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Sounds in Space

EhliyaEhliya Washington, DCPosts: 199Member

Having just seen the movie Gravity (don't worry, I won't give any spoilers) one of the things that made it seem so moving and memorable was how silent it is in space.  Granted, they made some deviations, but more or less tried to stick with realism. The reason for the silence, I take it, is the lack of atmosphere to carry sound waves (I am no scientist, but I believe that is why).

All this is just to ask - would people prefer Star Citizen to have a realistic treatment of sounds in space?

From the videos, it looks like they will stick with the tried and true "Star Wars" space fantasy approach, with zooming and zapping noises.  This is fine.  Sort of the same reason many Space game aliens races are made to be biped and humanoid in appearance - so we can relate to them.

Thoughts?

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ehliya

    Having just seen the movie Gravity (don't worry, I won't give any spoilers) one of the things that made it seem so moving and memorable was how silent it is in space.  Granted, they made some deviations, but more or less tried to stick with realism. The reason for the silence, I take it, is the lack of atmosphere to carry sound waves (I am no scientist, but I believe that is why).

    All this is just to ask - would people prefer Star Citizen to have a realistic treatment of sounds in space?

    From the videos, it looks like they will stick with the tried and true "Star Wars" space fantasy approach, with zooming and zapping noises.  This is fine.  Sort of the same reason many Space game aliens races are made to be biped and humanoid in appearance - so we can relate to them.

    Thoughts?

    Sounds help the player connect with their environment better. In EVE Online, the sounds in space are actually explained through the backstory.

     

    After a while Anu's voice came back: "You're doing very well. Now we are going to activate the audio synthesizers."

    "Audio synthesizers? What do you mean?" Pirkotan thought.

    "As you know there is no sound in space, but when we were developing the capsules we found that people wanted to use as many of their senses as possible, thus we added the sound. By letting a computer create three dimensional sound we also add to the awareness you have while in battles, for instance."

    Several seconds later Pirkotan could hear the audio synthesizers kick in; he could hear the low humming noise of the propulsion system and the sudden hissing sound of course-correctional thrusters. Anu came back on: "Now we'll test the audio system."

     

    Chronicle: The Jovian Wetgrave

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,149Member Uncommon
    To preserve immersion, you could think that the sounds you hear in space are not being carried in the air, since there isn't any. Instead, it's in the backwash from the engines, or shock waves from weapons. A large explosion next to your ship wouldn't make "noise", but when the shock wave from the explosion hit your ship, *that* would make a noise.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    Silence can be used to very effectively to create dramatic tension in a film when used correctly.This has been done in other films other than Gravity and in other films not about space to boot.But it's a device used sparingly.

    In a game though where your gonna be playing for a much longer extended time than a couple of hours of a single day though it would lose it's dramatic effect quickly and may lend to a sense of tedium especially when the majority of the game is going to be spent in that silence.

    Also Star Citizen is a space combat action game first and foremost just like The WIng Commander,Starlancer and Freespace series before it.It will put forth entertainment over complete realism every time and that's how we want it.I want to hear explosions and my lasers going pew pew.I want a dramatic score over it all.However I don't see a reason they couldn't put in an optional realistic sound scheme in for those who want to try it out.

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member
    Originally posted by Ehliya

    Having just seen the movie Gravity (don't worry, I won't give any spoilers) one of the things that made it seem so moving and memorable was how silent it is in space.  Granted, they made some deviations, but more or less tried to stick with realism. The reason for the silence, I take it, is the lack of atmosphere to carry sound waves (I am no scientist, but I believe that is why).

    All this is just to ask - would people prefer Star Citizen to have a realistic treatment of sounds in space?

    From the videos, it looks like they will stick with the tried and true "Star Wars" space fantasy approach, with zooming and zapping noises.  This is fine.  Sort of the same reason many Space game aliens races are made to be biped and humanoid in appearance - so we can relate to them.

    Thoughts?

    Well a game without sound will be way to boring, we all understand it is virtually impossible to hear anything outside of your ship in space because there is no sound can't travel in a <span alt-edited"="">vacuum but at the same time we also understand we like to hear the action, so we ignore some (most) facts for the sake of fun.

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member
    Originally posted by olepi
    To preserve immersion, you could think that the sounds you hear in space are not being carried in the air, since there isn't any. Instead, it's in the backwash from the engines, or shock waves from weapons. A large explosion next to your ship wouldn't make "noise", but when the shock wave from the explosion hit your ship, *that* would make a noise.

    technically waves of stuff are sound, it doesn't need to be air it just need to be strong enough to vibrate your eardrum, gases are just better at doing that.

  • MagereBirdMagereBird New York, NYPosts: 7Member
    Originally posted by Ehliya

    All this is just to ask - would people prefer Star Citizen to have a realistic treatment of sounds in space?

    From the videos, it looks like they will stick with the tried and true "Star Wars" space fantasy approach, with zooming and zapping noises.  This is fine.  Sort of the same reason many Space game aliens races are made to be biped and humanoid in appearance - so we can relate to them.

    Thoughts?

    I think there are strong arguments both for and against.  I'd like to see them make the 'space sounds' something you can switch off independent of all other music and sound effect types.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    sometimes you can't have realistic because people don't even know what realistic is. I mean if they had a hole blow open in a plane and people didn't go flying all over the place, or have the stupid scene where someone is holding onto something with their feet in the air, most people would think " well that wasn't very realistic "

    A motorcycle that didn't constantly shift up gears 10-15-20 times ? mine only ever had 6 gears...but...you know.

    If you made the game with no sounds people would think the game was broken.

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 875Member Uncommon

    What? Everybody knows that sound travels better in space because all that pesky air doesn't get in the way. Duh. >_>

    But seriously, fun should rarely (if ever) be sacrificed for realism in a product created for entertainment purposes. Our ability to hear (deaf people excepted, of course) is a large part of how we perceive the world around us, and to take that away for any reason is usually a very... uncomfortable experience (go out into public some time while your sense of hearing is completely impaired. It's not pleasant, but it is interesting).

    Also, if you're being a badass & not watching the ship you just shot up explode, that satisfying sound lets you know it did, in fact, explode.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    DOOD!!! Gravity had no sound because it was shot in space what you trying to say!

     

     

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Entirely no sound will not necessarily be entirely realistic either, if you are in a ship.

     

    This because while sounds don't transmit through space, the materials on your ship do transmit sound - and the vibration would in turn vibrates the air in the cabin (in which a human being has to live) and into our ear.

     

    So if something that might cause a violent vibration on your ship there will definitely be sound - it just "sounds" different compare to how you would hear explosions on Earth is all.

     

    Btw Gravity is not the first film to do it. If you remember the space battles in Babylon 5 tv series there were no sound either - all they do is play background music.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon

    Space is a vacuum which means there is no air.  Sound waves need air (or at least molecules) to propagate.  Thus there is no sound, though there is vibration on surfaces that could be heard inside of a vessel if something hit the exterior of it.   However, for gameplay purposes the more feedback you give a player, usually the better.  That's why we see a lot of fiery loud explosions in a lot of space based games.  I would love to see a true simulation complete with Newtonian physics, but I think only an indie dev or NASA would make a game like that in this day and age.

    Fun Fact: blood also also boils in space and the body doesn't freeze solid as shown in a lot of movies.   This also becuase of the vacuum.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    As long as we talking space realism, how about fire and explosions.

     

    They are a totally different animal in space.

     

    Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,080Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic

     Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.

    Then why is the sun on fire? Checkmate

  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member
    Originally posted by denshing
    Originally posted by psiic

     Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.

    Then why is the sun on fire? Checkmate

    That's because the sun isn't on fire. It's undergoing nuclear fusion. And neither does the sun not have gravity or is a vaccum. Checkmate. 

    And on the subject of fire in space.  As long as there is oxygen available, there can be fire. If a pressurized cabin is hit then the air (containing oxygen) will vent allowing fire for a certain distance as long as the oxygen from the ship persists.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by denshing

    Originally posted by psiic
    Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.
    Then why is the sun on fire? Checkmate
    ummm... maybe because the sun is made of flammable gasses? It is not burning space, but rather the gasses that make up its substance. That would be similar to asking how does fire work on Earth, since the earth is in space? Space actually keeps the sun from burning everything else around it.

    Wasn't it the movie Alien that had the tag line, "Nobody can hear you scream in Space." (or something like that)?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • gigatgigat Minneapolis, MNPosts: 604Member Uncommon

    Actually, the sun is where evil unicorns live. That's why it's on fire, because everyone knows that evil unicorns are made of flame. And you know what a rainbow is? A rainbow is the combination of evil unicorn farts (solar flares) and fairy tears (rain). Rainbows only appear after fairies cry, and their tears fall from the clouds and mingle with evil unicorn farts to create rainbows.

    That's why there's no sound in space, because of unicorns.

    --------

     

    On a serious note, I agree there should be no sound in space. First-person view (from the cockpit) there should be all the sounds you'd expect: beeps and bleeps of the controls and ship systems, crashing and banging and clinking and clanging during combat and collisions, WOOOOM sounds and humming from the engines, muffled PEWPEW (lasers) and SHOOOO (missile launchers) when firing weapons, robotic voice for various warnings and information... There's so much sound that you could have right in the cockpit without breaking the vacuum-rule.

     

    Third-person view (viewing the ship from outside while in space) there should be minimal sound. I guess only as much as is necessary for optimal dramatic effect, and for communicating vital information to the player.

     

     

     

    And if you want a great example of a show that did it right, Firefly.

    "Lose the helmet sis, we can't prove that you're retarded." - Dennis Reynolds

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by gigat
    And if you want a great example of a show that did it right, Firefly.
    I agree. When I first read the thread title, my mind went to a Firefly episode called "Objects In Space." In that episode, 2 of the cast were hiding outside of the ship in evac suits. When they were "on camera", all you heard was their breathing and the lines they spoke. Nothing else.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by denshing
    Originally posted by psiic

     Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.

    Then why is the sun on fire? Checkmate

    Wow.

     

    How do you get through life?

     

     

    You stay sassy!

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Posts: 847Member Uncommon

    Also - if anyone is still reading this soundless thread - there's no need for continual propulsion once the spaceship is heading in the right direction at the desired velocity, yet many sci-fi films show ships continually powering as the move. Again, just  to add some action into what would be a pretty boring scene.

    In space no one can hear you put the pedal to the metal......

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    It's a game. Therefore it will have cool sounds and flashy explosions. A true-to-everything space sim would be boring as hell.
  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member
    Originally posted by olepi
    To preserve immersion, you could think that the sounds you hear in space are not being carried in the air, since there isn't any. Instead, it's in the backwash from the engines, or shock waves from weapons. A large explosion next to your ship wouldn't make "noise", but when the shock wave from the explosion hit your ship, *that* would make a noise.

    Yes, this. Although there is a very minimal amount of "pressure" in "space", the "sound" you'd hear is the sudden expansion of localized energy transformation against the hull of your own craft. It would still sound like a big "boom".

    The shockwave would also deviate your craft's trajectory violently, but that won't be in the game either.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by denshing

    Originally posted by psiic
    Gravity and Vaccum effect fire in odd ways.

    Then why is the sun on fire? Checkmate
    ummm... maybe because the sun is made of flammable gasses? It is not burning space, but rather the gasses that make up its substance. That would be similar to asking how does fire work on Earth, since the earth is in space? Space actually keeps the sun from burning everything else around it.

     

    Wasn't it the movie Alien that had the tag line, "Nobody can hear you scream in Space." (or something like that)?

    'In space, no one can hear you scream.'

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gigat

     

     And if you want a great example of a show that did it right, Firefly.

    I would have gone for babylon 5 in this context, but both are good examples.

  • xm522xm522 Miami, FLPosts: 114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Honner
    Originally posted by olepi
    To preserve immersion, you could think that the sounds you hear in space are not being carried in the air, since there isn't any. Instead, it's in the backwash from the engines, or shock waves from weapons. A large explosion next to your ship wouldn't make "noise", but when the shock wave from the explosion hit your ship, *that* would make a noise.

    technically waves of stuff are sound, it doesn't need to be air it just need to be strong enough to vibrate your eardrum, gases are just better at doing that.

    actually denser materials are better at the transfer of sound, gasses are the worse of the materials.

    in space you would not get a physical shock-wave because there isn't anything physical between the explosion and you. what you would get is an amazing light show caused by the electromagnetic pulse of the explosions. so in the cockpit you might actually hear the crackling sound of your circuit board trying to stay functional and you may get  shaking because your computer had to reboot the flight system (which in the future could take just seconds or nano-seconds.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Karahandras

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Wasn't it the movie Alien that had the tag line, "Nobody can hear you scream in Space." (or something like that)?
    'In space, no one can hear you scream.'
    Thank you :) I knew I was close, but was too lazy to look it up :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

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