a company making a game I want to play ?
And thats another game that is not getting my moneys.....
What is it with this pay to win bullshit, loved the days where a subscription was enough.
Companies got (more) greedy and gamers got lazy and felt entitled to get to endgame and get endgame items just by opening their wallets. That's what happened.
My gaming blog
Because $20 for one fucking virtual ship or hero unlock, out of maybe 20-30 is ridicilous. I dont mind spending $1500 on my gaming rig because I know it is going to last me a couple of years and tons of games and gaming hours. But I am not going to bloody spend $20 for one bloody virtual item. And if I dont, then I know there will be other people who have more money than sense and who I will have to compete with.
F2P is shit. It should be banned.
My gaming blog
There is a big problem and picture if one chooses to look at the truth.
If there is no reason to black market then there is nothing worth anything in game and all worthwhile stuff will be RMT only.The simple reason is that RMT don't have to trade just gold to make money,they can use the gold and sell items just as easily,unless as i said there is nothing worthwhile in game aside from rmt.
So there is two points,either black market will always exist or the game is a real shambles in that in game is worthless and you MUST spend untold amounts to get anything worthwhile.
Even if another player wanted gold there are ways around it,like black market person buys 5000 sticks of wood,trades yo uthat wood for RMT and then you sell that wood back to NPC for gold.Unless you totally remove all trading period,there is no way around removing the black market,only law suits could do that.
A really good game cannot pretend to operate free if selling the wanted items through cash shop.Many of us no longer accept the "we expect it attitude",i prefer straight out the truth nothing misleading or i will not support it,this goes for any game not just AA.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This
It's really quite simple. A PvP/region owning game where you can buy strategic advantages with real money is unbelievably.... (how to put it to not get another warning....) distorted.
But I also lost almost all interest in AA after it went live and they started their "improvements".
I feel like I'm actually to lazy for this p2w scheme. The first thing I thought when I saw the chart posted in this thread was, Isn't there some way I can just pay you some money every month and play the game? I can't be bothered to figure out what the hell all those currencies mean to me as a player. Maybe I'd feel compelled to figure it out if I was already a player, but seeing it up front.. it reminds me of trying to figure out the best car insurance or something, no thanks.
Just realized why he said "dual currency system"
because there will be only 2 that matter and you can bet that none of them will be Gold or Tears..