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Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Pretty silly decision if you ask me.
Jean-Luc your a great star fleet captain, the best IMHO but your flying mounts killed the game for me, I still played sure but the sense of adventure evaporates the moment you can skip over who area's, sure I didn't have fly and I didn't but it also ment blizzard could not pace their content or have any mystery in the game.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Originally posted by expresso Well it's now a day 1 purchase for me. http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3560-Warlords-of-Draenor-Flying-Delayed-Until-First-Major-Patch-Hearthstone-Beta-Keys
That's pretty cool, forces you to explore the world and be on your toes, since if I read correctly, they'll have giant elite mobs roaming (a la Fel Reavers in BC).
I am back in and the game that pulled me back in was Hearthstone.
I can't do much though with my new dinged 90 lvl Paladin on that Isle, since all Elites kill me on the fly.
So I have to play with friends again. Great move there.
----- > That Isle has no flying either and I love it.
Off topic: I also like the free lvl 90: WOW needs that for returning players. Warlock or Mage or Hunter, not decided yet.
btw: I think WoW is starting on an upward trend by now. Not because I am back, but too many things are done right these days.
1. Connected realms: a wet dream comes true. Long live revived economies.
2. World PvP zone with no ending (aka as AV Vanilla)
3. Your own Garrison - but this time done right - with barracks, towers, armories, Inn and all of the Guild can come in and have a drink. I like the monuments you can build in honor of your achievements too and of course the promised small interiors in each of these buildings.
It stays good old WOW alright - within its own limits - but frankly apart from Destiny and HS, my time will be filled more than enough.
CATA and MOP were too far from the Original settings, so this expansion is really going back to the roots, but with modern technology.
WoW will last until the movie hype takes over.
Then we will see probably TITAN by 2017.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Originally posted by Bladestrom And ye no flying mounts until later so they can manage the levelling experience is ofc a win!
they had no flying in earlier expansions too (level requirements have changed since launch)
BC - you had to be 70 (max level)
WOTLK - you had be 77 with your first character (max level 80)
I like they *finally* recognize that dailies are unpopular
Kickstarter: Stuff I'm supporting
ITs nice that we will have to explore the land on foot. Hopefully there are more treasures to find around (like the pandarian treasures or better).
With that said, i think a good way to incorporate flying mounts would be if the skies are also plagued with flying monsters, and NPC guards from both factions scouting the areas and they are hostile on sight and have a slightly high chance to drop you form your mount and follow you to the ground if you survive then fight you there. Something like that. Of course if you are too high you wont survive, but you took the risk of flying high and got surprised by one or more enemy scouts.
Originally posted by expresso Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Pretty silly decision if you ask me.
I don't disagree that flying mounts killed the world and made it appear "dead", but it's too late now. Flying mounts are part of the game, like it or not. One should be able to fly as soon as he hits the new max level.
Never liked the way they handled flying in new expansions. I should be able to fly places if I want; instead they come up with increasingly asinine reasons (lore wise) flying isn't allowed.
There's no reason they can't design leveling content around flying mounts.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
So let me get this straight: It's greedy to want to keep the money you've earned, but it's NOT greedy to want to take money that somebody else earned away from them? Only the left wing could come up with that kind of insane troll logic. It's got the stamp of their common core all over it.
Originally posted by BadSpock I am hoping this is a "try to soften the blow to come later" thing where they finally announce there will be NO flying in Draenor ever. Like... ever.
That would be silly, and definitely won't happen in my opinion. People have been collecting flying mounts for years now, and sorry, but I can imagine many of them very pissed if they suddenly can't use them anymore in the latest expansion.
The mistake was made in TBC when they first added flying mounts. That should never have happened. Now it's way too late, they are part of the game, and completely ruling them out in new content won't happen except in specific places like the islands in Pandaria.
My guess according to the posts of the officials is that there will be some kind of quest line during 6.0, along with some rep. grinds (Blizzard loves rep. grinds), in order to unlock flying in 6.1. How they implement that will decide if I buy the expansion on release day, or later when 6.1 is released, or never. For instance if they require to complete all raids of 6.0 to be able to fly again, they have lost me as a customer for my two accounts, since I don't intend to raid again.
This said, this system will increase the value of having two accounts like me even more... once my main DK has hit 100 and got flying, I will simply use my two seat rocket to dual log and level my alts.
It's weird to me that this is such an issue.
EQ2 still has flying mounts in the latest xpac and it didn't kill a thing. You can't scout harvest nodes or shinies unless you fly low enough to get tagged. You don't get any real benefit other than the lay of the land. All the details are still done on the ground.
I wonder if this is more a reason to push open pvp which they're touting in this xpac. In another thread comment they mention flying trivializes combat, but they have no problem offering insta-levels and trivializing that. So what's the beef in trivializing combat, if that is even true. Overland combat is usually fairly trivial anyway. Something seems to be afoot at the Circle-K, but I can't quite figure it out since I don't play the game. But something definitely seems not quite right.
You know, I'm not disagreeing with you perse...but what I don't get is why do people who don't want flying in the game using the it ruins the immersion just you know...not use flying mounts.?
Doesn't that seem more logical to just for the sake of immersion as you say not use the mounts.
World of Draenor = 6.0
So we'll just have to wait for another patch. It's silly doing it like this though. They should just restrict certain zones and areas from flying, instead of waiting for a whole patch.
Originally posted by Graey Originally posted by expresso Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Pretty silly decision if you ask me.
I actually did that not long ago. I started all the way north near Silvermoon city on a ground mount, rode all the way down to Booty Bay, took the ship to ratchet and then bird to Uldum, and rode back all the way up to the top of Mnt Hyjal. It was great fun, and I even saw a few details I haven't noticed before even though I play this games since beta.
All you have to do is to take some initiative. You don't need the game to force something on you to do it. You're a human being, not a lemming ;-)
I actually stopwatched the whole ride. That's taking the shortest path, and with a 240% ground riding speed (guild bonus and Death Knight).
From Silvermoon to the docks of Booty Bay, it took approx. 35 minutes. I reset the stopwatch then until I was in Uldum, at Schnottz's Landing.
From there to the top of Mnt Hyjal, going through Felwood, passing the chasm in Winterspring by jumping through the hills north side, it took approx. 50 minutes - Kalimdor is a way worse navigational nightmare than Eastern Kingdoms, specially since they removed the "Great Lift" (would have been easier coming from the North actually).
Yeah, even just "vanilla" continents are huge
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by Graey Originally posted by expresso Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Pretty silly decision if you ask me.
It’s all fine saying “you don’t have to fly”, you’re right if people don’t like flying they don’t have to, playing MOP I ran until max level didn’t even use a ground mount and I loved it.
The main issue with flying mounts and I cannot see how anyone could dispute this is that it restricts what blizzard can put into the world, any content they add they have to remember that players can simply fly over it land kill the mob and fly away, why bother putting groups of mobs around the area a player need not worry.
Lots say WoW is easy mode and it’s the practiced of swopping into an area killing a quest mob and swopping back out ignoring the other hazards that has contributed to this feeling.
Make a player work to complete a quest, make a player fight through a group of mobs requiring him to CC, kite and use abilities to get through, make a player negotiate an enemy camp avoiding, hiding and fighting to achieve the quest.
Currently with flying you might as well add a system where you teleport to a quest mob, press the IWIN button and teleport back to the quest giver for loot.
Solutions like putting in flying enemies, invisible walls, AA cannons sound great but will ultimately just piss players off, imagine blizzard having to put in squadrons of flying mobs over most enemy camps and questing areas, you might as well just remove flying.
I want to see content off in the distance and wonder to myself what it is and how do I get there? I want to see what looks like a cave entrance in the side of mountain but no obvious route to get there, I want to come across a large fort in the world surrounded by elite mobs and wonder to myself what is inside. With flying I don’t have to wonder I just mount up and fly there. Where’s the adventure in that?
Trust me, I understand what you're saying - as I said myself, I think adding flying at all was a huge mistake - but as I also said, it's way too late to go back now, and I don't have a doubt that I'm right on that.
The Blizzard designers should have thought about those problems before adding flying. But hey, they made a ton of money over the years thanks to flying too... ;-)
And about the "you can just fly over to get to the mob you have to kill" part... you know how people were doing it before? Graveyard runs. Run through as a ghost. The death system in WoW has always allowed to skip big parts of content even before flying. Just run until you die, and then rince/repeat. The repair price is a joke anyway.
So you know what people will do for that "chest on a hill surrounded by hordes of enemies"? Just run through using defensive cooldowns, die near the mob, run back, resurrect, and kill the one they need.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Trust me, I understand what you're saying - as I said myself, I think adding flying at all was a huge mistake - but as I also said, it's way too late to go back now, and I don't have a doubt that I'm right on that. The Blizzard designers should have thought about those problems before adding flying. But hey, they made a ton of money over the years thanks to flying too... ;-) And about the "you can just fly over to get to the mob you have to kill" part... you know how people were doing it before? Graveyard runs. Run through as a ghost. The death system in WoW has always allowed to skip big parts of content even before flying. Just run until you die, and then rince/repeat. The repair price is a joke anyway. So you know what people will do for that "chest on a hill surrounded by hordes of enemies"? Just run through using defensive cooldowns, die near the mob, run back, resurrect, and kill the one they need.
Yes ghost running is a thing, but it can be time consuming, more so if a graveyard is not to very close, it also requires a little fore-thought, you might need to corpse run several times to get to where you need to res and then you need to get out using the same method or suffer sickness, few will commit to killing themselves half a dozen times to kill a quest mob they will go at it as intended. A player then needs to go repair.
Given the choice;
Originally posted by expresso ....................
So many better ways to achieve this than removing the players option of flight. they could just be honest in the quest- if you want the player to kill 25 mobs, just make that the requirement instead of 3 mobs of 1 type surrounded by 22 slightly different ones. Use more escort quests instead of the standard click cage release prisoner type thing, stuff that makes you stick around. Also, unless you get lucky and someone has already cleared the area, you usually have to do it yourself- once you land you obviously can't take off again with agro. There is many things they could do along these lines to control how questing is done.
second, I wonder if they really thought this through. WoW has content that ranges from extremely simple to very challenging. Personally if they made normal questing the way you are talking about, "work" CC.. basically trying in any way and I'd be done with it. Soloing in wow is like watching reruns on tv, its a mildly entertaining activity only slightly more challenging than taking a nap. I thought they figured out back in cataclysm that no matter what people may say, most players don't want to be challenged.. like at all, ever. I know I don't usually, and if I am in the mood to be challenged I won't be doing solo content.