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Is denial of Cheaters in competitive gaming, a defense mechanism?

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  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    I in no way think this is scientific or accurate, but I have asked it many many...many times over the years on forums I frequent and it's always the same basic trend. The above avg votes are always the lions share of votes. It's just human nature to think that way. If you ignore what people actually vote and look at above and below the middle point it's kind of funny to see the results, but not unexpected.

    I've also asked the opposite question " what do you think the avg gamers skill lvl is " and it's always the same as well. Poor or below avg. ( it's a trick question of course because the skill lvl is...avg. :) )

    Avg is of course a meaningless term because I never give it any type of defining level. I just want to know what people think of themselves not what their actual skill level is.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/399599/page/1

      True, it's one thing to click a button and blatantly state, "I'm better than everyone" without any evidence. However, if that same said person can back their claim as to why/how they're better than the average person then you cannot deny that they're actually better than the average gamer.

    It's entirely possible only above avg people reply to a thread like that. There are ways to measure if an individual is skilled at something. It's even easier if a game has public stats. I was only expressing that in my experience most people think they're above avg...which they obviously can't be by definition :)

      You know what term I hate to see when people throw it around? Pro.

     People are not a "Pro" in the game unless you're a professional. Which means you've made the game you're playing into a profession which means you're making money off of the game. If you're not making money from the game you're not a professional therefore you're not "Pro" so don't use it folks!

     Lol, sorry I hate when people say things like that.

     You should have added "pro" at the top of the 1% to see how many people actually selected that option.

    I've always thought of it as meaning the majority of your income is generated from that thing. As in you can't just earn $1 and call yourself a pro, that would be kind of meaningless.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Holophonist

    I think most of the time it's not really a denial that cheating exists, but rather a denial that it exists in any significant amount. I've played like 6k games of sc2 and I'm pretty sure I've lost at least 5x as many games to my internet going down than I have to cheaters... and I have good internet.

     

    I think complaining about cheaters is the real form of denial.

      Well, to be fair I don't believe I've ever seen anyone cheat on SC2. Blizzard definitely has that game on lockdown.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,353Member Uncommon
    It depends, because a lot of accusations of cheating stems from the fact that a player is simply better than another. I've been booted from so many games of battlefield and counterstrike and call of duty simply because i can get headshots, and react fast. Even on the xbox in halo I got reported for having a "modded" controller when I don't. There is cheaters, and always will be simply because it's too easy to break into games, but it isn't AS common as most people make it out to be.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Panther2103
    It depends, because a lot of accusations of cheating stems from the fact that a player is simply better than another. I've been booted from so many games of battlefield and counterstrike and call of duty simply because i can get headshots, and react fast. Even on the xbox in halo I got reported for having a "modded" controller when I don't. There is cheaters, and always will be simply because it's too easy to break into games, but it isn't AS common as most people make it out to be.

      That depends what type of system you're playing on. Cheating on a Computer is much more common than someone cheating on an Xbox, Playstation, or WII.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 182Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Joker1977
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

    I can always tell if the person is a good player or a cheater, based on the extent at which they're better than me. Being someone who has played for so long and actually played against tournament players, it's a world of difference. Playing against a tournament player, you lose, but it's not a facepalm loss. In fact, a good player can actually geek them a few times even if they ultimately lose. That is because pro players are not enormously advanced beyond good players, they are just better than them by a bit, or if a great player maybe by double or triple at most.

    Meanwhile, cheaters are not "twice as good" or triple the skill of a great player. They are 10x-100x faster, 10x more accurate, 10x more damaging, 10x more predicting, etc. When a great player fights a pro tourny player and loses by about 1:2, and then fights someone and loses by 0:10, it's pretty obvious. It is highly unlikely that the latter is the world's best pro player, and just happens to have never entered any tournaments.

    I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage.

    While I stopped playing FPS competitively after Quake and Unreal Tournament faded (I don't see Counterstrike / BF games as an environment to test individual player skill) you couldn't be more wrong. I played in a team that won country CTF championships and I know that when one of us joined a public server we could hold the whole game by ourselves. I'm not trying to piss in our pockets but there is an order of magnitude between good players and average. If you were to duel a top 10 world player you wouldn't just get beat you'd get smashed.

     

    Bots may be different today but back then they weren't more powerful, etc they only had better aim (than the average people that used them). Even so, a good player good could beat a bot back then because most were in the hands of average players. A good player back in my day had a hit rate in the 90's % (which required a lot of play time to maintain) which wasn't all that less than bots of the day.

     

    "I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage."

     

    That's just rubbish in my experience - maybe the people you associated with but I never saw that behavior.

     

     

     

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Joker1977
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

    I can always tell if the person is a good player or a cheater, based on the extent at which they're better than me. Being someone who has played for so long and actually played against tournament players, it's a world of difference. Playing against a tournament player, you lose, but it's not a facepalm loss. In fact, a good player can actually geek them a few times even if they ultimately lose. That is because pro players are not enormously advanced beyond good players, they are just better than them by a bit, or if a great player maybe by double or triple at most.

    Meanwhile, cheaters are not "twice as good" or triple the skill of a great player. They are 10x-100x faster, 10x more accurate, 10x more damaging, 10x more predicting, etc. When a great player fights a pro tourny player and loses by about 1:2, and then fights someone and loses by 0:10, it's pretty obvious. It is highly unlikely that the latter is the world's best pro player, and just happens to have never entered any tournaments.

    I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage.

    While I stopped playing FPS competitively after Quake and Unreal Tournament faded (I don't see Counterstrike / BF games as an environment to test individual player skill) you couldn't be more wrong. I played in a team that won country CTF championships and I know that when one of us joined a public server we could hold the whole game by ourselves. I'm not trying to piss in our pockets but there is an order of magnitude between good players and average. If you were to duel a top 10 world player you wouldn't just get beat you'd get smashed.

     

    Bots may be different today but back then they weren't more powerful, etc they only had better aim (than the average people that used them). Even so, a good player good could beat a bot back then because most were in the hands of average players. A good player back in my day had a hit rate in the 90's % (which required a lot of play time to maintain) which wasn't all that less than bots of the day.

     

    "I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage."

     

    That's just rubbish in my experience - maybe the people you associated with but I never saw that behavior.

     

     

     

      I'm sorry but if you're botting properly you don't miss.

     In addition to the other comments that you've stated, it's quite possible to be an army of one in games like BF, Counterstrike, and Call of Duty. While they're for the most part "different" than the older games like Quake and Unreal Tournament. They're actually quite easy to hold down an entire team of enemy players. For example, my team back on COD:MW (Divine Talent) use to be more than capable to have any one of our players hold down and spawn camp an opposing team.

     Competitive teams just have to think slightly more in order to control their opponent. Rather than players being forced into a static spawning location people are randomly spawned around on the map based on location that have least amount of players. So a team simply needs to figure out where the possible spawn locations are and practice at keeping control of where exactly the opposing team would spawn. After a team perfects spawn locations it's only matter of time to complete the objective whether it be Capture the Flag, Sabotage, Team Deathmatch, or for a lesser extent Oddball (keepaway). 

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Dallas, TXPosts: 1,069Member Uncommon
    When I played pro CS back in the day - I could not ever play on any public server. Always banned for 'cheating'. Never once cheated in any video game. Now some cheating is completely obvious. However, lesser skilled players often times think they can tell the difference, but really cant. I've been on both sides of that as well. Playing a game where I didn't understand a mechanic and it potentially appeared to be exploitive, only to find out later that it wasn't the case.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon

    The fact that there are cheaters doesn't automatically mean that you lost against a cheater. This is what I mainly used to see in fps games. Some ppl are really ridiculously good at anticipating other people's moves in a map and at aiming.

    A friend of mine who I suspected of cheating, I saw him play several times while sitting next to him. He really was that good. Using a sniper rifle without even zooming in, he was just headshotting anyone he saw. And the most impressive part is that his knowledge of the maps made him very good at predicting where people went. Shooting them right away they appeared from behind a wall. His timing for upgrades and buffs was also ridiculous, but then he also said that he was counting in his head lol. Anyway, he got called cheater all the time. I just suspect he is a robot :p

    This does not mean that there are no aimbots ofc.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Joker1977
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

    I can always tell if the person is a good player or a cheater, based on the extent at which they're better than me. Being someone who has played for so long and actually played against tournament players, it's a world of difference. Playing against a tournament player, you lose, but it's not a facepalm loss. In fact, a good player can actually geek them a few times even if they ultimately lose. That is because pro players are not enormously advanced beyond good players, they are just better than them by a bit, or if a great player maybe by double or triple at most.

    Meanwhile, cheaters are not "twice as good" or triple the skill of a great player. They are 10x-100x faster, 10x more accurate, 10x more damaging, 10x more predicting, etc. When a great player fights a pro tourny player and loses by about 1:2, and then fights someone and loses by 0:10, it's pretty obvious. It is highly unlikely that the latter is the world's best pro player, and just happens to have never entered any tournaments.

    I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage.

    While I stopped playing FPS competitively after Quake and Unreal Tournament faded (I don't see Counterstrike / BF games as an environment to test individual player skill) you couldn't be more wrong. I played in a team that won country CTF championships and I know that when one of us joined a public server we could hold the whole game by ourselves. I'm not trying to piss in our pockets but there is an order of magnitude between good players and average. If you were to duel a top 10 world player you wouldn't just get beat you'd get smashed.

     

    Bots may be different today but back then they weren't more powerful, etc they only had better aim (than the average people that used them). Even so, a good player good could beat a bot back then because most were in the hands of average players. A good player back in my day had a hit rate in the 90's % (which required a lot of play time to maintain) which wasn't all that less than bots of the day.

     

    "I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage."

     

    That's just rubbish in my experience - maybe the people you associated with but I never saw that behavior.

     

     

     

      I'm sorry but if you're botting properly you don't miss.

     In addition to the other comments that you've stated, it's quite possible to be an army of one in games like BF, Counterstrike, and Call of Duty. While they're for the most part "different" than the older games like Quake and Unreal Tournament. They're actually quite easy to hold down an entire team of enemy players. For example, my team back on COD:MW (Divine Talent) use to be more than capable to have any one of our players hold down and spawn camp an opposing team.

     Competitive teams just have to think slightly more in order to control their opponent. Rather than players being forced into a static spawning location people are randomly spawned around on the map based on location that have least amount of players. So a team simply needs to figure out where the possible spawn locations are and practice at keeping control of where exactly the opposing team would spawn. After a team perfects spawn locations it's only matter of time to complete the objective whether it be Capture the Flag, Sabotage, Team Deathmatch, or for a lesser extent Oddball (keepaway). 

    It doesn't matter if a bot doesn't miss. Half of being a good player is anticipating what the other does and knowing when upgrades pop up (you can take a hit with a shield). In UT they would drop a couple of rockets where you were going to appear from behind a wall with perfect timing. Or that combo with the shock rifle. Good luck getting a chance for your bot to work.

  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 182Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      I'm sorry but if you're botting properly you don't miss.

    I re read my post and I still cant see where I said bots miss.

     

    /loads up RPG , fires, misses by 10 yards but still kills 5 ppl - there I showed those bads how to play

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Joker1977
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

    I can always tell if the person is a good player or a cheater, based on the extent at which they're better than me. Being someone who has played for so long and actually played against tournament players, it's a world of difference. Playing against a tournament player, you lose, but it's not a facepalm loss. In fact, a good player can actually geek them a few times even if they ultimately lose. That is because pro players are not enormously advanced beyond good players, they are just better than them by a bit, or if a great player maybe by double or triple at most.

    Meanwhile, cheaters are not "twice as good" or triple the skill of a great player. They are 10x-100x faster, 10x more accurate, 10x more damaging, 10x more predicting, etc. When a great player fights a pro tourny player and loses by about 1:2, and then fights someone and loses by 0:10, it's pretty obvious. It is highly unlikely that the latter is the world's best pro player, and just happens to have never entered any tournaments.

    I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage.

    While I stopped playing FPS competitively after Quake and Unreal Tournament faded (I don't see Counterstrike / BF games as an environment to test individual player skill) you couldn't be more wrong. I played in a team that won country CTF championships and I know that when one of us joined a public server we could hold the whole game by ourselves. I'm not trying to piss in our pockets but there is an order of magnitude between good players and average. If you were to duel a top 10 world player you wouldn't just get beat you'd get smashed.

     

    Bots may be different today but back then they weren't more powerful, etc they only had better aim (than the average people that used them). Even so, a good player good could beat a bot back then because most were in the hands of average players. A good player back in my day had a hit rate in the 90's % (which required a lot of play time to maintain) which wasn't all that less than bots of the day.

     

    "I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage."

     

    That's just rubbish in my experience - maybe the people you associated with but I never saw that behavior.

     

     

     

      I'm sorry but if you're botting properly you don't miss.

     In addition to the other comments that you've stated, it's quite possible to be an army of one in games like BF, Counterstrike, and Call of Duty. While they're for the most part "different" than the older games like Quake and Unreal Tournament. They're actually quite easy to hold down an entire team of enemy players. For example, my team back on COD:MW (Divine Talent) use to be more than capable to have any one of our players hold down and spawn camp an opposing team.

     Competitive teams just have to think slightly more in order to control their opponent. Rather than players being forced into a static spawning location people are randomly spawned around on the map based on location that have least amount of players. So a team simply needs to figure out where the possible spawn locations are and practice at keeping control of where exactly the opposing team would spawn. After a team perfects spawn locations it's only matter of time to complete the objective whether it be Capture the Flag, Sabotage, Team Deathmatch, or for a lesser extent Oddball (keepaway). 

    It doesn't matter if a bot doesn't miss. Half of being a good player is anticipating what the other does and knowing when upgrades pop up (you can take a hit with a shield). In UT they would drop a couple of rockets where you were going to appear from behind a wall with perfect timing. Or that combo with the shock rifle. Good luck getting a chance for your bot to work.

      Botting was actually significantly easier back then. Remember that X-ray hacks were more than alive around then as well. So it's very easy for a cheater to determine how to deal with a skilled player. A hacker can always think 10 steps ahead of a skilled player due to the fact that they could determine multiple routes to remove said rooted player camping any position.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon

    Cheaters and hackers. The reason why ill probably never play another competitive PC game made by Rockstar.

    Max Payne 3 multiplayer, one of my most favorite mp third person shooters out there completely ruined on PC thanks to cheaters and hackers. I switched to the console version but it wasnt fun enough without my friends who played on PC.

    Way to kill a game......

    image
  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 182Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Botting was actually significantly easier back then. Remember that X-ray hacks were more than alive around then as well. So it's very easy for a cheater to determine how to deal with a skilled player. A hacker can always think 10 steps ahead of a skilled player due to the fact that they could determine multiple routes to remove said rooted player camping any position.

    There were no xray hacks in the 90's. That was one signal that someone was botting i.e that there chars aim was trying to track thru a wall. First I heard of xray hacks was some point in Counterstrike (which I never played).

     

  • stuxstux Lake Forest, ILPosts: 462Member
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

     

     

     

    The "good player" phrased is so over used.  MOST people think they are good players therefore should be the one to define who is cheating.

     

    It is all perspective.  Yes, people cheat.  Yes, it sucks.  No, it is not going away.

     

    IMO, the biggest deniers of cheats typically are cheating.  

     

    Private servers seam like the logical path to me.  Let people play on smaller version of the game and invite friends they trust to PvP with.

     

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Joker1977
    Originally posted by Nephelai

    He has a point.

     

    Back in my Quake days I was pretty good with the Railgun and almost every night I had to put up with people calling me a bot. There are two types of players - good players who can spot genuine cheating and bad players who assume everyone that beats them is a bot. In my experience there are orders of magnitude more of the latter which are the ones in denial.

    I can always tell if the person is a good player or a cheater, based on the extent at which they're better than me. Being someone who has played for so long and actually played against tournament players, it's a world of difference. Playing against a tournament player, you lose, but it's not a facepalm loss. In fact, a good player can actually geek them a few times even if they ultimately lose. That is because pro players are not enormously advanced beyond good players, they are just better than them by a bit, or if a great player maybe by double or triple at most.

    Meanwhile, cheaters are not "twice as good" or triple the skill of a great player. They are 10x-100x faster, 10x more accurate, 10x more damaging, 10x more predicting, etc. When a great player fights a pro tourny player and loses by about 1:2, and then fights someone and loses by 0:10, it's pretty obvious. It is highly unlikely that the latter is the world's best pro player, and just happens to have never entered any tournaments.

    I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage.

    While I stopped playing FPS competitively after Quake and Unreal Tournament faded (I don't see Counterstrike / BF games as an environment to test individual player skill) you couldn't be more wrong. I played in a team that won country CTF championships and I know that when one of us joined a public server we could hold the whole game by ourselves. I'm not trying to piss in our pockets but there is an order of magnitude between good players and average. If you were to duel a top 10 world player you wouldn't just get beat you'd get smashed.

     

    Bots may be different today but back then they weren't more powerful, etc they only had better aim (than the average people that used them). Even so, a good player good could beat a bot back then because most were in the hands of average players. A good player back in my day had a hit rate in the 90's % (which required a lot of play time to maintain) which wasn't all that less than bots of the day.

     

    "I remember back in the 90's, everyone had cheats even if they didn't use them. If they spotted a cheater, they would turn on their cheats to compete with the cheater. It was kindof interesting, as the other cheater would usually leave because their cheats no longer gave them an advantage."

     

    That's just rubbish in my experience - maybe the people you associated with but I never saw that behavior.

     

     

     

      I'm sorry but if you're botting properly you don't miss.

     In addition to the other comments that you've stated, it's quite possible to be an army of one in games like BF, Counterstrike, and Call of Duty. While they're for the most part "different" than the older games like Quake and Unreal Tournament. They're actually quite easy to hold down an entire team of enemy players. For example, my team back on COD:MW (Divine Talent) use to be more than capable to have any one of our players hold down and spawn camp an opposing team.

     Competitive teams just have to think slightly more in order to control their opponent. Rather than players being forced into a static spawning location people are randomly spawned around on the map based on location that have least amount of players. So a team simply needs to figure out where the possible spawn locations are and practice at keeping control of where exactly the opposing team would spawn. After a team perfects spawn locations it's only matter of time to complete the objective whether it be Capture the Flag, Sabotage, Team Deathmatch, or for a lesser extent Oddball (keepaway). 

    It doesn't matter if a bot doesn't miss. Half of being a good player is anticipating what the other does and knowing when upgrades pop up (you can take a hit with a shield). In UT they would drop a couple of rockets where you were going to appear from behind a wall with perfect timing. Or that combo with the shock rifle. Good luck getting a chance for your bot to work.

      Botting was actually significantly easier back then. Remember that X-ray hacks were more than alive around then as well. So it's very easy for a cheater to determine how to deal with a skilled player. A hacker can always think 10 steps ahead of a skilled player due to the fact that they could determine multiple routes to remove said rooted player camping any position.

    Look all I can say is that I suspect that a lot more times cheating is called then that it was actually cheating. I saw it with my own eyes how someone (who I before suspected of cheating somehow) simply beat others by knowing where they went. He was just playing with the other ppl in the way he was predicting where they would show up and then killed them with some dropped rocket or a shockgun combo. It was the timing which was so impressive. I was sitting next to that person. No X-ray, no aimbot. He just knew exactly when upgrades would pop up and the most obvious routes that players would take and how long it would take. Besides, he was basically an aimbot himself the way he headshotted everyone from the hip (no zooming in).

    Some random player with an aimbot or even xray would still lose. But then I am not familiar with any fps beyond UT, UT2004 and the Quake series. If there is no extra armour or shields, then an aimbot obviously becomes more of a problem, even in the hands of a noob.

     

  • KallendalKallendal NA, MDPosts: 9Member

    This is a GREAT Thread!

    [Edit: Notice many folks talking about FPS games.  I am referring to MMORPGs  below.  Thanks]

    For me this is a simple matter of well.. Good Business.

    Correct, hacks and cheats have been around forever.

    "No they WORK with the Devil!! THAT is why the exorcism worked!  That was not Divinity!!!!"

    but before I sound like a bad movie plot line (that also makes billions), I regress.....

    Business.

    It is either GOOD, or BAD.  GREY is for saps.  Almost doesn't count on a product. Thanks to Suc... errr I mean iPeople! I mean! well you get the point.

    People... Trying to establish some strange “sudo-cyber punk gaming guru status quo” kept stating and advertising something was SO WORTH the price tag..... Businessess of course Capitalized.  They made more junk and people bought into it.

    Democracy, capitolism, ALL GOOD imho. 

    Bottom line though, business just settled for people spending money like mad on something that look/felt great, but was just the same repeat.  new skins, etc.  BUT If  people are  hacking on a server, why am I paying you?

    $15.00 x 500000 customers equals uh. $7,500,000

    DAMN.

    And if that isn't enough for some decent security on a Video game.. what price tag is?

    15 mil?  1 Billion?

    See, the FFP setup works really well to sap a few more extra bucks here and there out of a consumer.

    But the business is still horrible. NOT GOOD BUSINESS AT ALL.  Nothing you could call good.  AND THAT is what needs improved on.

    Otherwise charge less, and offer what it is a game, that is going to be hacked.  Your money doesn't help keep it clean running, it just makes us richer.  And that my little kiddiees is the trurth.  Find a MMORPG that advertises “clean running security and anti-hack technology” from fromt he hip.

    EA is prime example of a LARGE group who spits out junk consistantly.  Good Junk... but. still hacked and cheated on.

    You would think with as many MMOs as they have been part of they would have PERFECTED a great anti-cheat/hack system by now.  SOMETHING.

    An initative.  Hope?   But nah.

    Keep making us richer.

    I remember when your gaming Rig was the only thing that counted for something...

    Now there is network security, and ( I woudl hope) some kind of server security.

    *raises a glass*

    But here *CHEERS* is for the next secure video game inovation to one day comes along.

    And for my second toast *raises glass*

    Thank you for starting this thread Joker1977.  Honestly, Wish it would come up at a E3 convention.  Or some place where the Devs can be cornered.

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    Who's Goldtoof?

    You lost me with that statement.

    The person whose post this entire thread is about.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • dorugudorugu falkenbergPosts: 165Member Uncommon

    problem is how do one kno the person on the other sides cheating? culöd b a pro some1 tht knows the game like th back of the hand

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dorugu

    problem is how do one kno the person on the other sides cheating? culöd b a pro some1 tht knows the game like th back of the hand

    shooting you in the chest with a virtual shotgun and not doing any damage to you while you kill everyone with one single shot is not really part of knowing the game at all. And that is not lag.

    image
  • AngztAngzt berlinPosts: 230Member

    and how exactly did they cheat on pong again?

     

    what's up with those forums tonite, trolls seem to be busier than usual

    "believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kallendal

    This is a GREAT Thread!

    [Edit: Notice many folks talking about FPS games.  I am referring to MMORPGs  below.  Thanks]

    For me this is a simple matter of well.. Good Business.

    Correct, hacks and cheats have been around forever.

    "No they WORK with the Devil!! THAT is why the exorcism worked!  That was not Divinity!!!!"

    but before I sound like a bad movie plot line (that also makes billions), I regress.....

    Business.

    It is either GOOD, or BAD.  GREY is for saps.  Almost doesn't count on a product. Thanks to Suc... errr I mean iPeople! I mean! well you get the point.

    People... Trying to establish some strange “sudo-cyber punk gaming guru status quo” kept stating and advertising something was SO WORTH the price tag..... Businessess of course Capitalized.  They made more junk and people bought into it.

    Democracy, capitolism, ALL GOOD imho. 

    Bottom line though, business just settled for people spending money like mad on something that look/felt great, but was just the same repeat.  new skins, etc.  BUT If  people are  hacking on a server, why am I paying you?

    $15.00 x 500000 customers equals uh. $7,500,000

    DAMN.

    And if that isn't enough for some decent security on a Video game.. what price tag is?

    15 mil?  1 Billion?

    See, the FFP setup works really well to sap a few more extra bucks here and there out of a consumer.

    But the business is still horrible. NOT GOOD BUSINESS AT ALL.  Nothing you could call good.  AND THAT is what needs improved on.

    Otherwise charge less, and offer what it is a game, that is going to be hacked.  Your money doesn't help keep it clean running, it just makes us richer.  And that my little kiddiees is the trurth.  Find a MMORPG that advertises “clean running security and anti-hack technology” from fromt he hip.

    EA is prime example of a LARGE group who spits out junk consistantly.  Good Junk... but. still hacked and cheated on.

    You would think with as many MMOs as they have been part of they would have PERFECTED a great anti-cheat/hack system by now.  SOMETHING.

    An initative.  Hope?   But nah.

    Keep making us richer.

    I remember when your gaming Rig was the only thing that counted for something...

    Now there is network security, and ( I woudl hope) some kind of server security.

    *raises a glass*

    But here *CHEERS* is for the next secure video game inovation to one day comes along.

    And for my second toast *raises glass*

    Thank you for starting this thread Joker1977.  Honestly, Wish it would come up at a E3 convention.  Or some place where the Devs can be cornered.

     

     

     You lost me, it seems as though you rambled on about different things. Could you... rephrase it to make some sense?

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by angzt

    and how exactly did they cheat on pong again?

    By removing the ping, obviously

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nephelai
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Botting was actually significantly easier back then. Remember that X-ray hacks were more than alive around then as well. So it's very easy for a cheater to determine how to deal with a skilled player. A hacker can always think 10 steps ahead of a skilled player due to the fact that they could determine multiple routes to remove said rooted player camping any position.

    There were no xray hacks in the 90's. That was one signal that someone was botting i.e that there chars aim was trying to track thru a wall. First I heard of xray hacks was some point in Counterstrike (which I never played).

     

     

    Counterstrike

    <table hproduct"="" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3"> Release date(s) Windows
    • WW June 19, 1999 (Mod)

     

     Just for starters and yes. There were X-Ray hacks back then.

     

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon

    uh oh I can't edit my previous post.

     I stated that yes, there were X-Ray hacks in the 90's.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    uh oh I can't edit my previous post.

     I stated that yes, there were X-Ray hacks in the 90's.

    uh ... just what were you trying to do in that last post that caused the forum code to break? :)

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