What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.
Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.
I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.
On other platforms it happens.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Because the content is consumed?
The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.
You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.
Others are looking for long term entertainment from an entertainment service. They have and are willing to spend a large amount of money for many years.
They aren't looking for themeparks to entertain them. They are looking to play in a fictional world. Neither is better. Both play for years. It's up to companies to decide what they want.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Because the content is consumed?
The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.
You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.
Others are looking for long term entertainment from an entertainment service. They have and are willing to spend a large amount of money for many years.
They aren't looking for themeparks to entertain them. They are looking to play in a fictional world. Neither is better. Both play for years. It's up to companies to decide what they want.
So? The answer for NorseGod who does not understand why "they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all" still applies.
Whether there are others looking for long term stuff is irrelevant to why some good entertainment is short.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Because the content is consumed?
The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.
You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.
Quality matters over duration only in single player games. MMORPG's are all about long term goals, bigger picture, character development for something else ahead, etc.
Every themepark MMORPG thats designed all about content is doomed to fail. As long as developers want to be in charge and control the world/setting over giving the player the tools/freedom to do what he wants in their own game,making new quests or being the "boss" everyone would want to PvP for loot/reward is a doomed game.
Fact is there are too many sore losers out there who can't handle losing and penalty for mistakes, which the term instant gratification and catering to casuals comes into play. A casual does not have place to ask for BALANCE or fairness. Same rule applies to real life, which is why life functions perfectly.
Players need to accept being owned just as they are in real life and learn how to take orders and rules by others who are above them. There can be a great experience in a huge, virtual world for even the peasant professions like begger, farmer and merchant. All can't demand to be kings, emperors, rulers...off the bat.
Themeparks are just another version of single player games where the only difference is "I can play that game with others". Themeparks existed in the arcade and on my Nintendo 22+ years ago. Only difference between those games and todays themeparks is that I can play the game with more than 1 friend....
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?
I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )
And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.
What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.
I think that he's saying that individually many of the new "mainstream" games are really niche as old school like.
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?
The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?
Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.
No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?
I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )
And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.
What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.
I think that he's saying that individually many of the new "mainstream" games are really niche as old school like.
Yeah if you look at populations in all the new mo's they are really low. So low you might aswell call them niche.
Now alot of us guys here want a MMO with old standards. Quite posible a number as as big enough as those new type (niche) mmo's out there.
and its quite possible that that number would be greater. Alot of people (myself included) pretty much try any mmo comming out. Because reaching endgame (if there is any) is a long tought journey who knows all those content locust might even like it. cant say they run trough content too fast.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by immodium They should work on making early game challenging 20/40 man raids, make that part of the journey.
No thanks, for me. I have no interest in raiding, especially with the playerbase in today's MMOs.
That is just one aspect of a game. Would also like to see Crafting become a requirement to advancement, or Role Playing? How about PvP?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Because the content is consumed?
The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.
You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.
MMORPGs are a hobby to a lot of people. You look at them as a tv show or going to the movies. Can't say that I respect your opinion about anything towards MMORPGs and what they were and what they should be, which is easy and free, according to you. Yes, we know, you remind us of that multiple times on a daily basis.
There was a time when there wasn't ever a problem such as "content consumed". People had fun playing their favorite game for years straight.
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?
The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?
Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.
No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?
My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.
My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.
My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by Neo_ViperOriginally posted by CobraMKIIII agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.(/sarcasm) With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics? I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There is not a single word of the OP that I disagree with.
MMO are no longer worlds full of danger to get lost in, they are kid-themed theme parks where everything is lazily handed to you.
I have rekindled my love of good single player games, sure they are more lonely, but at least a gem is released a couple times a year, it has been almost a decade since a truly great MMO was released.
Originally posted by CobraMKIIII agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.(/sarcasm)
With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?
I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.
Well you could also assume they like more than just RPG's, or like a different style of RPG, as there's more than one popular form of roleplaying game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?
The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?
Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.
No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?
My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.
My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.
My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Not making your customers happy in the long run is the worst thing you can do for your company.
Sadly, a decade ago, I dare say that most game devs didn't consider themselves as a "business" and gamers didn't consider themselves as "customers". It was like a club.
That was the best times I've ever had playing MMOs.
I think this was a time before Game Masters became in-game customer service.
Comments
On other platforms it happens.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Others are looking for long term entertainment from an entertainment service. They have and are willing to spend a large amount of money for many years.
They aren't looking for themeparks to entertain them. They are looking to play in a fictional world. Neither is better. Both play for years. It's up to companies to decide what they want.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
So? The answer for NorseGod who does not understand why "they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all" still applies.
Whether there are others looking for long term stuff is irrelevant to why some good entertainment is short.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Quality matters over duration only in single player games. MMORPG's are all about long term goals, bigger picture, character development for something else ahead, etc.
Every themepark MMORPG thats designed all about content is doomed to fail. As long as developers want to be in charge and control the world/setting over giving the player the tools/freedom to do what he wants in their own game,making new quests or being the "boss" everyone would want to PvP for loot/reward is a doomed game.
Fact is there are too many sore losers out there who can't handle losing and penalty for mistakes, which the term instant gratification and catering to casuals comes into play. A casual does not have place to ask for BALANCE or fairness. Same rule applies to real life, which is why life functions perfectly.
Players need to accept being owned just as they are in real life and learn how to take orders and rules by others who are above them. There can be a great experience in a huge, virtual world for even the peasant professions like begger, farmer and merchant. All can't demand to be kings, emperors, rulers...off the bat.
Themeparks are just another version of single player games where the only difference is "I can play that game with others". Themeparks existed in the arcade and on my Nintendo 22+ years ago. Only difference between those games and todays themeparks is that I can play the game with more than 1 friend....
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I think that he's saying that individually many of the new "mainstream" games are really niche as old school like.
The people on your side of the argument also are repeatedly laughing at EQ having 450K subs in it's prime. Does TERA have 450K players logging in today? How about GW2? What about SWTOR? VG? WAR? Aion?
The thing is, they were getting those numbers for a long, long time. How long do current "games of the future" take to peak? The first month after release?
Your side can't have it both ways. Either 450K players is a lot, or it's a dead game. Pick one.
No need to justify crappy numbers for game X. Your side wanted a game X. Why abandon it? Game X, the "future of gaming" isn't that bad is it?
Yeah if you look at populations in all the new mo's they are really low. So low you might aswell call them niche.
Now alot of us guys here want a MMO with old standards. Quite posible a number as as big enough as those new type (niche) mmo's out there.
and its quite possible that that number would be greater. Alot of people (myself included) pretty much try any mmo comming out. Because reaching endgame (if there is any) is a long tought journey who knows all those content locust might even like it. cant say they run trough content too fast.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Doom.
Why are we still here?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
That is just one aspect of a game. Would also like to see Crafting become a requirement to advancement, or Role Playing? How about PvP?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
No thanks, for me. I have no interests in crafting, or RP, or pvp.
Good story instance content .. now that is for me.
MMORPGs are a hobby to a lot of people. You look at them as a tv show or going to the movies. Can't say that I respect your opinion about anything towards MMORPGs and what they were and what they should be, which is easy and free, according to you. Yes, we know, you remind us of that multiple times on a daily basis.
There was a time when there wasn't ever a problem such as "content consumed". People had fun playing their favorite game for years straight.
You cannot explain why. I wouldn't expect you to.
My side..... I've never said anything like.....anything you have posted. Sorry I'm not the "side" you think you're arguing with. I'm the side that thinks games...all games, are far more successful than people on this forum think.
My side thinks 450k subs is very successful, so is having 450k people playing f2p. As long as the game is running and the devs are adding things to it, it's a success. When/if they shut it down, I go play something else.
My side also thinks that the future of gaming is something you play when it gets here not complain about what it might be now so you're ready to say I told you so when it actually does arrive.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
With many companies failing to please their audiences I wonder how long it will last. How many companies/studious have shut their doors to their games due to this "more popular than ever" statistics?
I often find myself wondering... How many of these new, pleased players actually desire RPG in their games. If I look at the impressive numbers, I seem to conclude, not many.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Make money and pay their staffs.
The only reason that matters.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There is not a single word of the OP that I disagree with.
MMO are no longer worlds full of danger to get lost in, they are kid-themed theme parks where everything is lazily handed to you.
I have rekindled my love of good single player games, sure they are more lonely, but at least a gem is released a couple times a year, it has been almost a decade since a truly great MMO was released.
Well you could also assume they like more than just RPG's, or like a different style of RPG, as there's more than one popular form of roleplaying game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
That makes absolutely no sense.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Sadly, a decade ago, I dare say that most game devs didn't consider themselves as a "business" and gamers didn't consider themselves as "customers". It was like a club.
That was the best times I've ever had playing MMOs.
I think this was a time before Game Masters became in-game customer service.
The writing was on the wall and nobody saw it.