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SOE will sell your Landmark creations and keep 60% of sales.

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  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    how many people plan to buy something that another player created?  isn't the whole point of this game to build your own stuff?

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • allendale5allendale5 kansas city, MOPosts: 124Member

    You introduce an extremely good topic, OP.  My opinion is that it's a very interesting approach to achieving long term involvement from players and modders alike.  It sort of makes me wish that I had the skills to submit one.   As for being fair, I cannot comment because I do not know the programming side of things. 

     

    My concern  with this system is that programmers will need to figure out exactly how Sony monetizes the content that produces the income -- which features attract the most players and at the same time entice players to spend actual real dollars.  Once this strategy materializes and becomes widespread knowledge, I fear that a lot of creativity will be lost at the expense of the drive toward maximizing profit.  

     

    And although I do feel that any player-created content is worth the experiment and at least initially offsets the damages, I would caution Sony to prepare for pervasive abuses of security, content theft, copying, and other infringements that any money makings web based system usually introduce.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Tissmogi

     

    You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

    Is a better deal than their coders get. :shrug:

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • renstarensta Bat-YamPosts: 275Member Uncommon

    WTF..... Id understand if they take 10%-20%.... but 60%??!! this is unexceptable!

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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  • strykr619strykr619 San Diego, CAPosts: 144Member Uncommon

    Clearly lots of ignorant posts in this thread. Most likely its from people who have NO CLUE how good a 40% cut in profit margin is. 

    Then again only in America are you the villain because your a productive tax paying member of society while 20-30% of the population COMPLAINS because they are getting free stuff fast enough. 

  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    As an author, my royalty percentage is far lower than this on books.  If you as artist don't believe 40% is good enough for your fantastic artwork, well, don't sell it then. That's the wonder of the free market.
  • DoomedfoxDoomedfox Elmhurts, NYPosts: 685Member Common

    I do not think it matters if its 40%/10% or 100% you would get from each sell.

    Considering how expansive the programs are you would need its doubtfull that anyone who would not own the programs already anyways ever make a profit and the ones who own this programs already would be stupid to waste there time on this.

    My wife does use some of these programs for her job and considering that she gets paid over 300 bucks a day(which is far less than what some of her coworkers make a day) to use them i just do not  see anyone really being tempted by the 40%.

    However if SOE would give you all programs needed i believe 40% would be more than fair for people who just like to do this kind of stuff as hobby or maybe just are not good enough to make it professional.

  • dandurindandurin Santa Clara, CAPosts: 493Member

    This thread is high comedy.

     

    SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.

     

    It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".

     

    If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price.  If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.

     

    This is how real, functioning economies work.

     

    If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content  for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy.  Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    Indeed! Real economy always works in a system where all the actors are perfectly rational! That's why the Invisible Hand of Free Market always corrects the markets towards the most rational and the most profitable for everyone solution.

     

    Oh, wait...

     

    Sony, like any other actor in a business system, is simply trying to guess the correct ratio while trying to get as much profits as possible. The systems usually have large margins of tolerance - that is, be it 60/40 or 40/60, the system usually works in both cases and anything in between.

     

    Ah, whatever. What the hell am I doing in a landmark thread discussing economy? Off I go, then.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dandurin

    This thread is high comedy.

    SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.

    It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".

    If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price.  If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.

    This is how real, functioning economies work.

    If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content  for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy.  Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.

    The worst part about it is that after years of pining for player created content, SOE lets them do it and sets it up so they can make money from their contributions...

     

    ...and they still aren't happy.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by dandurin

    This thread is high comedy.

    SoE is going to set the royalty ratio at whatever they think is going to generate the highest net profit, factoring in the increase in customer retention that a large item shop generates.

    It has nothing to do with words and phrases like "fair" or "greed" or "software development platforms" or "usury".

    If they price it too high, their production chain will shrivel, forcing them to lower the price.  If producers flood the market, they will raise the price.

    This is how real, functioning economies work.

    If you don't like how real, functioning economies work, you can try developing content  for a game produced in a centrally controlled economy.  Surely there's an awesome Cuban MMO for you.

    The worst part about it is that after years of pining for player created content, SOE lets them do it and sets it up so they can make money from their contributions...

     

    ...and they still aren't happy.

    If they were happy, what would they complain about ?

    I kind of get a laugh out of people when they start talking in % and how one is a fair amount but this other one is, but they never use any real numbers. Without knowing how much someone would actually get paid how do they know how much 40% or 60% is going to be ? How do they know it's an unfair amount ?

    Do they even have the talent and skill set required to make something that could be sold ? I don't think this is going to be a get out your crayons and SOE is going to write you a fat chek.

  • dandurindandurin Santa Clara, CAPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by Grahor

    ..

    Oh, wait...

    ...

     

    This makes you sound sarcastic, yet the rest of your post actually makes sense.  Do you want a government committee (heavily lobbied by Blizzard) to set SOE's royalty rates?

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member
    Listen, people, it's all from SOE player studio ( https://player-studio.soe.com/ ) which is available for YEARS. What the hell are you discussing here as if it's something new?
  • itsTortitsTort San Diego, CAPosts: 128Member
    Originally posted by Tissmogi

     

    You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

    SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

    Are you really saying this is fair?

    ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

    Yes, you totally did all the work, you coded everything form the ground up. 

     

    No, friend. You just used the tools their developers worked on, to create something that you can profit on. 

  • HultayHultay GdanskPosts: 64Member

    I would make it even for free. 60/40 doesnt really effect me in any matter but I got a question.

    Where did you get info about software to be used for asset building?

    What is a polycount for this?

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hultay

    I would make it even for free. 60/40 doesnt really effect me in any matter but I got a question.

    Where did you get info about software to be used for asset building?

    What is a polycount for this?

    https://player-studio.soe.com/

    Basic guidelines and link to individual game requirements can be found here.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • HultayHultay GdanskPosts: 64Member

    Thank you.

    I have also found this: Joe Shoopack answered the question something along this line, "In Landmark, you will use the built-in tools to create. But for EverQuest Next, we will still use traditional 3D methods for creating equipment, items, etc.,"

  • soulmirrorsoulmirror Jax, FLPosts: 112Member

    I'm posting a quote from a popular website showing what you should pay a hairdresser  on commission, at the high end the owner is keeping 65%, the low end 40%.  Sony has pegged a number that seems on the surface to be within industry standards for commission.  A second example is consignment for art or furniture, which take up to 40% + a monthly fee for the amount of space used to show the items.

    I am not defending either side, just showing a few examples of how much you can be charged for commission work or by selling through a 3rd party.

     

    "Calculate the percentage you want to use for the commission, which typically ranges between 35 percent and 60 percent, according to "Forbes." Review how much you usually make and your total expenses to help you figure the percentage. Ensure the percentage you offer leaves you enough to cover your bills and make a profit based on your average numbers.


    Read more: http://www.ehow.com/how_12098218_pay-stylists-commission.html#ixzz2kPkDPz3G

  • DraconixDraconix Hope, ARPosts: 16Member

    I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?

     

     

  • HultayHultay GdanskPosts: 64Member
    Originally posted by Draconix

    I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?

     

     

    I think *from what I read so far* that Landmark will use its own tools however ... well those tools will allow import/export to/from 3D software. F.ex. You wanna make a house. You can go with generic thingies you will get with SOE tools or make stuff in other software > import to SOE stuff and so on. But I might be mistaken. (All of that in reference to Landmark game)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hultay
    Originally posted by Draconix

    I was under the impression when I made something for the marketplace it would be within the game using their tools. After reading the Player Studio FAQ, I feel little mislead. Not sure why but I do. Anyone else under the same impression I had? So whats the point of using Landmark if that's the case?

    I think *from what I read so far* that Landmark will use its own tools however ... well those tools will allow import/export to/from 3D software. F.ex. You wanna make a house. You can go with generic thingies you will get with SOE tools or make stuff in other software > import to SOE stuff and so on. But I might be mistaken. (All of that in reference to Landmark game)

    That was my take away, too. It seems like the tool for Landmark gives you prefabs and primitives to build from, which would make sense as it would maintain a much higher level of consistency in appearance and design. This differs from Player Studio, which is more free form and flexible, giving players some basic templates and a very liberal style guide to follow. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RavenRaven LondonPosts: 1,974Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by slikeytre
    Why are they selling your art at such a huge cut? Is this the only place their making any money on the game?  I'm thinking 80/20 to be fair. Without people making things they wouldn't get the sale.

    Life is a choice: You can choose not to participate and SOE could choose not to have you participate...AT ALL. 40% is more than fair...it's unheard of for a game company to PAY you to play THEIR game. 0% of nothing is nothing....be smart and be happy with 40%.

    They are hardly paying you to play their game though are they? They are paying you to help them develop their game. Remember this conversation was about new assets produced outside of landmark with tools like 3ds Max and adobe photoshop.

     

    That said I would think a good texture artist could make a pretty penny selling good and relevant textures (assuming good work isn't flooded out by bad) but I more doubtful about the modellers if landmarks tools are as great as they are made out to be.

    If 40% is too low of a cut for your help making the game, you could always go somewhere else and sell your high quality work to someone else for a higher profit margin surely, I dont see the problem here, if I am doing work for someone and they offer me X% and I dont agree I simply decline and dont do the work. 

     

    On a more serious note, I cant believe people are expecting this to be some sort of career path, reminds me of the people thinking they were gonna make millions of Diablo 3 RMA. 

    image

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Raven
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by slikeytre
    Why are they selling your art at such a huge cut? Is this the only place their making any money on the game?  I'm thinking 80/20 to be fair. Without people making things they wouldn't get the sale.

    Life is a choice: You can choose not to participate and SOE could choose not to have you participate...AT ALL. 40% is more than fair...it's unheard of for a game company to PAY you to play THEIR game. 0% of nothing is nothing....be smart and be happy with 40%.

    They are hardly paying you to play their game though are they? They are paying you to help them develop their game. Remember this conversation was about new assets produced outside of landmark with tools like 3ds Max and adobe photoshop.

     

    That said I would think a good texture artist could make a pretty penny selling good and relevant textures (assuming good work isn't flooded out by bad) but I more doubtful about the modellers if landmarks tools are as great as they are made out to be.

    If 40% is too low of a cut for your help making the game, you could always go somewhere else and sell your high quality work to someone else for a higher profit margin surely, I dont see the problem here, if I am doing work for someone and they offer me X% and I dont agree I simply decline and dont do the work. 

     

    On a more serious note, I cant believe people are expecting this to be some sort of career path, reminds me of the people thinking they were gonna make millions of Diablo 3 RMA. 

    They did make millions ... of gold :D

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tissmogi

     

    You are doing 100% of the work creating content, you get 40% of the sales.

    SOE does 0% of the work and gets 60% of the sales.

    Are you really saying this is fair?

    ANY other real money auction house where you sell to other players has a tax of around 10-15% not 60% SIXTY!

    Ok.. first of all i don't know if  60% profit margin is a fair share.

    But you are completely wrong that SOE does 0% of the work for that money.

    - they have to review and verify any content the put into the market

    - they deliver a few toolsets (Playerstudio, Landmark)

    - they host the market, they host the games, where those content can be used and all those is F2P

     

    With other words it is more than justified that they claim a fee for any player created content(created with their tools) and sold on their platform.. how large this fee should be is a entirely different question.

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 878Member Uncommon

    So wait... people are complaining that if they create something awesome in game during their leisure time &  for their own enjoyment, using the tools provided & developed by Sony (for free), they'll only get 40% of the profit if Sony believes it worthy of being sold?

    They're essentially offering to handle monetization, publication, and distribution of digital goods created by people for fun, and there's complaining?

    You do realize that they could just as easily take & sell it without giving the creator any publicity or monetary compensation, simply by virtue of every asset other than the design itself being the property of SOE, right? Pretty much every EULA contains a statement to that effect, though usually pertaining to the sale of in-game assets outside of the game itself (selling of equipment, in-game currency, accounts, etc.).

    Most people would be ecstatic about getting paid to do something they enjoy. Then again, this site doesn't really constitute 'most people', does it?

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

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