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Time and Money: how we are robbed and ruined by MMO companies

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  • RabidMouthRabidMouth Charlotte, NCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

    I completely understand what the OP is talking about & I have plenty of capital to burn on MMO's if I wanted.

     

    Consider this. You've been playing Monopoly™ & all of the sudden the rules change & there is now an exchange rate to buy in game currency. Kind of changes the game dynamic, doesn't it?

     

    And people wonder why RMT, bots, hackers, gold sellers & spammers run rampant in games these days. Too many lazy fat-cats would rather buy their way into 'leet status' than earn it like they had to in the old days. That's the real truth.

     

    Fair play & having a level playing field is a dead concept, it would seem...

     

    Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys will pay a fee to have an extra player on the field this season...

     

    /facepalm/peelfaceoff

    I can see them trying this. They already paid for Dez Bryant to have his own babysitters to keep him out of trouble.

     

    To draw back to the main point, money will almost always give you an unfair advantage. It's a sad fact of reality, but a sad fact all the same. It makes the world go round.

    These companies are here to make money, and in the end that is all they really care about. You can say the same for any business.

    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

    Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys will pay a fee to have an extra player on the field this season...

    This line is actually like shooting in your own foot... since it's well know that sport clubs trade their best players for huge amounts of money. So yeah, those "Dallas Cowboys" (or any other sport club) "Pays to Win" by having the money to get the best players to play for them instead of the opponents.

    Which is why I said "extra player", but I'm a salary cap kind of 'fan' anyway.

     

    I think my point was made well enough.

    You analogy was completely flawed - since professional sport is quite a lot about big money.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    I think a lot of people trying to say its in our power to not play, are ignoring an important aspect of democracy and lobbying our opinions.

    See the thing is, a business, can be very powerful when its support comes from something that is not going to forward our interest in games for example, and also exploits certain elements which are not defined as unethical.

    For example, teen rated MMOs exploit teenagers that have a lot of time on thier hand. Also MMOs have a unique advantage now compared to before. They can get a demographic from billions of potential customers with varying tastes. So hoping that supply and demand play a role to shape a game to all our interests is not going to happen... 1. MMOs exploit teenagers, and 2. The potential market is so huge that they just follow a certain established standard of video gaming which unfortunately is becoming less enjoyable and they will be profitable.

    The MMO genre does not follow the same scrutiny as other businesses, and that is the major problem imo.

    They should not be allowed to design systems that when working as intended waste peoples time to ad infinitum. Especially when it is supported by teenagers, having their youth exploited.

    If MMOs are not held to a certain standard like other businesses then we would all be worse off in the world. However, these standards help everyone in the end. It might have a greater cost to a business but in the end if society benefits, everyone benefits including businesses that want to be part of a long contributing future instead of leeching on to whatever scraps are available.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • RabidMouthRabidMouth Charlotte, NCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

    Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys will pay a fee to have an extra player on the field this season...

    This line is actually like shooting in your own foot... since it's well know that sport clubs trade their best players for huge amounts of money. So yeah, those "Dallas Cowboys" (or any other sport club) "Pays to Win" by having the money to get the best players to play for them instead of the opponents.

    Which is why I said "extra player", but I'm a salary cap kind of 'fan' anyway.

     

    I think my point was made well enough.

    You analogy was completely flawed - since professional sport is quite a lot about big money.

    Even college sports is about big money. It isnt supposed to be, but it is all the same.

    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    They should not be allowed to design systems that when working as intended waste peoples time to ad infinitum. Especially when it is supported by teenagers, having their youth exploited.

    Or maybe parents should take their responsibilities and start to watch what their teenager is doing for hours and hours on his computer instead of doing homework or other things?

    But Internet and video games are a very convenient babysitter... doesn't cost much, and gets rid of those pesky annoying kids.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • Monamia222Monamia222 pineville, LAPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Look, the point is this: Back in Everquest II I became noble and "Sir" Elikal after years of hard work IN THE GAME. I did a lot of status quests for my guild. Now in EQ Landmarks you BUY a title for $90. THAT is what is plain wrong, because games SHOULD NOT BE about how much money you have, but how good, patient and dedicated IN the game you are.

    Being able to BUY all that stuff makes it worthless and ruins all sense of accomplishment!

    Actually, you could say this about real life also and it would be just as true.

    image
  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Monticello, MNPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

    Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys will pay a fee to have an extra player on the field this season...

    This line is actually like shooting in your own foot... since it's well know that sport clubs trade their best players for huge amounts of money. So yeah, those "Dallas Cowboys" (or any other sport club) "Pays to Win" by having the money to get the best players to play for them instead of the opponents.

    Which is why I said "extra player", but I'm a salary cap kind of 'fan' anyway.

     

    I think my point was made well enough.

    You analogy was completely flawed - since professional sport is quite a lot about big money.

    You can focus on that tiny little piece of the post if you like but it in no way discredits the information contained within. [mod edit]

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
    I completely understand what the OP is talking about & I have plenty of capital to burn on MMO's if I wanted. Consider this. You've been playing Monopoly™ & all of the sudden the rules change & there is now an exchange rate to buy in game currency. Kind of changes the game dynamic, doesn't it? And people wonder why RMT, bots, hackers, gold sellers & spammers run rampant in games these days. Too many lazy fat-cats would rather buy their way into 'leet status' than earn it like they had to in the old days. That's the real truth. Fair play & having a level playing field is a dead concept, it would seem... Perhaps the Dallas Cowboys will pay a fee to have an extra player on the field this season... /facepalm/peelfaceoff

    But how come it came so far then to piont you discribe games status?.. i started play mmo's sinds '99 and not spent 1 eurocent ever on DLC OR CASHSHOPS.

    Is the group i belong to so small?

    It seems so becouse many who claim hating everything involved cashshops or RMT hate it but still playing them lol(know few gamers who hate casshops but still playing and spent money on cashshops lol).

    Its indeed long gone the times that players dont mind timesink-difficulty to earn there satus and gear actually playing for it.

    Thats why i abandon GW2 early this year and play solo games.

    Im amazed how easy people spending more on games then in subcription era but with less depth and easy gameplay just so they brag about that they have bought(not accomplished but bought) its all beyond me.

    Well have fun guys buying your way to top.

    GAMEOVER!

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  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    I think a lot of people trying to say its in our power to not play, are ignoring an important aspect of democracy and lobbying our opinions.

    See the thing is, a business, can be very powerful when its support comes from something that is not going to forward our interest in games for example, and also exploits certain elements which are not defined as unethical.

    For example, teen rated MMOs exploit teenagers that have a lot of time on thier hand. Also MMOs have a unique advantage now compared to before. They can get a demographic from billions of potential customers with varying tastes. So hoping that supply and demand play a role to shape a game to all our interests is not going to happen... 1. MMOs exploit teenagers, and 2. The potential market is so huge that they just follow a certain established standard of video gaming which unfortunately is becoming less enjoyable and they will be profitable.

    The MMO genre does not follow the same scrutiny as other businesses, and that is the major problem imo.

    They should not be allowed to design systems that when working as intended waste peoples time to ad infinitum. Especially when it is supported by teenagers, having their youth exploited.

    If MMOs are not held to a certain standard like other businesses then we would all be worse off in the world. However, these standards help everyone in the end. It might have a greater cost to a business but in the end if society benefits, everyone benefits including businesses that want to be part of a long contributing future instead of leeching on to whatever scraps are available.

    Hello, we're the Government and we're here to help you. By forcing you to pay for the things you don't want and forbidding the things you do want.

     

     Has it ever occurred to you that games are the way they are because people want them that way? If they didn't there would be no money in it. Capitalism is Democracy. What you're asking for is Tyranny. If the cost of freedom is games I don't like I'll use that freedom to chose not to play them. See how that works?

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    I am actually started thinking of how to purge my system from them.

    Step 1: Log off the forums.

    Step 2: Dunno, never made it to step 2.

     

    But OP: What you're doing here is equivalent to complaining about how hard it is to stop using crack while sitting in a crack house.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    How much freer than FREE does the game have to be for poor people to play?

    Aye, and it's even more fascinating when you consider that the OP praises the old subscription based model in his thread title post, which involved buying the initial box, paying a fee every month (or you can't play at all) and paying for each expansion.

    At least in a F2P game, a person with low income can still play even if he can't pay anything a specific month. Seems way more "poor friendly" to me than the old model.

    Yes but his argument was never the cost or that it should be free ( or not free enough ) It's that he doesn't want the different pay scales and all the things that come with paying more vrs paying less.

    Right now we see a range from $20-100 and most gamers are fine with it. That doesn't mean we wont start to see those numbers go up. When they do what do they start to offer ?  I don't want to bring pay to win into this but if we become desensitized to it, they will add it if it brings in more money.

    I do kind of empathize with him but it's just a fact in life that people with money will always have more toys.

    It can only go up if players want it to. It's only where it is because players want it there.

    Which is the more likely scenario:

    1)

    • Dev 1: "Make packages valued at X, Y and Z"
    • Dev2: "OK, to do that, the players will want A, B and C in it them in order for them to consider it worth it."
    • Dev 1: "Go for it."
    • Players: "Oh! That's stuff I want at a price I am willing to pay. I will buy that."

     

    2)

    • Dev 1: "Make packages valued at X, Y and Z"
    • Dev2: "OK, to do that, the players will want A, B and C in it them in order for them to consider it worth it."
    • Dev 1: "Nah. Except for those seven industry-savvy business mavens at MMORPG.com that think every gamer is a frikken weak-willed addicted idiot except them, everyone IS a frikken weak-willed addicted idiot. Put out crap and make them buy it!"
    • Players: "I - am - stupid. Must - buy - thing - simply - because - it - exists."

    To all but the magnificent seven here, it's obviously the first one. As for empathizing for him, that's ridiculous. It's the most entitled and self-centered view I've ever seen come out of a gamer over the age of five. He's talking about the ALPHA for a video game, not even the game itself, because that's FREE. He's upset others get to play a video game before him because they have money and he's just an unemployed artist.

    Look, it's all fine and good to take his post as if it is an altruistic plea for peace/love/equality posted in a vaccuum, but if you look at his post history, he's been going on about how the rich get to be rich in game and the poor are stuck being poor in game for quite a few threads now. That angle wasn't working for him, so he took the shotgun approach in this one including the How can you waste your life playing video games? appeal and the ever-lovable Where is the equality? angle. That last one got traction because, unlike the first, it allows people to point outward rather than look inward.

    His argument has always been that he feels it's unfair that people with more money have more things than him. Flat out saying that hasn't really worked for him, so the laundry list of appeals showed up in the gem of an OP we have here in hopes that one sticks. Don't take my word for it, look at his post history.

     

    Next year he can play a multimillion dollar game for FREE, but he doesn't want to wait until then and he finds it unfair that people with money can play it before him. THAT is exactly his argument and if you actually look at his post history and his video, everything else is fluff to garner sympathy for his cause - he feels it's unfair that other people have games that he wants because they have the money to buy it, even though he will still get it for FREE just at a later date.

    Dude, that stuff is coming from an ADULT! That's the mind-blowing part. You look at his video and he isn't eight years old or anything... he's an adult saying this. :(

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PieRad

    The only ones defending F2P is the middleclass who have just enough money to throw into games that they can feel better than everyone else, so they keep throwing a couple of hundred bucks into every bad "free" game that releases.

    It would be great if at least some of you who share Elikal's view could go a post or two without straw men, wild assumptions and sweeping generalizations about other people. I know better than to ask the insults to stop, but the other stuff really obfuscates the issue.

    Thanks!

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by fs23otm
    I get the OP's post. He is poor and wants to have the same as people who are not.#1 reason the world is going to hell these days:  Entitlement. OP your entitled to two things in life. Death and taxes... same as everyone else. Oh.. he doesn't want to work for anything (Most likely reason he is poor) #2 reason the world is the way it is: Instant Gratification. Not only does the OP not want to work for anything, but it ties back to #1 in that he wants it all handed to him.And people wonder why games are going to hell just like real life...

    The fact is people being poor should LOVE this system. They get high quality games and don't have to pay a dime. Just because someone else pays money and gets a couple fluff items for it shouldn't change the fact they are happy about this. You don't have to pay a dime and you can do everything everyone else does in the game. The only bonuses to the early beta access are things that you will be making in under a months time in game or pure fluff appearance items.

    Complaining about this model really doesn't make any sort of sense. I could see if they were say selling pickaxes that you couldn't obtain in the game and were better than those in the game or something, but that isn't how this model works at all from everything we know right now.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon

    I tried reading mostly the entire thread, however it is fairly long so I did skip the last 3 or 4 pages since most comments where being repeated.

     

    I understand, both sides.

    I agree and disagree with the OP.

     

    Reality really wiggled it's way into gaming. Yes the rich can now get better things then the poor. Why and when did this exactly happen? Well, back in the day gaming wasn't even seen as a mainstream sort of thing. Gamers where not cool and seen as geeks. Course I am going very far back here lol. Eventually gaming started to get popular. Along with popularity comes great change.

    Did you know, Lobster used to be eaten by the poor in very old times. Here is a very good read about it. http://voices.yahoo.com/how-lobster-went-poor-mans-food-rich-mans-5191759.html

    It's pretty interesting but it greatly shows the effects of an item going from unpopular to popular. It's actually very similar to what you are talking about.

    It sort of sucks to have to deal with situation you are in real life and be reminded of it in the pass times you enjoy.

     

    Now here is why I disagree.

    This model, while it does give higher paying customers more of an advantage or better things, it also makes the product cheaper to those who are less capable of paying. This makes the game freely available to those who have interest but not he coin to spare.

    I personally think it's a great payment model because it's very flexible to people of all backgrounds and professions. You are not forced to pay a monthly fee, so you have an opportunity to take breaks and come back when your able to. It's great for the casual, but also still works for the hardcore.

    Those who are willing to put more time into it, are able to.

    I already know many people will disagree with me on my stance. That is fine. I realize this model isn't for everyone. It works for me though because I really don't let others financial situations effect me. i don't care if the person next to me spent $500 and that is why he or she has surpassed me. That doesn't effect me nor does it bother me in any way. After all, I choose to play the game how I would like to play it, and what right do I have to tell someone to play it the same way I do?

    I never feel the payment model makes much of a difference, as long as I feel the game is worth it.

    These days I personally haven't seen a game that I feel is worthy of a P2P model. Hmm .. maybe if a developer takes advantage of the Oculus ... I might pay monthly, as it would offer something new.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Is this a first world problem? Yes, this is a first world problem. The frickin' meme applies, and it's actually about money. Holeeee-cats.

    A person who is in the 0.1% of the world that holds 81% of the world's wealth* is complaining that someone else in that 0.1% wants to claim some of that wealth for an unnecessary luxury item. Moreover, it's a luxury item that if the person waits, they will be able to obtain for free.

    * We know this because they are on the internet, responding to posts using some form of personal computer. We know about the wealth distribution because we, also as members of the same group can look up that information using Google.

    **

    Not only will the product be available for free, users who have the talent and are willing to put in the work will be able to create things that they can potentially sell, earning money from the game.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rnor6084
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    With regards to the OP:

    Here's my advice to you in order of execution:

    1. Stop being an artist. Seriously. I an a entry level developer. There are too many artists and many artists have over-inflate how much they are actually worth. And seriously, the work is degrading, you're gonna spend hours making a damn tree that nobody gives two shits about in a video game.
    2. Find another way to make money.
    With regards to your MMO points, get over it. Before the introduction of "real money transactions" in MMORPGs here there was another currency of finite value: time. Back when we were younger, in the days of Lineage 2, , Final Fantasy XI, Ragnarok Online and other "old school MMOs, we had more time. As we grew older, the amount of time we had to invest in MMOs diminished. Many of the original "old school" MMO players have made $$$ (cha-ching) using the time they had to play MMOs in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody plotted a graph with the average income of MMO players from 2000 till now and we see a linear increase much greater than inflation. Less QQ, more play play.

    I did not want to say it. Glad some one did.

     

    #1 and #2 says it all.

     

    Not happy with your situation? Change it.

     

     

     

    I sort of agree.

    I'm an "artist" as well. Well, a composer. However, I realize that things cost money and my "art" doesn't make enough to live from.

    so I do a day job that easily pays the bills so I can "do my art".

    I never want for money when it comes time to spend but my day job doesn't suck up any more than the requisite 8 hours per day.

    I don't believe that video games are a "right". Just like the movies aren't a "right" or going to the theater or a concert. If you want to go "go", If you can't afford it then make changes.

    Having said that, I am for the "one price gets everything for everyone" However, if that one price needs to be higher then so be it.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 867Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by rnor6084
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    With regards to the OP:

    Here's my advice to you in order of execution:

    1. Stop being an artist. Seriously. I an a entry level developer. There are too many artists and many artists have over-inflate how much they are actually worth. And seriously, the work is degrading, you're gonna spend hours making a damn tree that nobody gives two shits about in a video game.
    2. Find another way to make money.

    #1 and #2 says it all.

     

    Not happy with your situation? Change it.

    I sort of agree.

    I'm an "artist" as well. Well, a composer. However, I realize that things cost money and my "art" doesn't make enough to live from.

    so I do a day job that easily pays the bills so I can "do my art".

    I never want for money when it comes time to spend but my day job doesn't suck up any more than the requisite 8 hours per day.

    I don't believe that video games are a "right". Just like the movies aren't a "right" or going to the theater or a concert. If you want to go "go", If you can't afford it then make changes.

    Having said that, I am for the "one price gets everything for everyone" However, if that one price needs to be higher then so be it.

    I'm in Sovrath's camp, but I understand Loktofeit's frustration.

    As far as "Stop being an artist"... that's a terrible suggestion.

    I think I'll just leave this quote by Kurt Vonnegut here: "starting right now, do art and do it for the rest of your lives."

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phaserlight

    As far as "Stop being an artist"... that's a terrible suggestion.

    I 200% agree with that. But still.

    There are two cases.

    1) You're a good artist, and your stuff sells. You can live with it.

    2) You're an artist, but your stuff doesn't sell well for any reason (maybe you're not so good? Maybe your stuff is just too "extreme" or "special", even if not bad?).

    In case 2, you need an additional activity to keep your life going on normally. Or you accept your state and live with it.

    It's a lesson you can take from the MMORPG market, actually... doing want you want doesn't always pay. Sometimes, you'll have to do what many people want instead. So that it sells.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon

    @ OP

     

    Welcome to the age of the monetized fantasy world.

     

    It's precisely why i hate the F2P trend in all its variants: the intrusion of real life commercial values into a gaming genre that used to be about leaving the real world behind.

     

    EQN Landmark is indeed a good example of the state of the MMO genre in 2013. SOE has obviously been watching very carefully what people are willing to pay for and they have jumped in with both feet into the realm of selling early access and special titles. They're even adopting the "you can make money too!" fantasy that Blizzard started with Diablo 3 by dangling the possible sale of Landmark creations for real money as yet another carrot.

     

    Being able or willing to pay for it is actually irrelevant to me. What annoys the shit out of me is that the games are polluted with inescapable real money transactions. Spend a lot or nothing at all but you can never escape the ever-present awareness that the real world economy is just as present there as it is in the Shopping Channel. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    The thing I would be concerned about is gold farmers. Instead of small, independent players participating in something fun and rewarding, the system becomes a massive labor sink for underpaid workers or people in prison camps. This seems like a more legit bogeyman to be afraid of to me.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Some people just like to suck all the fun out of this world. Even something as trivial as games which are made for entertainment are not safe from these party poopers.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    All the f2p/freemium games I've played I get almost the whole thing, 75-90% free.  The only thing I've ever had to pay for was if I wanted a particular class/race in EQ and even thats free now.

    VG, EQ2, EQ, CoH, DCUO, Aion - all freemium, all I've been able to play almost completely free.

    Later on in EQ2 I did spend money on the housing.  Housing is not required at all, especially if your are in a guild, however I wanted to build a castle so I bought things.

    I don't know where this 25-30% number is coming from, but it's not even remotely reality.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by Iselin

     

    Being able or willing to pay for it is actually irrelevant to me. What annoys the shit out of me is that the games are polluted with inescapable real money transactions. Spend a lot or nothing at all but you can never escape the ever-present awareness that the real world economy is just as present there as it is in the Shopping Channel. 


    To me that still beats putting a $60 investment into a game you don't know if you will like or spending $15/month and feeling locked into just one game at a time. It is a trade off and one I deem to be a good trade off.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,441Member Uncommon

    I think my very first post ever on the topic of RMT was that it was a gimmick to get their foot in the door.After they get people to accept it,it would get worse and worse because it is an idea that allows a developer to go above and beyond any set profits.

    Wow helped ruin it even further,not solely by itself but by becoming super popular,it set a certain standard other devs looked at.So now if you notice countless games,like a LARGE majority are copying Wow's cartoon graphics because they figure it is acceptable.

    I still remember when SOE started the Station cash and rmt,they said they wanted to ensure fairness so made separate rmt servers and normal sub fee servers.Their excuse at the time was since they could not top rmt,they fgured it only fair the developer gets in to it and offer a safer avenue for the gamer's.

    Problem is SOE turned their entire operation into a cash shop operation and sell anything and everything.For awhile they even sold items to reset gear so could be reused on another player or sold.

    Now we even have Blizzard who once physically laughed at the notion of buying a max level player,now they are offering that very idea they laughed at...hypocrite much?

    There is ONLY one way to get gaming back on track,quit supporting shotty/misleading ideas,make these devs lose millions,that is the only way they will wake up and stop trying to cheat us.The only sad part of it all is when we stop accepting these misleading ideas,people lose jobs,those employees don't deserve it but their employers really don't care one bit about them,they would fire them in an instant.


    Samoan Diamond

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
     

    It can only go up if players want it to. It's only where it is because players want it there.

    Which is the more likely scenario:

    1)

    • Dev 1: "Make packages valued at X, Y and Z"
    • Dev2: "OK, to do that, the players will want A, B and C in it them in order for them to consider it worth it."
    • Dev 1: "Go for it."
    • Players: "Oh! That's stuff I want at a price I am willing to pay. I will buy that."

     

    2)

    • Dev 1: "Make packages valued at X, Y and Z"
    • Dev2: "OK, to do that, the players will want A, B and C in it them in order for them to consider it worth it."
    • Dev 1: "Nah. Except for those seven industry-savvy business mavens at MMORPG.com that think every gamer is a frikken weak-willed addicted idiot except them, everyone IS a frikken weak-willed addicted idiot. Put out crap and make them buy it!"
    • Players: "I - am - stupid. Must - buy - thing - simply - because - it - exists."

    To all but the magnificent seven here, it's obviously the first one. As for empathizing for him, that's ridiculous. It's the most entitled and self-centered view I've ever seen come out of a gamer over the age of five. He's talking about the ALPHA for a video game, not even the game itself, because that's FREE. He's upset others get to play a video game before him because they have money and he's just an unemployed artist.

     

    I think you might be over simplifiying what's going on with these founders packages. Sure it works like #1 but it doesn't just end there. Giving people anything they'll pay for just because they'll pay for it isn't always a good thing.  Games have already shown that pay to win can work. Sure lots of us walk away from it because we know what they are but people can be trained to accept many things.

    The whole sex vrs violence thing is all social conditioning. Why is it ok to see a head cut off but show a boob and it becomes 18+. Babies see boobs every day of their life and they turn out ok...most of the time. 

    All they have to do to keep pushing the boundaries is make the changes slowly so people can accept them and the next time they can go a bit farther. Acceptance is like a fire that starts off slow but once it gets to a critical mass there's no stopping it. 

    And I empathize with his desire to keep real life  status out of our virtual worlds. Not the part where he thinks he should get special treatment :)

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