You might as well get used to these threads. I started playing EvE back in 2003 and they were just as prevalent then. Here's what the OP needs to get....CCP makes it clear what they consider to be harrassment and griefing....and what is not.
Example one: I'm in a .8 system mining Kernite in my retriever. Evil pirate shows up, targets me, scrams me/webs me...and then proceeds to blow up my ship. Concorde intercedes and destroys his ship. I got back to station in pod, retrieve hauler. I jump back to belt and pick up my belongings. This is gameplay as intended. Your butthurt feelings, your filing a griefing report...all of it will be ignored and posting such things lead to threads like this.
Example two: I'm in .8 system mining trit in my osprey. Evil pirate shows up and blows up my ship. I then go back to station, retrieve my hauler and evil pirates friends destroy the hauler, my egg and all my life's possessions. I awake in a new clone and file a grieving ticket...this will also be ignored as this is normal gameplay.
Example three: I am flying to Jita to put all my pretty shines on the market in 4-4 when after aligning to a gate in a .7 system...two mean ships decloak and blow me up. Their friends collect all my surviving loot, they destroy my egg. After awakening in my new clone, the mean people then wardec my brand new corp that my friends and I just started. Over the next three weeks, they find us mining, mission running in our PvE/mining ships and blow us up. I file a grief ticket with CCP and make 17 posts on various forums...nothing good results. This is normal game play and CCP thanks you for understanding.
Example four: I am flying through ONE low security system to meet my friends for the mining op. Upon decloaking/aligning I notice all these flashing red players around me scramming/webbing me. They ask me to join their TS/Vent channel and sing my country's national anthem or recite a haiku poem of their request. I am angry, but do it. They then release my ship, and I go on my way. I tell my friends upon arrival and they encourage me to file a griefing ticket. I do. Nothing happens. Game play as intended.
Example five: I am undocking in Amarr Prime and a player tells me that I can double my money if I send him 10 mil isk. I do. He PM's me and gives me 20 mil isk. I then send him 100 mil and he never returns my isk, nor returns my PM's. I then file a grief report. CCP then tells me this is allowed under normal gameplay. Choose whom you give isk to more closely next time.
Example six: I am flying to my destination from my level 4 agent to do my mission. Upon arrival, two evil players blow up my ship. I ask in local why they did that. They tell me that i'm a "d-bag" and I deserve to lose that raven. I ask why. They then tell me that my name sounds "gay" and all "gay people should die". I then file a grief ticket. CCP then bans their accounts. That is griefing and they are what makes the rest of EvE look bad. If they want to say that crap, they should never say it in local or in a pm. All convo's are recorded in game, via logs. If you can produce this log, said player will be reprimanded.
This is what separates pirates from griefers, in the eyes of CCP. I can kill you anywhere, I can declare war on you/your corp for no apparent reason. I can do alot of things. I can not belittle you in chat. I can not post threads about killing, scamming, whatever b/c of your race, sexual orientation, etc.
If people understood these things, these type of posts would disappear.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say so far. So many people have a flawed understanding that all forms of PVP are open, and non consensual everywhere. It's no different than trying to play CoD or Dota and complain that people keep killing you. That's what the game is for. Those people aren't there to ruin your day, they are not there to be assholes, EvE is simply an open world survival game with lots of side activities to do - it is not a theme park game where you do what you want with no risks and then queue up for an arena everytime you want some PVP. So many people are used to PVE and PVP being mutually excusive in other games that they find the idea of an integrated world to be shocking and appaling, when in fact, it is EXACTLY what the game is about.
Is that one of the "I can't prove it but that doesn't mean it's not true" things that are popping up around here?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agreed. Worst community ever. Also best community if you find a group that would grow to be your brothers from another mother. EVE is unlike any other game on both sides.
Still griefer paradise and devs actually encourage theft and griefing.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
I've played EVE off and on for the last 5 years, and the community is always the main reason I leave.
Even if youre a PvE player, wanting to do nothing but missions and mining, you will still never find any peace. There are far too many scumbags ready to ruin your day, and they call it fun.
In EVE, griefing IS the end game
That is what it is in every Open World PvP games. WoW on PvP servers are the exact same thing, DF, Washu, you name it, this is how it's gonna be. If you are a carebear then games like EVE are something one should avoid plain and simple. Griefing is end game for SOME. People always remember the few isolated bad experiences/interactions with players and quickly forget the good one even though they by far outnumber the bad ones.
EVE is a unique beast but I have to say the community and teamwork is something that MMOs in general lack. Too much MMOs cater toward solo casual players and games like EVE one has to be part of a team if they want to get into the highest rewarding content.
One can easily do mining and missions solo without much threat in high sec, however if you wanting the higher end materials then encountering PC pirates in low-null sec is the risk you take and how it should be.
I've played EVE off and on for the last 5 years, and the community is always the main reason I leave.
Even if youre a PvE player, wanting to do nothing but missions and mining, you will still never find any peace. There are far too many scumbags ready to ruin your day, and they call it fun.
In EVE, griefing IS the end game
That is what it is in every Open World PvP games. WoW on PvP servers are the exact same thing, DF, Washu, you name it, this is how it's gonna be. If you are a carebear then games like EVE are something one should avoid plain and simple. Griefing is end game for SOME. People always remember the few isolated bad experiences/interactions with players and quickly forget the good one even though they by far outnumber the bad ones.
EVE is a unique beast but I have to say the community and teamwork is something that MMOs in general lack. Too much MMOs cater toward solo casual players and games like EVE one has to be part of a team if they want to get into the highest rewarding content.
One can easily do mining and missions solo without much threat in high sec, however if you wanting the higher end materials then encountering PC pirates in low-null sec is the risk you take and how it should be.
Wow and their kind are worse than eve.
I can't remember how many times my toons where killed in wow or swtor or some dude blocked access to a clickable or some dude stole my kill, etc.
I can count on one hand how many times some PC in eve has tried something and it's never worked out for them.
As a PVE player I can control eve PKers by taking precautions that i can't take in wow.
High sec is, in general very risk free if you're not flying something atrociously valuable. Of course, there are those exceptions when a ganker is bored but the chance is still minimal, to the point where several people have played for years and were never once suicide ganked.
The community of this game absolutely appalls me. The amount of griefing and harrassment that goes on in this game these days is absolutely disgusting.
I'm a 4 year vet in the game yet I feel the overwhelming amount of idiots in the game is finally breaking me down. The fckery is rampant and completely unchecked.
flying low sec i guess?
but that's the idea of open world pvp. find a crew to guard you, and make em pay if they attack you. or... dont be attacked
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Originally posted by Caldicot EVE is a game where relations between players and trust really matters, which makes the social aspect truly amazing compared to other mmos.
Yep so true. There is always the possibility that someone you've been talking to for a year, that's been your friend, will suddenly stab you in the back and take you for all that you got. That's why trusting someone in a game where the first rule is to trust no one actually means something. The relationships you form within the community are worth something. Which is why you can find really, really good parts within that community.
I've played EVE off and on for the last 5 years, and the community is always the main reason I leave.
Even if youre a PvE player, wanting to do nothing but missions and mining, you will still never find any peace. There are far too many scumbags ready to ruin your day, and they call it fun.
In EVE, griefing IS the end game
What part of this has to do with the community? The community is the help you can get, the bonds you make, the ability to get together when it matters, the creativity and the support. You have a lot of players dedicating their entire play time to helping others, buidling large corporations around this idea. You got players making increadible 3rd part tools. You got a community that influence the game. You got a game where you have to collaborate on an increadible scale to make stuff happen, and people do.
And since when is Eve a pve game? If you do missions, transport goods, mine you have a plan, eyes and friends. You are taking risks. Carebearing is always risk vs return. The risk isn't some freaking NPC. The risk is other players. If you got something of value people will try to take it from you. That is the game as a carebear. This you should have understood your first week. If you don't like other people being able to destroy something for you and to kill you... then it's really, really obvious that this isn't your game. It's eve. You are going to die.
I've played EVE off and on for the last 5 years, and the community is always the main reason I leave.
Even if youre a PvE player, wanting to do nothing but missions and mining, you will still never find any peace. There are far too many scumbags ready to ruin your day, and they call it fun.
In EVE, griefing IS the end game
What part of this has to do with the community? The community is the help you can get, the bonds you make, the ability to get together when it matters, the creativity and the support. You have a lot of players dedicating their entire play time to helping others, buidling large corporations around this idea. You got players making increadible 3rd part tools. You got a community that influence the game. You got a game where you have to collaborate on an increadible scale to make stuff happen, and people do.
And since when is Eve a pve game? If you do missions, transport goods, mine you have a plan, eyes and friends. You are taking risks. Carebearing is always risk vs return. The risk isn't some freaking NPC. The risk is other players. If you got something of value people will try to take it from you. That is the game as a carebear. This you should have understood your first week. If you don't like other people being able to destroy something for you and to kill you... then it's really, really obvious that this isn't your game. It's eve. You are going to die.
Dont be too harsh, Adalwolf just doesnt understand Eve, where even mining asteroids for ores can involve PVP, from other miners oddly enough, or from those trying to influence the price of ores on the market by 'creating' a shortage in supply, asteroids are a 'finite' resource after all, once a belt is empty, its empty till the next respawn, if a corporation is mining that area and another corporation moves in and also starts mining, that can cause friction, at which point, one of the mining corps can declare war on the other, or as happens more often, they pay another corp, to do so, this isnt end game in any way though, its just business, its not griefing, its just business, when a high sec pos in a good position is attacked and destroyed, so another corp can put up a pos and sell it, its not personal, it's just 'business'
Its all part and parcel of the 'steep learning curve' thats associated with Eve Online, some learn, some don't, its just Eve.
MMORPGs certainly do attract certain groups, but nobody has funded research to find out exactly what grouips they are (beyond being predominantly male with a mean age of 27 years and rising).
The most hardcore players are unemployed, for one reason or another. One of the reasons for being unemployed is having an unpleasant character.
The community of this game absolutely appalls me. The amount of griefing and harrassment that goes on in this game these days is absolutely disgusting.
I'm a 4 year vet in the game yet I feel the overwhelming amount of idiots in the game is finally breaking me down. The fckery is rampant and completely unchecked.
I have never played Eve, but my personal belief is that unfortunately when you allow complete free-for-all PvP, it tends to bring out the very worst in any community. Don't get me wrong here, I love me some PvP, but as far as I'm concerned PvP should involve level or power restrictions. I've said before that if you're going to call yourself a PvPer, then you need to do so whilst fighting against players who actually have a shot at killing you. No, not everyone in an FFA PvP game is a griefer/ganker, but boy they sure do come out of the woodwork in those environments.
That being said, I'm fairly certain that anyone who is playing Eve understands what sort of gameplay environment they're entering into before they even log on for the first time. And considering how much control players have over sandbox games like Eve, there's probably zero point in complaining about whatever griefing is going on. As for myself, this is precisely why I don't play this type of game; I can't trust a player base to police itself properly, regardless of what game it's part of.
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
The community of this game absolutely appalls me. The amount of griefing and harrassment that goes on in this game these days is absolutely disgusting.
I'm a 4 year vet in the game yet I feel the overwhelming amount of idiots in the game is finally breaking me down. The fckery is rampant and completely unchecked.
You have not played World of Warcraft yet.
Joining in with the community listing:
Tera EU at original launch - saturated with toxic comments. The most unhelpful community I have ever experienced.
Best community (and the reason I quoted your reply) - Wow by a long way, but this was from a few years back. But does that just show communities in general where better years ago?
MMORPGs certainly do attract certain groups, but nobody has funded research to find out exactly what grouips they are (beyond being predominantly male with a mean age of 27 years and rising).
The most hardcore players are unemployed, for one reason or another. One of the reasons for being unemployed is having an unpleasant character.
Can you link to a source for that?
I'm curious what you were basing that statement about EVE players on, especially since in other threads you have stated that doing well in EVE requires not just time but time spent making connections and learning how to use their ships and skills - traits that don't seem to be common in the laxadaiscally unemployed gamer.
My experiences with the more invested EVE players (yes, entirely anecdotal) have been the exact opposite. Most of the ones I've met seem to be doing rather well for themselves. Here's a link to a few and what they do in real life: clicky Again, it's all anecdotal, so I'm interested in insight into how you arrived at your conclusion. To be clear, I'm not referring to the crazy leap of logic you infer in the sentence at the end of your post, but the conclusion that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That game has nothing on this site and it's community. Eve at least has large groups of people all working together for a common goal...enjoyment of the game.
MMORPGs certainly do attract certain groups, but nobody has funded research to find out exactly what grouips they are (beyond being predominantly male with a mean age of 27 years and rising).
The most hardcore players are unemployed, for one reason or another. One of the reasons for being unemployed is having an unpleasant character.
Can you link to a source for that?
I'm curious what you were basing that statement about EVE players on, especially since in other threads you have stated that doing well in EVE requires not just time but time spent making connections and learning how to use their ships and skills - traits that don't seem to be common in the laxadaiscally unemployed gamer.
My experiences with the more invested EVE players (yes, entirely anecdotal) have been the exact opposite. Most of the ones I've met seem to be doing rather well for themselves. Here's a link to a few and what they do in real life: clicky Again, it's all anecdotal, so I'm interested in insight into how you arrived at your conclusion. To be clear, I'm not referring to the crazy leap of logic you infer in the sentence at the end of your post, but the conclusion that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed.
If the definition of hardcore is 'spends an extraordinary amount of time playing EVE' (say 8, 10, 12 or even more hours a day), then it might be a pretty fair assumption that said person isn't holding down a full time job. (but same would be said about any MMO really).
Why are they not employed? Well, many I've met are students, on a break or just slacking off when they shouldn't be. Some were actually retired, and they had plenty of free time. Some actually were just plain wealthy in their own rights, for one reason or another (inheritance, legal judgement), some were handicapped and unable to work.
And yes, some were just in a period of unemployment. Some were even paid by their corps to run them and it was their job to play EVE. (Don't laugh, I once met a player in WOW who's guild paid him about four hundred dollars a month to tank for them on a nightly basis, 4 days a week or so.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMORPGs certainly do attract certain groups, but nobody has funded research to find out exactly what grouips they are (beyond being predominantly male with a mean age of 27 years and rising).
The most hardcore players are unemployed, for one reason or another. One of the reasons for being unemployed is having an unpleasant character.
Can you link to a source for that?
I'm curious what you were basing that statement about EVE players on, especially since in other threads you have stated that doing well in EVE requires not just time but time spent making connections and learning how to use their ships and skills - traits that don't seem to be common in the laxadaiscally unemployed gamer.
My experiences with the more invested EVE players (yes, entirely anecdotal) have been the exact opposite. Most of the ones I've met seem to be doing rather well for themselves. Here's a link to a few and what they do in real life: clicky Again, it's all anecdotal, so I'm interested in insight into how you arrived at your conclusion. To be clear, I'm not referring to the crazy leap of logic you infer in the sentence at the end of your post, but the conclusion that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed.
If the definition of hardcore is 'spends an extraordinary amount of time playing EVE' (say 8, 10, 12 or even more hours a day), then it might be a pretty fair assumption that said person isn't holding down a full time job. (but same would be said about any MMO really).
Why are they not employed? Well, many I've met are students, on a break or just slacking off when they shouldn't be. Some were actually retired, and they had plenty of free time. Some actually were just plain wealthy in their own rights, for one reason or another (inheritance, legal judgement), some were handicapped and unable to work.
And yes, some were just in a period of unemployment. Some were even paid by their corps to run them and it was their job to play EVE. (Don't laugh, I once met a player in WOW who's guild paid him about four hundred dollars a month to tank for them on a nightly basis, 4 days a week or so.)
I didn't ask why people might be unemployed, as I understand the cause for that and it's also not really a topic for this thread (or even these forums, really). I asked why he felt that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed. If it's just an assumption, fair enough. He stated it as if it was fact, so I was interested in what led him to that conclusion.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The community of this game absolutely appalls me. The amount of griefing and harrassment that goes on in this game these days is absolutely disgusting.
I'm a 4 year vet in the game yet I feel the overwhelming amount of idiots in the game is finally breaking me down. The fckery is rampant and completely unchecked.
Seems you have been hanging out with the wrong people then. It did take you 4 years to notice however.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It has to do with the shit kids that are growing up today.
The times are moving forward, technology is moving forward.
Many people spend A LOT of their time on the internet now instead of face to face with friends in real life.
That seriously change peoples attitude, how they behave and so on.
You know how you can tell that someone grew old? They say things like "kids these days"...and old people have been doing all the way back to Hesiod almost 3,000 years ago. So either society has been in a constant state of decline or old people need to get a life so they something to look forward to again and stop looking to the past as being "better".
And no, old has nothing to do with age, its a mindset.
Society is in decline. But that's a different subject and started in the late 60's.
I didn't ask why people might be unemployed, as I understand the cause for that and it's also not really a topic for this thread (or even these forums, really). I asked why he felt that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed. If it's just an assumption, fair enough. He stated it as if it was fact, so I was interested in what led him to that conclusion.
Well, I should have been more clear, if we define hardcore as someone who plays a large number of hours a day, then yes, those EVE players are likely to be unemployed.
I've often asked people who spent 10+ hrs a day in a MMORPG what they did for a living (trying to figure out how I could pull it off) and shared the answers that I received hence my belief most hard core MMO players are in fact, unemployed.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The community of this game absolutely appalls me. The amount of griefing and harrassment that goes on in this game these days is absolutely disgusting.
On the contrary, and quite the opposite. Eve Online is the kind of game that needs the kind of community which you describe.
its not disgusting, its actually the sign of a healthy community.
Think about it, if everyone (like you) leaves the game, then whats left? The reason why Eve is a cruel universe is because in-tollerent players who are confused and ignorant end up leaving. Whats left are the more colourfull players who make Eve such an interesting place
If nothing else, it filters out the players who lack a certain ability or mental disposition.
This is why Eve is the only MMO that grows year on year, because the community slowly gets better as the riff-raff is filtered out
Comments
You might as well get used to these threads. I started playing EvE back in 2003 and they were just as prevalent then. Here's what the OP needs to get....CCP makes it clear what they consider to be harrassment and griefing....and what is not.
Example one: I'm in a .8 system mining Kernite in my retriever. Evil pirate shows up, targets me, scrams me/webs me...and then proceeds to blow up my ship. Concorde intercedes and destroys his ship. I got back to station in pod, retrieve hauler. I jump back to belt and pick up my belongings. This is gameplay as intended. Your butthurt feelings, your filing a griefing report...all of it will be ignored and posting such things lead to threads like this.
Example two: I'm in .8 system mining trit in my osprey. Evil pirate shows up and blows up my ship. I then go back to station, retrieve my hauler and evil pirates friends destroy the hauler, my egg and all my life's possessions. I awake in a new clone and file a grieving ticket...this will also be ignored as this is normal gameplay.
Example three: I am flying to Jita to put all my pretty shines on the market in 4-4 when after aligning to a gate in a .7 system...two mean ships decloak and blow me up. Their friends collect all my surviving loot, they destroy my egg. After awakening in my new clone, the mean people then wardec my brand new corp that my friends and I just started. Over the next three weeks, they find us mining, mission running in our PvE/mining ships and blow us up. I file a grief ticket with CCP and make 17 posts on various forums...nothing good results. This is normal game play and CCP thanks you for understanding.
Example four: I am flying through ONE low security system to meet my friends for the mining op. Upon decloaking/aligning I notice all these flashing red players around me scramming/webbing me. They ask me to join their TS/Vent channel and sing my country's national anthem or recite a haiku poem of their request. I am angry, but do it. They then release my ship, and I go on my way. I tell my friends upon arrival and they encourage me to file a griefing ticket. I do. Nothing happens. Game play as intended.
Example five: I am undocking in Amarr Prime and a player tells me that I can double my money if I send him 10 mil isk. I do. He PM's me and gives me 20 mil isk. I then send him 100 mil and he never returns my isk, nor returns my PM's. I then file a grief report. CCP then tells me this is allowed under normal gameplay. Choose whom you give isk to more closely next time.
Example six: I am flying to my destination from my level 4 agent to do my mission. Upon arrival, two evil players blow up my ship. I ask in local why they did that. They tell me that i'm a "d-bag" and I deserve to lose that raven. I ask why. They then tell me that my name sounds "gay" and all "gay people should die". I then file a grief ticket. CCP then bans their accounts. That is griefing and they are what makes the rest of EvE look bad. If they want to say that crap, they should never say it in local or in a pm. All convo's are recorded in game, via logs. If you can produce this log, said player will be reprimanded.
This is what separates pirates from griefers, in the eyes of CCP. I can kill you anywhere, I can declare war on you/your corp for no apparent reason. I can do alot of things. I can not belittle you in chat. I can not post threads about killing, scamming, whatever b/c of your race, sexual orientation, etc.
If people understood these things, these type of posts would disappear.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Is that one of the "I can't prove it but that doesn't mean it's not true" things that are popping up around here?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I have noticed that there's a hightened desperation in the behavior of scammers and gankers in this game.
There seems to be a desire to land the biggest fish without doing any work which is making the game experience read less novel.
If things keep up the true stories from the second decade will be absolutely cringeworthy.
Agreed. Worst community ever. Also best community if you find a group that would grow to be your brothers from another mother. EVE is unlike any other game on both sides.
Still griefer paradise and devs actually encourage theft and griefing.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
That is what it is in every Open World PvP games. WoW on PvP servers are the exact same thing, DF, Washu, you name it, this is how it's gonna be. If you are a carebear then games like EVE are something one should avoid plain and simple. Griefing is end game for SOME. People always remember the few isolated bad experiences/interactions with players and quickly forget the good one even though they by far outnumber the bad ones.
EVE is a unique beast but I have to say the community and teamwork is something that MMOs in general lack. Too much MMOs cater toward solo casual players and games like EVE one has to be part of a team if they want to get into the highest rewarding content.
One can easily do mining and missions solo without much threat in high sec, however if you wanting the higher end materials then encountering PC pirates in low-null sec is the risk you take and how it should be.
Wow and their kind are worse than eve.
I can't remember how many times my toons where killed in wow or swtor or some dude blocked access to a clickable or some dude stole my kill, etc.
I can count on one hand how many times some PC in eve has tried something and it's never worked out for them.
As a PVE player I can control eve PKers by taking precautions that i can't take in wow.
flying low sec i guess?
but that's the idea of open world pvp. find a crew to guard you, and make em pay if they attack you. or... dont be attacked
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Yep so true. There is always the possibility that someone you've been talking to for a year, that's been your friend, will suddenly stab you in the back and take you for all that you got. That's why trusting someone in a game where the first rule is to trust no one actually means something. The relationships you form within the community are worth something. Which is why you can find really, really good parts within that community.
What part of this has to do with the community? The community is the help you can get, the bonds you make, the ability to get together when it matters, the creativity and the support. You have a lot of players dedicating their entire play time to helping others, buidling large corporations around this idea. You got players making increadible 3rd part tools. You got a community that influence the game. You got a game where you have to collaborate on an increadible scale to make stuff happen, and people do.
And since when is Eve a pve game? If you do missions, transport goods, mine you have a plan, eyes and friends. You are taking risks. Carebearing is always risk vs return. The risk isn't some freaking NPC. The risk is other players. If you got something of value people will try to take it from you. That is the game as a carebear. This you should have understood your first week. If you don't like other people being able to destroy something for you and to kill you... then it's really, really obvious that this isn't your game. It's eve. You are going to die.
Dont be too harsh, Adalwolf just doesnt understand Eve, where even mining asteroids for ores can involve PVP, from other miners oddly enough, or from those trying to influence the price of ores on the market by 'creating' a shortage in supply, asteroids are a 'finite' resource after all, once a belt is empty, its empty till the next respawn, if a corporation is mining that area and another corporation moves in and also starts mining, that can cause friction, at which point, one of the mining corps can declare war on the other, or as happens more often, they pay another corp, to do so, this isnt end game in any way though, its just business, its not griefing, its just business, when a high sec pos in a good position is attacked and destroyed, so another corp can put up a pos and sell it, its not personal, it's just 'business'
Its all part and parcel of the 'steep learning curve' thats associated with Eve Online, some learn, some don't, its just Eve.
No - "burden of proof" is only relevant in the context of a court of law. The most relevant 'principle' here is the McNamara Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy
MMORPGs certainly do attract certain groups, but nobody has funded research to find out exactly what grouips they are (beyond being predominantly male with a mean age of 27 years and rising).
The most hardcore players are unemployed, for one reason or another. One of the reasons for being unemployed is having an unpleasant character.
You have not played World of Warcraft yet.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
I have never played Eve, but my personal belief is that unfortunately when you allow complete free-for-all PvP, it tends to bring out the very worst in any community. Don't get me wrong here, I love me some PvP, but as far as I'm concerned PvP should involve level or power restrictions. I've said before that if you're going to call yourself a PvPer, then you need to do so whilst fighting against players who actually have a shot at killing you. No, not everyone in an FFA PvP game is a griefer/ganker, but boy they sure do come out of the woodwork in those environments.
That being said, I'm fairly certain that anyone who is playing Eve understands what sort of gameplay environment they're entering into before they even log on for the first time. And considering how much control players have over sandbox games like Eve, there's probably zero point in complaining about whatever griefing is going on. As for myself, this is precisely why I don't play this type of game; I can't trust a player base to police itself properly, regardless of what game it's part of.
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
Joining in with the community listing:
Tera EU at original launch - saturated with toxic comments. The most unhelpful community I have ever experienced.
Best community (and the reason I quoted your reply) - Wow by a long way, but this was from a few years back. But does that just show communities in general where better years ago?
Can you link to a source for that?
I'm curious what you were basing that statement about EVE players on, especially since in other threads you have stated that doing well in EVE requires not just time but time spent making connections and learning how to use their ships and skills - traits that don't seem to be common in the laxadaiscally unemployed gamer.
My experiences with the more invested EVE players (yes, entirely anecdotal) have been the exact opposite. Most of the ones I've met seem to be doing rather well for themselves. Here's a link to a few and what they do in real life: clicky Again, it's all anecdotal, so I'm interested in insight into how you arrived at your conclusion. To be clear, I'm not referring to the crazy leap of logic you infer in the sentence at the end of your post, but the conclusion that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If the definition of hardcore is 'spends an extraordinary amount of time playing EVE' (say 8, 10, 12 or even more hours a day), then it might be a pretty fair assumption that said person isn't holding down a full time job. (but same would be said about any MMO really).
Why are they not employed? Well, many I've met are students, on a break or just slacking off when they shouldn't be. Some were actually retired, and they had plenty of free time. Some actually were just plain wealthy in their own rights, for one reason or another (inheritance, legal judgement), some were handicapped and unable to work.
And yes, some were just in a period of unemployment. Some were even paid by their corps to run them and it was their job to play EVE. (Don't laugh, I once met a player in WOW who's guild paid him about four hundred dollars a month to tank for them on a nightly basis, 4 days a week or so.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I didn't ask why people might be unemployed, as I understand the cause for that and it's also not really a topic for this thread (or even these forums, really). I asked why he felt that most of the hardcore EVE players are unemployed. If it's just an assumption, fair enough. He stated it as if it was fact, so I was interested in what led him to that conclusion.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Seems you have been hanging out with the wrong people then. It did take you 4 years to notice however.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Society is in decline. But that's a different subject and started in the late 60's.
Well, I should have been more clear, if we define hardcore as someone who plays a large number of hours a day, then yes, those EVE players are likely to be unemployed.
I've often asked people who spent 10+ hrs a day in a MMORPG what they did for a living (trying to figure out how I could pull it off) and shared the answers that I received hence my belief most hard core MMO players are in fact, unemployed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
On the contrary, and quite the opposite. Eve Online is the kind of game that needs the kind of community which you describe.
its not disgusting, its actually the sign of a healthy community.
Think about it, if everyone (like you) leaves the game, then whats left? The reason why Eve is a cruel universe is because in-tollerent players who are confused and ignorant end up leaving. Whats left are the more colourfull players who make Eve such an interesting place
If nothing else, it filters out the players who lack a certain ability or mental disposition.
This is why Eve is the only MMO that grows year on year, because the community slowly gets better as the riff-raff is filtered out