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I must admit

stvnkrs10stvnkrs10 Stuart, FLPosts: 52Member Uncommon
The game looks kind of fun. It's nice to see a game focus on gameplay instead of worrying about killer 3d graphics. Reminds me of a new version of UO, but with bonuses :)

Comments

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member

    Yeah it looks like it could be a good fun romp. The artificial safety of 5v5 within territories irked me at first, but for the sake of fun gameplay, i think it will work for this game. The gear=class part is interesting, especially in regard to the crafting/pvp dynamic, and I hope they really concentrate on diversity and customization there. 

    As it stands now, I will try this game out.

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon

    Yes I agree. This game looks fun.

     

    I am a lil worried with the 5vs5 setup that one supergroup of five players will take over the whole world. I was in a premade in WOW and we played for months without losing a single battleground. So if a group like that starts taking zones and other guilds can't take them 5vs5 then they can get the whole world I guess. Unless they can lose the zones if they can't defend. Let's say two guild attacks two different zones at one time of the day (I think you could attack 3 times a day) they need to choose which one to defend.

     

    Besides that worry it looks extremely fun.

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    Yes I agree. This game looks fun.

     

    I am a lil worried with the 5vs5 setup that one supergroup of five players will take over the whole world. I was in a premade in WOW and we played for months without losing a single battleground. So if a group like that starts taking zones and other guilds can't take them 5vs5 then they can get the whole world I guess. Unless they can lose the zones if they can't defend. Let's say two guild attacks two different zones at one time of the day (I think you could attack 3 times a day) they need to choose which one to defend.

     

    Besides that worry it looks extremely fun.

    Haha if a guild is good enough to take over the world in fair fights five players at a time, then something is either really wrong with the playerbase or those guys friggin deserve to run the joint. ;)

    But at any rate, alliances are possible, so I would think that guilds would ally against such a super group. Resources and support can be shared thusly. 

    Would actually be fun and exciting to have a roaming threat taking territories left and right. Player-driven drama and community building! :)

  • BeelzebabbBeelzebabb CamberleyPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by PerfArt
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    Yes I agree. This game looks fun.

     

    I am a lil worried with the 5vs5 setup that one supergroup of five players will take over the whole world. I was in a premade in WOW and we played for months without losing a single battleground. So if a group like that starts taking zones and other guilds can't take them 5vs5 then they can get the whole world I guess. Unless they can lose the zones if they can't defend. Let's say two guild attacks two different zones at one time of the day (I think you could attack 3 times a day) they need to choose which one to defend.

     

    Besides that worry it looks extremely fun.

    Haha if a guild is good enough to take over the world in fair fights five players at a time, then something is either really wrong with the playerbase or those guys friggin deserve to run the joint. ;)

    But at any rate, alliances are possible, so I would think that guilds would ally against such a super group. Resources and support can be shared thusly. 

    Would actually be fun and exciting to have a roaming threat taking territories left and right. Player-driven drama and community building! :)

    Hey PerfArt & lindhsky,

     

    We've thought very hard about the 5x5 concept. Obviously it has always been meant to avoid zerging tactics by larger guilds, and give smaller guilds a chance, however this does bring up the possibility of having an elite group of 5 players who win a very high percentage of the battles they participate in. Obviously in any game there will be certain mechanics which are mastered by a few players; we can't avoid that, and wouldn't really want to, it's a great way of introducing real competition amongst players. However, we have built in mechanics which will go some way to avoiding the situation you've described, where one guild has a group of 5 who win all of their fights and thus take over all the territories in their area. 

    So first of all we have a Defense Bonus system. A Defense Bonus is a stat attributed to each territory a guild owns. If a guild tries to take over territories a lot, their own Defense Bonus will fall, making them weaker in GvG fights, and  easier for other guilds to come in and take their territories away from them. Hopefully this will mean that, if a guild is being very aggressive, they'll lose territory just as quickly as they're gaining it.

    We'll also actually have penalties for a guild if they own a lot of territory. Territories will have a kind of 'rent' cost, so over a certain point, owning lots of territories will be just as much a burden as it is a benefit. Keeping a balance will be key. 

    In the unlikely event that a guild gains all of the territory in a region, we'll impose more penalties, such as reductions in mob spawn rate and/or resource respawn/ loot drop rate in that region, which will hopefully deter the guild from sticking around too long!

    Nothing's set in stone yet, but rest assured we will do our best to ensure that the world isn't ruled by a few elite guilds. I'd like to add that we also don't intend to allow the land to "run out", but cope with the demand for territory by constantly keeping the world updated with new territory if more is needed.

    I hope that helps to allay your fears about Albion Online's GvG system. Thanks for your interest in the game!

     

    Yasmin,

    Community Management team, Albion Online 

     

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    With all due respect, on paper this sounds like a considerable amount of aggression deterence for an open-world PvP system. Imposing penalties for such a wide range of circumstances introduces potentially as much system-centric conflict resolution as player-centric resolution and could detract from the dynamic and exciting impact of instability in a competitive world. That is to say, too much dissuasion and system-regulated balance could result in a game of predictability and complacency, or at least reduced zeal in regard to expansionist efforts. I am sure this has all been considered, mind you. I am just thinking in text. I very much appreciate the response and look forward to giving the game a go :)
  • BercilakBercilak Albion Online BerlinPosts: 108Member

    Hi PerfArt,

     

    I am Stefan one of the founders of Sandbox Interactive and you are absolutely right in every aspect. Yasmin mixed up some things here it seems. 

     

    To write it in your own words. 

    "Haha if a guild is good enough to take over the world in fair fights five players at a time, then something is either really wrong with the playerbase or those guys friggin deserve to run the joint. ;)"

     

    And this is how we see  it. There are no penalties for owning a lot of territories. And if a guild owns more territories we will not punish them for their success (obv not) cause then as you mentioned it either something is completely wrong with the rest of the player or they deserve it. We actually hope that there will be empires raise and then also fall at one point (who knows). 

     

    But let me also point out a 3 other things

     

    • Having a territory with your own village and buildings is important but it is only part of the game. Since the key resources are out in the open world.
    • As most games with a player driven economy Albion Online also has durability-loss/decay of items. So leading a war against another guild will be also cost intensive, so having a good supply of resources is as important as having some skill. Just by using weapons or armor they will loose durability faster. 
    • If you own a lot of territories you can also be attacked from a lot of sides. Just from a logicistcal stand point you wont be able to show up to all these fights with just 5 people if you own a lot of territories. Even owning more then 2 will be problematic. 
     
    Actually our tests showed already that the mechanics we have in place work "a lot" like intended. So large guilds doing their thing, while smaller ones resist or coexist next to them. 
     
    Kind regards,
    Stefan
     
    PS.: And please don't forget that the 5vs5 system only is for the fights over territories and that the rest of the world is open as any other game, where you find World Boss Monsters, The highest Tier ressources or large castles with interesting key structures you can siege. 
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member

    Okay, this looks damn interesting.

    Any idea what the payment model will be??? Please...Please...Please don't say "F2P" (although I am fairly certain that is the route it will take along with every other new game on the horizen damn near-)

     

    Anyhow, yeah. Looks like an updated UO and I actually like the idea of cross platform so long as I am not "locked" into the client I started on (i.e. That I could actually play the same account on a computer and sometime on an iphone)

  • KaizermosKaizermos MarsdenPosts: 5Member
    F2P is the best system... as long as it is done fairly.  Look at games like path of exile and tell me there is any element of P2W.  From memory Albion has a very unique F2P model, all you can buy is in game gold or somthing like that.  They have stated it before somewhere.
  • MalacthMalacth LiverpoolPosts: 116Member

    I've only just heard of this game, and watched a few videos of it, looks really interesting and fun.

     

    I really prefer this art style / graphic style to full 3D realistic graphics (But I also prefer EQN's graphics so maybe I'm part of the minority.)

     

    I'm really looking forward to this! Finally a decent MMO I can play on my PC and Kindle Fire :D

  • RylahRylah Tribal VillagePosts: 193Member Uncommon

    All those artificial constraints and disadvantages not only take away from the "sandboxyness" and player driven content, but if and when some of the weathered pvp guilds should get an interest in Albion they will be used in metagame and you will struggle to keep up.

    Guilds will either trade territories or big guilds will split up to get more territory into their guilds' control without having the disadvantages. And that is only one example how the system can be exploited.

    On another note: Nice that you care about smaller guilds, but at the same time you punish larger guilds for their size. If there are say 100 members in a guid, only 5 can have a part in a territory war which means 95% are excluded. On the other hand a guild with 5 members (say 6 with a replacement player)  has not only a near 100% participation but can hold as much territory as the bigger one without having all the troubles or organizing a community which is a HUGE advantage. So it either makes no sense at all for bigger guilds to take any deeper interest in your game at all, or... see above about splitting up.

    In summary: The more artificial constraints and rules you introduce the more you will make balancing and maintenance a hell for yourself. Antizerging, if you really feel an inquenchable urge to introduce it, should at least try to strike a balance between advantage for smaller and disadvantages for bigger communities. 5 definitely is not balanced at all.

  • BercilakBercilak Albion Online BerlinPosts: 108Member

    Hi,

     

    as I posted in my previous post Yasmin made some wrong statements which are not true. She is new in the team and isn't yet aware of everything regarding AO. And as I wrote in my previous post there wont be any penalties for owning more territories, then just the normal upkeep and claiming costs. 

     

    We have seen in previous tests that there is a huge probability that our concept serves both purposes well. 

     

    a) A large guild can still rule everything

    b) While a small guild will stand more chances to survive (compared to other MMOs)

     

    Kind regards,

    Stefan

  • RylahRylah Tribal VillagePosts: 193Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bercilak
    ...

     We have seen in previous tests that there is a huge probability that our concept serves both purposes well. 

    ...

    Hi Stefan,

    I didn't see your post before answering indeed. Speak of jumping the gun...

    To get a bigger guild sweating would mean a helluva lot of war declarations and coordination among the neighbours. Btw... war decs are agreement based or do they just start a timer?

    In any case, the really nifty schemes to - lets say fully use - the system will only surface after going live. Nobody would want to waste a good idea in beta... Experience shows that betas are rather used to find the weak points for after full launch..

    I wish the game all the best and will definitely be trying it. You had me already at "full loot". I just hope the world has indeed room for larger battles. The dynamic is very much different than arena like small team matches.

     

     

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Originally posted by Bercilak

    Hi PerfArt, I am Stefan one of the founders of Sandbox Interactive and you are absolutely right in every aspect. Yasmin mixed up some things here it seems.  To write it in your own words. "Haha if a guild is good enough to take over the world in fair fights five players at a time, then something is either really wrong with the playerbase or those guys friggin deserve to run the joint. ;)" And this is how we see  it. There are no penalties for owning a lot of territories. And if a guild owns more territories we will not punish them for their success (obv not) cause then as you mentioned it either something is completely wrong with the rest of the player or they deserve it. We actually hope that there will be empires raise and then also fall at one point (who knows).  But let me also point out a 3 other things  Having a territory with your own village and buildings is important but it is only part of the game. Since the key resources are out in the open world. As most games with a player driven economy Albion Online also has durability-loss/decay of items. So leading a war against another guild will be also cost intensive, so having a good supply of resources is as important as having some skill. Just by using weapons or armor they will loose durability faster.  If you own a lot of territories you can also be attacked from a lot of sides. Just from a logicistcal stand point you wont be able to show up to all these fights with just 5 people if you own a lot of territories. Even owning more then 2 will be problematic.   
    Actually our tests showed already that the mechanics we have in place work "a lot" like intended. So large guilds doing their thing, while smaller ones resist or coexist next to them. 
     
    Kind regards,
    Stefan
     
    PS.: And please don't forget that the 5vs5 system only is for the fights over territories and that the rest of the world is open as any other game, where you find World Boss Monsters, The highest Tier ressources or large castles with interesting key structures you can siege. 

     

    Thanks so much, Stefan! I love absolutely everything I am hearing. And thanks to Yasmin as well... developer/player interaction is important and valued, but with fans of the genre being so demanding, I imagine it becomes easy to miscommunicate at times. You both rock :)
  • SirBalinSirBalin Joppa, MDPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    Yes I agree. This game looks fun.

     

    I am a lil worried with the 5vs5 setup that one supergroup of five players will take over the whole world. I was in a premade in WOW and we played for months without losing a single battleground. So if a group like that starts taking zones and other guilds can't take them 5vs5 then they can get the whole world I guess. Unless they can lose the zones if they can't defend. Let's say two guild attacks two different zones at one time of the day (I think you could attack 3 times a day) they need to choose which one to defend.

     

    Besides that worry it looks extremely fun.

    You can only take over neighboring territories...it wouldn't be possible to take everything over.  Also you have to set times that your territory is open for siege, you could only have but so many areas before you were overlapping. 

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    This does look a bit like an updated Ultima Online. I will have to keep an eye on this one as UO is one of my all time fav mmorpg's.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon

    Yes, but that is what i mean. If a fiveman guild is taking over the world then the rest might do something about it normaly. But lets say that they are the best five in the world to make it easier for me to explain. They work perfectly together. Then if I understand the game correctly they should be able to defeat every single guild since they are the best. And if they do they have the whole world. Sure people can join up and attack them but still they are too good to beat in a 5vs5 match. And if they do it once they can just take it back.

    So if the same five guys can defend all the zones they have conquered and you need to beat them in a 5vs5 match then in reality, if they are the best, they would own the world. It other words it doesn't matter how big guild you have because you can still only dress five fighters to the defense/offense. And it doesn't matter how good the guilds work together because it is still 5vs5.   

     

    I hope it makes sense. It is not a gamebreaker for me but if a fiveman-guild can take over the whole world then we might get the same old crying like in other games when pickup-groups are facing premades. I hope I am wrong. :)

     

     

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bercilak

    Hi PerfArt,

     

    I am Stefan one of the founders of Sandbox Interactive and you are absolutely right in every aspect. Yasmin mixed up some things here it seems. 

     

    To write it in your own words. 

    "Haha if a guild is good enough to take over the world in fair fights five players at a time, then something is either really wrong with the playerbase or those guys friggin deserve to run the joint. ;)"

     

    And this is how we see  it. There are no penalties for owning a lot of territories. And if a guild owns more territories we will not punish them for their success (obv not) cause then as you mentioned it either something is completely wrong with the rest of the player or they deserve it. We actually hope that there will be empires raise and then also fall at one point (who knows). 

     

    But let me also point out a 3 other things

     

    • Having a territory with your own village and buildings is important but it is only part of the game. Since the key resources are out in the open world.
    • As most games with a player driven economy Albion Online also has durability-loss/decay of items. So leading a war against another guild will be also cost intensive, so having a good supply of resources is as important as having some skill. Just by using weapons or armor they will loose durability faster. 
    • If you own a lot of territories you can also be attacked from a lot of sides. Just from a logicistcal stand point you wont be able to show up to all these fights with just 5 people if you own a lot of territories. Even owning more then 2 will be problematic. 
     
    Actually our tests showed already that the mechanics we have in place work "a lot" like intended. So large guilds doing their thing, while smaller ones resist or coexist next to them. 
     
    Kind regards,
    Stefan
     
    PS.: And please don't forget that the 5vs5 system only is for the fights over territories and that the rest of the world is open as any other game, where you find World Boss Monsters, The highest Tier ressources or large castles with interesting key structures you can siege. 

     

    The third point solves the problem. My worries was that another guild couldn't get a zone if the fivemangroup couldn't show up. That they fight was just postponed to another day. Ok, you have thought about it and have good ideas so I am not worried about. Good luck with the game - I will definitly try it out. :)

  • wsmarwsmar Nashville, TNPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by lindhsky

    Yes, but that is what i mean. If a fiveman guild is taking over the world then the rest might do something about it normaly. But lets say that they are the best five in the world to make it easier for me to explain. They work perfectly together. Then if I understand the game correctly they should be able to defeat every single guild since they are the best. And if they do they have the whole world. Sure people can join up and attack them but still they are too good to beat in a 5vs5 match. And if they do it once they can just take it back.

    So if the same five guys can defend all the zones they have conquered and you need to beat them in a 5vs5 match then in reality, if they are the best, they would own the world. It other words it doesn't matter how big guild you have because you can still only dress five fighters to the defense/offense. And it doesn't matter how good the guilds work together because it is still 5vs5.   

     

    I hope it makes sense. It is not a gamebreaker for me but if a fiveman-guild can take over the whole world then we might get the same old crying like in other games when pickup-groups are facing premades. I hope I am wrong. :)

     

     

    It will have to be bigger than a 5 man crew to take over the world. I assume that multiple territories of a single guild can be attacked at once. How are 5 people supposed to defend all of their territories from other guilds attacking them?

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