Pathfinder online plans to be a huge sandbox and it has the back up of thousands of pen and paper RPG players who enjoy the tabletop version of the game. I think this one will last .
TESO - It all hinges on what you can do at level cap. Yes, I'm all for the journey, but "adventure zones" or whatever they're going to call them and the RvR need to be solid systems to have that longevity. I'm in the beta and I know what the current gameplay feels like but NDA.
this
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The only mmos i think will last longer will be the ones willing to break the cycle. No matter how many little new features they add as an eye candy, as long as the core progression of the game is limited to the same thing we have been doing for years over and over nonstop then they will not last longer than what we have now.
So far my clans have good hope for ESO & Star Citizen, and a few other games like Rust.
If the game companies did exactly as I sent to their developers with feedback, and suggestions then they should have no problem keeping me actively playing as a subscriber, if they start doing lame things like massive nerfs, changes, don't add customization, nickel and dime its consumers for changing appearance instead of making it 100% free in game then I will not play the game or support it I dropped every other MMO that has done this so far and have no problem doing it again with any future MMO.
The exception being games like EVE Online which allows players to freely change their character appearance at any time, StarTrek Online one time purchase of content you can freely customize the character any time, and I hope Star CItizen/ The other games are like this.
I honestly have no faith in NCsoft anymore as a company, as Lineage 2 was my very first NCsoft MMO, I started playing that around the same time I did Guild Wars, which was around 2005, the game was great, except for the fact at high levels you have constant down time and that is the only reason I quit Lineage 2.
So the game went F2P my account gets hacked NCsoft does nothing to roll back my account says its my fault when it was safe for years until the game went F2P meaning perhaps it wasn't even hacked but all my gear was gone others had the same issue too.
Then Aion same exact thing it goes F2P, but the game had many cheaters/exploiters, and not only did it go F2P But the cosmetics shop holy Cash-Shop they want to charge me not only a monthly fee but for plastic surgery tickets to customize before going F2P that is when I dropped the subscription to their game.
I have no faith in NCsoft after the years which I have had some good experiences but those experiences ruined by their decisions. I like F2P Games, but I feel NCsoft needs to get developers who know what they are doing, take GW2 for example Its a okay game for F2P I don't have to spend money can customize quite a bit without spending cash/in game gold, but the problem, no housing, can't learn all crafts on a single character so I don't even bother playing it much, and with the new ascended its constant grind. So I have no hopes for WildStar.
Do I think a game will come out that will have the effect WoW had over years probably not. I think a game could yes and it could be one of many will finally come up with newer and different way to play MMO's that will bring people back to them and last. I think EQ:N is offering some good idea's but who knows what we will really get. Wildstar I think will be fun but long term I am not sure how many new idea's they have. ESO I know nothing about not sure about it. I think new AI, new way to quest and level (and yes all these games have some type of leveling) will be the game changer. I feel like a lot of games just offer a new version of the WoW questing model. I think graphic's need to be decent but I think the content of a game is what can make it a winner.
Since I have not played an MMO for ~9 months, I have been researching upcoming games. I was surprised to not see "The Repopulation" listed in this thread; seems like a good game with all the elements needed and well planned out for a MMO. If you haven't reviewed "The Repopulation" I would recommend it. Three tier PVP, crafting, lots of skills, non-combat aspects, etc...all are included and the graphics look great. I would second comments about Black Desert, if a western publisher had been found (has one been identified?).
The devs can provide the "playground" (e.g. grafix, music, game mechanics, etc.) but it's also up to the players what they make of it. In the end it's the players that make or break a game. How will established players treat new players? What will be the "hamster wheel" that keeps the players playing? The devs can offer different "hamster wheels" but the players choose which ones they want. Can the game and community offer what certain player types expect (e.g. grouping, soloing, crafting, etc.)?
From the titles I've been following I think Wildstar is currently the only one that might have a chance at lasting for a relatively long time. That is if they manage to attract the ex-WoW player crowd that are essentially looking for a more hardcore version of the game they're so used to.
I think this will only remain true if they actually do target the properly hardcore market. And I mean from bottom to top. Not just raiders, but anyone who wants an MMORPG that requires a little more work.
Right now, this is not being done. If they only target the raiders and give everyone else what WoW currently offers, I don't think they'll get very far. If I want current WoW's hyper-linear questlines, well, guess what, I am going to go play WoW.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Well I have played nearly about 15 - 20 MMOs and only 2 I got so involved in, that they lasted me 2 - 3 years each.
Do I expect something like that with these new games coming? No, not really. Besides EQN, I don't really see anything all that new. I don't know why anyone would expect these games to change anything.
ESO: I am excited about it, it looks interesting, but unless they change the payment model to B2P or F2P, I won't be touching it. Either that, or I will play on a private server. Don't get me wrong, I am not a huge F2P fan, I much rather games use a B2P model with at most a very minor cash shop. The reason I don't see it lasting very long for myself though, is because I honestly have played plenty of MMOs like it.
Wildstar: Again, looks good. Pretty much same as ESO.
EQN: If they deliver ... I think this could actually prove me wrong. I just feel like .. it's not going to happen.
I expect these games to launch strong, shake their players down for as much as they can, and close down before the players know what hit 'em.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
If you mean Last as in have 1 million+ subs for years and years like WoW then NO.
If you mean simply still in operation then yeah. Even the failed MMOs are still around. Vanguard servers are still UP even though it was declared a failure 7 years ago. Rift is still around, AION, TERA, SWTOR, Neverwinter, FFXIV are all still operational.
Whether you are having fun in these games is up to you. Speaking for myself I am having fun right now in my little niche games that I play. Game hoppers bring about their own misery because they are always focused on the next game rather then living in the now.
As a MMO nomad im not expected to adhere to any game for any point in time longer than 3 months or so.. but games like EQN i plan on putting into my game rotation since its free to try..and ESO as well if/when it goes free to try.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Originally posted by PerfArt EQN absolutely. Their model is airtight. If the delivery matches, it could be unstoppable for some time. SOE is playing a very smart game right now.
Wildstar might be a success, but I doubt it will have real legs. Seems a bit too surface level to last very long, but time will tell.
ESO will most likely be a beautiful, fireworks-drenched extravaganza of failure. That or a resounding triumph. I truly can't call that one. Too many variables involving the IP and the real content... but if pressed, I would predict the former.
My pick for "longevity" is therefore EQN.
I agree with you on EQN, although the whole founder packs "fiasco" might actually hurt them, if only in the beginning.
I also agree with you on Wildstar, although I'm a tad more optimistic than you, because I it's "real legs" is it's humor, and it's good humor at that (I have laughed at at least one thing per dev video, so I think that shows how good it is)
I think ESO will be a fireworks-drenched extravaganza of resounding triumph. Judging by gameplay videos, it looks almost identical to Skyrim with some differences, and let's face it, Skyrim was an awesome game.
I'm not expecting any MMO to last, nor do I think they should. Games are only fun for a certain amount of time and then people go elsewhere. I cannot imagine staying with a single game, no matter how fantastic it is, forever. I think every game coming out is going to do fine for a while, then lose players, then go F2P and eventually fade away, leaving only the few fanatics that all games come up with.
Why should they be any different than the vast majority of games on the market?
Originally posted by asrlohz Originally posted by delete5230With the anticipated newer mmos around the corner, and as fun as they seem, are you really expecting Deep, Rich, Long lasting enjoyment. An mmo as you perceive it ......I'm asking you to put aside features, and asking you if you expect to call one home for a long time.......Yes, my question is Longevety...Are you finally expecting it ?Examples :-Wildstar-Elder Scrolls Online-EverQuest Next, -any other near future mmo.My Opinion : I for some reason was expecting FF14 to be that game, I don't know why. Maybe because it was Square Enix and they have a solid history. I went into the game with my Built-in-forgetter that it was a rush job to fix a broken release.....I seem to romance only to be disappointed over and over.
Yes, aside from the massive failure with their previous attempt to bring Final Fantasy to the MMO scene. And their over priced FF originals on the app store, Final Fantasy Heroes, the terrible port PC of Dark Souls and most of their other games were total flops or made by different developers.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Square Enix is great and I usually trust that their High Profile games are going to be good. But I haven't had a single gaming experience with them without some massive oversight since their early Final Fantasy years. Albeit, FF14 was probably a pretty good entry to the MMO scene but they have to tries to even get it remotely right. And from what I played in the beta, the first twenty minutes were courier quests supposed to be a tutorial that figuratively bored the crap out of me.
Still, I their games are usually a good bet, but I was still bummed out after having to purchase a 360 controller to be able to play one of my PC games.
Square was great, Square-Enix is not.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Of your list, EQN will last the longest if you see it as the others will all be F2P in a short time to continue after the money grab. EQ Landmark also has a chance to last even longer due to players being able to create just about anything...Shroud of the Avatar WILL last long if not just due to the fact that they have it planned out to release the base game in chunks over several years, top it off with also being able to create just about anything and the typical fantastic Ultima story/world.
And those are just western made games. If Ein and Black Desert turn out to be even HALF what it seems it is, we will finally have two decent sandbox games in fully fleshed out worlds.
But I do understand your bleak outlook on the MMO genre, being so trapped in the rutt its been in for so long and several top upcoming MMOs like Wildstar and TESO being the exact same thing. But don't fret, there are SOME developers that don't have their heads trapped in that small box.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Lineage Eternal is the only one from NCSOft that has the chance to last as long as Lineage 1 that still makes 50-60-80+ million dollars per quarter for NCSoft since 1998. It all depends on the development direction taken by the dev team.
Personally I play games untill I get bored. So that's how long any game gets with me. It differs from game to game mind.
More often than not, if the game hasn't shutdown I return.
Seeing as the games some people claim that failed are still alive and kicking, I'm guessing these new bunch won't be any different. they will be around for a while.
Generally the longivety of MMOs will shrink every year. Not because the games are getting worse but because the "casual" players, who provide the core customers mostly want to "beat" the game as fast as possible and move on. If the game provides a too big challenge they simply abandon it within days which is the worst option for the publishers so the games tend to get more "accessible" with each patch.
The only MMO that could break the vicious circle is Elder Scrolls Online because of all fantasy franchises it has the largest fanbase and active community in both the English and German spoken countries.
But I would not even bet on this one to be longer around than a couple of years....
Wildstar - they can do it. Why? because its an evolutionary improvement over time tested principles - with a fun space theme. I think thats a good combination.
Here is the thing about 'new ideas' - they often don't pan out - this because of the nature of computer science. Developers are limited in what they can do and what they can make fun..
Show me a game that doesn't have levels or even stats on the gear - thats not a gear grind and that features awesome AI? Yeah I show you a failure..
We have heard this story before. I am playing GW2. I kind of like GW2. But its three 'main' innovative features - no grear grind, Holy Trinity, and Dynamic Events just don't really work. With gear they give you a daily driven grind instead (this is worse then a raiding system). And with the lack of Holy Trinity - sure there is 'complexity' there but its hidden. And thus not accessible for most players. As a result all the team work is zerging and there is very little actual team play.. And Dynamic events in practice are just like quests you don't need to read to start..- that anyone can join. Public Quests would be a more reailstic name for it..
ESO - that's a bit of a wild card. It has a strong IP - and maybe it will work. I found Skyrim surprisingly boring and lifeless so I dunno. But I wouldn't bet on them..
Generally the longivety of MMOs will shrink every year. Not because the games are getting worse but because the "casual" players, who provide the core customers mostly want to "beat" the game as fast as possible and move on. If the game provides a too big challenge they simply abandon it within days which is the worst option for the publishers so the games tend to get more "accessible" with each patch.
The only MMO that could break the vicious circle is Elder Scrolls Online because of all fantasy franchises it has the largest fanbase and active community in both the English and German spoken countries.
But I would not even bet on this one to be longer around than a couple of years....
You sure? It's always been the casual gamer that plays and takes his time in the game. The hardcore player seems to want to rush and "win/beat" the game.
Comments
this
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So far my clans have good hope for ESO & Star Citizen, and a few other games like Rust.
If the game companies did exactly as I sent to their developers with feedback, and suggestions then they should have no problem keeping me actively playing as a subscriber, if they start doing lame things like massive nerfs, changes, don't add customization, nickel and dime its consumers for changing appearance instead of making it 100% free in game then I will not play the game or support it I dropped every other MMO that has done this so far and have no problem doing it again with any future MMO.
The exception being games like EVE Online which allows players to freely change their character appearance at any time, StarTrek Online one time purchase of content you can freely customize the character any time, and I hope Star CItizen/ The other games are like this.
I honestly have no faith in NCsoft anymore as a company, as Lineage 2 was my very first NCsoft MMO, I started playing that around the same time I did Guild Wars, which was around 2005, the game was great, except for the fact at high levels you have constant down time and that is the only reason I quit Lineage 2.
So the game went F2P my account gets hacked NCsoft does nothing to roll back my account says its my fault when it was safe for years until the game went F2P meaning perhaps it wasn't even hacked but all my gear was gone others had the same issue too.
Then Aion same exact thing it goes F2P, but the game had many cheaters/exploiters, and not only did it go F2P But the cosmetics shop holy Cash-Shop they want to charge me not only a monthly fee but for plastic surgery tickets to customize before going F2P that is when I dropped the subscription to their game.
I have no faith in NCsoft after the years which I have had some good experiences but those experiences ruined by their decisions. I like F2P Games, but I feel NCsoft needs to get developers who know what they are doing, take GW2 for example Its a okay game for F2P I don't have to spend money can customize quite a bit without spending cash/in game gold, but the problem, no housing, can't learn all crafts on a single character so I don't even bother playing it much, and with the new ascended its constant grind. So I have no hopes for WildStar.
The devs can provide the "playground" (e.g. grafix, music, game mechanics, etc.) but it's also up to the players what they make of it. In the end it's the players that make or break a game. How will established players treat new players? What will be the "hamster wheel" that keeps the players playing? The devs can offer different "hamster wheels" but the players choose which ones they want. Can the game and community offer what certain player types expect (e.g. grouping, soloing, crafting, etc.)?
No to all those you list
Yes to Elite Dangerous & Star Citizen
I think this will only remain true if they actually do target the properly hardcore market. And I mean from bottom to top. Not just raiders, but anyone who wants an MMORPG that requires a little more work.
Right now, this is not being done. If they only target the raiders and give everyone else what WoW currently offers, I don't think they'll get very far. If I want current WoW's hyper-linear questlines, well, guess what, I am going to go play WoW.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Well I have played nearly about 15 - 20 MMOs and only 2 I got so involved in, that they lasted me 2 - 3 years each.
Do I expect something like that with these new games coming? No, not really. Besides EQN, I don't really see anything all that new. I don't know why anyone would expect these games to change anything.
ESO: I am excited about it, it looks interesting, but unless they change the payment model to B2P or F2P, I won't be touching it. Either that, or I will play on a private server. Don't get me wrong, I am not a huge F2P fan, I much rather games use a B2P model with at most a very minor cash shop. The reason I don't see it lasting very long for myself though, is because I honestly have played plenty of MMOs like it.
Wildstar: Again, looks good. Pretty much same as ESO.
EQN: If they deliver ... I think this could actually prove me wrong. I just feel like .. it's not going to happen.
No.
If last means they will have more than 500k subs after 6 months.
Nope.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
It depends on what you mean by "Last."
If you mean Last as in have 1 million+ subs for years and years like WoW then NO.
If you mean simply still in operation then yeah. Even the failed MMOs are still around. Vanguard servers are still UP even though it was declared a failure 7 years ago. Rift is still around, AION, TERA, SWTOR, Neverwinter, FFXIV are all still operational.
Whether you are having fun in these games is up to you. Speaking for myself I am having fun right now in my little niche games that I play. Game hoppers bring about their own misery because they are always focused on the next game rather then living in the now.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
I agree with you on EQN, although the whole founder packs "fiasco" might actually hurt them, if only in the beginning.
I also agree with you on Wildstar, although I'm a tad more optimistic than you, because I it's "real legs" is it's humor, and it's good humor at that (I have laughed at at least one thing per dev video, so I think that shows how good it is)
I think ESO will be a fireworks-drenched extravaganza of resounding triumph. Judging by gameplay videos, it looks almost identical to Skyrim with some differences, and let's face it, Skyrim was an awesome game.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I'm not expecting any MMO to last, nor do I think they should. Games are only fun for a certain amount of time and then people go elsewhere. I cannot imagine staying with a single game, no matter how fantastic it is, forever. I think every game coming out is going to do fine for a while, then lose players, then go F2P and eventually fade away, leaving only the few fanatics that all games come up with.
Why should they be any different than the vast majority of games on the market?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Don't get me wrong, I think that Square Enix is great and I usually trust that their High Profile games are going to be good. But I haven't had a single gaming experience with them without some massive oversight since their early Final Fantasy years. Albeit, FF14 was probably a pretty good entry to the MMO scene but they have to tries to even get it remotely right. And from what I played in the beta, the first twenty minutes were courier quests supposed to be a tutorial that figuratively bored the crap out of me.
Still, I their games are usually a good bet, but I was still bummed out after having to purchase a 360 controller to be able to play one of my PC games.
Square was great, Square-Enix is not.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Of your list, EQN will last the longest if you see it as the others will all be F2P in a short time to continue after the money grab. EQ Landmark also has a chance to last even longer due to players being able to create just about anything...Shroud of the Avatar WILL last long if not just due to the fact that they have it planned out to release the base game in chunks over several years, top it off with also being able to create just about anything and the typical fantastic Ultima story/world.
And those are just western made games. If Ein and Black Desert turn out to be even HALF what it seems it is, we will finally have two decent sandbox games in fully fleshed out worlds.
But I do understand your bleak outlook on the MMO genre, being so trapped in the rutt its been in for so long and several top upcoming MMOs like Wildstar and TESO being the exact same thing. But don't fret, there are SOME developers that don't have their heads trapped in that small box.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Wildstar is the only one i am interested in and just hope i won't be totally disappointed.
EQN is not my cup of tea and from what i saw of TESO it will be the worst of the bunch, i just don't understand what Zenimax is doing with that one.
Lineage Eternal is the only one from NCSOft that has the chance to last as long as Lineage 1 that still makes 50-60-80+ million dollars per quarter for NCSoft since 1998. It all depends on the development direction taken by the dev team.
Wildstar won't even last for two years.
Personally I play games untill I get bored. So that's how long any game gets with me. It differs from game to game mind.
More often than not, if the game hasn't shutdown I return.
Seeing as the games some people claim that failed are still alive and kicking, I'm guessing these new bunch won't be any different. they will be around for a while.
Generally the longivety of MMOs will shrink every year. Not because the games are getting worse but because the "casual" players, who provide the core customers mostly want to "beat" the game as fast as possible and move on. If the game provides a too big challenge they simply abandon it within days which is the worst option for the publishers so the games tend to get more "accessible" with each patch.
The only MMO that could break the vicious circle is Elder Scrolls Online because of all fantasy franchises it has the largest fanbase and active community in both the English and German spoken countries.
But I would not even bet on this one to be longer around than a couple of years....
Wildstar - they can do it. Why? because its an evolutionary improvement over time tested principles - with a fun space theme. I think thats a good combination.
Here is the thing about 'new ideas' - they often don't pan out - this because of the nature of computer science. Developers are limited in what they can do and what they can make fun..
Show me a game that doesn't have levels or even stats on the gear - thats not a gear grind and that features awesome AI? Yeah I show you a failure..
We have heard this story before. I am playing GW2. I kind of like GW2. But its three 'main' innovative features - no grear grind, Holy Trinity, and Dynamic Events just don't really work. With gear they give you a daily driven grind instead (this is worse then a raiding system). And with the lack of Holy Trinity - sure there is 'complexity' there but its hidden. And thus not accessible for most players. As a result all the team work is zerging and there is very little actual team play.. And Dynamic events in practice are just like quests you don't need to read to start..- that anyone can join. Public Quests would be a more reailstic name for it..
ESO - that's a bit of a wild card. It has a strong IP - and maybe it will work. I found Skyrim surprisingly boring and lifeless so I dunno. But I wouldn't bet on them..
You sure? It's always been the casual gamer that plays and takes his time in the game. The hardcore player seems to want to rush and "win/beat" the game.