I would start by playing The Secret World. Probably the most immersive solo game out there and it is a completely different setting than WoW. I'm going to guess if you play a WoW clone like Rift or even just a game in the same setting as WoW you are going to get turned off because of WoW burnout from playing it so long.
Altough i loved GW2 at release, for some reason after reaching 80 i just quited and cant stand it anymore Each class feels the same button mashing potato. Then again i played over 1000 hours of WvW so i got my money out of it easy
I made the same statement and I received the cyber tar and feather treatment here. But, I totally agree with you. I don't know what it is, but all classes feel the same to me.
To build off of that, many players (especially the ones that have logged over 1000 hours of GW2, or WOW type games) carry that fatigue to other games that work off the same paradigm.
THIS is the reason so many of the games that have been released after WOW have "failed". Games like Rift, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars the Old Republic are amazing games....and would likely have similar success WOW had, IF people hadn't already played a very similar type of game for 3-5 years already.
It doesn't matter if you are playing WOW, Rift, Warhammer, Guild Wars 2, or the new Star Wars MMO.....when you boil it down, you're still running the same kill / delivery quest, for the 500th time. You're still killing something, in some dungeon, for some piece of armor / weapon, that does nothing more than prepare you for the next higher difficulty dungeon.
The typical use case is this:
Joe plays World of Warcraft for 4 years and has grown tired of the novelty of this new "themepark" type of MMO and is desperate for something that gave him the same feeling he had when starting WOW.
Rift / Warhammer / Aion / GW2 / SWTOR releases, with some slightly different gimmick (dynamic raids, public raids, wings, Star Wars IP).....Joe gets in first day, and gets *some* of that old feeling back.
After playing a few weeks, or a few months, Joe sees through the facade and realized they are doing the same thing in this new game that he's done in WOW for the last 4 years and has to make a decision. Do I start all over again, doing the same stuff in a different game (getting back to max level, making new friends, get back on the gear treadmill, make money).....or just go back to WOW, where I've already planted those seeds?
Joe goes back to WOW and trudges on, further increasing burnout.
Joe repeats this process for the next big AAA MMO title released, but finds it takes him less time to arrive to the same conclusion (this is the same dog & pony show)
Rince & Repeat....with each burnout period getting shorter & shorter....until Joe quits all the new games & WOW all together.
Quit WOW and then proceed to play more games that are like WOW.... truth is that it is hard to escape WOW and its influence on the genre.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Well you're out of luck because virtually every AAA MMORPG of the last 9 years has been a straight carbon copy WoW clone, with LotRO and Rift being some of the worst offenders.
The MMO genre has more or less been dead for a decade. GW2 is the only none WoWy themepark I've found.
Chief complaint as I see it ( pretty convoluted post) Is that when playing WoW, the OP tends to get hung up in combat stats and health bars and reptitive spammning of combos, to the point where he isn't really playing the game, he is just looking at bars and stats, etc.
Sounds like basic WoW gameplay.
So he is looking to get away from WoW gameplay. However, isn't the consensus on this site that the vast majority of games out since WoW are merely copies of that gameplay?? And yet you have people here, suggesting that he play those very games? Had enough of WoW? Well what you want my friend is the new improved WoW 2!
Seriously I was thinking of suggesting Puzzle Pirates or something!!
But no, try Rift, Swotor , GW2, Tera, Aion , yada yada .......
No cooldowns or healthbars in those games!!
As of now, I have nothing but respect for you since you, sir, seem to have thoroughly read my post and drew a very simple and accurate conclusion from it. So thank you for that.
Aside from that, would I be a dull person if I fail to sense a hint of ridicule in your choice of words? =P
Originally posted by Boneserino Waiting for someone to state the obvious here......
That he needs to find a sandbox type MMO, where there are other roles, in a symbotic community, outside of the fighter / adventurer?
What comes to mind is how Ultima Online used to be. If expert timing on your skill / spell rotation isn't your thing, you could make just as good of a "living" in the game as a full time trader / merchant (Blacksmith, Carpenter, Alchemist, Tailor, Miner, Chef, Fisherman, Cartographer, Animal Tamer, Bard, Tinkerer, etc.)
No, the crafting profession in UO was not like WOW. Crafting / Merchant professions were full time professions that supplied the combat players in the game with gear, that was only marginally less effective than the limited magic items available in the game. Given UO was a full loot game, players constantly needed to replenish their equipment...creating a market demand for said crafting / trade professions.
Unfortunately, I don't think a good replacement for the old UO is here *yet*. I know there have been a bunch of indie sandbox games that are in development, but I'm not sure on the progress, or when they expect to be release.
Point being, games in the mold of WOW define progression based on the magic loot you get from raiding dungeons / killing badies means that your primary objective, regardless of what class you pick, will involve you engaging in some form of combat....with the idea being, the greater your combat effectiveness is, the more progress you experience in the game.
You have to find a game that doesn't work off that linear combat profession, gear based progression paradigm.
Bad news is, there hasn't been a lot of established & polished games like this over the last 5-10 years. The good news is, there are a lot of indie developers trying to fill this gap in the market....but, since they are indie outfits, will take some time & patience for a good one to emerge.
GL!
After reading your post, I felt like I read a great novel.
Originally posted by BoneserinoWaiting for someone to state the obvious here......
Hmm is it give mmos a break?Or is it your playing the wrong game!Right you have a few choices. You want it rough m8ie then try Mortal Online but try and find a friend to help teach you it, you will not be in kansas anymore.Er other game I recommend.Age Of Conan. Its combat system is pretty top notch but the game is quite unpolished compared to "WoW" you may get to cap and find boredom awaits you.
Nope a little off the mark but you make good points.
What family eats 2 tigers a week?
lolll idk..
maybe they trade the tiger for some bread. idk hahaha
All MMO games, to a programmer, are the same. They are client server database interaction with a GUI (game). Any game you play, underneath the graphics, will be just a numbers game. It is up to you to decide what part of the game you enjoy and focus on that.
I think your gamer type is Social, you enjoy the community and the artist aspects of the game, its look and feel. You are less fulfilled by its Killer aspects of combat. You want to achieve wins, rather than perform at maximum potential. My PvP suggestion is play as a team, and don't try to solo. In real life, there are SWAT teams, and Fireteams. Why? Because they work.
The only game I didn't find myself watching the numbers was Minecraft, and that is not because it is a sandbox. Even a sandbox underneath is nothing but a numbers game like any themepark. Puzzle Pirate, or Wizard101 may be the true solution for you, if you can't or wont go back to WoW.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Originally posted by Boneserino Waiting for someone to state the obvious here......
That he needs to find a sandbox type MMO, where there are other roles, in a symbotic community, outside of the fighter / adventurer?
What comes to mind is how Ultima Online used to be. If expert timing on your skill / spell rotation isn't your thing, you could make just as good of a "living" in the game as a full time trader / merchant (Blacksmith, Carpenter, Alchemist, Tailor, Miner, Chef, Fisherman, Cartographer, Animal Tamer, Bard, Tinkerer, etc.)
No, the crafting profession in UO was not like WOW. Crafting / Merchant professions were full time professions that supplied the combat players in the game with gear, that was only marginally less effective than the limited magic items available in the game. Given UO was a full loot game, players constantly needed to replenish their equipment...creating a market demand for said crafting / trade professions.
Unfortunately, I don't think a good replacement for the old UO is here *yet*. I know there have been a bunch of indie sandbox games that are in development, but I'm not sure on the progress, or when they expect to be release.
Point being, games in the mold of WOW define progression based on the magic loot you get from raiding dungeons / killing badies means that your primary objective, regardless of what class you pick, will involve you engaging in some form of combat....with the idea being, the greater your combat effectiveness is, the more progress you experience in the game.
You have to find a game that doesn't work off that linear combat profession, gear based progression paradigm.
Bad news is, there hasn't been a lot of established & polished games like this over the last 5-10 years. The good news is, there are a lot of indie developers trying to fill this gap in the market....but, since they are indie outfits, will take some time & patience for a good one to emerge.
GL!
After reading your post, I felt like I read a great novel.
Thank you for showing me the big picture!
Believe me....I've been where you are at for a while now. I check in on MMORPG atleast once a week, in hopes to find some new game that speaks to the kind of game play you talk about.
I too have never had great "twitch" skills (if I did, I'd be playing FPS games), and I was never good at hot-keying all my skills / spells.
I like the idea of the community / virtual world, aspect of MMOs, and while World of Warcraft was a really great experience at first, I've seen it progressively change in ways that limits meaningful community interaction, and has become a min / maxer utopia....now that the game is mostly about PUGing dungeons for loot.
I've seen ALOT of great MMO game ideas on paper (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Ryzom, etc.), but indie companies being what they are, ended up trying to solve world hunger on a limited budget, and never followed through with all their design promises.
Several people have made some suggestions on games to check out. There are some F2P private server options for games like Star Wars Galaxies, and Utlima Online (if you don't mind older graphics)
It actually is difficult to dispel the minmaxer charm. Once you're exposed, it may be as persistent as herpes.
How do I get back to a much simpler view of the game when I knew less about it (mechanically)?
(Or how do I remove 30 years of combined mmo beenthere-donethat?)
I honestly don't believe you can recover your innocence. Your best hope is to shift to a completely different system that has no significant cooldowns to manage (and thus no 'rotation').
As long as cooldowns apply, you will be seeking ways to operate more efficiently. The hook is already in your gills.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
It actually is difficult to dispel the minmaxer charm. Once you're exposed, it may be as persistent as herpes.
How do I get back to a much simpler view of the game when I knew less about it (mechanically)?
(Or how do I remove 30 years of combined mmo beenthere-donethat?)
I honestly don't believe you can recover your innocence. Your best hope is to shift to a completely different system that has no significant cooldowns to manage (and thus no 'rotation').
As long as cooldowns apply, you will be seeking ways to operate more efficiently. The hook is already in your gills.
Most of what you said is true, but I'd suggest that min / maxing mostly applies when you're dealing with competitive combat (PvE or PvP)
When the game provides no other meaningful role, than a combatant (as is the case with WOW type combat driven professions), then you end up in the trap you speak of.
However, if the game provides for supporting roles (specifically merchant types that fill supply gaps in the market), then you don't have to be so concerned about efficiently executing your combat rotations....if your primary job is to mine & blacksmith all day.
I have similar track record. I spent many years trying to be top 10 in wol and top on server etc, then I left finally for a couple years, came back and m. Whine the curve - but I've learned to let go a bit, now Im in original guild but don't hardcore it, I just play casually, but still heavy min max - but now I compete against myself, I wont have top gear on server ever again, and equally I don't have pressure to be a top performer - in short it's a lot more fun, best of both worlds.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
I would start by playing The Secret World. Probably the most immersive solo game out there and it is a completely different setting than WoW. I'm going to guess if you play a WoW clone like Rift or even just a game in the same setting as WoW you are going to get turned off because of WoW burnout from playing it so long.
Secret World!! ^^
I'm really enjoying this game right myself. ^^
To build off of that, many players (especially the ones that have logged over 1000 hours of GW2, or WOW type games) carry that fatigue to other games that work off the same paradigm.
THIS is the reason so many of the games that have been released after WOW have "failed". Games like Rift, Guild Wars 2, and Star Wars the Old Republic are amazing games....and would likely have similar success WOW had, IF people hadn't already played a very similar type of game for 3-5 years already.
It doesn't matter if you are playing WOW, Rift, Warhammer, Guild Wars 2, or the new Star Wars MMO.....when you boil it down, you're still running the same kill / delivery quest, for the 500th time. You're still killing something, in some dungeon, for some piece of armor / weapon, that does nothing more than prepare you for the next higher difficulty dungeon.
The typical use case is this:
Joe plays World of Warcraft for 4 years and has grown tired of the novelty of this new "themepark" type of MMO and is desperate for something that gave him the same feeling he had when starting WOW.
Rift / Warhammer / Aion / GW2 / SWTOR releases, with some slightly different gimmick (dynamic raids, public raids, wings, Star Wars IP).....Joe gets in first day, and gets *some* of that old feeling back.
After playing a few weeks, or a few months, Joe sees through the facade and realized they are doing the same thing in this new game that he's done in WOW for the last 4 years and has to make a decision. Do I start all over again, doing the same stuff in a different game (getting back to max level, making new friends, get back on the gear treadmill, make money).....or just go back to WOW, where I've already planted those seeds?
Joe goes back to WOW and trudges on, further increasing burnout.
Joe repeats this process for the next big AAA MMO title released, but finds it takes him less time to arrive to the same conclusion (this is the same dog & pony show)
Rince & Repeat....with each burnout period getting shorter & shorter....until Joe quits all the new games & WOW all together.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Well you're out of luck because virtually every AAA MMORPG of the last 9 years has been a straight carbon copy WoW clone, with LotRO and Rift being some of the worst offenders.
The MMO genre has more or less been dead for a decade. GW2 is the only none WoWy themepark I've found.
As of now, I have nothing but respect for you since you, sir, seem to have thoroughly read my post and drew a very simple and accurate conclusion from it. So thank you for that.
Aside from that, would I be a dull person if I fail to sense a hint of ridicule in your choice of words? =P
Not looking for a fight here! nono!
Wow is pve orientated
War is pvp orientated
That's a bloody huge difference there.
Let's leave wow clone for the games that deserve it yeah, e.g. rift, swtor.
After reading your post, I felt like I read a great novel.
Thank you for showing me the big picture!
lolll idk..
maybe they trade the tiger for some bread. idk hahaha
All MMO games, to a programmer, are the same. They are client server database interaction with a GUI (game). Any game you play, underneath the graphics, will be just a numbers game. It is up to you to decide what part of the game you enjoy and focus on that.
I think your gamer type is Social, you enjoy the community and the artist aspects of the game, its look and feel. You are less fulfilled by its Killer aspects of combat. You want to achieve wins, rather than perform at maximum potential. My PvP suggestion is play as a team, and don't try to solo. In real life, there are SWAT teams, and Fireteams. Why? Because they work.
The only game I didn't find myself watching the numbers was Minecraft, and that is not because it is a sandbox. Even a sandbox underneath is nothing but a numbers game like any themepark. Puzzle Pirate, or Wizard101 may be the true solution for you, if you can't or wont go back to WoW.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Believe me....I've been where you are at for a while now. I check in on MMORPG atleast once a week, in hopes to find some new game that speaks to the kind of game play you talk about.
I too have never had great "twitch" skills (if I did, I'd be playing FPS games), and I was never good at hot-keying all my skills / spells.
I like the idea of the community / virtual world, aspect of MMOs, and while World of Warcraft was a really great experience at first, I've seen it progressively change in ways that limits meaningful community interaction, and has become a min / maxer utopia....now that the game is mostly about PUGing dungeons for loot.
I've seen ALOT of great MMO game ideas on paper (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Ryzom, etc.), but indie companies being what they are, ended up trying to solve world hunger on a limited budget, and never followed through with all their design promises.
Several people have made some suggestions on games to check out. There are some F2P private server options for games like Star Wars Galaxies, and Utlima Online (if you don't mind older graphics)
It actually is difficult to dispel the minmaxer charm. Once you're exposed, it may be as persistent as herpes.
How do I get back to a much simpler view of the game when I knew less about it (mechanically)?
(Or how do I remove 30 years of combined mmo beenthere-donethat?)
I honestly don't believe you can recover your innocence. Your best hope is to shift to a completely different system that has no significant cooldowns to manage (and thus no 'rotation').
As long as cooldowns apply, you will be seeking ways to operate more efficiently. The hook is already in your gills.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Most of what you said is true, but I'd suggest that min / maxing mostly applies when you're dealing with competitive combat (PvE or PvP)
When the game provides no other meaningful role, than a combatant (as is the case with WOW type combat driven professions), then you end up in the trap you speak of.
However, if the game provides for supporting roles (specifically merchant types that fill supply gaps in the market), then you don't have to be so concerned about efficiently executing your combat rotations....if your primary job is to mine & blacksmith all day.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D