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[Preview] Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft: Changes in Blizzard’s Deck of Cards

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,643MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

During Blizzcon, the Hearthstone team announced some significant changes and new additions for the popular TCG currently in beta testing. We'd like to share our take on the announcements so head on through the jump to check it out. When finished, chat about the article in the comments.

The breakdown from BlizzCon was pretty straight forward in terms of changes. Certain cards are being balanced out. The biggest one was Mind Control which can be found in the Priest deck. Mind Control allows you to take control of an enemy minion. It costs 8 mana currently. The main issue with this card is that once an opponent summons a “heavy hitter” minion, usually summoned in the later rounds, the Priest can take control of it. A smart player who can save The Coin card can do it on Turn 7. Once you get ahold of it your opponent is in trouble. Making this card a 10 mana cost is a very fair nerf for the game. Anyone who has played against Priests will agree wholeheartedly.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Hearthstone: Changes in Blizzard’s Deck of Cards.

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Comments

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 878Member Uncommon
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • DewulfDewulf JoensuuPosts: 99Member Uncommon
    why the hell did they nerf hunter, unleash the beast combo is one of the easiest to counter.
  • TalruneTalrune Cortland, ILPosts: 339Member
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    Exactly from a person that has never cared for these type of games so why then cmment on a genre you could care less about?

     It is actually fun and as the article mentions you can put in a few minutes of play and walk away or play for a couple hours if you so chose to.

     

    It is extremely fun in my opinion.

  • garrettgarrett Posts: 261MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dewulf
    why the hell did they nerf hunter, unleash the beast combo is one of the easiest to counter.

    They found that Hunter was winning about 10% more games using Hounds. Also, Ben said they are changing it, not necessarily nerfing it. 

     :p 
  • urbanmechurbanmech Toronto, ONPosts: 170Member Uncommon
    Given WoW and how often classes change, I'm reluctant to spend anything on this in fear of having my cards nerfed.
  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

    Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

     
  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

     

    Wrong.  Player skill and knowledge plays a huge role in both deck building and actual play in CCGs.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa KauhajokiPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Dont matter, i just gonna use 2 legendary when mind control get nerfed.
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Dallas, TXPosts: 1,071Member Uncommon
    One correction that is minor, but kind of a big deal to me. This game is actually a CCG (collectible card game) instead of a TCG (Trading card game). Otherwise I would be very depressed about the gold legendary I disenchanted the other day.  =[
  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    Any real card game has a fair portion of luck in it. That's just part of the game.

    Carté had to close down cause it was too strategic.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    if the game is done well (and that's admittedly a big "if" and i can't answer for sure for hearthstone because i haven't gotten into the beta), there is not as much luck as you think involved in a CCG, at least for constructed and drafted decks.

     

    there's a reason the same magic: the gathering players dominate the pro tour for years at a time (until someone else comes along with a new angle), and it's not because they're just that lucky, nor is it (anymore, at least; look up mike long) the case they cheat- the main events at MTG events are recorded from multiple angles and observed by more than one judge.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • redripredrip Los Angeles, CAPosts: 149Member

    Excellent read Garrett, we must DUEL SOON! :)

    Best,

    Ripper X

     
  • Chivalry1978Chivalry1978 Vandergrift, PAPosts: 184Member

    This was not a very good post but just a rewording of what was said at blizzcon...

     

    The change to Mind controll while needed is just garbage...there were so many better ways to do this.

    Starving buzzard is another dumb change. SImply put with the current meta of the game Hunters are one of the weakest classes. The nerfing to Starving buzzard will in fact kill many possible plays...Snake trap starving buzzard. A 4 mana 2 card drop to draw 3 cards....Far less efficent and reliable then say healing ANY MINION FOR A CARD DRAW. 

    Unleash the hounds needs a change, however the WHOLE DAMN class needs a change. As it stands Hunters are Pigeon holed to play one way to be any where near effective. The average OTK deck runs about 66% or better. Any other hunter build is around 33% or less.  The truth is Unleash the hounds is not the only way to do a OTK combo in this game. Warriors can do it with war song commander and Molten giant. Rogues can do the same things with leroy jenkins and shadow step with some cold blood. These combos require some decent cards. The hunter one requires cheaper cards thus ANY ONE CAN DO IT.

     

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    Dont matter, i just gonna use 2 legendary when mind control get nerfed.

    Because cards like Assassinate, Naturalize, Polymorph, Hex, Shadow words or other forms of insta-card removal do no longer exist in the game?

    Well stated, hidden cry for doing something to the only card that turned any game around. At least abilities such as blood lust & Unleash the beasts require you to possess the table dominance, instead of using 1 card to actually gain the dominance.

     

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    Deck Building and user input are a huge thing for many people like me.  In fact I think it is the #1 reason why I enjoy MMO's like Neverwinter, TSW or GW2 over the more traditional cookie cutter class archetypical classes with the same skills and access to all of them at one time with multiple hotbars.

     

    Give me choice, even illusion of choice and allow me to pick what skills to use and you've got me hooked.  Same holds true in CCG's as well as MMO's.  I suppose it's not a streatch of the imagination to say I enjoy it more because I was playing competitive CCG's 10 years before I started MMO's.  SO when ever an MMO offers me this same freedom I usually latch onto it pretty long term!

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Chivalry1978

    This was not a very good post but just a rewording of what was said at blizzcon...

     

    The change to Mind controll while needed is just garbage...there were so many better ways to do this.

    Starving buzzard is another dumb change. SImply put with the current meta of the game Hunters are one of the weakest classes. The nerfing to Starving buzzard will in fact kill many possible plays...Snake trap starving buzzard. A 4 mana 2 card drop to draw 3 cards....Far less efficent and reliable then say healing ANY MINION FOR A CARD DRAW. 

    Unleash the hounds needs a change, however the WHOLE DAMN class needs a change. As it stands Hunters are Pigeon holed to play one way to be any where near effective. The average OTK deck runs about 66% or better. Any other hunter build is around 33% or less.  The truth is Unleash the hounds is not the only way to do a OTK combo in this game. Warriors can do it with war song commander and Molten giant. Rogues can do the same things with leroy jenkins and shadow step with some cold blood. These combos require some decent cards. The hunter one requires cheaper cards thus ANY ONE CAN DO IT.

     

     

    OTK decks are find but the issue with any combo based decks is that it needs to have a high probability of failure.  The Molton Giant, Miracle Rogue and other combo decks are just as effective when they "go off" but getting the card draw engine to "go off" should be the hardest part.  Starving buzzard is not only a piece of the combo but it is the card draw engine to allow it to prevail more often then not.  Same thing with the Old Miracle Rogue Deck. 

     

    The way they nerfed starving buzzard will bare little change in the long run and I was one of those on the forums to proclaim as such.  What should of happened was nerfing the UNleash the Hounds by increasing the mana cost to at least 3 or 4.  This would allow the deck to still go off but at a much later stage then the average turn 7.

     

    Mind Control should be scrapped and in it's place reintroduce Penance in it's place.  http://wiki.teamliquid.net/hearthstone/Penance

     

     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 878Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

    Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

     

    So you're saying that you've never lost a game because you got a few bad draws in a row? Yeah sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

    Did I say it took no skill to play or build a deck? No, I didn't. In fact I even acknowledged that skill plays a large part in minimizing the luck factor. However, minimizing isn't the same thing as eliminating, and for me it's incredibly frustrating to know there's a few good cards which would really help me out of a bad situation (which can be caused either by an opposing player's strategy, or a 'lucky draw' of several good cards in a row), only to be screwed because they were all shuffled to the bottom quarter of the deck.

    Skill is a huge factor, but saying luck doesn't also play a fair part in a CCG is incredibly naive. Denying it doesn't make it untrue.

    I'll add that, for the record, if I were to play a CCG it would probably be Hearthstone. It's definitely the best of the ones I've tried (MTG:O, Scrolls, Card Hunter [not a true CCG though] etc.)

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • xTRIxEDGExxTRIxEDGEx Seaford, NYPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

    Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

     

    So you're saying that you've never lost a game because you got a few bad draws in a row? Yeah sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

    Did I say it took no skill to play or build a deck? No, I didn't. In fact I even acknowledged that skill plays a large part in minimizing the luck factor. However, minimizing isn't the same thing as eliminating, and for me it's incredibly frustrating to know there's a few good cards which would really help me out of a bad situation (which can be caused either by an opposing player's strategy, or a 'lucky draw' of several good cards in a row), only to be screwed because they were all shuffled to the bottom quarter of the deck.

    Skill is a huge factor, but saying luck doesn't also play a fair part in a CCG is incredibly naive. Denying it doesn't make it untrue.

    I'll add that, for the record, if I were to play a CCG it would probably be Hearthstone. It's definitely the best of the ones I've tried (MTG:O, Scrolls, Card Hunter [not a true CCG though] etc.)

     

    MTG is about 75-80 percent skill and 20-25 luck. Skill is the deciding factor in most games, which is why you consistently see the same pro's top 8. If it wasent that would not be happening. You may lose a game or 2 to bad top decks. This is why all MTG tourney's do Bo3, and finals usually Bo5. Also adding onto this is that most tourney's no one goes undefeated.

     

    So no, the game is not majority luck. A good skilled player will win a greater percentage of games on an even playing field. There are other things such as deck building, deck choice, and local/online meta's that also can effect your chance in any tourney. But a good deck choice with tweaks for the expected meta can be done by a skilled player to his/her advantage.

     

    Schooled bruh.

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 804Member Uncommon
    The idea of mmo style balancing in a ccg doesn't sit well with me at all. That it's Blizzard doing the balancing makes it worse.
  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,183Member Uncommon
    Part of the skill of HS or any Card game is not playing a card, is holding back, is trying to get into the mind of the other player, what cards could he possibly have, what cards could he play that could ruin my day now that he's at 7 mana.  The luck is in the draw but there's so much more that determins a win or a lose.
  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Never cared for these kinds of games; there's just too much luck involved. Oh sure it can be minimized somewhat with smart deck building, but it always plays a good part in the outcome of any game regardless of any amount of player skill.

    An ignorant post from someone who has no clue about card games.  While I haven't played much of the newer card games that have sprung up over the years, but I have played Magic The Gathering extensively back in the 90's for a few years and luck has about zero luck.  The luck plays as much of a factor as in WoW PvP when you score some consecutive crits.  A fine tuned deck can demolish about any amateure.

    Some decks will be effective against others, while not so much against others.

     

    So you're saying that you've never lost a game because you got a few bad draws in a row? Yeah sorry, I'm calling bullshit on that one.

    Did I say it took no skill to play or build a deck? No, I didn't. In fact I even acknowledged that skill plays a large part in minimizing the luck factor. However, minimizing isn't the same thing as eliminating, and for me it's incredibly frustrating to know there's a few good cards which would really help me out of a bad situation (which can be caused either by an opposing player's strategy, or a 'lucky draw' of several good cards in a row), only to be screwed because they were all shuffled to the bottom quarter of the deck.

    Skill is a huge factor, but saying luck doesn't also play a fair part in a CCG is incredibly naive. Denying it doesn't make it untrue.

    I'll add that, for the record, if I were to play a CCG it would probably be Hearthstone. It's definitely the best of the ones I've tried (MTG:O, Scrolls, Card Hunter [not a true CCG though] etc.)

    I guess that's why the winners of big tournaments are often the same people year after year.image  It's like saying poker, another card game, is relies largely on luck.  Again, the same people seem to win time after time.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member

    Although I think the 10 mana cost for mind control will not change much, lately I have been beating most Priest decks by simply assuming they have a MC card in hand.

    That way you can lure them in to spend their precious mana on "the second best thing" while you neutralise the stolen card.

    It is all about cards holding back and NOT playing them when you can.

    ---

    Hearthstone is a clear winner again for Blizzard. it makes up for the terrible D3 experience lately.

    And it will blow MTG on line into pieces.

     

    Not because of its more basic game play but simply because it doesn't cost much compared to MTG.

    1. Basic cards and quite good decks cost nothing in HS, while you need to pay at least 20 dollars to enter MTGO.

    2. By dooing one daily in HS (40 to 60 Gold) and 3 wins (included within that daily event) you earn an extra 10 Gold.

    That means you can have one free pack (100 Gold) every other day, or 15 packs free per month...by just playing an hour per day for fun.

    In MTGO they charge you 50+ dollars for 15 packs.

    3. Frankly HS can be played with fun without having to spend a dime, ever, and still getting 15 packs per month...

    4. The RND factor in HS is far less than in Magic: you have 30 cards and after a couple of turns the better players have at least 7 or 8 cards in hands. So you always have access to at least 25-30% of your deck. In Magic that access is around 10-12% and not even speaking about "mana screw" "luck".

     

    tldr: Finally Blizzard focusses again on other games than WOW and they smartly use WOW Lore to get players attention.

    My bet is that Blizzard's Dota version (Heroes of the Storm) will do the exact same: appealing because of all that Lore.

    ---

     

    There is only one negative side that still shows its ugly face: Blizzard takes forever to launch these things (like ... 1 years before the Android version will come ?!?...)

    And Hearthstone should have launched official already....

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sportsfan

    (Hearthstone) will blow MTG on line into pieces.

    Hearthstone will be popular but its CCG -- there's no trading cards

     

    MTG is a TCG and will do fine

  • Jerek_Jerek_ tulsa, OKPosts: 409Member
    One thing I don't understand about this game is why not link it to WoW?  It would be cool if it had a system like the pet battles were you could challenge other players or npcs inside WoW to a hearthstone match.  Curious if anything like this was mentioned at blizzcon, it seems like an obvious thing for them to do.
  • RikitikitaviRikitikitavi Ocala, FLPosts: 1Member

    1. its pay to win

    2. no ability to lay with friends  off your own friends list

    3.best part about tcg games is the ability to break cards in order to break cards to need alot of card around to use to break them because there is only a small amount of cards not alot of fun factor  least for me

    4.  do like the crafting but it is also alot more pay to play

    5. add more quest and ability to earn extra gold if it is pay to win

     

     

     

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