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Who do you think is the BEST developer?

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  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    CCP.

     

    They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

     

    Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

    At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

    And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

    You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

    I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

    They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

    You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

    Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

    Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

    And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

    Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

    WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

    It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

     

     

    I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

    Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

    Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

    It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

    WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

    And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

    Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
     

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    Lol that reminds me,  The chat room in EQ's login....spent a lot of time in that thing.

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
     

    Sorry, guess you just don't understand how market trends work or how game design works.

    I said WoW was solidly average. Bad in some areas (raids, classes, dungeons) but solidly average is all you need if your brand name is synomous with MMO.

    Your posts always have such high comedic value because unlike some of the other more opinionated people who get confused once in a while, you legitimately don't seem to understand the concept of opinion vrs fact. You actually seem to believe that if you say it, it must be true because....you said it.

    Like in your post above where you list off that it has bad raids, classes etc etc. You really believe that is just a fact in the gaming industry and not just your opinion of it's features correct ?

    So while no one will ever "win" an argument with he who can have the last word, you'll never be anything more than a good laugh along the way because you can't take someone with that type of attitude seriously in any kind of discussion.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    CCP.

     

    They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

     

    Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

    At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

    And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

    You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

    I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

    They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

    You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

    Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

    Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

    And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

    Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

    WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

    It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

     

     

    I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

    Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

    Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

    It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

    WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

    And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

    Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

     The next mmo adventure after horizon for me was star wars galaxies. I am pretty sure star wars galaxies had a huge budget with lucas arts being involved and all, so money does not always equal quality. Give the developers some credit. Look at swtor, that game had a huge budget but it was a complete mess. *cough* illum*cough*

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon

    Firaxis

     

    They make XCOM and the Civilization games.  Those games are pretty damn awesome.

     

    Used to be Bioware.....  Used to be, and that is all about that.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    MMORPGs:

     

    Arenanet and Blizzard.  What gets overlooked with Blizzard is that they communicate non stop with the players.  People may not agree with a change, but the reason is always given for it.  they are much more upfront about things than most devs, thats for certain.

    Of the AAA developers, they may be the only two firmly on the good side.  SoE is probably the best of the rest followed by Trion, but at this point it becomes who sucks the least.

     

    note: CCP excluded from this because EvE has zero appeal to me so I don't know enugh about CCP

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
     

    Sorry, guess you just don't understand how market trends work or how game design works.

    I said WoW was solidly average. Bad in some areas (raids, classes, dungeons) but solidly average is all you need if your brand name is synomous with MMO.

    Your posts always have such high comedic value because unlike some of the other more opinionated people who get confused once in a while, you legitimately don't seem to understand the concept of opinion vrs fact. You actually seem to believe that if you say it, it must be true because....you said it.

    Like in your post above where you list off that it has bad raids, classes etc etc. You really believe that is just a fact in the gaming industry and not just your opinion of it's features correct ?

    So while no one will ever "win" an argument with he who can have the last word, you'll never be anything more than a good laugh along the way because you can't take someone with that type of attitude seriously in any kind of discussion.

     To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

     The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

     I'd like to see Blizzard aim for more classes and adding more content that truly feels like Warcraft. I don't like the fact that Horde and Alliance now fight side by side. I envisioned a game with a lot of open PvP across the world and from what I've seen with this next expansion it looks as though they're on the right track.

     Until Blizzard starts to rethink the overall progression for World of Warcraft I'd doubt I'll be willing to get back into it. World of Wacraft is a solid game with several good aspects. But once again they need to rethink their course of action otherwise even the casual crowd will leave.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon

    I forgot about Runic. I think that group is awesome.

    Torchlight 2 is a great game at a great price. Not only do they offer the game, updates, and servers, for $20 they also include the modding tool as well. Great stuff.

     

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I forgot about Runic. I think that group is awesome.

    Torchlight 2 is a great game at a great price. Not only do they offer the game, updates, and servers, for $20 they also include the modding tool as well. Great stuff.

     

     I felt that Torchlight 1 was a much better product. The only thing that I believe was missing for the original was the multiplayer. If only they added muliplayer and a dedicated leader board like Diablo 2 and PoE I'd say that Torchlight was a flawless game.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    CCP.

     

    They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

     

    Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

    At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

    And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

    You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

    I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

    They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

    You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

    Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

    Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

    And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

    Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

    WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

    It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

     

     

    I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

    Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

    Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

    It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

    WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

    And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

    Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

     The next mmo adventure after horizon for me was star wars galaxies. I am pretty sure star wars galaxies had a huge budget with lucas arts being involved and all, so money does not always equal quality. Give the developers some credit. Look at swtor, that game had a huge budget but it was a complete mess. *cough* illum*cough*

    SWG had a modest budget compared to WoW. MMOs weren't quite "proven" yet, and most of the funding came from Verant Interactive. Sony certainly wasn't going to drop bank on it.

    But you're right about SWOTOR, mostly.

  • Riposte.ThisRiposte.This Toronto, ONPosts: 192Member
    Riot

    Killing dragons is my shit

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    ...

    I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

    Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

    Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

    It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    I remember Horizons' load time being the main reason I didn't stick with it. :) 

    You're spot on that WOW changed the industry standards of how an MMO should be polished. Every aspect of gameplay was improved from the technical aspect of lowered system requirements and smooth, responsive play to all the little quality of life things that we take for granted, like seeing the comparison window of gear you are wearing when hovering over items on vendors. Although AC2 came out with the UI format we are all familiar with, WOW popularized it and made it the default for the majority of MMOs that came after it. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
     

     To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

     The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

     

    You could say you hated everything about wow and thought it was a terrible game and I'd respect that and discuss it's finer or weaker points because you've expressed your opinion on the game as it relates to you. I'd totally disagree  ;) but your opinion is your opinion.

    People become a joke when they confuse that and pretend like it's a fact that the game had bad features. Good and bad features are totally subjective. If you hate it and someone else loves it...it's not a fact, that it's bad, it's an opinion.

    People do it because they don't think their own opinion carries enough weight and by twisting it into a " fact" that " many people " believe, it somehow becomes more credible.....it doesn't.

     

  • goldtoofgoldtoof leedsPosts: 337Member
    Actually thinking about it, because I thought you were on about current devs, all them British devs circa 1990 like sensible, bitmap brothers, bullfrog, psygnosis, dma design, gremlin, lamasoft etc.. something about Britain then, very creative in music, books, and games.

    Also the French had a good gaming industry then with the likes of delphine
  • goldtoofgoldtoof leedsPosts: 337Member
    I don't get the wow hate, wow itself is a very good at what it does a 90% themepark, 90% pve mmo.

    It's not wow fault all these poor imitations of it have flooded the mmo market since.
  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Mesa, AZPosts: 1,090Member
    Blizzard and CCP.  The Yin and Yang of MMOs.  Nobody else should even enter into the conversation.  
  • modusmodus Unknown, ONPosts: 55Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Skooma2

    Since there was no criteria as to whether we are talking MMO or SP (although I know this is an MMO site), I would answer: 

     

    Bethesda.  Why?:  Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim.

    QED

    Since there was no criteria at all ... I pick me! Food product developer category!

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Use your own criteria. Justify your answer. 

     

    Right now today SOE gets my vote. They are of the developers most inclined to take risks, they have the most impressive engine (What can be down in Planetside 2 is amazing), and they are one of the most competent when it comes to implementing there ideas (weather you like the changes or not.)

     

    I would consider Blizzard the most polished and most competent when it comes to system implementation. They are so risk adverse they lose a lot of points imo.

     

    By far and wide SnailGames is the most creative, most inclined to take risks developer. They have issues with taking care of things like gold seller spam though. I have been impressed when new systems are implemented they work fresh out the box aswell. They implement far more systems than other games too. They lose points for not being able to solve the spam and they time it took to break bots. 

     

    What are your thoughts? Who's the BEST?


    About soe your answer is purely based on HYPED GAME its not even close to a honest objective opinion that soe is best.

    A year ago or even early almost all of you guys condemmed soe now you suddenle embrace it with passion your all so predictable lol

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
     

     To be fair, WoW has had some really bad raids such as loot ship. Oh that was a laughable piece of content right there. I can't say that they have only bad raids, because they do actually try to do some unique things with some of the more major fights. But that's not to say other companies don't have worse raid fights, FFXIV: ARR Binding Coils of Bahamut - Turn 3 anyone?

     The classes in WoW aren't bad as they're the typical class I'd find in an RPG, but they do tend to change them greatly between each expansion making it more or less of a hassle to have to recreate the character you love to play. However, some people might find the major class changes refreshing.

     

    You could say you hated everything about wow and thought it was a terrible game and I'd respect that and discuss it's finer or weaker points because you've expressed your opinion on the game as it relates to you. I'd totally disagree  ;) but your opinion is your opinion.

    People become a joke when they confuse that and pretend like it's a fact that the game had bad features. Good and bad features are totally subjective. If you hate it and someone else loves it...it's not a fact, that it's bad, it's an opinion.

    People do it because they don't think their own opinion carries enough weight and by twisting it into a " fact" that " many people " believe, it somehow becomes more credible.....it doesn't.

     

     But Damon... I am the law! My word is absolute D:

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    For mmo's and competance.

    Turbine
    Blizzard
    Trion (even if I didn't like Rift)


    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • Yyrkoon_PoMYyrkoon_PoM Reseda, CAPosts: 150Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

    CCP.

     

    They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

     

    Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

    At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

    And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.

    You might not like blizzards games but saying they are laughable just makes you out to be a bitter hater. I am not a huge fan of their games but i can accept that their games are developed to a very high standard of quality that most other companies can't get near.

    I'm not denying that their games are polished and that their marketing is masterful. But the actual design of the game, and what they've done with WoW is laughably bad. Its got the most budget and devs of any MMO in history and they're only JUST adding housing. Their PvP and crafting are still terrible, there are no variety in their dungeons.

    They've done nothing but sit on WoW, really.

    You don't find it a tad bit arrogant to sit on a forum telling the most commercially successful game ever made they could of done it better ? And what they have done is....laughably bad.

    Do you make a billion dollars a year on your ideas ?

    Nope, and neither does WoW make money off their ideas. Because they don't have their own ideas. WoW is a reskinned hollowed out EverQuest.

    And yes, I feel more than qualified to "sit here" and point out why WoW has terrible design.

    Does WoW have the best raid system? No. Does it have the best PvP? No. Does it have the best crafting? No. Does it have the best housing? No. Does it have the best classes? No.

    WoW was a solidly average game with a lot of good polish. But the biggest factor to its success was brand name. People seem to forget that it was the first big budget MMO based on a popular IP by a company that was insanely popular with all kinds of gamers. A company that spent a year before WoW's launch advertising in every website and magazine, and on Battle.net.

    It was the first MMO to get its name in the mainstream, so now when people hear MMO they think WoW. That fact alone gets WoW more players and money than the quality of their game.

     

     

    I guess it depends on what you value. Do you value a company's ability to make money, even if it screws its players (Diablo 3) and polish their very simple game that does nothing new? Or do you value daring, innovation, and quality?

    Wow was average in comparison to what mmo?

    Most of the ones that came before it. It didn't do anything new at the time it came out. The only real difference was that it had good animations and ran on lower end machines. But feature wise, it was (and still is, amazingly) far far behind games like Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, ect.

    It's raids and PvP were a shit load worse than DAoC. It's storyline and events were and dungeons were way worse than Asheron's Call and EverQuest. It's crafting was way worse than SWG and UO. It's level of depth and freedom was far far FAR under UO. Everything that WoW did had already been done by EverQuest and DAoC,  usually in a better way.

    To be honest older mmo's ran like shit and most of them were buggy messes. Blizzard changed the industry standards of how an mmo should be polished. That is good development regardless if you like the games features are not. Old mmo's used take ages to load up, wow was on your screen in seconds. My first mmo was horizons and it took about 10 minutes to render the game world.

    Here's the thing. The ability to polish a game is less a function of the quality of developers and more a function of the budget.

    WoW was the first MMO being made by a veteran game company with shit loads of money. Of COURSE it was going to release polished.

    And no, you're wrong about all MMOs being buggy messes before WoW. The only MMO I played that I would call "a buggy mess" was Star Wars Galaxies on launch day. In the 7 years I played DAoC, the only bug I ever ran into was getting stuck inside a tent. Once. One time.

    Though Horizons WAS notoriously known for being a bad game, so I understand your bias.

     The next mmo adventure after horizon for me was star wars galaxies. I am pretty sure star wars galaxies had a huge budget with lucas arts being involved and all, so money does not always equal quality. Give the developers some credit. Look at swtor, that game had a huge budget but it was a complete mess. *cough* illum*cough*

    SWG had a modest budget compared to WoW. MMOs weren't quite "proven" yet, and most of the funding came from Verant Interactive. Sony certainly wasn't going to drop bank on it.

    But you're right about SWOTOR, mostly.

    Verant Interactive is a long and complicated story .... let's just say it was a fully owned and subsidised studio of Sony. Sony Interactive Studios America became 989 Studios which split into Verant Interactive  which was "bought" by Sony Online Entertainment ... there might be a name or two between 989 and Verant (Red Eye was one) but it was always Sony in a complicated tax shelter kind of way.

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon

    That´s an easy question!

    ARENANET, no doubt about it.

    They did an AMAZING job in Guild Wars,i mean.,...amazing job. New ideas & new ways to play a MMO....and even though i´m not as happy as i wish i was with the kind of content they are delivering in GW2...they have shown what they are capable of doing. I still have tons of faith in them.

    TRION is my other candidate. GREAT developers,they delivered good in RIFT,wich is not easy,and took amazing risks with DEFIANCE....making a game attached to a TV show...with it´s pros and cons....but is always refreshing to see developers taking such good moves to the unknonw!

    +Plus, as previously Mightyking said:
    "Best implementer: Trion Worlds. How they handled the launch of Rift was superb, best launch EVA. "

    I was really surprised with RIFT´s launch....it was simply PERFECT like no other developer has ever acomplished.

     

    Blizzard is good at making games....BUT...for FFS where the hell does all they money the earn go??

    Not back to their games.... that´s for sure. Shame ¬¬

     

    Time ago i would of have included BIOWARE in my top list....but sadly that was long time ago....

    i cannot forgive them for SWTOR or Dragon Age 2..... srry :(

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    CCP.

     

    They're the only MMO company that has managed to grow year after year, and learn from their mistakes.

     

    Blizzard is laughably bad. They never come up with any ideas on their own, just snip ideas from other games and make them casual and usually worse.

    At its core, WoW is a disaster, from a design standpoint.

    And all other companies I used to admire got too big for their britches and ruined their own games and communities. Turbine, Mythic, Verant, all fucking awful. But CCP has managed to stay level.


    Becouse you like EVE.

    You hate WoW so for you its bad game but for millions its awesome game but HEY you like EVE and there wrong EVE is awesome WoW is terible im RIGHT they are wrong:P

    I dont like EVE or WoW equally i think there both terible games but i understand others like it and im glad they have fun with it and wish them good luck and long life with there beloved games.

    But you like EVE thats obvious rest is bad you good right:P

    Real honest answer, sorry i can't give if i say a developer is awesome there will always be some setiment to it and i prolly played it and i like, so again i can't give a honest objective opinion on which developer is best.

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  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Classicstar
    so again i can't give a honest objective opinion on which developer is best.

    Might meter attitude toward a given set of devs, but not otherwise useful.

    And all it takes is an NGE (or similar decision one does not happen to agree with) to turn The Best into The Worst.

  • Scott23Scott23 Moline, ILPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by Classicstar
    so again i can't give a honest objective opinion on which developer is best.

    Might meter attitude toward a given set of devs, but not otherwise useful.

    And all it takes is an NGE (or similar decision one does not happen to agree with) to turn The Best into The Worst.

    So true.  But don't worry, when the game is cancelled it becomes the greatest thing ever :)

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