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Why can't MMOs please everyone?

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  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member
    ArenaNet introduced Ascended gear to GW2 in hopes of keeping their hardcore base and only succeeded in alienating their casual base.

    So many promising titles/franchises destroyed in the attempt to appease everyone. If KOTOR had stayed a single player story driven RPG, Beware would still be alive and at the top of that market instead the company lays in ruins and the MMO is on life support.

    Niche or bust, one size fits all fits none.
  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence

    If you try to have a game that does one thing, it just needs to do that one thing very well (look at League of Legends for example)/ On the other hand if your game is trying to do 10 things at once, even if it does a few of them really well it will still been seen as either a mediocrity or a failure if it doesn't nail everything it is trying to do perfectly (look at SWTOR).  The phrase "Jack of all trades master of none." comes to mind.

     

    Also some design goals would openly conflict with each other. Having both action and tab target combat (mt even sure how that would really work?) would just piss off everybody I think.

     

    This. 100%

    Stop trying to please everyone.. you can't do it....

  • page975page975 Scranton, PAPosts: 312Member

    For the OP,

    Right from the start you gave your suggestions, now thats fine no problem.  BUTTTT right from the start I disagree with your suggestions of making an mmo story line. They take away from the community by having to do them.

    So what pleases you does not please me :)

     

    Anyway,

    I think if developers stop making non social, short, easy, 30 day games ( that are not mmos ), people would agree more often !!!

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Because MMOS were once their own genre, being a MMO meant something different from other online games and solo games, even solo rpgs. Now they are simply big online games, their identity has been lost.

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon

    It is very simple and a very old parable:

     

    You cannot please all of the people all of the time or you end up pleasing none of the people.

     

    Individual tastes are too varied to cover them all.  And the budget to make that game?  A game that could cater to SWG Crafting fans and PvP fans and PvE fans and Sandbox fans and Themepark fans and Player Housing fans and Dynamic Event fans and on and on and on.

     

    Well, you could probably buy a small country with the amount of money that would take.  It is the problem with the games industry right now.  There is a reason why there are genres.  Literature understands this, Music understands this, Movies understand this.  Horror movies are not made for Romantic Comedy watchers, even though the person may be in the middle of that Vinn Diagram.  So I have always been curious on why the video game industry does not get this idea.  

    NOTHING can be made to appeal completely to everybody.  As soon as the video game industry catches up and figures this out, we will get some real evolution and change in the industry.  Not every game can be WoW or Call of Duty, and thank the gods for that.  And they wonder why Indy devs and Kickstarter games are so popular....

     

    Now if the people who make the damn games can figure this simple concept out.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by iridescence
    If you try to have a game that does one thing, it just needs to do that one thing very well (look at League of Legends for example)/ On the other hand if your game is trying to do 10 things at once, even if it does a few of them really well it will still been seen as either a mediocrity or a failure if it doesn't nail everything it is trying to do perfectly (look at SWTOR).  The phrase "Jack of all trades master of none." comes to mind.

     

    Also some design goals would openly conflict with each other. Having both action and tab target combat (mt even sure how that would really work?) would just piss off everybody I think.

     


    I don't fully agree with this. WoW tried to appeal to everyone and it did it. SWTOR was just a poorly made game, it had nothing to do with trying to be too much, if anything it didn't do enough. You can't get 100% of the market but you can have a lot of different aspects to your game and succeed with it. The idea that you have to target just one type of gamer just leads to lazy game development.

    GW2 is a good example. It was aimed at broad range of players but they made sure to keep it dumbed down and mega casual friendly. They went after the casual crowd and just said anyone who wants a challenge can go play a different game. They aimed the game at the largest segment of the market but at the full range of the market. The PvP, the PvE, the exploration crowd, the story crowd etc.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon

    Money + time.

    When you make a game you will inevitably run out of these resources. It is because of these things that MMOs can never ever be everything you want.

    Unless you are willing to fork out the hundreds upon hundreds of millions. For comparison Starcraft 2 had a budget estimated at 150-250 million dollars, Guild Wars 2 I think 90-120 million - also consider that only about 40-45% is used for game development, the rest is marketing.

    When developers make a game there is usually an overall vision of what they want to accomplish. As time goes by and features are made there will be bugs (many many many bugs) - because of these bugs it takes time away from developing new features or features may change after testing and feedback.

    Towards the end of a development cycle - beta testing, not early access. Game features are fairly set in concrete and little to no new features are made (unless in the case of an mmo you would have several teams making content for post release) but I assume that most of the team will be called upon to work on the release. At this time the team does everything it can to fix the largest most wide reaching problems with the game and release it.

    I'm just a student and this is just from experience making relatively simple games during a course.

    The bottom line is this. The more game you want me to make, the more money you will need to pay me and the more you will have to explain to the customer (my teachers) as to why the product is not out yet.

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    because that would cost 100's of millions of dollars to make. No pub or dev would spend 300 mil..wait swtor, but all we got was story image Well no dev or pub has 600 million to spend on a mmor... wait blizzard has made a billion a year for 8 years image Idk OP...
  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by TheRealBanango

     

    While MMOs cannot please everyone, what is so bad in trying to do so?

     

     

     

    Why isn't there world peace, and never will be untill 1 human is left over?

     

    Because the world is ruled by dangerous sociopaths?... ^^ And always has been.

    MMO's are simply the latest in a long stream of game concepts.  But the current generation is becoming prohibitively expensive, and as the economic system grinds itself to pieces, will become less and less likely to be funded and created.

    The future of gaming is really in the area of whats known as middle ware.  As technology and software become more refined, it should take fewer and fewer people to achieve certain goals.  But thats years (if not a decade or more) in the future.  For now, we will be seeing evolutionary, rather than revolutionary games.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by TheRealBanango

     

    While MMOs cannot please everyone, what is so bad in trying to do so?

     

     

     

    Why isn't there world peace, and never will be untill 1 human is left over?

     

    Because the world is ruled by dangerous sociopaths?... ^^ And always has been.

    On the forums, most of them want to be the Leader of the Rebellion. (And nope, don't spam the Report button, not aimed at anyone).

    Just an observation that Divisive topics, the Hater crowd, always draws the most attention on this forum. "Forum PVP".

    Themepark Hate is always present...and encouraged by the moderation.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    because that would cost 100's of millions of dollars to make. No pub or dev would spend 300 mil..wait swtor, but all we got was story image Well no dev or pub has 600 million to spend on a mmor... wait blizzard has made a billion a year for 8 years image Idk OP...

    That's right. All MMOs are business propositions.

    "If you give me 300 million dollars I will make a Star Wars MMO and guarantee at least 500 million profit."

    Developers must return the initial investment AND at least be profitable.

    Publishers tend not to like pouring millions into a project that have a high risk of failing.

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member
    WoW succeeded because it had almost 100% market share and 14 million subscribers. It could afford to go in depth with multiple aspects of the game.

    Today's devs don't have that kind of financial backing. If they try to spread out their limited resources than yes, you get a game like Guild Wars 2. Mind you the game is in rapid decline because while it has a ton of features, they're all poorly done. Half the player base left in GW2 only plays WvW because its the only feature that sets it apart from the rest.

    If ArenaNet would throw out the rest of the game and just focus on WvW, it could be an immortal game that lasts for the next 10 years. But at their current pace it's to be Warhammer level of irrelevant in the next 6 months.
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