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Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by skyline385 Here is something to think about. Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well. People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here. Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
If you think EA is the kind of company to invest money out of its own pocket in a game without making any profit on it then you really don't know EA.
They don't give a damn and would have shut down SWTOR by now if it wasn't giving them profit. It is EA for God sake only thing they care about is 'profit'.So yeah it is quite possible that game is making EA enough profit to not be shut down.
As i said, only EAs accountants know, maybe they have license that they have to pay big penalties to Disney if they shut down earlier that what they signed for, maybe they want to wait for new movies, maybe they just written off lot of SWOTRs debts and now without those debts its making profit, maybe it really is making profit, maybe maybe maybe.
The (ex-)CFO did say late last year that at some stage SWTOR's has to make a profit. Two implications: if it didn't it would have to be shuttered and - up to that point in time - it hadn't made money.
This in no way invalidates what Doogiehowser says. EA will absolutely 100% have expected SWTOR to make money. To cover its running costs including the IP cost, the development cost and even a part of what it cost EA to acquire Bioware. EA didn't buy Bioware expecting to make a loss!
As didjerama suggests I also believe that the old costs have been "written off". The first key teat today is whether whether SWTOR is making more money than it costs to run.
And it probably is: as of August it had only lost 25% of its pre-f2p subscription base. So maybe it still has 200k subs. And to May it doubled its average revenue. So maybe the average revenue is worth 400k subs. Initially EA said they needed 500k to make a (day-to-day) profit but with the staff cuts etc. they must need less. So yeah I can see SWTOR generating profit and being described by EA as "doing OK".
Whether SWTOR is properly making a profit however .... much tougher question. To properly make a profit gross profit margins have to be approaching 70%. In simple terms for every $15 sub or $15 spent in the cash shop EA is looking to claim $10.50 as gross profit. (On which it will then pay tax etc.)
I suspect it isn't and that this is why EA have only said the game is doing OK. Making money, probably, but pulling down what's known as the ROI - EA return on investment. And as with any mmo at some point the game peaks and after that it gets harder and harder to attract new players / retain existing ones. And I don't think anyone will disagree that SWTOR has passed its peak - so OK is as good as its going to get.
I supose it does alright.
The reason I haven't returned is because I bought the game at the inital launch. and now I still have to pay to unlock features that were included when I bought the box. Thats just plain stupid to me..
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by TangentPoint Originally posted by skyline385
Yea the model is very restricting, but they themselves have said that the model only acts as a demo and they want people to sub. It's really bad as a f2p no doubt in that. But yea, i always sub so it doesn't bother me.
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
You cannot get to level cap unless you pay so its not that much different than WoW free trial, a bit more extended but thats it.
Level Cap is at level 50 for the core game. The paid-for expansion increases the level cap to 55 (made explicitly clear when they were promoting the expansion), so if you don't have Rise of the Hutt Cartel (whether subscriber or not) you will level cap at 50. It was only 30-40 days ago that subscribers (who didn't buy the expansion) got it free and then they had to rush to catch up to all those who bought the expansion including several f2p and preferred status players.
As F2P you can easily get up to level cap. I've personally known 20+ people who hit level cap as f2p and only switched to Sub because it was easier to take part in end-game raiding and roll alts to experience different parts of the story. Two, f2p players can purchase the expansion, thereby gaining access to the increased level cap.
I've played the WoW free trial and there is no comparison. The WoW free trial is a trial version allowing you restricted gameplay till level 20. The SWTOR f2p/preferred is basically restricted access to all game content. As f2p/preferred you end up spending a lot more in-game currency to access the same level of gameplay subscribers get, you level slower and you have the trade restrictions. That's it.
Some people think trading in the shotgun for the BFG2000 makes the game easier. It just allows you to enter a higher difficulty level.
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by didjerama Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
No the saddest thing is watching people 2 years later STILL going on and on in multiple threads saying I told you so! I told you so!!
you have the choice to play the game, that you love, but you chose to read posts, that you hate?
the wisdom is strong in this one
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by skyline385 Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by didjerama Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
Bittereness mixed with disspointment.
Your forum profile says you are 33 years old. Do you honestly feel no shame in name-calling everyone on the forums and raging over and over in multiple threads over a damned video game? Why are you so bitter over a game? You didn't like it, fine. Let it go. Why all this hate for people who have done nothing to you?
2 years ago.....and still bitter enough to keep 3..4 threads going with over 100 posts in how long ?
I was dissapointed with the game and quit after 2 months. Now I look back at what I enjoyed about the game and watch waiting to see if it ever becomes something Id enjoy again. Your meathod of dealing with it doesnèt seem very.....healthy.
Again, same dribble. Its FANBOIS who STILL claim everything is rainbows and unicorns.
They even trolled the "will it ever recover" thread enough to have their wish and get it closed.
Now only if moderators would do a proper job (or anything in ballpark of even decent) maybe we could even have a discussion.
But as long as fanbois troll every thread theres no more to say: we told you so then and nothing is changed even now and game is still failing in keeping players (huge drop off since F2P)
I checked EU server status of serevrs again yesterday at 22,30 cet - ALL standard.
You can notice stagnation in last 60d, even if summer is over, they run crapton of promotions and major content patch landed very recently.
Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by skyline385 Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by didjerama Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
Wow! I have been bashing SW:TOR quite a bit, but this is hilarious.
So you wait till 22:30 CET (when People start logging off again) to check server status and say servers are only STANDARD?
If you checked around 22:00 CET or so, then you would have seen at least 4 servers at HEAVY status.
Originally posted by JudgeUK Can't believe this thread is still going. Leave it guys, let it go please.
This thread, another thread. It's the same guy in all of them saying the same things. What does it matter which one is getting replied to ?
My experience is that, as of a few months ago, the overall population is still very high at lower levels, but thins out by around level 40. Also, due to the F2P restrictions, the free players don't really contribute very much to the subscribers gameplay because of the limitations on how many flashpoints and things they can run each week.
It's just important not to log in and assume that because Tython has 160 people in it, that the game is thriving. I'm sure it's doing well enough, financially, but it didn't feel very improved when I resubscribed for a month.
You make me like charity
Most normal sub gamers think of the F2P as party fillers. I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere near a F2P unless and only if I'm doing instanced content.
Otherwise, I'll continue knocking out my quests, you knock out yours and never the twane shall meet.
But, if you wanna instance with me, where it's pretty random who you'll party with, sure, I'll let you fill a slot in my instanced party. My in-game party, oh hell no.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
Originally posted by JeroKane Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by skyline385 Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by didjerama Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
ANd if i checked at 21,30 i might have seen at lest 5 servers full!
Its not my job to check server status. Do you know why i checked server status? Because my character got stuck in combat (again) and i had to alt+f4 the game to fix it.
And, FYI, 22,30 is STILL very much prime time, thats 21,30 UK.
Originally posted by Psion33 Most normal sub gamers think of the F2P as party fillers. I personally wouldn't want to be anywhere near a F2P unless and only if I'm doing instanced content. Otherwise, I'll continue knocking out my quests, you knock out yours and never the twane shall meet. But, if you wanna instance with me, where it's pretty random who you'll party with, sure, I'll let you fill a slot in my instanced party. My in-game party, oh hell no.
If you are on Red Eclipse send me PM with your character name so i can ignore you, you sure aint filling up my group.
And people say F2Pers are obnoxious, lol, from every game that has gone F2P entitled subscribers has proven yet again that they can easily beat any F2P obnoxiousnes....and then some
What is more funny is that they dont realize they wouldnt have a game to play any more without them AND waiting times for everything would take forever (its not like now is ideal)
So if you subscribers are so great and precious....why couldnt you keep game afloat so it had to go F2P?
Originally posted by RexGarvin SWTOR is not free to play. Their are so many restrictions that FTP actually hurts game play. FTP is just another way SWTOR could squeez a little more money out of StarWars fans!!
SWTOR is not a f2p game ... it was designed and developed on a subscriber model. They've been forced to go f2p in an effort to boost numbers, yes, but I think you've missed the point.
99% of the f2p/preferred restrictions can be bypassed in the game. There are cartel market (cash shop) items that people can buy and then put up for sale in-game to all players whether f2p, preferred or subscriber. This means that the item mall is being massively subsidised by subscribers who can either use complementary cartel coins (item mall currency) or buy cartel coins to get items and unlocks that they can sell to other players for expedited credits (in-game currency).
Now, I mentioned earlier that SWTOR was developed on a subscriber model. That means that they need to make up for the cash lost by admitting a f2p player. Preferred players are either former subs or f2ps who put some money into the game, so they don't count as much, but the f2ps need complete subsidisation. EAware has done this through the item mall in a way that bleeds money from a sub-section of subscribers (not Star Wars fans, because neither is a subset of the other) - cartel packs. Put simply, a cartel pack is like a booster set for Magic the Gathering or any other popular TCG ... a lot of people will be sensible and either avoid them or buy one or two at a time, but the target consumer will spend hundreds of dollars at a time. All this for items that are purely appearance driven (mounts, armour and weapon shells, special colour crystals, etc) and therefore vanity purchases.
That said, I don't think f2p is restrictive. Most of the best raiders in my guild were f2p and stayed that way till they hit level 50 and only went sub when they decided that their time investment in the game justified paying the monthly subscription. None of them had to pay for anything more than an internet connection to enjoy the game.
tl;dr - f2p don't pay a thing and can easily enjoy all content (except player to player trade), don't say the game is sqeezing cash out of you unless you pay hundreds of dollars a month on cartel packs (vanity items that are completely your fault for over-indulging in).
Originally posted by Tatercake i do balieve the free to play saved this game if i do remember correctly it was about to go offline
i doubt that, EA are masters of market strategy
i think they had plans for all viable scenarios, but they were surprised with having to pull the
emergency brakes so soon
the number of servers at launch, shows that they were prepared for a success
but the success didnt last longer, than the hype
Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by Tatercake i do balieve the free to play saved this game if i do remember correctly it was about to go offline
They werent prepared for what they had to do, it shows because they had no way whatsoever to do server character transfers which meant no server merges in time which meant more lost people because of hundreds of desolated servers, and they stopped pretty much all content production to push F2P and releasing what was pretty much done at launch long after (Makeb and few later updates were supposed to come before end of 2012)
Its most likely they had more servers ready if need arises but no means whatsoever to lower the number of servers and going F2P. In the end they said before launch that they had no plans whatsoever to go F2P and that F2P model is suited for failed games, while successful ones are P2P.
As an example of prepared theres Trion with Rift, when the time came they made free servers transfers available so people could painfully transfer from dead servers and closing of dead servers. Trion is example of best post launch managing of the game ive seen, still, unfortunately the type of game they made doesnt warrant more subs than they had, SWTOR is same type of game but gets more players because of IP. If someone really wanted to know how many long term subs SWTOR would have they just need to look at RIft and add 20-30% to that. It became true unfortunately.
I cant really say i hate it when im right ;P but i hate that SWTOR underperformed so much as that probably means when im done with class stories im done with SWTOR, for a MMO its best in the industry in that departement (story+cutscenes+coop play) so yah, i dont really like they didnt make it because of other stuff (namely endgame and whole WoW clone thingy)
And i bet you any major MMO will have solid infrastructure for painful F2P conversion (Namely Wildstar and TESO) and Gaffney said it himslef "its really logical for game to launch as P2P and then when population drops go F2P". But thats the point - if population doesnt drop but grows theres no reason to go F2P. It kinda sheds light on expectations for Wildstar though ;P
At worst, it would have been the same as SWG, where it just sort of coasts along without any real development until the license runs out or another SW MMO is released.
They ( devs/publishers ) should just top making SW MMOs since they clearly aren't able to make any good ones.
The only good one ( SWG ) was shut down after they screwed their customers over and screwed up the game.
There will never be a good SW MMO.
Let it rest in peace.
Originally posted by asmkm22 Originally posted by Tatercake i do balieve the free to play saved this game if i do remember correctly it was about to go offline
SWG had quite a bit of development done to it, and even had features added in 2011 that SWTOR can only dream of.
The other bonus with SWG was that it was self catering, the crafting and harvesting was still keeping me busy in 2011, and was messing around with it from 2003 and still did not have enough of it. With the free transfers in April 2011 it made it more interesting as was able to transfer from server to server gathering the best resources. I still did not get involved fully with the chronicles system or Beast master, there was not enough time to. With SWG the game was only limited by your own imagination, there was so much you could do, and very little time to do it all
With SWTOR without added content the game would dry up a lot faster, there are not many game mechanics to keep yourself interested long term
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter The only good one ( SWG ) was shut down after they screwed their customers over and screwed up the game. There will never be a good SW MMO. Let it rest in peace.
where is swg 2 disney
Originally posted by didjerama Originally posted by simplius Originally posted by Tatercake i do balieve the free to play saved this game if i do remember correctly it was about to go offline
i had high hopes for wildstar, until i heard it is raid focused , and action combat
theyll prolly sell 800k boxes, and end up with 3-400 k players
the server transfers? tech trouble, either the engine, or missing programmers
look at the plans they had for ilum, and how that turned out
yes , the P2P/ B2P discussion before launch shows , that some members on their own team
and by their own definition, swtor is a failed game