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Perfect Booty
krulux
Member Posts: 229
No, not that kind. The other kind... Loot. Drops. The good stuff.
What is it with today's games? Looting sucks. No drops, crappy chest pulls. Useless trash loot. White loot. Play for hours and get nothing. How about no loot..? I'm looking at you FFXIV. I'm sick of it. I want my loot back. I want to look forward to opening a chest. I want make it worth my while to play an MMO.
When was the last time you really got a good drop in an MMO. Was it in a raid? Was it random? These days it seems the loot is utter crap. IMHO there are no good looting systems in any current game. The best loot system I've ever experienced was way back in 1999-2003 when I played Asheron's Call. The developers of that game got it. They made it fun to adventure and hunt mobs. Any chest or mob drop could potentially be huge. Much like a slot machine pay-off, it always gave that... just got to kill one more mob, one more pull of the handle. I know something good is going to drop. It gave meaning to finding a chest key - the take could be huge.
This goes out to any developer for EQN. Please take a look at Asheron's Call looting/item system. Take a look at the random nature of the quality of items and their value. Please take a look at how chests worked. Keys. Treasure. Tinking. The good stuff. Make looting fun again... not a chore like its become over the years.
Comments
I agree, loot has definitely lost its luster.
Most of the time I don't even bother to check stats on loot before vendoring, cause I know it'll be worthless or downgraded after the next quest reward. The same goes for crafting; what's the point if what you make is worthless after a level or two?
I just love nearly dying to a hard mob, then opening a massive chest behind it to receive 2 coppers, some rats teeth and a sword lower than the one I started the game with, ha.
I never played AC but I have found that in several mmo's I have played the thrill of looting mobs does seem a bit shallow. "In the old days" when I would play UO to fund my PVP guys i would take my ever so loved bard, Sabu, whos skills were tailored specifically for him getting in to the hard to reach places where the more dangerous (and better gold and loot giving) monsters lived. I would spend hours and hours barding the monsters for money and items, recalling back to town to bank my money and items and recall back to the place and keep going. I also had that feeling of ... just another 30 mins and I'm going to bed ... which typically ended up being like 2 hours.
I've read a few threads on here about looting and a lot of people feel its a grind and don't want to do it ... while others, like me, really enjoy it. I prefer to do that over questing for both XP / Skill gains or money / items.
I too hope EQN can provide that trill of looting you speak of.
Aye, looting seems to have really taken a backseat to other concepts. Why? I am not sure. I think the whole mentality of I payed for the game too, so I am entitled to get the good stuff like that other guy over there is partially responsible. Making the good stuff available to everyone who has 30 mins to play has devalued loot to the point where it all seems to be common white junk.
It has been years since I have gotten an item in a MMO that made me feel really special and that I accomplished something great. Nowadays, I get a drop and I am like "meh, I might use that at some point" and continue fighting on.
When Project Spark comes out, I plan on making a game that is lootcentric and getting an item off a high level boss is going to feel monumental.
It has tp be rare though. Otherwise it just devalues loot altogether.
First, some small defense for FFXIV: "loot" in FFXIV is for crafting. Most items come from crafting, and some of the nicest items can come from crafting (with HQ of course). Of those that you can acquire normally, they are done by boss chests in dungeons, questing, or grinding tomestones.
Back on topic, I couldn't agree more. If the game is going to gear driven and advancement is based upon the acquisition of that gear; then the gear needs to be worth while and not throw away. Back in the days of EQ, when you got a nice drop it was like "OMFG finally! Stupid 999th kill of the Frenzied Ghoul" (sorry, bad memories...). You got that piece of gear and were happy that you got it and the time spent is finally worth it.
Those were the days.
Obligatory: Screw you Venril Sathir, give me my Gnarled Staff!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I agree that loot has really taken a back seat in the current gen of games I have tried.
The best loot I have seen lately was in Rift.
They had loots that were game changers and made certain builds work. That is what I hope to see alot of in EQ Next or Landmark or both.
In order for a player driven economy to truly work, you need item degradation.
Most developers aren't that ballsy, so their player driven economy is meh.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
the best loot these days is locked in raids/hardmode dungeons or somekind of vendor for tokens from this two.
In a few games the best loot is from crafting. Very rare its from openworld chests/mobs.
WoW= Best loot is from Raids/Raid Vendors. With some stuff from Crafters to augment your gear. Some Epic gear could be found randomly, but it being on par with raidgear was back in Vanilla.
TSW= Best gear is from Raid/Hardmode Token vendor. Crafting is nearly useless
GW2= surprisingly, the Best Loot can comes from all sources. You can run Dungeons and buy from Dungeon Vendors for Tokens. You can Craft them, or you can find them from the open world encounters/chests.
For EQN i hope that they don't go the route of locking the gear into Raids/Token Vendors. Good Gear from Crafting and best gear from Open world exploration makes the Gear more valuable as you cant farm a dungeon until you got your stuff, but you have to find it out in the big world
I'd just like to see good gear everywhere.
I'd like to see gear that is stat driven with some stat requirements - not level requirements.
But I'll take it a little deeper.
Some old games used to tie your gear to your stats, like Asheron's Call or even Diablo 1 & 2. Now days, gear is tied directly to your level. Often times it is also tied directly to your ability to enjoy specific content.. i.e - you have to be this high - to ride this dungeon/raid.
That is a strong part of why I think MMO's fail these days. There is no real adventuring or payoff for it. As some said above me, just raid until you have the epic set. But is it really epic? Sure you have better gear than anyone lower level than you, and anyone that has recently capped - but you are just another cookie in the cookie-cutter gear-grind. Me I'm sick of it.
Let's take Asheron's Call again for example. In AC the loot/gear you found was immediately equipable if you met the stats. Seems simple enough. But it is a little more than that, so let me explain. In AC at character creation you specifically choose your starting stats. Stats did not have a hard cap, but around 300 or so you'd reach the effective soft cap. When you created your character you were given enough starting points so you could "specialize" in two or three areas, such as Strength, Wisdom or Dexterity...
Even a lowly level one character, you could have some stats be at the 1/3 (100) of the soft cap stat if you wanted. In AC Stats were also directly linked to skill potency - but I think you have the basic idea of how it works. Also need to mention that there were no classes in AC - your stats/skills dictated what "class" your were. (BTW - I see echoes of this in how EQN is handling their class systems... they just need to fully realize it.)
So what does this mean. How is this any different from Wow or any number of MMO's since? The biggest difference is there is not a level requirement on gear. In AC as soon as you start adventuring you started finding good gear. You did not have to venture very far outside the starter towns before you ran into some very tough fights, often times with mobs that were several levels above you. But if you played well, and used your head you could get some very nice drops right away.
Say if you killed a level 11 mob at level 3, the gear dropped only required a specific stat. Strength for an Axe or Wisdom for a Wand. So long as you met the stat requirement you could equip that fine Axe drop right away. This made your character more powerful right then.. and it in turn allowed you to continue further into the wilder unknown. In Wow or any recent game, you could not kill a level 11 mob at level 3, and if you could - you could surely not equip any of the loot dropped.
There needs to be a paradigm shift back to stat driven loot vs. level driven loot. Loot needs to be fun again. The rate that good loot drops needs to be increased. We need to stop tying the chance for good loot to the amount of time you have to play. The chance for good loot needs to be everywhere, in everything you can do in a game.
Given that the EQN world will be procedurally generated and will likely be a very large game map, we should see some huge opportunities for some genuine adventuring. It sure would be nice to be able to find some truly epic loots on our way. Think about it.
"Youre in our world now!"
oh snap
I kind of like the idea of mobs dropping crap items that have little value but you can, say, smelt them down into materials to use for crafting. So for example ... I am killing <insert monster here> and it occasionally drops some crummy sword/helmet/shield ... whatever might be appropriate for that monster to be carrying. I can loot those items, which wouldn't sell anywhere cause they are so crappy no one wants them ... UNLESS the crafters are wanting to buy them so they can melt them down into some components that can then be combined or used to craft something else.
My question for today's player base Is, is this to "micromanagement" for the players today? I suspect some would feel its too tedious to have to go through the steps to get to the crafting supplies but for others (like me) I feel it offers a solid element to gameplay.
I did not like the AC loot system. Being at the mercy of a RNG just isn't fun at all. A little randomness is fine but you don't want to turn it into a diablo style game.
Having said that most games loot is just downright dull. You need flavor to items and not just +10 to this and +10 to that.
Unique items are the key for both crafting and loot.
Nobody wants to all have the same cookie cutter look and gear stats and abilities.
We need to be able to kill some tuff mob that is hard to get to and not always around. This mob will drop some cool weapon or armor but.....will also drop a component. This component is either needed by an npc or as a crafting recipe piece. Once you give to npc or use combined parts to craft...you then have a unique item that changes some of your abilities.
Here is an example. You talk to an npc in a town that tells of a magic cape in the crafting section of town. He says he will supply you with the recipe for this cape if you can get him a magical minotaur horn. So you go find the dungeon area where some minotaurs hang out and you battle until you get the horn. You turn this in and get the recipe. The recipe calls for Magi-dipped spring water (for sale in an adjacent town), a magic carpet, and thread of the Scissor Spider.
Once you gather all these you make the final product which is a cape that
reduces casting time by 4 seconds on any spells that take 8 seconds or more to cast.
Also allows floating....(you can float to destinations with a 3 ft drop every 8 seconds).
This one item would obviously be a game changer for anyone casting long spells. Also would make areas that were previously not accessible, now able to get to. The only restrictions for such an item would be in having to kill these creatures and venture into these places and maybe gain enough faction with the npc. No level or stat requirements.
AC1 really did do some things that were very entertaining and kept entertaining for years. The character build options were unique and engaging. Yes loot has a great deal to do with a players enjoyment. The anticipation of finding something useful almost anywhere is a great motivator to keep searching.
I would love to see EQN pick up on some of this and run with it. It's pretty obvious that Turbine isn't gonna.
Pity isn't it ,there own IP and yet they pay for the rights of other IP's and let the creation that made them ........Turbine sit unused.
Sometime I think I miss vanilla wow.......but I always miss the adventures that AC1 offered.
He's not talking about player driven economies. He's talking about the glorious days of MMO past when killing mobs actually held some excitement, because there was always that chance, no matter how slim, that an epic-quality item would drop off a specific mob. And you were willing to farm that same mob for hours at a time, hoping for that one item that could set you up financially for the immediate future, simply if you were willing to grind out kills and if luck was on your side that day.
I remember spending the better part of a Saturday just grinding whelplings in the Badlands during Vanilla WoW just for that shot at a rare-drop whelpling pet, and a chance at a small fortune on the auction house. It ended up being a fruitless effort in terms of the drop, but I remember getting a small feeling of excitement after each and every kill, hoping this time my fortune would drop.
This is the kind of excitement that player-driven economies, for all their good points, can't give you.
I agree when it comes to loot centric mmo's.
It seems they put all the "good" loot either at the end of Raids or dungeon bosses.
Meanwhile the mobs and other things (Where you spend the majority of your time) you will NEVER get anything that even comes close to the items you find in raids/dungeons.
IMO drop son mobs should always have that chance to drop something great, as you said.
Raids/dungeons can drop some 'unique" things, but let them be unique in terms of cosmetics while still having drops out and about in the world be capable of dropping something just as good/rare state wise.
I agree loot has become mundane and boring, but think of it this way. With everyone rushing to get to max level or to the "end game" what good is have a good loot system in place? I mean why get that grand loot drop if you are only going to be using it for maybe and hour?
When actually playing a game meant something and the rushing to max level wasn't as easy as snapping your fingers, loot was needed and much sought after. It was fun and enjoyable to camp mobs or raid a dungeon to see what spoils you could get! Now it seems it is all about how fast can you get to max level and the rest of the game be damned!
Sad, sad,sad...
Id hope they go more with an EvE sort of loot system, as someone else in this thread proposed, or even Project Entropia (minus connecting the value to the USD)
I think this is very much how it will be like, for Landmark atleast, but could be that the early surface resources only can be used for low tier items - but would really just be shooting themself in the foot.
but when game developers have "ruined the fun of loot", for the most part it is players who have been asking for it, gradually
Aah, farming iron dragons all day in runescape for that draconic visage, good old days.
Also Runes of magic had collectible cards for every type of mob in the world (dropped by that mob), which could basically be used to gain a permanent small bonus to one of your stats. Some of those could sell for millions, and it always added a bit of excitement to any mob killing.
OP
Agreed. So much
nothing heroic or adventurous about crafting for most mmo players. crafting like pvp are niche activities, why give so much in game power to such a small niche of players
Bring back the lootz
crafting can play a part in a RNG loot system like d2 or AC1. just give crafters the ability to pick a few of the base stats per item and then add a few random rolls on the item as well. for example:
cool axe
10 str
15 dex
5 sta
+2 damage
+50 hp
vs
cool axe of the fonz
10 str
15 dex
5 sta
+10 cha
skill on click: summon black comb & hair grease
the last two stats would be the random rolls, the first 3 would be the static that go along with the "cool axe" recipe. have loot drop from mobs / bosses / chests / wherever in the open world that is completely random in what stats they get and give crafters a bit more control over the stats given to a certain item. this would make crafters sought after since people would be looking for certain base stats for their gear.
anyway, who knows what they will do in the end.