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A thinking man's mmorpg

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  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Aison2
    Forget the combat, tsw has actually riddles as quests. You just have to check where to find them. Some of them needed morse code, history knowledge,... to solve. I can't remember how to find them but you could easily mostly do only riddles to progress and i enjoyed doing so. That aside the eve suggestion is actually the closest you will get to winning fights due prior carefull calculation and not twitch combat skills.

     If I remember correctly while TSW has quests like that they're more or less like RIFT's rift system. In the sense that they're really just a gimmick. A secondary feature that really didn't have much emphasis late game.

    Well you don't remember correctly.  There's ARGs and Puzzles throughout the whole game.  There is nothing in TSW that's like Rift's rift system.

    This thread is a joke.  TSW is the game you're looking for.  If you can't be bothered to dig deeper into the game, that's your loss.

     I think you missed the point but continue to be ignorant anyways ;).

    The point that everything you said was false?  Nah, I picked up on your ignorance a mile away. 

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Aison2
    Forget the combat, tsw has actually riddles as quests. You just have to check where to find them. Some of them needed morse code, history knowledge,... to solve. I can't remember how to find them but you could easily mostly do only riddles to progress and i enjoyed doing so. That aside the eve suggestion is actually the closest you will get to winning fights due prior carefull calculation and not twitch combat skills.

     If I remember correctly while TSW has quests like that they're more or less like RIFT's rift system. In the sense that they're really just a gimmick. A secondary feature that really didn't have much emphasis late game.

    Well you don't remember correctly.  There's ARGs and Puzzles throughout the whole game.  There is nothing in TSW that's like Rift's rift system.

    This thread is a joke.  TSW is the game you're looking for.  If you can't be bothered to dig deeper into the game, that's your loss.

     I think you missed the point but continue to be ignorant anyways ;).

    The point that everything you said was false?  Nah, I picked up on your ignorance a mile away. 

     You've still missed my point and now argue for the sake of arguing? 

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • SomeHumanSomeHuman Austin, TXPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    • MTibbs, thanks for the recommendation of Wakfu.  I did forget about it. I played through it at launch for a couple of months, and I did like the combat and there was a good communinity.  The art was fun, too.  Maybe I'll go back and try that again.
    • As far as TSW goes, I feel compelled to give it at least another hour or so because you guys are sooo damned supportive of it.  I really do want to like the game.  I've encountered zero difficulty and zero riddles, etc. so far.  There are even  signposts to the locations for quests.  I hate breadcrumbs.  I think it is one of the worst features of the genre.
    • EVE - I've been in and out of this game for trials and some short subscriptions over the years, but it never stuck.    Thanks for everyone's help.

    Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel:

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,098Member Uncommon

    Try Vanguard. The Secret World is just another themepark.

     

    https://www.vanguardthegame.com/home

    Raptr Gamercard
  • DjevikDjevik Maurertown, VAPosts: 101Member Uncommon

    I know this isn't a mmorpg but it diff a thinking mans game..

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/

    the way it makes you think and twist logic and what not is pretty epic

    even thought a normal player could beat it in a 10 years and someone thats awesome at thinking/puzzle games can finish it way faster but give you something to do for only 5 bucks :P

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kilrane

    EvE.

     

     

    You're welcome.

    yes ,Eve is only unique mmorpg on market ,where you must  use brain

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • SomeHumanSomeHuman Austin, TXPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Djevik

    I know this isn't a mmorpg but it diff a thinking mans game..

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/219890/

    the way it makes you think and twist logic and what not is pretty epic

    even thought a normal player could beat it in a 10 years and someone thats awesome at thinking/puzzle games can finish it way faster but give you something to do for only 5 bucks :P

    Djevik, Anti-chamber looks pretty amazing.  It will most likely be worth the five bucks.  Thanks for the suggestion.

     

    Oh, and I put another hour into TSW.  It was just more of collection quests with bread crumbs.  I saw one dynamic event with a Golden man that turned into a golem.  The combat just got easier as I plunked down my AP and got some more skills.  I still didn't encounter any mysteries or puzzles.  It makes me wonder, "Shouldn't a game reveal it's essence to the gamer in the first hours?"  The TSW fans keep saying just put more time into it.  I'd compare it to a novel.  If I'm not into it after the first 50 pages, there is little for me to find there or the author didn't do his/her job.  Wouldn't it be smart to make the player solve a puzzle or discover a secret in the first scenario of this game?  It is a beautiful game.  It has a level of maturity I like.  It has a good story.  I also like its skill tree.  Anywho... rambling ending.

    Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel:

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,593Member Uncommon

    If you've already tried EVE and Wakfu, I'd suggest Wizard 101.

    Wizard 101 has card-game type turn based combat. You build your deck, and then once in battle get to choose from 7 cards drawn randomly from your deck. Because the cards are drawn randomly, you'll have to constantly think and adjust your strategy based on which 7 cards you have available that turn. Add to that a high failure chance for some cards (up to 30% for storm type attack cards), and every battle becomes different and requires you to make decisions even if you're grinding same enemies.

    But Wizard 101 is a children's game. I'm recommending it because the combat system is really good, and at higher levels it's complex with possibility to have multiple buff cards effecting one attack and the buffs' effects being multiplicative. But outside of the combat system, it's a shallow game. Good for a few hours of fun, but imho not good for playing seriously for longer times.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SomeHuman
    • I played through about three hours of the TSW trial and was unenthralled.  Mash button, don't die, level, level, collect supplies, select skills, find pieces of paper, mash button,  ugh... (pretty and mature, but boring as hell)
    • .....

      

    Khm, not sure, what would you do in game if not collect supplies, select skills, fins piece of paper, bottles, do not die, level, level, ...?

    For the rest ONLY thing that really bothers me in TSW (obviously besides initial problems with windows 32bit versions constantly crashing, bugs, ...) is BUTTON MASHING, caused by only 7 active buttons (now I heard about 8, wow :-)).

  • AlumicardAlumicard wea, ALPosts: 292Member Uncommon

    Didnt DnD Online have a kind of riddles or not so easy quests? It has been some time since I read about it and it might have changed or even might be a totally different game Im thinking of but somehow DnD came to mind.

  • paulrgodpaulrgod sheffieldPosts: 238Member

    FFXI is your game.

    There is a free trial period coming up soon from the 6th to the 23rd December.

    http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/campaign/11th/wcb.html

     

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,060Member Uncommon

    I would say EVE is only real MMO that doesnt turn you into vegetable. Unfortunately its based on agression.

    I wish there was a sandbox MMO of EVE complexity where your only goal is not to make everyone else miserable.

     

    Secret World has terrible terrible gameplay. And as wor puzzles. They are rather good. But since it feels like singleplayer game. Why not play singleplayer game with actually good puzzles ?

    image

  • UserUndeletedUserUndeleted SomewherePosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by SomeHuman
    Originally posted by jadiusmax

    Threads like this are hilarious...obviously a 'thinking man' would understand that the first few hours of a good mmo are going to help you learn the game.  A 'thinking man' could easily see the complexity of the ability wheel creating synergies between different weapon types passive abilities.  A'thinking man' I'm sure can comprehend that in an mmo market that is painfully cookie cutter and uninspired that anything tossing some new ideas into the mix might just deserve more than 3 hours of testing. 

     

    Look ok the game has some things to complain about.  But to say its a mindless same old same old game is simply not evaluating the product that exists.  Play through kingsmouth and then evaluate it.  You might find something special.  

     

    A mind is like a parachute:  it only works when it's open.

    So, other than not accepting that I'm not into TSW; this wasn't much help.  I'm sorry to waste your time.

    Three hours is a reasonable time to form an opinion of a game. That's one of the problems with MMO's, they want your life.

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSuh-QeJwlA

     

    Dominions 3.

    -This is NOT an MMORPG, nor even an MMO at all- But its what you want.

     

    Op, I feel much the same as you and someone turned me on to this game- It has Multi-player (we generally 'play by email' with a pretty huge group) and I have games going which have lasted more than a year.

     

    FIRST- This is one of the most complex strategy games I have ever seen. hands down. I have NOT even close to mastered the game and am still 'getting' the basics over a year after starting- BUT its simple enough to 'pick up and play' if you take the time to gloss over the rules and perhaps watch a tutorial or two.

    SECOND- This game was made with huge , long lasting multiplayer games in mind. 'Single Player' is more of a way to learn the game. This means the TOOLS are there for every complex action you could possibly want to do in a multi-player enviornment. PLUS the 'political' stuff which goes on via private email- The deals, trades and double crosses- man, good stuff.

     

    Give it a whirl if you want an ubur-complex multi player, strategy experience.... Or not. =P

     

    EDIT- Also keep in mind- After the 'early game' (which moves quickly) you can literally spend HOURS taking 1 turn- The micro-managment aspect can be a deep and complex as you wish...And not in a 'boring' way where you are constantly clicking the same things every turn. The strategy aspect is so well designed that controling your empire is a joy- But you do not nesasarily have to delve that deeply into the mechanics if you do not wish.

    Also- No "P2W" to get an advantage or anything else. No subscription (buy the game and its yours) Mod support (multiplayer games need to agree on the Mods used so they synche) .

     

    Game is seriously amazing if you can get into it.

     

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SomeHuman
     

    Oh, and I put another hour into TSW.  It was just more of collection quests with bread crumbs.  I saw one dynamic event with a Golden man that turned into a golem.  The combat just got easier as I plunked down my AP and got some more skills.  I still didn't encounter any mysteries or puzzles.  It makes me wonder, "Shouldn't a game reveal it's essence to the gamer in the first hours?"  The TSW fans keep saying just put more time into it.  I'd compare it to a novel.  If I'm not into it after the first 50 pages, there is little for me to find there or the author didn't do his/her job.  Wouldn't it be smart to make the player solve a puzzle or discover a secret in the first scenario of this game?  It is a beautiful game.  It has a level of maturity I like.  It has a good story.  I also like its skill tree.  Anywho... rambling ending.

    Yeah, one thing about all MMOs that I do agree with you on is the idea of clearly marked questgivers and map pointers.  In TSWs case, the investigations are the missions with the little laptop icon on -- there are 3 types (action, investigation and sabotage).

    It's a failing of the genre, really.  All NPCs could potentially hand you a quest -- why not bake all this lore and mystery into the world itself, and let us discover it instead of pasting all these signposts around?  I liked the old school Ultima (I-VII) style of having the players talk to the NPCs and using our heads to figure out the story.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    Why not...because a website walkthrough will be out in a day...so what is the point.
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    Why not...because a website walkthrough will be out in a day...so what is the point.

    Are you playing a game or a walkthrough site?

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    In todays world you live in a dream if you think the majority of people will spend 10 minuted ingame searching over 1 googling. Look at eve with guides, programs to plan training, and databases.
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    In todays world you live in a dream if you think the majority of people will spend 10 minuted ingame searching over 1 googling. Look at eve with guides, programs to plan training, and databases.

    And yet everyday, people complete the NYT crossword puzzle without looking up answers on wikipedia.  They like the challenge of figuring it out.  Just because people like to cheat, doesn't mean we should stop making games that challenge people's brains.  Nothing wrong with a guide, and looking stuff up, but that doesn't mean developers should stop giving us interesting puzzles.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    its another SPRPG, but any of the X-series of space strategy / space sim games might interest you as well.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    The problem is does the number that wants the puzzle out number those that want the fastest and best (relative term) to the top. Crossword costs little to make and maintain compaired to an mmo.
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    The problem is does the number that wants the puzzle out number those that want the fastest and best (relative term) to the top. Crossword costs little to make and maintain compaired to an mmo.

    That's a development challenge though.   I don't see how making signposts and questgivers all over the place adds longevity to your game.  If you bake it in, it takes longer for players to figure it out and post the walkthroughs.  I'd argue that it will boost value and longevity to bake your scenarios into the world.  And any dev worth his salt would be able to build a system that is easy and inexpensive to maintain and update.

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
    I am not saying your idea is bad. In this current market flash in the pan is what is being made. Long and difficult might make good niche but do not demand a lot upfront in way of graphics and development. Pacman beat out chess.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Posts: 1,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VastoHorde

    Try Vanguard. The Secret World is just another themepark.

     

    https://www.vanguardthegame.com/home

    ^this.

    If you are looking for an MMO where you have to pay attention and might die in PVE try Vanguard.  It is probably the hardest PVE game on the market, that I have tried.  There are a ton of PVP games that can be difficult, but many of them are broken at their core. 

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