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Promising game ruined by P2W payment model

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Comments

  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAMember Posts: 301
    Originally posted by Woopin
    OP has no clue what Pay to Win even is. This is no where near pay to win at all.

    Pretty much what anyone who knows what "Pay to Win" means will agree with.  Why are people so worried about how others play their games?  I understand real P2W mmos cause for concern.  But, buying XP boosts is the last thing that is P2W lol.  OP needs to google what P2W means.

    image
  • KruulKruul Houston, TXMember Posts: 476 Uncommon

    Just don't PVP until you catch up to the people who paid for the exp pots. People forget that  a level advantage attained from buying exp pots is in every way P2W.

     

    Are you folks that new to the genre?

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Kruul
    Just don't PVP until you catch up to the people who paid for the exp pots. People forget that  a level advantage attained from buying exp pots is in every way P2W.   Are you folks that new to the genre?

    It sure is...if you have no idea what p2w really is.

  • GilbortrundGilbortrund Virdone, LAMember Posts: 23
    I agree, excessive P2W is a deal breaker for me. Marvel Heroes arpg is the same way, pay for experience gain, convenience items, vanity gear, pets and additional storage.  It's annoying when the games core is set up to suck you into their store.
  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLMember Posts: 330 Uncommon

    So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level.

    Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.

  • zastenzasten nowhereMember Posts: 283

    The way I play tends to leave xp boosters clogging up my backpack, because I rarely if ever use them!

    Undecided on how I feel about getting better drops from bought items!

     

    btw, is the game point of view stuck in a downward angle, if so, then this is most likely what would kill it for me, I prefer to have an occasional horizon and the ability to see some things from a distance to get my bearings.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAMember Posts: 1,794 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zasten
    The way I play tends to leave xp boosters clogging up my backpack, because I rarely if ever use them! Undecided on how I feel about getting better drops from bought items!   btw, is the game point of view stuck in a downward angle, if so, then this is most likely what would kill it for me, I prefer to have an occasional horizon and the ability to see some things from a distance to get my bearings.

     

    yes its top down or 2d or diablo style.  Its basically an Ultima clone

    edit: I dont mean that as a bad thing

  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthMember Posts: 244
    XP boost are not Pay to win and buy saying this makes me doubt you have actually played a pay to win game

    image
  • tom_goretom_gore TampereMember Posts: 1,979 Uncommon

    As said, boosts are not P2W. Games today need to be designed for people with different amounts of time available to "invest" into the game. Nolifers can still play 24/7 without paying a penny and rule. Those with full-time jobs and families can opt to pay RL money to keep their progress fluid. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Let's get back to this when they start selling BiS items through the cash shop.

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABMember Posts: 437

    you know that old saying, you get nothing for free?

     learn it, live it.

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Originally posted by Kuviski
      Originally posted by TableFlipZok Originally posted by Kuviski Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.   I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.   I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.     Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
    But if you are too lazy to spend a few more hours to get to max level and raise your skills in a game. Then this is clearly not for you.

    I don't see how this is related to the issue.

    I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.

    What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.

    The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.

    If you've created some personal competition against the other players to see who gets to cap faster, then I can see how you'd consider this pay to win. However, please keep in mind that has nothing to do with the design of the game or its business model.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Originally posted by Betakodo
    So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level. Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.

    Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember Posts: 2,504 Rare

    lmao .. what a waste on internet space ...p2w ...... Eldevin ... aint that friggin rich ........ thats    1..

     

      2.    if you cant afford to invest a few dolllors in a leisure activity , you may want to focus on other parts of your life , rather than pissing about a couple dollars on a game forum ... lmfao .... wow .. people need to get there priorities straight ...

  • HCS-RadnetoHCS-Radneto ElginMember Posts: 64

    We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.

     

    Currently working around the clock on Eldevin

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember Posts: 2,504 Rare
    Originally posted by HCS-Radneto
    We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.  

    you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INMember Posts: 1,005 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Originally posted by HCS-Radneto
    We are aware everyone has different opinions on pay to win. We've worked really hard on this game and think we've made it really fair to players who want to pay and those who don't. What I'd love is for you guys to come try the game this Saturday and decide for yourselves.  

    you have built a great game .. whiners will always whine becuase they want everything handed to them .... they will fill your forums with rage and tears over a couple backpack spaces because they think they are entitled to it ..

    I agree. They are doing a great job with this game!  I'll be there Saturday for sure.

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

    "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember Posts: 1,612 Uncommon

    As someone that has played quite a few f2p games this one doesn't seem very p2w to me, everything seems rather reasonable, it reminds me a little of  DDO f2p system actually.

     

    You want to see p2w games, go play some PW games or aeriagames.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • RPGForeverRPGForever PortoviejoMember Posts: 120 Common
    It is not P2W it is only giving the subscribers the chance to take a shortcut to something inevitable you are getting if you play the game often enough.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCMember Posts: 4,818

    The whole xp pot argument is pretty stupid. In a lvl based system someone higher lvl always has an advantage in pvp, till max lvl. That includes anyone with more time than you. The xp pot doesn't give you any advantage other players can't overcome through time played and someone that is your level isn't at a disadvantage when they fight you.

    The whole argument is a knee-jerk reaction to..." but you said it was free"

     

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLMember Posts: 330 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Betakodo
    So in Lineage II, the world's grindiest game (Or it used to before GoD update), if I could buy a buff that gave me +25% exp that wouldn't be PAYing to win? Keep in mind that most of your power in Lineage II is from your level. Also keep in mind that in Chronicle II people were getting like 1-3% exp per hour near max level. Do any of you guys actually PvP? Level is a major factor in winning, unless everyone has already reached the level cap.

    Is Eldevin a game where it takes a year to get to the level cap? I ask that because quite a few are praising it as a UO style game, and in UO (prior to AoS) you could have a very effective PVP character inside of a could of days. The difference between a guy with 80s across his main skills and the 7xGM (7 skills at 100) was minimal outside of the GM title and bragging rights. It definitely didn't determine the outcome of battle.

     

    People are saying 2-3 months for the average player to reach the level cap of 45, or is it 50 now? Either way, I can't attest to that, but there are exp potions that you can buy for cash, as well as bag space. If you subscribe you get +25% exp, craft/gather exp, gold and valor. "Convenience items" are also in the cash shop, whatever those may be. Oh yeah and if you subscribe you also get rested exp when logged out.

    Never played UO, but level matters due to attribute/talent points. Either way, I will be subscribing for the +exp powers then off to the PvP areas I go for some fun.

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHMember Posts: 2,039 Rare
    I love supporting a game once Ive played it and decided Im going to stick around; I don't like rested xp and exp boosts and such so a sub idea turns me off.  I dont mind taking time to reach max level.  If this is true with a sub I would most likely not do a sub and just donate . Im sure that is possible somehow. 
  • SomeHumanSomeHuman Austin, TXMember Posts: 488 Uncommon
    • I don't think this feels like pay-to-win (getting stuff non-payers can't).  But the OP does say, "I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game" and I like the notion of keeping the payers on  a channel/server or whatever and the non-payers separate.
    • I also feel for the Dev guy in this thread.  I think we SHOULD all go and check out the game Saturday and support this new mmorpg title from a small studio.  Even if we crash the servers while doing so.

    Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA

  • vladwwvladww La provenceMember Posts: 416 Uncommon

    XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around

    And i got 2 friends who won't join  because of it

    The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts

    Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough :

    the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts.

    Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo

     

    ****************************
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  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember Posts: 1,301 Rare
    Originally posted by vladww
    XP pots will always be pay to win in mmorpg's, however you turn it around And i got 2 friends who won't join  because of it The sad thing is that Eldevin didn't need to sell these XP boosts Cosmetics, storage, backpacks would have been enough : the smart way "Path of Exile" promoted their cash shop, and they are racking big money without these stupid xp boosts. Eldevin is a Great game but the cash shop is a disaster imo  

    XP boosts are not P2W.  They just help people with less time get to level cap.  What's gonna happen when PoE introduces XP potions?  Will you stop playing it?  (its only a matter of time till they do)

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,736 Uncommon

    not on eam F2P as my sig points out but...I'm ok with this model, really.

     

    if I can buy cash shop currency from players with in-game gold I'm literarly buying dollar-value with game-currency. and that measn the whole shop now can be accessed just with in-game activities.

     

    I'm fine with this model.

     

    'payers' will be super rich and I won't but...i have access to the whole game for free.

     

    That's Free to Play to me... they payed their way to riches, I played my way to in-game content/items. I'm ok with that. I think if F2P can be done right this is it.

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