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OMG The Combat

marz.at.playmarz.at.play Mississauga, ONPosts: 912Member

Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

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Comments

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    Yeah its fun to watch the animations and effects but thats about it. Reminds me a lot of SWG combat.

  • madroxymadroxy Toronto, ONPosts: 53Member
    Totally Agree, it was so brutal. Just wait till you get a lot of abilities.. People say ummm its more "tactical" F that... its MORE boring.
  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    Not going to flame you fellow forum goer.

    But I will put you straight. Yes at the start the combat is slow, however as you gain skills you get a small set that is off the GCD. Not to mention the cross job picks.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Not going to flame you fellow forum goer.

    But I will put you straight. Yes at the start the combat is slow, however as you gain skills you get a small set that is off the GCD. Not to mention the cross job picks.

     

    You get like two or three long CD off the GCD abilities that won't work unless you're out of your current animation. The combat is slow. There's really no other way to look at it. The skill speed stat scales horribly so you pretty much have a 2.4-2.5s GCD from 1-50 and beyond.  Half the cross class skills are totally useless to the job your playing while others are completely mandatory. It feels a bit half baked, and 2.5 seconds for a GCD feels like an eternity IMO. 

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member

    GCD is intertwined with encounter design.

     

    On Titan Hardmode, I barely have enough time to use the skills I have.  The GCD was designed with the constant moving anticipated from boss attacks.

     

    I prefer this combat system to Wow, where you're just spamming buttons as soon as they're off cooldown.  I also prefer this over GW2 because in 2, there was no strategy other than everyone avoiding their own red circles.  Some really cool combinations and class design but it wasn't strong enough for me to stay.  

     

    Thre are plenty of people who prefer this combat system over twitchbased (wow) or action based (GW2/Tera).  The market is saturated with games that have a FAST COMBAT system.  you're more than welcome to play those games to your heart's content.

     

    I like FFXIV as is.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    GCD is intertwined with encounter design.

     

    On Titan Hardmode, I barely have enough time to use the skills I have.  The GCD was designed with the constant moving anticipated from boss attacks.

     

    I prefer this combat system to Wow, where you're just spamming buttons as soon as they're off cooldown.  I also prefer this over GW2 because in 2, there was no strategy other than everyone avoiding their own red circles.  Some really cool combinations and class design but it wasn't strong enough for me to stay.  

     

    Thre are plenty of people who prefer this combat system over twitchbased (wow) or action based (GW2/Tera).  The market is saturated with games that have a FAST COMBAT system.  you're more than welcome to play those games to your heart's content.

     

    I like FFXIV as is.

     

    It's no different than WoW. It's just slower. Unless you're trying to say you don't have to move out of the fire in WoW. 

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    GCD is intertwined with encounter design.

     

    On Titan Hardmode, I barely have enough time to use the skills I have.  The GCD was designed with the constant moving anticipated from boss attacks.

     

    I prefer this combat system to Wow, where you're just spamming buttons as soon as they're off cooldown.  I also prefer this over GW2 because in 2, there was no strategy other than everyone avoiding their own red circles.  Some really cool combinations and class design but it wasn't strong enough for me to stay.  

     

    Thre are plenty of people who prefer this combat system over twitchbased (wow) or action based (GW2/Tera).  The market is saturated with games that have a FAST COMBAT system.  you're more than welcome to play those games to your heart's content.

     

    I like FFXIV as is.

     

    It's no different than WoW. It's just slower. Unless you're trying to say you don't have to move out of the fire in WoW. 

    Because Wow's combat has a very fast GCD... there's literally no consequence to using one ability over another, because a second later, you can use the other ability.   you're spamming abilities without any thought or preparation.

     

    In FFXIV, If I make the mistake in my decision on what ability to use, or what skill chain, that has consequences on my actions.  If I use my Maim Combo because I think my threat is ahead, only to realize I was wrong, then the group will pay the consequences... someone will get one shotted.

     

    Think of the 2.5 GCD in conjunction with your 3 hit weapon skills.  you use the wrong one, you have 5-7.5 seconds before you can go back and correct the mistake.

     

    Because the GCD is slower, AND because skills chain, making the incorrect choice has consequences where such consequences do not exist in WoW.  don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right.  The boss designs are fun.  The combat is smooth.  There is no latency and it's reaction based.  however, I no longer enjoy spastically spamming abilities on my keyboard.

     

    I enjoy the combat in FFXIV especially end game, where I am weaving in an ability between the global cooldown.  The slow combat is not slow when you are weaving in other abilities AND you're dodging shit.

     

    I am NOT bored when I do Ifrit, Garuda or Titan.  The last thing I'm thinking is... damn this is boring.  I'm thinking, if I make one mistake i'm dead.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Yeah its fun to watch the animations and effects but thats about it. Reminds me a lot of SWG combat.

    its one of the reasons i say i loved SWGpreNGE and not preCU.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    I know someones said it already but skill speed comes into play late game.  I'm literally always pressing something on my bard, Monk is even faster.  

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I know someones said it already but skill speed comes into play late game.  I'm literally always pressing something on my bard, Monk is even faster.  

    Skill speed is a definite factor for Monk because it's part of class design (Greased Lightning), however that's not the case for all other classes.

     

    It's just the fact that you have a way more abilities that are not part of the global cooldown that you weave between the global cooldown.

     

    The game gets better and better the higher level you get.

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I know someones said it already but skill speed comes into play late game.  I'm literally always pressing something on my bard, Monk is even faster.  

    Then you're doing it wrong! 

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    The combat can actually become very complex. Late game monk for example is quite rediculous in keeping up the dots and debuffs/buffs while being in the correct position (flank or behind) to do optimal damage all while having to weave between combos having to go off in a certain order with each 'tier' being a different set of skills that work.

     

    Still, the GCD does bother me a bit, perhaps why monk actually feels so good since its closer to 2 sec GCD with Greased Lightning stacks up. I do wish it was a bit faster, but otherwise the combat feels quite satisfying, giving a real feeling of impact that some games lack.

  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 453Member Uncommon

    The combat IS painfully slow. But when i got to about lvl 40 or so I started to get a lot of instant cast on my SMN, that made it 100x more enjoyable. Still, I would like it if it was even faster *sigh*

    I've only played SMN & PUG and for the most part I've found them enjoyable because they have such unique play styles that i often forget how slow combat is going. 

  • Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    This is how you know where this player has come from. See, for me the combat pace feels finee because I played EQ in 2001 - if you were a melee class you had 1 or 2 abilities - kick, bash, taunt.....other than that you auto attacked every 2.4 seconds if you had a good weapon. 

    World of Warcraft much?

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by aspekx
    Originally posted by Foomerang Yeah its fun to watch the animations and effects but thats about it. Reminds me a lot of SWG combat.
    its one of the reasons i say i loved SWGpreNGE and not preCU.

    I hear ya

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

     Sucks for you, sorry you didn't enjoy the game. However, I personally love the combat in the game and feel that it's perfectly fine. I even play a White Mages (healer) easily making it one of the slowest classes in the game to level.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • marz.at.playmarz.at.play Mississauga, ONPosts: 912Member
    Originally posted by jonesing22
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    This is how you know where this player has come from. See, for me the combat pace feels finee because I played EQ in 2001 - if you were a melee class you had 1 or 2 abilities - kick, bash, taunt.....other than that you auto attacked every 2.4 seconds if you had a good weapon. 

    World of Warcraft much?

    Actually I never played WOW. I came from GW (7 years) and a slew of other MMO's in between. Most recently been playing AoC.

    image
  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I know someones said it already but skill speed comes into play late game.  I'm literally always pressing something on my bard, Monk is even faster.  

    Then you're doing it wrong! 

    Thats why I've cleared turns 1-4, I'm doing it all wrong.  

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon
    It's not my favorite combat system, it does feel lackluster at times, mostly cause I'm used to WoW's combat. There was alot of arguing on the beta forums about it being too slow or too fast, so I guess is why they whent with this route.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    TSW and Rift combat are underdeveloped..... poorly done, but they are faster. TSW would have a great combat if the animations didnt suck as they do.  FFXIV combat is better than those 2 combined, but yeah the slow global cooldown kills it completely. Note, im talking about animation quality only and feel only

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    The combat system was sluggish and boring to me..  though I played primarily caster classes...  mostly Scholar,  but Summoner and BM too.....    I love caster classes usually,  but I just couldn't fall in love with any of them.

     

    Granted I felt the scholar was the most useful, it had a lot of fast cast abilities, and healing bosses was usually a challenge because of the cast times,  less because of the GCD.

     

    I think the game is pretty good overall, but its really geared towards a crowd that likes the slower, more mechanical pace.  My buddy that I leveled with and had a Bard and a Warrior really loved playing his bard,  but, bard was one of the most played classes on our server, possibly any server,  and he was stuck playing his warrior more than he'd like which he found extremely boring, and it made us a scholar warrior team which put us both into roles that excited us less and less the more we played the same content.

     

    I moved on however,  but he's stayed,  without me around he's been forcing people to accept his bard and he likes it a lot more...    game just wasn't for me.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


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  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marz.at.play
    Originally posted by jonesing22
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    This is how you know where this player has come from. See, for me the combat pace feels finee because I played EQ in 2001 - if you were a melee class you had 1 or 2 abilities - kick, bash, taunt.....other than that you auto attacked every 2.4 seconds if you had a good weapon. 

    World of Warcraft much?

    Actually I never played WOW. I came from GW (7 years) and a slew of other MMO's in between. Most recently been playing AoC.

    There's literally no excuse to not have played WoW.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    TSW and Rift combat are underdeveloped..... poorly done, but they are faster. TSW would have a great combat if the animations didnt suck as they do.  FFXIV combat is better than those 2 combined, but yeah the slow global cooldown kills it completely. Note, im talking about animation quality only and feel only

    Underdeveloped and poorly done in your opinion. Important bit you left out there, so I added it in for you.

    So, it's not the combat system itself you have a problem with in TSW. It's the animations. So basically, if they "improved" the animations (to your satisfaction), it would be exactly the same combat system it is now... with - in your opinion - "better" animations.

    Hence, TSW's combat system is - in your words - "great". 

    Eye candy isn't what makes a combat system work or not. It's the mechanics behind it. Trying to dismiss the combat system because you don't like the animations, is like saying "this meal would taste great if the silverware was better". Just as silverware has nothing to do with the taste of food, animations have nothing to do with the core mechanics of a combat system.

    Some people have some seriously shallow criteria for what makes something "good".

     

     

  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

     Sucks for you, sorry you didn't enjoy the game. However, I personally love the combat in the game and feel that it's perfectly fine. I even play a White Mages (healer) easily making it one of the slowest classes in the game to level.

     

    I agree, the combat is fine and suits the needs of the fanbase it's targetting. It's a Final Fantasy game, not sure what you were expecting and no I don't think it is boring, but yeah Age of Conan is better overall combat wise imo. Also to other posters SWG was good in all forms. image

    Thank you for listening to my opinion. image

  • fodell54fodell54 Posts: 309Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jonesing22
    Originally posted by marz.at.play

    Really? This has got to be the SLOWEST combat I've every experienced in any MMO. 2.5 second global cooldown? I feel like I'm sitting on a dentist chair and getting a root canal, that's how painfully slow this is...and people complained about TSW and RIFT's combat? They both trounce FFXIV. I have to force myself to log in because I feel guilty I spent $30.00 and played so little so far.

    Sorry for the drama. It's just DAMN! Really? Ok please flame on.

    This is how you know where this player has come from. See, for me the combat pace feels finee because I played EQ in 2001 - if you were a melee class you had 1 or 2 abilities - kick, bash, taunt.....other than that you auto attacked every 2.4 seconds if you had a good weapon. 

    World of Warcraft much?

    I played EQ in 00'ish time frame along with UO and I still think this combat sucks. If I wanted boring combat I'd still be playing EQ. The fact that most games combat isn't like that anymore says volumes.

    Rose tinted glasses much?

    image

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