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I think its over.

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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hm well how can I say this properly....

    These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.

    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Really though.  Come on.  If you havent' done them, you can't comment on how easy they are right?

    At best all you can say is that they appear easy.

     

    People are just throwing "easymode" around to diss other people and make themselves feel good.

    If you look back at Sunwell, it is well known that only 2% did the raid. That is obviously too difficult for the audience as a whole. Either put in a difficulty slider (which is what LFR, normal & hard mode are doing), or make it so that a larger percentage of the audience can have fun. MMORPGs are entertainment products, not applications to elite universities.

    Lastly, hard mode (in both dungeon/raids, in WOW) usually means not only a higher hp/damage from the boss, but also additional (or different) mechanics.

     

    Some guilds may disagree. :)

    oh i agree. I was in one of those guilds before. Not very fun.

    At least the devs decide that is not the only audience they want to cater to, and hence improvements like LFR.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hm well how can I say this properly....

    These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.

    Yeh you post here. Do you really like boring activities? Is that the reason you like slow travel and down-time in your MMORPGs?

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

    I agree about the kiddies part but how is it any less toxic to essential tell the whiner to take his ball home if he doesn't like the genre?    That attitude is just as much part of the negativity towards differing opinions. 

     

     

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Foomerang Hm well how can I say this properly.... These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.
    Yeh you post here. Do you really like boring activities? Is that the reason you like slow travel and down-time in your MMORPGs?

    If I could play mmos at work I wouldn't be posting here.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Foomerang Hm well how can I say this properly.... These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.
    Yeh you post here. Do you really like boring activities? Is that the reason you like slow travel and down-time in your MMORPGs?
    If I could play mmos at work I wouldn't be posting here.

     

    Are you saying all the activities available to you at work is even more boring that you have to choose to post on a, in your own words, "boring" forum?

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hm well how can I say this properly....

    These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.

    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p

    ER, you know, you two are right here with us.

    Guess you enjoy watching train-wrecks as much as the rest of us, even if you don't find any pleasure in it.  image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hm well how can I say this properly....

    These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.

    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p

    ER, you know, you two are right here with us.

    Guess you enjoy watching train-wrecks as much as the rest of us, even if you don't find any pleasure in it.  image

    Yeah, this is my global chat channel lol. My hypocrisy seems to know no bounds. imageimage

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Hm well how can I say this properly....

    These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.

    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p

    ER, you know, you two are right here with us.

    Guess you enjoy watching train-wrecks as much as the rest of us, even if you don't find any pleasure in it.  image

    It's so much easier to see when you sit on a high horse I suppose. Icewhite is the king of those that look down upon us and throw out better than though comments without adding any input into a discussion so I won't bag on Foomerang  and Torv  for it although the comments do seem hypocritical.

     

    To the OP, I can agree with you to some extent, although I agree with others in that maybe you just need a break. I am on one and it is for the same reasons you speak of so I am taking my own advise. 

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Foomerang Hm well how can I say this properly.... These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.
    Yeh you post here. Do you really like boring activities? Is that the reason you like slow travel and down-time in your MMORPGs?
    If I could play mmos at work I wouldn't be posting here.  
    Are you saying all the activities available to you at work is even more boring that you have to choose to post on a, in your own words, "boring" forum?

     


    you should relax a little. its not always boring. it is right now though.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by FlawSGI
    Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Foomerang Hm well how can I say this properly.... These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.
    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p
    ER, you know, you two are right here with us. Guess you enjoy watching train-wrecks as much as the rest of us, even if you don't find any pleasure in it. 
    It's so much easier to see when you sit on a high horse I suppose. Icewhite is the king of those that look down upon us and throw out better than though comments without adding any input into a discussion so I won't bag on Foomerang  and Torv  for it although the comments do seem hypocritical.

     

    To the OP, I can agree with you to some extent, although I agree with others in that maybe you just need a break. I am on one and it is for the same reasons you speak of so I am taking my own advise. 


    All I'm saying is that some people put a lot of effort into being unhappy on these forums. And in the perspective of the topic at hand, even some super lame WoW clone is more enjoyable than this.

    But don't mind me anyway. I'm just some schmuck with downtime at work who would rather talk about mmos even if its on a hate filled forum.

    Its weird sometimes I feel like I play mmos despite this place if that makes any sense lol

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by FlawSGI

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Originally posted by Foomerang Hm well how can I say this properly.... These forums are by far more toxic and boring than any mmo that is out right now. And most of you seem to put up with it here fairly well. Don't see the big deal really.
    lol Well said. This is one of the few times I have global on. :p
    ER, you know, you two are right here with us. Guess you enjoy watching train-wrecks as much as the rest of us, even if you don't find any pleasure in it. 
    It's so much easier to see when you sit on a high horse I suppose. Icewhite is the king of those that look down upon us and throw out better than though comments without adding any input into a discussion so I won't bag on Foomerang  and Torv  for it although the comments do seem hypocritical.

     

     

    To the OP, I can agree with you to some extent, although I agree with others in that maybe you just need a break. I am on one and it is for the same reasons you speak of so I am taking my own advise. 


     

    All I'm saying is that some people put a lot of effort into being unhappy on these forums. And in the perspective of the topic at hand, even some super lame WoW clone is more enjoyable than this.

    But don't mind me anyway. I'm just some schmuck with downtime at work who would rather talk about mmos even if its on a hate filled forum.

    Its weird sometimes I feel like I play mmos despite this place if that makes any sense lol

    I agree with you on your assessment of these forums, I just don't agree with talking down on others when you do more than your share to contribute to the problem. The old saying "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" fits perfectly with some posters here.  I never said anything about you or what you do with your down time at work and seeing as how this isn't a forum dedicated to a game you don't play, I don't question your intent as being anything more than conversational. 

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • iJustWantiJustWant Somewhere, WAPosts: 81Member

    This really is about getting older. The things that entertain you so thoroughly when you're 15 just don't have the same punch when you're 45.

     

    This doesn't mean game vendors lie when they advertise "new gaming experience". It just means you've already had the gaming experience they're advertising. It's new to everyone else who hasn't been there & done that.

     

    If MMORPGs all seem the same, try a FPS or RTS. If you live in a larger city, you may be able to find an oldschool D & D pen and paper group. Collectible card games are another option.

    image
  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by iJustWant

    This really is about getting older. The things that entertain you so thoroughly when you're 15 just don't have the same punch when you're 45.

     

    Not in this case. My interest in MMOs has not changed. The MMOs have.

    I had a blast playing EQ's classic server. It was amazing, how many fresh ideas were there that I haven't seen in MMOs in 10 years.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
    Originally posted by iJustWant

    This really is about getting older. The things that entertain you so thoroughly when you're 15 just don't have the same punch when you're 45.

     

    Not in this case. My interest in MMOs has not changed. The MMOs have.

    I had a blast playing EQ's classic server. It was amazing, how many fresh ideas were there that I haven't seen in MMOs in 10 years.

    Those ideas were there 14 years ago. By definition, they are not fresh.

    Instances, LFD, LFR are more "fresh", by definition than whatever in the classical EQ.

    And yes MMOs have changed, just like any other genre. You don't like the way it is going ... do not mean that others do not.

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

    I agree about the kiddies part but how is it any less toxic to essential tell the whiner to take his ball home if he doesn't like the genre?    That attitude is just as much part of the negativity towards differing opinions. 

     

     

    Quite simple really. When is it justfiied to use force? Normally when protecting someone from an unwarranted aggression. Is it ok to be intolerant of intolerance?  My beef is with those that attack others for simply liking games they don't like and heaping all sorts of vile associations upon them. They are called stupid, lazy, carebear and the source that is wrong with the world (at least in the mmo world). Devs are demonized and corporations have become the devil incarnate. Such dehumanizations has had an impact on the community due to the echo chamber effect on these forums. All this hate and death threats  all because some dev didn't make a new game exactly to their specification? How ridiculous does the behavior have to be before it merits ridicule?

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.

    I agree about the kiddies part but how is it any less toxic to essential tell the whiner to take his ball home if he doesn't like the genre?    That attitude is just as much part of the negativity towards differing opinions. 

     

     

    Quite simple really. When is it justfiied to use force? Normally when protecting someone from an unwarranted aggression. Is it ok to be intolerant of intolerance?  My beef is with those that attack others for simply liking games they don't like and heaping all sorts of vile associations upon them. They are called stupid, lazy, carebear and the source that is wrong with the world (at least in the mmo world). Devs are demonized and corporations have become the devil incarnate. Such dehumanizations has had an impact on the community due to the echo chamber effect on these forums. All this hate and death threats  all because some dev didn't make a new game exactly to their specification? How ridiculous does the behavior have to be before it merits ridicule?

    Again you are doing the same thing.  If your are not being positive or at least confronting the subject matter and not the poster you are just adding to it.  Being on a high horse looking down and genralizing people is no different.  Many others not happy with the genre are lumped into your rhetoric.  And in that case you are not happy it looks silly that you are not taking your own advice and quitting the genre/forums/whatever.

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    So if someone is acting like a name calling jerk and I say "hey quit acting like a name calling jerk" then I'm just as guilty? Sorry I disagree.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    So if someone is acting like a name calling jerk and I say "hey quit acting like a name calling jerk" then I'm just as guilty? Sorry I disagree.

    Its more like you made a similar broad sweeping hypocritical atttack on the OP and anyone else dissatisfied and that they should grow up, quit and face reality. 

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    So you are condoning the childish whining?
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon

    "Im honestly tired.

    Tired of trying.

    Tired of searching.

    Tired of gimmicks and false advertisement.

    Tired of rude communities.

    Tired of lazy and/or scamming developers. (usually both)

    Maybe im just getting old. What happened to the addictiveness, the spark, the magic, the difficulty and the competition. Every single game is the exact same bullshit. They are all one month wonders with zero longevity designed for someone with the intelligence of a gnat overpopulated with people that think they are genious. What the hell happened? I remember 10-12 years ago just day dreaming on what was ahead and what this genre would become. I remember wondering how amazed we would all be. I remember wondering about how amazing the virtual worlds would be that we would all explore. I remember real difficulty and the penalties if you died or failed. The comraderie and teamwork. I remember real communities. Real friendships and relationships that carried over off the screen. Now its just a huge cesspool no matter what game you enter its total rudeness and hate.

    We should be treated with more respect. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on games and keeping our systems up to spec to stay on top and its all just full of regret now. Total waste of time and money. Tell me a game thats worth the time and i will explain how ive played it and the problems it has.

    I work 40-60 hours per week, i take very, very good care of my family but i still have the night. I mostly drink beer, read forums and wonder what the fuck happened.

    Sorry for the rant."

     

    Childish whining is an opinion and pretty much an insult.    I agree with most of what he said except that its an admitted rant.   You've yet to really explain what's really childish or even what's really toxic to compare to death threats. 

     

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by FinalFikus
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'll tell you why I think he speaks for a majority of gamers because game revenues, especially online game revenues keep increasing year to year. The people happier with gaming are playing and paying and the number of people playing are increasing. This report here: http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/ supports my claim and his.

    Do you have any facts at all to support what you claim or are you basing it all, like most of the disgruntled here, on your wishes. You wish that what you feel is true so you keep saying it and then start believing it to be truth. Sorry but facts don't support you. Back in the day, that same old school day you're all pining for, gamers had to support their claims with facts or they were called on the carpet. You want oldschool? Here it is. Put up some facts.

    The article says the number of games is outpacing growth of consumers. Your link doesn't back up anything.

    Are you being willfully obtuse or are you one of "those" who ignores facts when they're presented. There was a revenue increase indicated on the page. There are other links on the site which show this. This for example (it has pretty pictures): http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/global-games-market-report-infographics/

    I'm post the picture to the link below so no one can get confused. You only need to read the top graph. The bars keep getting bigger over time which means more money is being made. The bar for 2012 (at $66.3Bn) is smaller than the bar for 2013 (at $70.4Bn). The unit "Bn" means billion which is a thousand million. Overall gaming is going to grow. It isn't over.

    This part is really tricky because there are multiple platform delivery methods here. MMOs get their own platform and they are increasing their portion of the total revenue stream over time. That's right, the mmo gaming segment is increasing.

     

    Why did you ignore what I posted.

    Revenue has increased for mmo's.  Who is saying it didn't? Please link the list of mmo's included, total employment, other means of generating revenue (ads, selling personal info ect..), trends in licensing and technology, foreign releases of current games and any other related info so we can discuss something.

    The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted. Do you think that has any correlation to why and what the other poster said he sees going on?

    I AM being willfully obtuse, I also am one of those who "ignores" "facts". I prefer open books and third party audits myself.

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

     

    Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

     

    Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

    Exactly. More choices. Consume content and move to next game. Also more competition than a company can stay ahead of. If you are a free player, or a PVE player the Industry is bent over for you currently.

    Just be sure you acknowledge revenue among unnamed mmo's is rising.

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Amherest, MAPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by FinalFikus

    The number of games are out pacing the number of customers. That's what I posted.

     

    Great. Consumers have more choices, at least until (if there ever going to be) a collapse.

    No we don't, because all the games coming out are the same.

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