SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.
It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".
If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price. If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.
This is how real, functioning economies work.
If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy. Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.
Indeed! Real economy always works in a system where all the actors are perfectly rational! That's why the Invisible Hand of Free Market always corrects the markets towards the most rational and the most profitable for everyone solution.
Oh, wait...
Sony, like any other actor in a business system, is simply trying to guess the correct ratio while trying to get as much profits as possible. The systems usually have large margins of tolerance - that is, be it 60/40 or 40/60, the system usually works in both cases and anything in between.
Ah, whatever. What the hell am I doing in a landmark thread discussing economy? Off I go, then.
SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.
It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".
If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price. If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.
This is how real, functioning economies work.
If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy. Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.
It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".
If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price. If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.
This is how real, functioning economies work.
If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy. Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.
If they were happy, what would they complain about ?
I kind of get a laugh out of people when they start talking in % and how one is a fair amount but this other one is, but they never use any real numbers. Without knowing how much someone would actually get paid how do they know how much 40% or 60% is going to be ? How do they know it's an unfair amount ?
Do they even have the talent and skill set required to make something that could be sold ? I don't think this is going to be a get out your crayons and SOE is going to write you a fat chek.
This makes you sound sarcastic, yet the rest of your post actually makes sense. Do you want a government committee (heavily lobbied by Blizzard) to set SOE's royalty rates?
Listen, people, it's all from SOE player studio ( https://player-studio.soe.com/ ) which is available for YEARS. What the hell are you discussing here as if it's something new?
Basic guidelines and link to individual game requirements can be found here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm posting a quote from a popular website showing what you should pay a hairdresser on commission, at the high end the owner is keeping 65%, the low end 40%. Sony has pegged a number that seems on the surface to be within industry standards for commission. A second example is consignment for art or furniture, which take up to 40% + a monthly fee for the amount of space used to show the items.
I am not defending either side, just showing a few examples of how much you can be charged for commission work or by selling through a 3rd party.
"Calculate the percentage you want to use for the commission, which typically ranges between 35 percent and 60 percent, according to "Forbes." Review how much you usually make and your total expenses to help you figure the percentage. Ensure the percentage you offer leaves you enough to cover your bills and make a profit based on your average numbers.
I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?
I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?
I think *from what I read so far* that Landmark will use its own tools however ... well those tools will allow import/export to/from 3D software. F.ex. You wanna make a house. You can go with generic thingies you will get with SOE tools or make stuff in other software > import to SOE stuff and so on. But I might be mistaken. (All of that in reference to Landmark game)
That was my take away, too. It seems like the tool for Landmark gives you prefabs and primitives to build from, which would make sense as it would maintain a much higher level of consistency in appearance and design. This differs from Player Studio, which is more free form and flexible, giving players some basic templates and a very liberal style guide to follow.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by slikeytre Why are they selling your art at such a huge cut? Is this the only place their making any money on the game? I'm thinking 80/20 to be fair. Without people making things they wouldn't get the sale.
Life is a choice: You can choose not to participate and SOE could choose not to have you participate...AT ALL. 40% is more than fair...it's unheard of for a game company to PAY you to play THEIR game. 0% of nothing is nothing....be smart and be happy with 40%.
They are hardly paying you to play their game though are they? They are paying you to help them develop their game. Remember this conversation was about new assets produced outside of landmark with tools like 3ds Max and adobe photoshop.
That said I would think a good texture artist could make a pretty penny selling good and relevant textures (assuming good work isn't flooded out by bad) but I more doubtful about the modellers if landmarks tools are as great as they are made out to be.
If 40% is too low of a cut for your help making the game, you could always go somewhere else and sell your high quality work to someone else for a higher profit margin surely, I dont see the problem here, if I am doing work for someone and they offer me X% and I dont agree I simply decline and dont do the work.
On a more serious note, I cant believe people are expecting this to be some sort of career path, reminds me of the people thinking they were gonna make millions of Diablo 3 RMA.
Originally posted by slikeytre Why are they selling your art at such a huge cut? Is this the only place their making any money on the game? I'm thinking 80/20 to be fair. Without people making things they wouldn't get the sale.
Life is a choice: You can choose not to participate and SOE could choose not to have you participate...AT ALL. 40% is more than fair...it's unheard of for a game company to PAY you to play THEIR game. 0% of nothing is nothing....be smart and be happy with 40%.
They are hardly paying you to play their game though are they? They are paying you to help them develop their game. Remember this conversation was about new assets produced outside of landmark with tools like 3ds Max and adobe photoshop.
That said I would think a good texture artist could make a pretty penny selling good and relevant textures (assuming good work isn't flooded out by bad) but I more doubtful about the modellers if landmarks tools are as great as they are made out to be.
If 40% is too low of a cut for your help making the game, you could always go somewhere else and sell your high quality work to someone else for a higher profit margin surely, I dont see the problem here, if I am doing work for someone and they offer me X% and I dont agree I simply decline and dont do the work.
On a more serious note, I cant believe people are expecting this to be some sort of career path, reminds me of the people thinking they were gonna make millions of Diablo 3 RMA.
You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.
SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.
Are you really saying this is fair?
ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!
Ok.. first of all i don't know if 60% profit margin is a fair share.
But you are completely wrong that SOE does 0% of the work for that money.
- they have to review and verify any content the put into the market
- they deliver a few toolsets (Playerstudio, Landmark)
- they host the market, they host the games, where those content can be used and all those is F2P
With other words it is more than justified that they claim a fee for any player created content(created with their tools) and sold on their platform.. how large this fee should be is a entirely different question.
So wait... people are complaining that if they create something awesome in game during their leisure time & for their own enjoyment, using the tools provided & developed by Sony (for free), they'll only get 40% of the profit if Sony believes it worthy of being sold?
They're essentially offering to handle monetization, publication, and distribution of digital goods created by people for fun, and there's complaining?
You do realize that they could just as easily take & sell it without giving the creator any publicity or monetary compensation, simply by virtue of every asset other than the design itself being the property of SOE, right? Pretty much every EULA contains a statement to that effect, though usually pertaining to the sale of in-game assets outside of the game itself (selling of equipment, in-game currency, accounts, etc.).
Most people would be ecstatic about getting paid to do something they enjoy. Then again, this site doesn't really constitute 'most people', does it?
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Something is better than nothing but 60/40 is totally criminal.. especially when they aren't even providing the tools. I mean this is just other people's proper art.. being exploited.
Normally they pay artists a LOT to make these kind of assets. They just figured out a cheaper (profitable) way of doing it and some idiots are lapping it up like the morons they are.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
some idiots are lapping it up like the morons they are.
It's a free market. If someone is going to upload at that price, you can either match their "offer" or go on another market.
still scams are considered criminal acts, being a free market or not.
and I really think people ehre don't read all the op, the tools you will use are not from sony, possible you will need to buy the program to use (or piracy it with will make most people here hipocrites)
oh well carry on I find funny anyone still thinking EQnext will be any diferent from what we already have and even more to anyone thinking sony have any kind of moral
still scams are considered criminal acts, being a free market or not.
and I really think people ehre don't read all the op, the tools you will use are not from sony, possible you will need to buy the program to use (or piracy it with will make most people here hipocrites)
oh well carry on I find funny anyone still thinking EQnext will be any diferent from what we already have and even more to anyone thinking sony have any kind of moral
I'm not entirely clear on how you can say it's a scam if you get exactly what was agreed. SoE says you get 40% cut, you agree, you get 40% cut. What kind of a world do you live in, if that's a scam?
You're joking right? How many games allow you to actually make money? Barely any of them.
The fact that you get anything at all rather then just sharing it for free is fantastic.
I don't see how anyone could be upset over this.
If anything we should just be upset creations are paid to begin with, but i guess thats the business model.
I completely agree.
Without the game there would be no chance of making any money. A 50/50 split would suggest that both parties brought equal things to the table, whereas in fact it's SOE that is taking ALL of the risk in investing in the game and the player takes none.
Frankly you're all lucky it's not a less even share.
You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.
SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.
Are you really saying this is fair?
ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!
YES THIS IS FAIR, AND YOU ARE 100% WRONG
Soe "SOE does 0%" ????
Oh yeah and who creates and pays the whole infrastructure, the game, the toolsets, the review process, the servers, marketing and basically EVERYTHING around your little hobbyist art asset?
Stop being entitled and learn some financial basics for gods sake. They should give away even less, 1% or nothing.
Comments
This thread is high comedy.
SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.
It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".
If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price. If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.
This is how real, functioning economies work.
If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy. Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.
Indeed! Real economy always works in a system where all the actors are perfectly rational! That's why the Invisible Hand of Free Market always corrects the markets towards the most rational and the most profitable for everyone solution.
Oh, wait...
Sony, like any other actor in a business system, is simply trying to guess the correct ratio while trying to get as much profits as possible. The systems usually have large margins of tolerance - that is, be it 60/40 or 40/60, the system usually works in both cases and anything in between.
Ah, whatever. What the hell am I doing in a landmark thread discussing economy? Off I go, then.
The worst part about it is that after years of pining for player created content, SOE lets them do it and sets it up so they can make money from their contributions...
...and they still aren't happy.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If they were happy, what would they complain about ?
I kind of get a laugh out of people when they start talking in % and how one is a fair amount but this other one is, but they never use any real numbers. Without knowing how much someone would actually get paid how do they know how much 40% or 60% is going to be ? How do they know it's an unfair amount ?
Do they even have the talent and skill set required to make something that could be sold ? I don't think this is going to be a get out your crayons and SOE is going to write you a fat chek.
This makes you sound sarcastic, yet the rest of your post actually makes sense. Do you want a government committee (heavily lobbied by Blizzard) to set SOE's royalty rates?
Yes, you totally did all the work, you coded everything form the ground up.
No, friend. You just used the tools their developers worked on, to create something that you can profit on.
https://player-studio.soe.com/
Basic guidelines and link to individual game requirements can be found here.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm posting a quote from a popular website showing what you should pay a hairdresser on commission, at the high end the owner is keeping 65%, the low end 40%. Sony has pegged a number that seems on the surface to be within industry standards for commission. A second example is consignment for art or furniture, which take up to 40% + a monthly fee for the amount of space used to show the items.
I am not defending either side, just showing a few examples of how much you can be charged for commission work or by selling through a 3rd party.
"Calculate the percentage you want to use for the commission, which typically ranges between 35 percent and 60 percent, according to "Forbes." Review how much you usually make and your total expenses to help you figure the percentage. Ensure the percentage you offer leaves you enough to cover your bills and make a profit based on your average numbers.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/how_12098218_pay-stylists-commission.html#ixzz2kPkDPz3G
I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?
That was my take away, too. It seems like the tool for Landmark gives you prefabs and primitives to build from, which would make sense as it would maintain a much higher level of consistency in appearance and design. This differs from Player Studio, which is more free form and flexible, giving players some basic templates and a very liberal style guide to follow.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If 40% is too low of a cut for your help making the game, you could always go somewhere else and sell your high quality work to someone else for a higher profit margin surely, I dont see the problem here, if I am doing work for someone and they offer me X% and I dont agree I simply decline and dont do the work.
On a more serious note, I cant believe people are expecting this to be some sort of career path, reminds me of the people thinking they were gonna make millions of Diablo 3 RMA.
They did make millions ... of gold
Ok.. first of all i don't know if 60% profit margin is a fair share.
But you are completely wrong that SOE does 0% of the work for that money.
- they have to review and verify any content the put into the market
- they deliver a few toolsets (Playerstudio, Landmark)
- they host the market, they host the games, where those content can be used and all those is F2P
With other words it is more than justified that they claim a fee for any player created content(created with their tools) and sold on their platform.. how large this fee should be is a entirely different question.
So wait... people are complaining that if they create something awesome in game during their leisure time & for their own enjoyment, using the tools provided & developed by Sony (for free), they'll only get 40% of the profit if Sony believes it worthy of being sold?
They're essentially offering to handle monetization, publication, and distribution of digital goods created by people for fun, and there's complaining?
You do realize that they could just as easily take & sell it without giving the creator any publicity or monetary compensation, simply by virtue of every asset other than the design itself being the property of SOE, right? Pretty much every EULA contains a statement to that effect, though usually pertaining to the sale of in-game assets outside of the game itself (selling of equipment, in-game currency, accounts, etc.).
Most people would be ecstatic about getting paid to do something they enjoy. Then again, this site doesn't really constitute 'most people', does it?
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
Something is better than nothing but 60/40 is totally criminal.. especially when they aren't even providing the tools. I mean this is just other people's proper art.. being exploited.
Normally they pay artists a LOT to make these kind of assets. They just figured out a cheaper (profitable) way of doing it and some idiots are lapping it up like the morons they are.
Don't like it, don't upload it.
Modders generally don't get paid at all.
It's a free market. If someone is going to upload at that price, you can either match their "offer" or go on another market.
said the samething that Apraxis said
ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB
still scams are considered criminal acts, being a free market or not.
and I really think people ehre don't read all the op, the tools you will use are not from sony, possible you will need to buy the program to use (or piracy it with will make most people here hipocrites)
oh well carry on I find funny anyone still thinking EQnext will be any diferent from what we already have and even more to anyone thinking sony have any kind of moral
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I'm not entirely clear on how you can say it's a scam if you get exactly what was agreed. SoE says you get 40% cut, you agree, you get 40% cut. What kind of a world do you live in, if that's a scam?
One of the firsts jobs I had I got paid £35 a day. The company I worked for charged me out at £265 a day.
They made a profit of £230 a day.
How dare they!
How dare SOE take 40% of anything I sell in their game and using their tools and their marketplace!!!!
Yes a joke about the situation, but I am pointing a big fat finger at the OP at how pointless and stupid his point is.
I completely agree.
Without the game there would be no chance of making any money. A 50/50 split would suggest that both parties brought equal things to the table, whereas in fact it's SOE that is taking ALL of the risk in investing in the game and the player takes none.
Frankly you're all lucky it's not a less even share.
www.luxarcana.org
YES THIS IS FAIR, AND YOU ARE 100% WRONG
Soe "SOE does 0%" ????
Oh yeah and who creates and pays the whole infrastructure, the game, the toolsets, the review process, the servers, marketing and basically EVERYTHING around your little hobbyist art asset?
Stop being entitled and learn some financial basics for gods sake. They should give away even less, 1% or nothing.