Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Helm's Deep NDA lifted...

2

Comments

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    Wow, sad to see Fred banned over speaking his mind. I'm enjoying spending time with him in Rift and his quite amazing test/lua/scripting/logic skills. No doubt whatsoever why his LOTRO title is "The Hotshot".


    I spent a little time in the HD beta but was overall not impressed except with the environment and flavor, which Turbine manages to truly excel at creating. My main is a mini and I'm not sure I'll ever play her again. /sad

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Well this is the one and only game I have ever bought a lifetime account for.  Needless to say I won't ever do that again.  That being said, I have a little over 10K TP to spend since I get some every month from Turbine for having the lifetime.  A couple of clicks and I will have the Riders of Rohan and HD expansions with plenty of TP left over.   I will probably get the expac with my TP, try out the new class changes, then probably log off again until they start talking about another expac next year sometime.  Assuming this game is still around for them to keep adding content.  In my mind , the biggest thing they could do with this game is give it a face lift with new character models (and rigs), textures, and redone animations.  Lotro's characters are just so stiff and lack any sense of weight.  It's as if Turbine's animators paid no mind to the principles of animation.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by reaperuk

    Big Battles are a bit meh. They're really just glorified skirmishes. I was hoping to see large scale battles with dozens of players fighting together such as I've experienced in other games such as GW2 and Defiance but that isn't so. I should have realised the ageing LotRO engine couldn't handle that, so the BIG simply means a big scenario.

    yeah, I suspected that their engine wouldn't be able to handle it. I don't think this has anything to do with it being old, just that it was never meant to run a lot of characters on the screen at once.

    I mean, look at what happened in Moria in some of the hub areas.

    It's a shame that they didn't look forward in the game's design and realize that there were some pretty large battles in the books.

    For me, if it proves to be "lacking", it will be the largest dissapointment in this expansion.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by reaperuk

    Big Battles are a bit meh. They're really just glorified skirmishes. I was hoping to see large scale battles with dozens of players fighting together such as I've experienced in other games such as GW2 and Defiance but that isn't so. I should have realised the ageing LotRO engine couldn't handle that, so the BIG simply means a big scenario.

    yeah, I suspected that their engine wouldn't be able to handle it. I don't think this has anything to do with it being old, just that it was never meant to run a lot of characters on the screen at once.

    I mean, look at what happened in Moria in some of the hub areas.

    It's a shame that they didn't look forward in the game's design and realize that there were some pretty large battles in the books.

    For me, if it proves to be "lacking", it will be the largest dissapointment in this expansion.

    Engines can be improved, espescially over a periode of six years where hardware performanced raised and hardware costs dropped considerely.

     

    newer expansions look for example much better then a lot of the orriginal game.  

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by reaperuk

    Big Battles are a bit meh. They're really just glorified skirmishes. I was hoping to see large scale battles with dozens of players fighting together such as I've experienced in other games such as GW2 and Defiance but that isn't so. I should have realised the ageing LotRO engine couldn't handle that, so the BIG simply means a big scenario.

    yeah, I suspected that their engine wouldn't be able to handle it. I don't think this has anything to do with it being old, just that it was never meant to run a lot of characters on the screen at once.

    I mean, look at what happened in Moria in some of the hub areas.

    It's a shame that they didn't look forward in the game's design and realize that there were some pretty large battles in the books.

    For me, if it proves to be "lacking", it will be the largest dissapointment in this expansion.

    Engines can be improved, espescially over a periode of six years where hardware performanced raised and hardware costs dropped considerely.

     

    newer expansions look for example much better then a lot of the orriginal game.  

    your joking right?  For future reference game engines are not in fact a cost effective avenue for "improvement" past a certain point.   It's actually cheaper/faster to scrap and start over. 

     

    EDIT:

     

    Ask Cryptic or EA/BW how easy it is to "improve" a sub par or dated engine

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    So I did some poking around on the class forums last night. Turbine has had some beta testers create a "revamp" guide for each class. Obviously only people Turbine approved have written the guides. My feelings after reading are:

    Lore-master (my favorite class) - HUGE thumbs down. The magic and beauty of the LM has always been its versatility and power when played in the right hands. It's not an easy class to master, but if you do, then it's always been pretty OP. If you can't, then it's squishy and fairly ineffective compared to most any other class.

    Hunter - I'll give this one a modest and tentative thumbs up. The hunter has always been a fairly one-dimensional class. Trapper has always been a weak line compared to the other two and it still looks that way. The Red line looks like it's doing what it has always done - blow stuff up fast at the cost of mobility. The Blue line looks like it's the real class improvement as it provides a kiting playstyle, something hunters have requested for years now. The problem that could gut this who thing is hunter dps is usually nerfed after an update and it makes them ineffective because their CC sucks. Speaking of which, their CC appears to have been nerfed in this revamp so their dps is even more crucial.

    Minstrel - I don't know what to think. I didn't like Orion's revamp of the Mini. I'm not sure I like this either. The dps line looks squishier than previous and the healing line is straight heals. There are a lot of skills removed with this revamp. I don't have a lot of confidence that the mini will be restored to its former cry piercing warspeech wielding badness.

    So, not really sure what to think. The responses I got were tepid requests to "give it a try first" - the Turbine beta tester's age old mantra that means:  It's nowhere near as good as it should be, but this is the only Middle-earth we've got so try and find a way to like it. I'm now so glad I returned to EQ2 to play the ToV update.

    I do have at least 2 of every class, but those three are the only I've played to 65+. I did check the RK forum where I didn't see a lot of feedback either direction, but the class doesn't play anything like it used to based on the revamp guide description.

    Hope that helps some.

  • IMBanksIMBanks Silver Spring, MDPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by Lithuanian

    Very, very mixed feelings.

    Class revamp: well, lots of skills does not mean lots of fun. Sometimes less is more.

    Trees: the problem number one. As from forum, player is penalized for using more than 1 tree (i.e. 1 point for first tree, 2 points fors second/third).

    Big Battles: I am afraid, game may go in the same awkward direction like Angmar went: forced fellowships whenever you go. And I do not believe in "players can solo it", haven't seen instance that 1 player could beat solo. Conception about commanding your own little army - it frightens me. Sometimes it is hard to fight solo, and now I should be able to fight  and/or to care about each given soldier.  We have such pain in "escort lame NPC" missions, when you have to nurse NPC.

    However, they are revamping crafting: removing tin, which was a headache. Tin would be purchasable from vendors (think about coal). It allows money sink and may help new players.

    Judging from forums, many players are dissatisfied with revamp, especially Ministrels (as far as I understood). I still am not sure what will happen to my poor Champion. Will he become more powerfull, say, AoE machine?

    In short: I am a bit afraid of the changes. Skill trees are tricky thing and the only hope is that Turbine found some genius-worth solution...

    All I know is they destroyed my Main, the Warden.  I may purchase the cheapest version of the expansion and check it out, but I think my journey in Middle Earth may be ending.  Drats, really wanted to get to Mordor.

     

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IMBanks
    Originally posted by Lithuanian

    Very, very mixed feelings.

    Class revamp: well, lots of skills does not mean lots of fun. Sometimes less is more.

    Trees: the problem number one. As from forum, player is penalized for using more than 1 tree (i.e. 1 point for first tree, 2 points fors second/third).

    Big Battles: I am afraid, game may go in the same awkward direction like Angmar went: forced fellowships whenever you go. And I do not believe in "players can solo it", haven't seen instance that 1 player could beat solo. Conception about commanding your own little army - it frightens me. Sometimes it is hard to fight solo, and now I should be able to fight  and/or to care about each given soldier.  We have such pain in "escort lame NPC" missions, when you have to nurse NPC.

    However, they are revamping crafting: removing tin, which was a headache. Tin would be purchasable from vendors (think about coal). It allows money sink and may help new players.

    Judging from forums, many players are dissatisfied with revamp, especially Ministrels (as far as I understood). I still am not sure what will happen to my poor Champion. Will he become more powerfull, say, AoE machine?

    In short: I am a bit afraid of the changes. Skill trees are tricky thing and the only hope is that Turbine found some genius-worth solution...

    All I know is they destroyed my Main, the Warden.  I may purchase the cheapest version of the expansion and check it out, but I think my journey in Middle Earth may be ending.  Drats, really wanted to get to Mordor.

     

    Yea from what I've seen in Bullroarer the ward caught the worst of it, but you guys should be used to it by now; they've been screwing with you fellas as long as I can remember:D  I'm ashamed to admit that I was always secretly glad they were derping around with ya'll instead of breaking my guard again.  The one time at the start of Moria was more than enough for me.  I always watched your  board in something like awed horror.

     

    I was ALWAYS happy gral ignored us.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BMBender

    Yea from what I've seen in Bullroarer the ward caught the worst of it, but you guys should be used to it by now; they've been screwing with you fellas as long as I can remember:D  I'm ashamed to admit that I was always secretly glad they were derping around with ya'll instead of breaking my guard again.  The one time at the start of Moria was more than enough for me.  I always watched your  board in something like awed horror.

    I was ALWAYS happy gral ignored us.

    graalx2 was one of the better developers they ever had. I bumped into him on the forums of a game I tested not long ago. He's graalx3 now though :p

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trancejeremy

    And overall it doesn't sound good.

    Consensus seems to be that the Big Battles is boring and repetitive, the class system revision is nothing short of a disaster, but OTOH, the landscape and quests are really well done.

    So you are the one who got banned and now on a crusade to spread disinformation. GG.

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by Filbur
    Depends on who you ask. I read a lot of positive things about the changes and the big battles. It's true that some people are not happy with the new direction and the classes that they played for over six years. But that was to be expected.

    My thoughts on the revamps.  The existing 6 yr old consumer base was content with classes more or less as they were.  There was no demand from the base for revamps that WB/Turbine was responding too.  That leads me to the conclusion that the revamps served one of two purposes.  Entice a completely new/different customer base into an almost 7 yr old game(good luck with that) or to lower dev overhead in content design/balance in prep for maintenance mode.

     

    /shrugs, guess we'll see in a few weeks

    EDIT:

    As far as BBattles that's just skirmish 3.0 from what I can see, some will like some won't.

    I can't even begin to start pointing out the bad logic.

    A. Most current games have a "feat" or "skill tree" to enhance their character. IT is a stepping stone for creating even more diverse character builds.

    B. Players for over 7 years have been complaining about the slow and paint drying combat animations, it is nice to see a revamp, regardless the outcome.

    C. Making "conclusions" is nothing more then erroneous opinion that has not facts or supportting arguments.

    D. We will see, in a few weeks, and regardless the outcome, it is what it is.

    I wish I had all day to reply to all this bad logic in this posts , but I will have to pick and choose what to reply too lol...

     

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member
    Been playing this game since release and although I,m not sure what to expect when HD comes out I will continue to play.No other game has held my attention has long as this game as.M y main char is a minstrel but I have a GRD and WDN as well..all lvl 85 atm.Personally I,m glad of the changes.The animations definitely needed upgraded has did the classes.They were getting borining to say the least.Even though I have a lifetime sub I decided to front up money for this expansion rather than use points.People may think I,m silly sitting on nearly 9k turbine points but I wanted to contribute to the game this time seen has I never paid a cent for Rohan.
  • maxima29maxima29 iowa, IAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by Filbur
    Depends on who you ask. I read a lot of positive things about the changes and the big battles. It's true that some people are not happy with the new direction and the classes that they played for over six years. But that was to be expected.

    My thoughts on the revamps.  The existing 6 yr old consumer base was content with classes more or less as they were.  There was no demand from the base for revamps that WB/Turbine was responding too.  That leads me to the conclusion that the revamps served one of two purposes.  Entice a completely new/different customer base into an almost 7 yr old game(good luck with that) or to lower dev overhead in content design/balance in prep for maintenance mode.

     

    /shrugs, guess we'll see in a few weeks

    EDIT:

    As far as BBattles that's just skirmish 3.0 from what I can see, some will like some won't.

    I can't even begin to start pointing out the bad logic.

    A. Most current games have a "feat" or "skill tree" to enhance their character. IT is a stepping stone for creating even more diverse character builds.

    B. Players for over 7 years have been complaining about the slow and paint drying combat animations, it is nice to see a revamp, regardless the outcome.

    C. Making "conclusions" is nothing more then erroneous opinion that has not facts or supportting arguments.

    D. We will see, in a few weeks, and regardless the outcome, it is what it is.

    I wish I had all day to reply to all this bad logic in this posts , but I will have to pick and choose what to reply too lol...

     

     

    I always shake my head at posters like this also . It's clear he has no clue what he is talking about.  Maintenance mode?  Yeah ok keep telling yourself that.  You should have left your edit out cause they are clearly not skirmishes 3.0 and if they were well usually when you have something upgrade it's number it better and improved so either way they are a good thing. If you were in beta or even payed attention you would know a lot of people were impressed with the big battles.  They are big, challenging, and a lot of fun.  

    I wish poster that post misinformation on any game would go into maintenance mode. 

     

     

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi
    Originally posted by BMBender
     

    EDIT:

    As far as BBattles that's just skirmish 3.0 from what I can see, some will like some won't.

    I can't even begin to start pointing out the bad logic.

    A. Most current games have a "feat" or "skill tree" to enhance their character. IT is a stepping stone for creating even more diverse character builds.

    B. Players for over 7 years have been complaining about the slow and paint drying combat animations, it is nice to see a revamp, regardless the outcome.

    C. Making "conclusions" is nothing more then erroneous opinion that has not facts or supportting arguments.

    D. We will see, in a few weeks, and regardless the outcome, it is what it is.

    I wish I had all day to reply to all this bad logic in this posts , but I will have to pick and choose what to reply too lol...

     

    A. yup they do and guess what, they are all contracting in player base as well

    B this does nothing to speed up combat on the chars I tested, just fewer key presses 12 12 12  13 43

    C beta 1-6

    D yup

    image
  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maxima29

     

     

    I always shake my head at posters like this also . It's clear he has no clue what he is talking about.  Maintenance mode?  Yeah ok keep telling yourself that.  You should have left your edit out cause they are clearly not skirmishes 3.0 and if they were well usually when you have something upgrade it's number it better and improved so either way they are a good thing. If you were in beta or even payed attention you would know a lot of people were impressed with the big battles.  They are big, challenging, and a lot of fun.  

    I wish poster that post misinformation on any game would go into maintenance mode. 

     

    image
  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by maxima29

     

     

    I always shake my head at posters like this also . It's clear he has no clue what he is talking about.  Maintenance mode?  Yeah ok keep telling yourself that.  You should have left your edit out cause they are clearly not skirmishes 3.0 and if they were well usually when you have something upgrade it's number it better and improved so either way they are a good thing. If you were in beta or even payed attention you would know a lot of people were impressed with the big battles.  They are big, challenging, and a lot of fun.  

    I wish poster that post misinformation on any game would go into maintenance mode. 

     

    Scripting on this site is wonky again, sorry for the dbl post

    Posted exactly what I saw in beta, don't agree? put up a counter point and back it up otherwise /shrugs

     

    EDIT would you have preferred if I had said. a relatively scripted fight where most of ones time is spent clicking ladders, hooks NPC's ect?  Or a poor mans RTS?  Or that some maps/battles can be afk'd without loss or death?(admittedly the rewards suck that way)

    I was actually being nice, an  updated skirmish system would have been an improvement imho.

    image
  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,722Member Uncommon

    While not tight-knitted to the NDA lifting, it worths noting that Turbine shared the score of HD. It's really good, a bit weaker than the previous ones (imo of course, music is always subjective), maybe because of the composer change.

    When I first saw the track title Mighty Chance I was a bit clueless, he was always a modest fella... but then they said it's not his work. Probably it's a hommage to Thomas  -  wait... or maybe it's just a track about chances :)

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon

    Can't even believe I used to post like these people. So erroneous and lacking any specific detail.

    Be specific, bring the facts to support these opinions.


    For the most part, I can see that because like every other game about to release an expansion or update, the woodwork starts to crawl with the jaded.


    I'll be he reading , waiting for something to posted of substance.


    Oh, can you guys post your warsteed pictures ? I'm curious how yours look ! :D

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    All that matters to me is how I feel about it.

    Big Battles sound fine. The problem is that, like nearly every other system Turbine introduces, they let it languish after introduction and introduce something new they can monetize that is disconnected from their other systems.

    Hobbies - so much potential yet it was left to atrophe.

    LIs - this got more attention, but still sort of patched and finally after 2 years called "baked".

    Skirms - this was going to be huge, yet the number of skirms added since introduction has been so very few and far between. The amount of pointless churn to accomplish something through this system is incredible. Big battles will end up the same way. Another currency and achievement system that is totally disconnected from any other game system or reward path.

    Turbine has a great world building team. The environments are beautiful and the sound is nice. While the character models and animations are poor, they wouldn't really be a deal breaker, but... The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.

    When you look at it outside the view of someone who will play in Middle-earth no matter what, you see a game dev studio that has consistently under delivered, historically over promised, and been less than forthcoming with their marketing claims.

    So to put that into light, as someone who was there from beta (blah blah blah), my lore-master isn't the same. Turbine has shutdown the epic line outside of xpac purchases. I have very little confidence in Turbine, based on years of experience with just giving them a chance and "trying it out first", that they will deliver an experience worth taking my time to invest in. When I compare my game experience in LotRO to EQ2 it is like night to day.

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon

     


    Originally posted by Torvaldr The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.
    I'm curious if yuou

     

    can give an exact example of what you are talking about instead of erroneous paragraph that doesn't have a single supportive argument other then your own opinion...

    I've seen this to often with many games , where it is a wall of yext of nothing but fallacies and unsupported claims.

    The game is the cohesiveness, it is "LORD OF THE RINGS"...LOL for real,

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

     


    Originally posted by Torvaldr The entire game itself feels disjointed. Turbine's design problem is that they haven't made a cohesive entity. The game feels like it doesn't have a central driving design force. On top of that how the Paiz couple have chosen to monetize the game and influence design in light of that is simply sickening. I really do blame them heavily for the current state of the game.
    I'm curious if yuou

    can give an exact example of what you are talking about instead of erroneous paragraph that doesn't have a single supportive argument other then your own opinion...

    I've seen this to often with many games , where it is a wall of yext of nothing but fallacies and unsupported claims.

    The game is the cohesiveness, it is "LORD OF THE RINGS"...LOL for real,

    Look I don't really care what you think. Like I said, the only thing that matters to me is how I feel about the class and epic changes. My post is for people who actually want to have a discussion not whiteknights who think they're proving a point that no one else really cares about.

    I will say this to clarify. The design pattern, flow, and approach between each major expansion isn't very cohesive. Each expansion region is mostly well designed, but when put together as a whole their play and feel don't flow well. You have one style of content approach in SoA, another in Moria, another in RoR, etc. That is all.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon
    will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

    It's a complete game change. Combat revamps have historically always been part of the entire game update.

    The Epic on the other hand is tied to the xpac this time.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    will the new skill system be a general update or only people who own Helms Deep will see the new skill system? The classes and their skills is the only reason i cant play Lotro. I would like to try the new skill system but im not purchasing an expansion just to try that out.

    It's a complete game change. Combat revamps have historically always been part of the entire game update.

    The Epic on the other hand is tied to the xpac this time.

    im very interested in that combat revamp. This could be what makes me play Lotro.

    image
  • LithuanianLithuanian vilniusPosts: 206Member Uncommon

    When I start to think about Trait Trees (TT) - I understand that I am totally lost. They are over-complicated and no clear explanation given.

    Example: I have 8 trait slots and only 3 are unlocked. What if I unlock rest 5 for ~500 Turbine points before Helm's Deep? Will I get some points for such thing? Anything? Somebody told me I would get "slots, but not points". What could that mean? What slots, if I would be given 1 tree for free (I'm f2p). What about virtues of different values, like Courage 1 and Discipilne 15 - will these be equal in TT system?

    Is there any sense in, say,  purchasing Legendary/class trait slots (especially when they are on discount)? Or it would be just a waste of valuable TPs?

    What about housing chests? They told players could upgrade for big amounts of gold and later - for Mithril coins only. But I have a house, so how could I upgrade or just would have to re-purchase? Would housing maintenance prices change?

    More questions that answers and no clear answers in the official forums :(

2
Sign In or Register to comment.