Originally posted by GuyClinch Defiance seems rather unpolished and awful. I can't see how people can but Trion up there. Maybe Rift is good - I wouldn't know. But Defiance? Yeah they took a risk making a game from a TV show - so what? They can't even make a decent chat interface in Defiance.. I know Tera is better then defiance if you want a 'shooter' and I can't imagine Firefall or Planetside is far behind..
The defiance interface was too geared towards console. The game itself is well done and rpetty fun. Firefall, and PS2 are both meh. PS2 is a huge TDM that never ends (no meta game at all) and Firefall is grinding resources non-stop. They can both get boring as hell pretty quick.
You should go play some games...I mean if you intend to comment on a game site, just a suggestion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.
At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.
I lol at this dribble, the bit in yellow can be said about nearly every mmo or dev team on the planet.
But yeah, i would have to go with SOE, Turbine, Blizzard and Trion. If you are talking the most innovated over the last five years then it has to be SnailGames, they have introduced features that have never been seen in any mmo. If they were a western dev team we would be constantly reminded of it.
SOE for me because I've played their games the most. Plus they seem to be the most innovative, they created the MMO template in EQ and made what is considered by many the best sandbox MMO SWG. Going forward EQN/L appears to be innovating in new areas as well.
In terms of putting out polished content quickly.. ArenaNet hands down. I hope to God they are working a nice big expansion as well.
Blizzard can bring out the polished goods but takes a lifetime to do it. They spend so much time "getting it right" that I'm surprised we don't forgot about them.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Yeah but that's what good developers do, they spend ages getting it right. It's why companies like blizzard (excepting d3), valve & cdprojekt are popular.
SOE, really? You've obviously never had to deal with Prosieben, the ones all Europeans get stuck with.
Not to mention how poorly planetside 2 was optimized, do you really think the OMFG patch was made for us? No, it was made because the Playstation 4 would have trouble running the game, and it would cut into profit.
Dragons prophet was downright awful, and while the next iteration of everquest looks promising, i have no doubt in my mind that SOE will find a fantastic way to run it into the ground.
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Blizzard? Man i loved them as a kid, i played all 3 warcraft games, and the diablo 1 and 2, rock and roll racing, and while i didn't like the Starcraft series that was just because I'm not into It's theme, I still respected how great it was as a game.
But then came Diablo 3, ruining everything Diablo 2 stood for, starcraft 2, absolutely ruining the greatness that was Warcraft 3 battle.net with a subpar version of it.
How about selling mounts and server transfers, race changes? In a MMO that already has you buy It's box, followed by a 15$ per month subscription fee, and they add paid services on top of that? Screw that.
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Arenanet turned a fantastic game, guild wars 1 into a mess, from skilled PvP to a giant zergfest, from an insane amount of skill customization to a handful of them, from a unique piece of art to a pile of trash made to appeal to the masses.
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I expect any company that grows bigger is bound to be ruined by greed, that is just the way this world works, a large group of people influenced by making money rather then building a game out of passion, It's a result for disaster.
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My favorite developer right now is probably Re-logic, the creators or Terraria
They released a fantastic game delivering tons of playtime, and then came back after quite some time to nearly double that and to this day are still adding content.
Now that all of my hate is out of the way, i still play games by SOE, blizzard, and occasionally I'll go back to see if guild wars 2 changed at all, they did do some very cool things like Super adventure box that are definitely respectable, but when people are voting for a "best" developer, it blows my mind that Blizzard and SOE even come to mind, Arenanet i can understand, if you really enjoyed guild wars 2, thats fine.
Originally posted by Lienhart ^Blizzard and SoE should be top as this thread has proved. There is a big difference between PUBLISHER and DEVELOPER choices.
Indeed, it shows people have no clue.
Those stating SOE should compare it with a publishing group like EA or Nintendo or ATVI.
I only know one developper who makes games as diverse as Blizzard in RTS, MMO, ARPG and now digital CCG's.
The rest is mostly bound to one sub genre. Bioware is a valid second, but too much hung on story telling adventure like games.
I don't see them making RTS or Card or DOTA games.
It is also quite clear that only now Blizzard can diversify with all those billions stacked into the ATVI publishing group.
I would put Bungie at 3rd position btw. Several games that scored wel in the past and Destiny will be the hit of 2014.
What are your criteria for "best developer" ? You didn't give any.
Mine would be "in time, quality and budget". As no MMO developer ever fullfilled all three (most of them do not even qualify for any of those) there is no "best developer" imo. You may of course choose the best of the bad developers. I leave that to you. But to be honest, MMO deleopment is still in a very sad state looking at it from a software development point of view.
Halo is a very average console shooter. It's only hyped because at the time it was the ONLY console shooter, and was inferior to several pc shooters of the time.
The god awful repetition of corridors for a start.
Halo is a very average console shooter. It's only hyped because at the time it was the ONLY console shooter, and was inferior to several pc shooters of the time.
The god awful repetition of corridors for a start.
Well...it did set the foundations for Modern Warfare.
Though, I'm torn if Bungie or Microsoft were the ones to hate on PC gamers because Bungie attacked K&M users -_-
If your on about vehicles stuff like planetside and battlefield 1942..
If your on about linear, cover based, only 2 guns, people shouting at you which POP up Target to hit next. Well that's been a step backward that's finally led to non games like the most recent cods, games for people that hate games, a movie where you occasionally click shit that your told to.
Surely you knew by writing this topic that it would start a flame war?
Best developer is all relative. Each person will choose the developers based on their favorite games. All this post does is start arguments between people.
For instanced, you list Blizzard in their implementation. I for one know this is very untrue especially when they released 'Diablo 3'. Blizzard did not have sufficient security on their servers which is why Blizzard was hacked and many people had their accounts hacked and items taken, characters deleted and in-game money stolen in return. Notice you don't hear anymore about that? Did you also notice how Blizzard removed the real cash auction house for 'Diablo 3'????? yeah....
Of course it is your opinion that Blizzard does real good implementation. I'm not wanting to start a flame war with you I'm simply pointing out how this topic starts arguments.
Originally posted by goldtoof How did it set these foundations?
If your on about vehicles stuff like planetside and battlefield 1942..
If your on about linear, cover based, only 2 guns, people shouting at you which POP up Target to hit next. Well that's been a step backward that's finally led to non games like the most recent cods, games for people that hate games, a movie where you occasionally click shit that your told to.
I've been playing FPS since Wolfenstein 3D. I only played Halo briefly and absolutely hated it. However, Halo introduced a combination of systems (aka health regen, aim assist and dual weapons) that made the FPS genre console friendly. Prior to halo, we had these amazing 10 weapon loadout systems (Unreal and Doom come in mind), health packs and aim assist was known as aimbot.
They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.
Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.
At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.
And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.
Becouse you like EVE.
You hate WoW so for you its bad game but for millions its awesome game but HEY you like EVE and there wrong EVE is awesome WoW is terible im RIGHT they are wrong:P
I don't play Eve or WoW. I have friends who play both.
I didn't say WoW was bad, I said Blizzard was bad. They have very little understanding of MMOs. Their lead developers were raid guild leaders from EQ that just came to Blizzard and remade EQ. Since then, all they've done is bump up the level cap over and over and keep adding more quests and raids. Because that's what EQ did. They're only adding housing in their 8-9th year. Despite having all of the money, they've added so very little to WoW. Nothing WoW does is ever new.
Eve has expanded and evolved and continues to upgrade its old systems without sacrificing their quality. They push the boundries of what MMOs can do, and they are very hands on with their community.
For instanced, you list Blizzard in their implementation. I for one know this is very untrue especially when they released 'Diablo 3'. Blizzard did not have sufficient security on their servers which is why Blizzard was hacked and many people had their accounts hacked and items taken, characters deleted and in-game money stolen in return. Notice you don't hear anymore about that? Did you also notice how Blizzard removed the real cash auction house for 'Diablo 3'????? yeah....
Really????????????????
Do you know this crap has been going on for years even in the Diablo 2 era?
....Did you also know the weakest link between in security is THE END USER? It's not Blizzard's fault when your password is fuckyou.
Yeah so basicly half was the first step towards fps becoming the dross they are today. (with exceptions that break the cod template like ps2, shadow warrior, SS3, arma etc..)
I really hate cod. Well the older ww2 games were ok, but the modern ones arghh.
Originally posted by Mightyking Best implementer: Trion Worlds. How they handled the launch of Rift was superb, best launch EVA. Even how they have gone ahead to introduce their F2P model really deserves praise from the entire community. Rift has about all the features one can expect from a AAA company, unfortunately they seem to have launched in a saturated market, or when the market got tired of WoW-like MMO's.
Best developer? Certainly not SoE, although I played most of their games. Best developer would be one of the many indie developers, who develop in their spare time, without paychecks, just for the passion they have, and their dreams.
Well put and I agree with you.
SOE takes no risks, they are a HUGE company and if they take a loss in a game
...How do you praise Trion, and then deride SoE for not taking risks? Trion, the game that made the most paint by numbers WoW clone out there?
...That's like saying "I love Michael Bay for Transformers! What was The Rock?"
You must be totally unaware of Turbine's history.
LotRO used to be a sandbox MMO they were developing called Middle Earth Online. 9 months before launch after stringing people along for years, they scrambled, fired and shuffled most of their veteran devs to other projects, and hired a bunch of 20 somethings to turn MEO into a WoW clone. They completely cut themselves off from their community and outright lied to them during the blackouts. "We swear, LotRO LOOKS like we're making it about fighting and instances and quest grinding, but its really a sandbox!"
Until I got into alpha, and we all saw what had happened to MEO.
Turbine is great for what they did with Asheron's Call. Nothing else.
I would say ArenaNet and Blizzard are my favorites. I wouldn't actually say they are the "Best" but they have kept me entertained for thousands of hours. Online gaming is still the cheapest form of entertainment imho!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Comments
The defiance interface was too geared towards console. The game itself is well done and rpetty fun. Firefall, and PS2 are both meh. PS2 is a huge TDM that never ends (no meta game at all) and Firefall is grinding resources non-stop. They can both get boring as hell pretty quick.
You should go play some games...I mean if you intend to comment on a game site, just a suggestion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
TalesWorlds and FromSoftware
for giving more hardcore-ishy gameplay
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Wargaming.net because they pay me to say so.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
I lol at this dribble, the bit in yellow can be said about nearly every mmo or dev team on the planet.
But yeah, i would have to go with SOE, Turbine, Blizzard and Trion. If you are talking the most innovated over the last five years then it has to be SnailGames, they have introduced features that have never been seen in any mmo. If they were a western dev team we would be constantly reminded of it.
I agree. I love DDO and LotRO.
In terms of putting out polished content quickly.. ArenaNet hands down. I hope to God they are working a nice big expansion as well.
Blizzard can bring out the polished goods but takes a lifetime to do it. They spend so much time "getting it right" that I'm surprised we don't forgot about them.
All these answers surprise me a lot.
SOE, really? You've obviously never had to deal with Prosieben, the ones all Europeans get stuck with.
Not to mention how poorly planetside 2 was optimized, do you really think the OMFG patch was made for us? No, it was made because the Playstation 4 would have trouble running the game, and it would cut into profit.
Dragons prophet was downright awful, and while the next iteration of everquest looks promising, i have no doubt in my mind that SOE will find a fantastic way to run it into the ground.
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Blizzard? Man i loved them as a kid, i played all 3 warcraft games, and the diablo 1 and 2, rock and roll racing, and while i didn't like the Starcraft series that was just because I'm not into It's theme, I still respected how great it was as a game.
But then came Diablo 3, ruining everything Diablo 2 stood for, starcraft 2, absolutely ruining the greatness that was Warcraft 3 battle.net with a subpar version of it.
How about selling mounts and server transfers, race changes? In a MMO that already has you buy It's box, followed by a 15$ per month subscription fee, and they add paid services on top of that? Screw that.
-
Arenanet turned a fantastic game, guild wars 1 into a mess, from skilled PvP to a giant zergfest, from an insane amount of skill customization to a handful of them, from a unique piece of art to a pile of trash made to appeal to the masses.
-
I expect any company that grows bigger is bound to be ruined by greed, that is just the way this world works, a large group of people influenced by making money rather then building a game out of passion, It's a result for disaster.
-
My favorite developer right now is probably Re-logic, the creators or Terraria
They released a fantastic game delivering tons of playtime, and then came back after quite some time to nearly double that and to this day are still adding content.
Now that all of my hate is out of the way, i still play games by SOE, blizzard, and occasionally I'll go back to see if guild wars 2 changed at all, they did do some very cool things like Super adventure box that are definitely respectable, but when people are voting for a "best" developer, it blows my mind that Blizzard and SOE even come to mind, Arenanet i can understand, if you really enjoyed guild wars 2, thats fine.
But man.. People have low standards.
Indeed, it shows people have no clue.
Those stating SOE should compare it with a publishing group like EA or Nintendo or ATVI.
I only know one developper who makes games as diverse as Blizzard in RTS, MMO, ARPG and now digital CCG's.
The rest is mostly bound to one sub genre. Bioware is a valid second, but too much hung on story telling adventure like games.
I don't see them making RTS or Card or DOTA games.
It is also quite clear that only now Blizzard can diversify with all those billions stacked into the ATVI publishing group.
I would put Bungie at 3rd position btw. Several games that scored wel in the past and Destiny will be the hit of 2014.
What are your criteria for "best developer" ? You didn't give any.
Mine would be "in time, quality and budget". As no MMO developer ever fullfilled all three (most of them do not even qualify for any of those) there is no "best developer" imo. You may of course choose the best of the bad developers. I leave that to you. But to be honest, MMO deleopment is still in a very sad state looking at it from a software development point of view.
Halo is a very average console shooter. It's only hyped because at the time it was the ONLY console shooter, and was inferior to several pc shooters of the time.
The god awful repetition of corridors for a start.
Well...it did set the foundations for Modern Warfare.
Though, I'm torn if Bungie or Microsoft were the ones to hate on PC gamers because Bungie attacked K&M users -_-
If your on about vehicles stuff like planetside and battlefield 1942..
If your on about linear, cover based, only 2 guns, people shouting at you which POP up Target to hit next. Well that's been a step backward that's finally led to non games like the most recent cods, games for people that hate games, a movie where you occasionally click shit that your told to.
Reply to bcbully the OP,
Surely you knew by writing this topic that it would start a flame war?
Best developer is all relative. Each person will choose the developers based on their favorite games. All this post does is start arguments between people.
For instanced, you list Blizzard in their implementation. I for one know this is very untrue especially when they released 'Diablo 3'. Blizzard did not have sufficient security on their servers which is why Blizzard was hacked and many people had their accounts hacked and items taken, characters deleted and in-game money stolen in return. Notice you don't hear anymore about that? Did you also notice how Blizzard removed the real cash auction house for 'Diablo 3'????? yeah....
Of course it is your opinion that Blizzard does real good implementation. I'm not wanting to start a flame war with you I'm simply pointing out how this topic starts arguments.
I've been playing FPS since Wolfenstein 3D. I only played Halo briefly and absolutely hated it. However, Halo introduced a combination of systems (aka health regen, aim assist and dual weapons) that made the FPS genre console friendly. Prior to halo, we had these amazing 10 weapon loadout systems (Unreal and Doom come in mind), health packs and aim assist was known as aimbot.
Halo is like WoW.
I don't play Eve or WoW. I have friends who play both.
I didn't say WoW was bad, I said Blizzard was bad. They have very little understanding of MMOs. Their lead developers were raid guild leaders from EQ that just came to Blizzard and remade EQ. Since then, all they've done is bump up the level cap over and over and keep adding more quests and raids. Because that's what EQ did. They're only adding housing in their 8-9th year. Despite having all of the money, they've added so very little to WoW. Nothing WoW does is ever new.
Eve has expanded and evolved and continues to upgrade its old systems without sacrificing their quality. They push the boundries of what MMOs can do, and they are very hands on with their community.
Really????????????????
Do you know this crap has been going on for years even in the Diablo 2 era?
....Did you also know the weakest link between in security is THE END USER? It's not Blizzard's fault when your password is fuckyou.
I really hate cod. Well the older ww2 games were ok, but the modern ones arghh.
...How do you praise Trion, and then deride SoE for not taking risks? Trion, the game that made the most paint by numbers WoW clone out there?
Er, nope. I can go through almost every MMO I've played and say "Yup, this game was the first MMO to have this."
I can't do that with WoW.
...That's like saying "I love Michael Bay for Transformers! What was The Rock?"
You must be totally unaware of Turbine's history.
LotRO used to be a sandbox MMO they were developing called Middle Earth Online. 9 months before launch after stringing people along for years, they scrambled, fired and shuffled most of their veteran devs to other projects, and hired a bunch of 20 somethings to turn MEO into a WoW clone. They completely cut themselves off from their community and outright lied to them during the blackouts. "We swear, LotRO LOOKS like we're making it about fighting and instances and quest grinding, but its really a sandbox!"
Until I got into alpha, and we all saw what had happened to MEO.
Turbine is great for what they did with Asheron's Call. Nothing else.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.