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Definition of a Hardcore Gamer?

RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon

As I read these forums on an almost daily basis I constantly see conversations based around casual gamers versus hardcore gamers and it always tends to come up with argument based on difficulty, etc.  I did some searching on the internet and I found a pretty good definition for a lot of these people.

Definition:  Hardcore Gamer.

A very vocal, arrogant minority of gamers that assume that the gaming industry revolves (or should revolve) around them. 

Consider their own skills, and preferences and, those of their peers, to be the only acceptable use of a recreational medium. 

Often use the term "True Gamer". An arrogant, idiotic term invented by insecure people to justify their own gaming style. 

The irony is, the gaming industry was born from the notion, that these are games, pinball dating back as far as the 40's was designed for people to relax and enjoy.  Pong brought it home, followed by other game systems that were designed for fun and recreation. 


However, like all hobbies, there will always be those "stop having fun guys" that ruin it for everyone else.

People who feel that the industry belongs to them. 

People who fail to realize that there will always be a place for them but really just want it all. If casual players get their way the whole industry will collapse and the world will end. 


People who adopted the medium as their own and decided that they were the only ones worthy. 

Refuse to accept that, like board games, video games are made to be enjoyed.

Hardcore gamers are no less ridiculous than a "pin the tail on the donkey" elitist, who shows up to a birthday party with their own pins and blindfold, won't shut up about you're "spinning all wrong" then looks shocked, as to why the rest of the guests find them socially repulsive. 

Hardcore gamers are generally cliquish, rude, snide and belligerent. 
When they aren't attacking casuals, they're attacking each other for the same reasons.

"Yeah you beat that boss but, I did it without using half my abilities, blindfolded, with no healing items, on hardcore extreme killer blood-hell mode!" 

This comes from a culture where sarcasm is way more important than ideas. 

To be hardcore, a game pretty much needs to be "difficult". 
That's all hardcore games really are. Tedious and long, and dragged out and hard. 
Because the life of a hardcore gamer generally isn't very taxing, they can turn to games to "challenge" them. 

Often times they'll wax on about how casual gamers are gradually killing the market, while ignoring the fact that the market has always had room for both players and, that some people have a life to kick their ass. That, when they sit down to play a video game, it's not so damn important that a player needs to turn it into some perfectionist job you don't get payed for. 

That maybe, a person who doesn't piss away 90% of their time being dedicated to a single game or genre of game have just as much right to play and enjoy those titles as the next person.

 

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Comments

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member
    Way #7645 to start a fight : Say on a community forum there's "something wrong" with the more involved participants.
  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,574Member Uncommon

    IMO Hardcore has nothing to do with difficulty/skill or challenge. You can be a casual gamer and be very skilled.

    Hardcore IMO is to do with intensity.

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  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon

    This isn't about people who put more time into a game in comparison to the average person.  This is exactly what it says.  The people who refer to themselves as 'hardcore' gamers or true gamers when bringing about an argument against 'casuals' or about how they're ruining the gaming scene.  I don't care if you spend 1 hour in game in a month or 100 hours.  That isn't the point.

    This post is referencing people who use these terms to reinforce their arguments brought against developers who are either "catering" to the casuals or "casual" players themselves.

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by immodium

    IMO Hardcore has nothing to do with difficulty/skill or challenge. You can be a casual gamer and be very skilled.

    Hardcore IMO is to do with intensity.

    I agree entirely.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon

    From a rational position without emotional bias, hardcore is about a higher level of investment.

    A hardcore player will invest more time and/or effort into whatever game -  and a casual player will invest less time and/or effort.

    There's no inherent skill level involved with being hardcore - though obviously there's a greater chance of being good at something if you dedicate yourself to it.

    Also, if you look at the top players of any established competitive game - you'll find hardcore players, not casual players.

    There's nothing right or wrong about being hardcore or casual - it's all about how much you care about gaming.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    "Hardcore" means whatever you want it to mean. For some it will be a negatrive term, for others it will be positive.

     

    It's a purely subjective term, so just as slippery to define as "casual" or "grind" or "sandbox" or even "fun".

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DKLond

    From a rational position without emotional bias, hardcore is about a higher level of investment.

    A hardcore player will invest more time and/or effort into whatever game -  and a casual player will invest less time and/or effort.

    There's no inherent skill level involved with being hardcore - though obviously there's a greater chance of being good at something if you dedicate yourself to it.

    Also, if you look at the top players of any established competitive game - you'll find hardcore players, not casual players.

    There's nothing right or wrong about being hardcore or casual - it's all about how much you care about gaming.

    You're right but that's more or less what happens if you dedicate yourself to anything such as a trade skill or a particular job in real life.  I'm not trying to argue about time or effort put into a game.  By all accounts I'd be classified as a "hardcore" gamer just on time spent playing games alone.  I'm just talking about those that go out of their way to attack or insult other players because of some of the reasons stated above.  Like I said before, I don't care about the time you put in.  This is more about the bile that a lot of these types of players spew out right after making the claim that they're hardcore or a true gamer and proceed to blame developers or casual players for them not having a game that suits their needs directly.

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    I feel like what extremes one is willing to endure and the sacrifices they make for the sake of games is what makes one hardcore. Did you spend more time gaming than working this week? Did you spend no time at all with your family? Do you claim disability or unemployment so you can game more? Did you pay no attention to your kids or others in need because you wanted to game more? Did you stay up 24 hours straight gaming? Did you spend your entire paycheck on item malls virtual goods?
  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    Originally posted by DKLond

    From a rational position without emotional bias, hardcore is about a higher level of investment.

    A hardcore player will invest more time and/or effort into whatever game -  and a casual player will invest less time and/or effort.

    There's no inherent skill level involved with being hardcore - though obviously there's a greater chance of being good at something if you dedicate yourself to it.

    Also, if you look at the top players of any established competitive game - you'll find hardcore players, not casual players.

    There's nothing right or wrong about being hardcore or casual - it's all about how much you care about gaming.

    You're right but that's more or less what happens if you dedicate yourself to anything such as a trade skill or a particular job in real life.  I'm not trying to argue about time or effort put into a game.  By all accounts I'd be classified as a "hardcore" gamer just on time spent playing games alone.  I'm just talking about those that go out of their way to attack or insult other players because of some of the reasons stated above.  Like I said before, I don't care about the time you put in.  This more about the bile that a lot of these types of players spew out right after making the claim that they're hardcore or a true gamer and proceed to blame developers or casual players for them not having a game that suits their needs directly.

    I don't see any rational connection between being intolerant or impolite and being hardcore.

    I've been a very, very hardcore gamer in the past - but I never expected or demanded that the people I played with felt the same way about the game. I never understood why people who dedicate themselves to something expect others to follow suit - but I certainly never felt that was reasonable.

    I prefer to stick to using words in the way they make the most sense to me, and not attach irrational stigma because some people don't understand the original meaning of the words they use to elevate their own position.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    But the Hardcore Casual War essentially ended a half dozen years back; and people need to stop attempting to relaunch it.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon

    I'm not saying that this definition can apply to EVERY gamer out there who considers themselves to be 'hardcore'.  However I do find that when I look at forums I always see/read arguments about how there isn't enough challenge in games or that they're catering to the casuals.  I don't think I've ever actually seen a post that reads something along the lines of:  "I'm a casual gamer and you hardcore people are ruining gaming."  However I do believe that statement to be true and pertain to a very select subset of people who are a part of the 'hardcore' community.  In the poll I selected some as well because just browsing the forums and reading a number of topics/complaints when it comes to MMOs you'll see that said subset of people spewing that type of bile and blaming everybody under the sun as to why there isn't enough challenge in games anymore and why they're a special snowflake and deserve better then the "drivel" that the companies are producing these days for the "casuals".

     

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member

    This is actual footage of day 2 after release of Wild World Hammer of Never-Ever Guild Scrolls Age. Three hardcore players invade the casual city's castle. As you can see, the female toon has already looted the unique artifact relic, deputy star of primordial badassery. Shortly after the encounter, a guy who said he really didn't want to be hardcore tricked the three into becoming casual and hacked their accounts.

     

    I voted "some are like that".

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith

    However I do find that when I look at forums I always see/read arguments about how there isn't enough challenge in games or that they're catering to the casuals.

    So deal with them within the threads they are made.

    Don't smear the shite across the forums with Bold New (yawn) Threads.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridrith

    I'm not saying that this definition can apply to EVERY gamer out there who considers themselves to be 'hardcore'.  However I do find that when I look at forums I always see/read arguments about how there isn't enough challenge in games or that they're catering to the casuals.  I don't think I've ever actually seen a post that reads something along the lines of:  "I'm a casual gamer and you hardcore people are ruining gaming."  However I do believe that statement to be true and pertain to a very select subset of people who are a part of the 'hardcore' community.  In the poll I selected some as well because just browsing the forums and reading a number of topics/complaints when it comes to MMOs you'll see that said subset of people spewing that type of bile and blaming everybody under the sun as to why there isn't enough challenge in games anymore and why they're a special snowflake and deserve better then the "drivel" that the companies are producing these days for the "casuals".

     

    You need to separate what people say about themselves from what people are.

    First of all, just because there's a vocal minority who considers itself "hardcore" - doesn't mean they represent the majority or the norm.

    Also, since casual gamers and hardcore gamers DO tend to have different levels of tolerance for challenge and time-consuming gameplay - it's very reasonable that both groups are detrimental to each other.

    However, there's no arguing that casuals have much more power than hardcore gamers, simply because there are many, many more casual gamers than hardcore gamers.

    Personally, I don't believe I - as a hardcore gamer - have a "right" to a hardcore game. I don't feel entitled to anything like that - but I certainly lament that the AAA segment of the gaming industry has all but abandoned the hardcore segment of their audience.

    But it's only natural in a capitalistic society - and it seems most people prefer capitalism, so what can you do.

    But, if you're a casual gamer, I suggest being happy that the people with the money to finance the larger productions are targeting YOU before they target the smaller group known as hardcore gamers.

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.  At the very least I think it should be discussed as to why this type of behavior is so prevalent other then the fact that you can be a internet tough guy whilst still being anonymous.  I'm constantly curious as to why these two groups are constantly at odds with each other despite their preferences and time commitments to a game.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.

    Thank you, your opinion is noted. Sounds familiar from the mirror argument.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.

    Wait, didn't you just get done pigeon-holing and flaming the hardcores...

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Hardcore gamers fly drones with hellfire missiles, in Pakistan. What you're defining isn't hardcore it's douchebag. Douchebags can be "casual" gamers too.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mattatron
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.

    Wait, didn't you just get done pigeon-holing and flaming the hardcores...

    No.

    For starters:  The main objective of the post is to generate discussion on the type of behavior and comments that players make.  Players who generally refer to themselves as true gamers or hardcore gamers and using it as an argument to attack 'casuals' or developers for catering to said 'casuals'.

     

    If I'm flaming or piegon-holing anybody it's the players who go out of their way to attack others based on their gaming preferences.  I'm talking about how they act.  I don't care what game they play.  I don't care how much time they dedicate to said game.

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Hardcore gamers fly drones with hellfire missiles, in Pakistan. What you're defining isn't hardcore it's douchebag. Douchebags can be "casual" gamers too.

    Douchebag is probably the best term.  I just consider everybody who plays games to be gamers.  So of course there's going to be douchebags, it just so happens that a lot of douchebags generally tend to refer to themselves as hardcore.

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Hardcore gamers fly drones with hellfire missiles, in Pakistan. What you're defining isn't hardcore it's douchebag. Douchebags can be "casual" gamers too.

    Douchebag is probably the best term.  I just consider everybody who plays games to be gamers.  So of course there's going to be douchebags, it just so happens that a lot of douchebags generally tend to refer to themselves as hardcore.

    Am I "one of the good ones", massa?

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.  At the very least I think it should be discussed as to why this type of behavior is so prevalent other then the fact that you can be a internet tough guy whilst still being anonymous.  I'm constantly curious as to why these two groups are constantly at odds with each other despite their preferences and time commitments to a game.

     So try to shame people, using the same behavior you are coming out against? 

  • DKLondDKLond AlbertslundPosts: 579Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.  At the very least I think it should be discussed as to why this type of behavior is so prevalent other then the fact that you can be a internet tough guy whilst still being anonymous.  I'm constantly curious as to why these two groups are constantly at odds with each other despite their preferences and time commitments to a game.

    The discussion is fine - but you have to consider whether you're approaching it from the right angle.

    Instead of using concepts like hardcore and casual - consider that being unreasonable and intolerant is a widespread feature of human nature.

    The two concepts in question have nothing to do with intolerance or insults.

    If you want to understand this, you should think about what happens when two entirely different mindsets are forced to co-exist in the same universe.

    MMORPG started out as a hardcore genre (MUDS, UO and EQ were hardly casual games) and WoW introduced it to the casual audience. After WoW, the standards of the genre changed significantly to cater to the new and much larger audience.

    Why do you think that "hardcore" people who're very vocal and feel entitled might have a problem with the people who are at the source of change?

    It's the exact same issue as racism and all the other kinds of intolerance you see around the world. People - in general - don't feel like sharing if it means missing out on something and they don't appreciate having things taken away that they consider THEIR things.

     

  • MattatronMattatron Dunlap, ILPosts: 226Member
    Originally posted by Ridrith

    Definition:  Hardcore Gamer.

    ... arrogant, idiotic ...

    People who feel that the industry belongs to them. 

    Hardcore gamers are no less ridiculous than a "pin the tail on the donkey" elitist, who shows up to a birthday party with their own pins and blindfold, won't shut up about you're "spinning all wrong" then looks shocked, as to why the rest of the guests find them socially repulsive. 

    Hardcore gamers are generally cliquish, rude, snide and belligerent. 
    When they aren't attacking casuals, they're attacking each other for the same reasons.

    Because the life of a hardcore gamer generally isn't very taxing, they can turn to games to "challenge" them. 

    Often times they'll wax on ... that some people have a life
    ...

     

    You're insane if you think you can backpedal out from this. Half of your op is "hardcore players are bad, bad, bad".

    "What I meant was..." 

    ...no. You're on about something, but I don't think it's in this thread right now.

  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DKLond
    Originally posted by Ridrith
    It's a discussion that warrants consideration in my opinion.  These types of people and this kind of behavior is a blight on our communities.  If you need to insult a person's gaming preference, you're the one that needs to stop playing and take some time to yourself.  It should be shamed.  At the very least I think it should be discussed as to why this type of behavior is so prevalent other then the fact that you can be a internet tough guy whilst still being anonymous.  I'm constantly curious as to why these two groups are constantly at odds with each other despite their preferences and time commitments to a game.

    The discussion is fine - but you have to consider whether you're approaching it from the right angle.

    Instead of using concepts like hardcore and casual - consider that being unreasonable and intolerant is a widespread feature of human nature.

    The two concepts in question have nothing to do with intolerance or insults.

    If you want to understand this, you should think about what happens when two entirely different mindsets are forced to co-exist in the same universe.

    MMORPG started out as a hardcore genre (MUDS, UO and EQ were hardly casual games) and WoW introduced it to the casual audience. After WoW, the standards of the genre changed significantly to cater to the new and much larger audience.

    Why do you think that "hardcore" people who're very vocal and feel entitled might have a problem with the people who are at the source of change?

    It's the exact same issue as racism and all the other kinds of intolerance you see around the world. People - in general - don't feel like sharing if it means missing out on something and they don't appreciate having things taken away that they consider THEIR things.

     

    You're correct.  I never take into account that we humans are fickle and mostly terrible.  I think it's because it's a game.  Intolerance towards racism  I understand because that is a very real problem.  But isn't it much easier to see that both types of players will always have a place?  The hardcore game might always shift towards a more casual route at some point in the future but it's not like the 'hardcore' gamers won't have another game to go to afterwards.  It's simply hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that players are willing to go out of their way to attack and blame others because they don't share their preferences of playing a game.

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