What content would bring you back/make you stay

xpiher · November 2013

Open discussion. The only replies I'll make are asking for clarity and a summary.

MrBoots · November 2013

Clothing that can be layered over armor. It would be for cosmetic purposes only.

Dye system for clothing, cloth armor, and leather armor.

Real Player Housing

Real Player Built Cities

Capturable Resource Nodes to replace city nodes and villages.

Local Banking with the addition of cargo ships, cargo wagons, and pack animals.

Economy Overhaul

Better mob AI

Better mob loot tables with magical weapon components as rare drops that can be used to give weapons and armors bonuses like elemental damage and a visual effect. Think fire/ice/acid weapons in AC1. Add a bonus slot to crafting that allows the crafter to insert one enchantment component per item.

Less gear dependency. Differences in gear should be minimal. Instead make them give combat style or situational bonuses.

Less gathering grind.

Regional rare resources.

Rare ores can be added to give metal armor and weapons a different hue/tint. Dyes would be used for leather and cloth.

Consolidate gathering nodes in appropriate areas.

Populate the world with npcs.

Replace guard towers with npc guards that can be hired.

More indirect combat utility roles. Alchemists, Tamers, Bards, Engineers

Animal and mount taming with rare/epic mounts wandering the game world.

Consequences for murder and a player justice system.

Better alliance system that allows the creation of named alliances that can not be joined and parted on a whim.

Clan/Alliance wars that allow combat in safe zones and do not require a siege.

Siege equipment

I can keep going but I need to make breakfast now.

psykobilly · November 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Open discussion. The only replies I'll make are asking for clarity and a summary.

I recently resubbed my crafter account to check out pop... game was dead, unsubbed it again.

I think you are under a false assumption that content is the reason most people left the game. Sure more dungeons are nice, etc. But it is the game's core design that is the issue.

What we want is sandbox class design. No preset roles, just DF1 but with some limitations to how many 100 skills you can have and which skill trees you can go into. Basically some combination of Mortal Online's limited skill points system + DF1.

Crafting in DFUW (and DF1) is a joke. Totally uninteresting cookie-cutter system. Bring in some system where unique items can be made dynamically. Linear - grind 100 of this - crafting systems are total shit.

The prowess system is interesting but flawed. My main char had like 100k prowess and I had every feat done through terrors (even then I only have one class fully maxed out). It got to the point where I wanted to try other classes, but the only way to get enough prowess was to kill hundreds of the next level mob above terrors. It's fucking _boring_ doing those grinds, and for pretty shitty drops usually. They should have weighted easy mobs more heavily with prowess. End game mobs should be +20% more prowess than early mobs, not +10000%. Allowing a prowess reset won't bring me back because I will still have to deal with grind that is simply dull in order to try more play styles.

The most fun part of DF1 (instant repeatable content) was small-scale city-raiding. That has all but disappeared in DFUW. Even with tower damage reductions it hasn't helped. Towers in DF1 were merely alarm systems, and that's how it should have stayed.

-----

My recap:

1. Completely redesign the class system into a sandbox one.

2. Completely redesign crafting system into a sandbox one.

3. Prowess system is good, but change weighting to reward newbs and mid-tier more heavily. Make mobs worthwhile to kill.

4. Make cities dangerous to live in and fun to raid again.

As none of these things are going to happen... I'll sit it out until DF3.

Mad+Dog · November 2013

O dear, game is dead move on. DF1 forever!, UW sucks.

xpiher · November 2013

"Less gear dependency. Differences in gear should be minimal. Instead make them give combat style or situational bonuses."

The gear dependency issue isn't as bad as it may seem on the outside looking in. Noticeable differences only exist between every 2 gear levels in the mastery line of gear. Hell, people are able to do massive amount of damage naked in many cases.

goldtoof · November 2013

Removing all the macroing and scripting stuff. Make it pure action combat.

alf2ooo · November 2013

Enchanting and localized loot tables for skinning mats as it was in the past.

Dungeons need to be implemented with daily prowess quests (df1 style) AND valuable loot tables.

Cannons + city cannons.

I personally would love a classless system or even the double class system, being able to mix the schools, leaving the armor req based on the primary one, but I understand that's not a simple task.

Less afk prowess and gold.

Ender4 · November 2013

Nothing would bring more people to this game than offering a free trial or making the early levels free like Ryzom did. It is such an obvious move that it is just silly that they haven't done it.

Mors.Magne · November 2013

It really would not matter what content the devs promised to add to DFUW - I would not come back because it takes the devs far too long to add content. To make matters worse, the devs have also removed good content.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

MrBoots · November 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
"Less gear dependency. Differences in gear should be minimal. Instead make them give combat style or situational bonuses."

The gear dependency issue isn't as bad as it may seem on the outside looking in. Noticeable differences only exist between every 2 gear levels in the mastery line of gear. Hell, people are able to do massive amount of damage naked in many cases.

Outside looking in? I'm an active subscriber with 100 in most crafting masteries. I know very well that a guy with a r10 sword and chain armor is at a huge disadvantage against a guy in dread with a leenspar sword. The only exception is duelist which has insanely overpowered abilities. Also mages to some extent.

xpiher · November 2013

Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by xpiher
"Less gear dependency. Differences in gear should be minimal. Instead make them give combat style or situational bonuses."

The gear dependency issue isn't as bad as it may seem on the outside looking in. Noticeable differences only exist between every 2 gear levels in the mastery line of gear. Hell, people are able to do massive amount of damage naked in many cases.

Outside looking in? I'm an active subscriber with 100 in most crafting masteries. I know very well that a guy with a r10 sword and chain armor is at a huge disadvantage against a guy in dread with a leenspar sword. The only exception is duelist which has insanely overpowered abilities. Also mages to some extent.

And you think that shouldn't be the case?

SirBalin · November 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Open discussion. The only replies I'll make are asking for clarity and a summary.

1. Add in enchanting and make it so you need matts from out in the open world (not safe zones) so that you can find people in the open world for pvp.

2. Make it so all classes can get into cities so that you can solo pvp (maybe ladders)

3. Get rid of city protection

4. Get rid of the in game merc system

5. Limit allies to only 2 per clan with a max number of 50 players per clan (I know people will still call in help, but it's a lot harder to call in help when the targets aren't all ally tags)

6. Add a video from Tasos and the crew openly admitting they've lied over and over and they won't do it again

Then I'd consider.

BelegStrongbow · November 2013

RIP Darkfall 1.

One of the best games I ever played. I miss it.

SirBalin · November 2013

Anyone that says duelist is op isn't good at DF...plain and simple. Duelest is super powerful, but it's all in melee...duelist wear crap armor, so going into melee can get you killed just as fast as you can kill someone else.

RabidMouth · November 2013

Stable devs that dont get drunk and spill the milk. They poison their own game.

elocke · November 2013

A cheaper sub fee. I'm not going to pay what they charge to get ganked. Just not happening.

SirBalin · November 2013

Originally posted by elocke
A cheaper sub fee. I'm not going to pay what they charge to get ganked. Just not happening.

Well...lot of things I can agree with in the post, but you can't go to a hardcore pvp game and expect not to get ganked...at least not an ow sandbox style of game. Most people go to DF for that element...probably just not the game for you.

SirBalin · November 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by xpiher
"Less gear dependency. Differences in gear should be minimal. Instead make them give combat style or situational bonuses."

The gear dependency issue isn't as bad as it may seem on the outside looking in. Noticeable differences only exist between every 2 gear levels in the mastery line of gear. Hell, people are able to do massive amount of damage naked in many cases.

Outside looking in? I'm an active subscriber with 100 in most crafting masteries. I know very well that a guy with a r10 sword and chain armor is at a huge disadvantage against a guy in dread with a leenspar sword. The only exception is duelist which has insanely overpowered abilities. Also mages to some extent.

And you think that shouldn't be the case?

Gear in DF is probably less important than in most games. A stud player could beat a avg player if the avg player is in top gear and the stud is in crap gear.

HEKKRA · November 2013

remove the class based game.

REMOVE THE TERRIBLE CONSOLE UI.

elocke · November 2013

Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by elocke
A cheaper sub fee. I'm not going to pay what they charge to get ganked. Just not happening.

Well...lot of things I can agree with in the post, but you can't go to a hardcore pvp game and expect not to get ganked...at least not an ow sandbox style of game. Most people go to DF for that element...probably just not the game for you.

Yeah. Which sucks because I want a sandbox like this with the high amount of immersion I just can't stand hardcore PVP. I have the same problem with Eve. But, what's my alternative? Nothing but themeparks which are ok but don't scratch that sandbox itch I have.

Ice-Queen · November 2013

Nothing. If a game doesn't keep me past the first 30 days, I don't usually look back to it.

DarthRaiden · November 2013

Originally posted by psykobilly
Originally posted by xpiher
Open discussion. The only replies I'll make are asking for clarity and a summary.

I recently resubbed my crafter account to check out pop... game was dead, unsubbed it again.

I think you are under a false assumption that content is the reason most people left the game. Sure more dungeons are nice, etc. But it is the game's core design that is the issue.

What we want is sandbox class design. No preset roles, just DF1 but with some limitations to how many 100 skills you can have and which skill trees you can go into. Basically some combination of Mortal Online's limited skill points system + DF1.

Crafting in DFUW (and DF1) is a joke. Totally uninteresting cookie-cutter system. Bring in some system where unique items can be made dynamically. Linear - grind 100 of this - crafting systems are total shit.

The prowess system is interesting but flawed. My main char had like 100k prowess and I had every feat done through terrors (even then I only have one class fully maxed out). It got to the point where I wanted to try other classes, but the only way to get enough prowess was to kill hundreds of the next level mob above terrors. It's fucking _boring_ doing those grinds, and for pretty shitty drops usually. They should have weighted easy mobs more heavily with prowess. End game mobs should be +20% more prowess than early mobs, not +10000%. Allowing a prowess reset won't bring me back because I will still have to deal with grind that is simply dull in order to try more play styles.

The most fun part of DF1 (instant repeatable content) was small-scale city-raiding. That has all but disappeared in DFUW. Even with tower damage reductions it hasn't helped. Towers in DF1 were merely alarm systems, and that's how it should have stayed.

-----

My recap:

1. Completely redesign the class system into a sandbox one.

2. Completely redesign crafting system into a sandbox one.

3. Prowess system is good, but change weighting to reward newbs and mid-tier more heavily. Make mobs worthwhile to kill.

4. Make cities dangerous to live in and fun to raid again.

As none of these things are going to happen... I'll sit it out until DF3.

This is a good start ..

I am adding to this :

First and mos important revert the current game to DF1 and start adding from there :

to 1. armor specialization system + prestige class system (since the word 'class' is in to prevent from missconception what it means is something like professions or what AV understood as prestige classes in their pre DF:UW contamination era)

to 2. Raw materials have attributes are of differend types and / or class are regional and follow dynamic spawn patterns.

Crafting process in itself : Items have different complexity and a very complex (high grade item) needs more steps to be crafted out the components that results from the crafts inbetween.

experimental system : Players can raise the risk in crafting by investing experimental points for trying for exceptional results but at higher risk to loose the materials in that step.

a minigame checking the twitch skill of a crafter similar to the twitchskill of a combatant influencing the crafting result.

crafting specializations, interdependency of crafting "professions".

NO craftable ITEMS IN LOOT , at best loot in PvE contains just components for crafters, along with the philosophy "every item in the game can be crafted and shouldnt be looted"

- Reintroduction of racial wars, racial lore, racial perks, racial gameplay content (defense terretory against racial enemies etc.

- Removing of safezones and adding tools for players to govern territories :

This includes empire building tools :

* Free to build and place : military building types (in a castle), civilian building types (in a village) , limited military building types (in outposts and villages)

* Ability to mark an area of influence on the territory (think borders) - boundary marking buildings

* Ability to define rules for that marked area, presented in sign posts, Banking rules aplied artificially / warning about rule violations to the owner over those not applied artificially.

* Tech lines on buildings like RTS games.

* Villages can host markets ( building whch players can rent vendors to sale off their goods), Village inhabitants elect major, can apply to village militia, work and and apply for guilds (in the sense of oblivion guilds) and start a civilian carrer

(connected to prestige classes like described in first point, example "City Major", "City Militia Officer", "Armorsmith guild Novice", "Alchemist Guild master" etc..)

* major can agree and sign contracts with castle owner for defense service.

- economy :

Local markets ! Local banks ! regional ressources, trade through local vendors in markets.

Local currency (types are predefined tho, example gold, a single good that has to be set, a set of interchangable goods)

playerdriven caravans on land / cargo ships on sea as trasport solution inbetween market places.

- Missions

* dynamic generated missions for all type of PvE or artificial generated content

* ability for players to create missions for others ( especially - > Clan missions, but also trade missions, harvest missions, craft missions etc.)

- A racial guild career in NPC cities (similar to civilian village carreer but with factional background and lore)

example through Prestige classes like "Human defender" (in a human NPC city) or "Orkish Warmonger" (in a Ork NPC city )

progress through artificial and player generated missions.

- Dynamic mob spawn, mobs start to build higher tier buildings and tech and spawn high tier and amount if left alone.

mobs can be extincted in one area for a amount of time.

Mobs can attack villages, castles, NPC cities..

etc. etc...

PS: can someone post this in MVP forums ?

Grixxitt · November 2013

If they would have actually designed a 3D sandbox instead of a PvP game with massive, boring, all-consuming timesinks in place I never would have quit.

Instead we have a game where there are essentially 2 things to do - PvP, and acquire resources (to PvP with). At its core DFUW just isn't fun by most gamers' definition. Adding a feature or two just isn't going to change anything measurable when the core gameplay is so dull.

And this comes from an AV fanboy for most of DF1's lifespan.

Markusrind · November 2013

Originally posted by Grixxitt
... a PvP game with massive, boring, all-consuming timesinks in place...there are essentially 2 things to do - PvP, and acquire resources (to PvP with)...

You just described the problem with all current Sandbox (well they claim to be sandbox but are not even close) games.

Untill a game comes out that realises sandbox is more then just FFA PvP and to qualify as sandbox needs many different ways of playing the game, they will all be niche, mediocre and indie.

Holophonist · November 2013

More sandbox features and accessibility for smaller clans/groups of friends. Once I maxed I lost interest because I wasn't working towards much. For instance: the ability to make your own small city somewhere. In UO you had a lot of variety in housing options and customization.

xpiher · November 2013

A lot of stuff in here I agree with, but a lot of it just aren't reasonable request such as getting rid of UW entirely, the class system, etc.

The ideas in this thread will largely get forwarded to the devs. Paragus is still watching DFO after all.

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