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Thanks,MikeWorking on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Originally posted by worldalpha The good ol' days... Everyone thinks life was better way back when. In reality it usually wasn't, but we remember the good and forget the bad!
Now we can't remember either. How are we even able to function.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
The OP isn't burnt out. You are all missing the point.
MMORPGs are not being made anymore. The ones that still exist are too poorly populated to do anything fun for many reasons, the game is old, people get married, have kids, get killed in Bengazi, etc..
All these newer games that cater to the lowest denominator bores a lot of people that started with the genre playing UO, EQ, AO, SWG, DAoC, etc.
WoW will be the last MMO that will have kept the same amount of people playing it for years. Ironic that it was also the MMO that brought us the people that killed the genre.
In Boise, ID, there were a hundred motorized trials (dirtbikes, etc). Then Californians moved there. Now there is 1 and they are about to lose that too. But, you can now hike and eat a granola bar! Yippie!
The OP is the guy with the dirtbike.
On a side note, I really wanted to see what a real MMORPG with todays technology and funding would be like. Shame.
Playing: 3D chess while while others play checkers.
Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.
Originally posted by goldtoof Eve was made for 5 million Daoc was made for 4 million
They couldn't be made for that money today - the cost of MMORPG dev has SKYROCKETED over the last several years.
Here's an excellent interview with now CEO of Trion - Hartsman on this very issue:
Here's his not so scientific chart showing what happened to MMO dev costs
You'd be REALLY hard pressed to make a AAA MMORPG with under $80 million today. Yeah.
Originally posted by jpnz So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants? Sorry but that gameplay is now niche. Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.
Unfortunately the OP is right though, sure bringing back the classic MMO would please just about everyone who plays MMOs. But those games don't make the money (sounds stupid to me when most the people I talk to hate todays MMOs anyways).
You're absolutely right, good MMOs are gone. We're stuck with big money makers that to try and scam us out of our money.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants? Sorry but that gameplay is now niche. Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.
I don't know about you, I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by jesad Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Again, only a matter of time.....
Who said I didn't "join the rest"? I've given up on the idea of a new SWG or DAOC emerging from the AAA studios out there, I did long ago. Such a game will not surface any time soon. What's left is putting up with issues and playing Indie games, or private servers of old ones. Those are your options for that today. As for misled? How is it possible to be misled by these games? How in any way shape or form? Get your head out of the sand and write something sensible.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants? Sorry but that gameplay is now niche. Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.
I bet you've been scammed once or twice though. I don't think he was implying you were tricked into fun or someone had a gun to your head.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz
How do you know that you are "most"?
Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?
Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by goldtoof Eve was made for 5 million Daoc was made for 4 million
Dump pve as we know it, and the pve player. Cheaper and funner with freedom to do some really cool things.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by jesad Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Unfortunately it seems you're the clueless one who needs to pull their head out of the sand. Seeing as you don't see the issue with the MMOs that are being released today. You also seem to have little to no knowledge about the products these companies are advertising these days. Otherwise you'd understand how misleading these companies are with the products they're releasing.
Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz
It's fine, he's clueless.
As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.
Originally posted by tristanryan Im honestly tired. Tired of trying. Tired of searching. Tired of gimmicks and false advertisement. Tired of rude communities. Tired of lazy and/or scamming developers. (usually both) Maybe im just getting old. What happened to the addictiveness, the spark, the magic, the difficulty and the competition. Every single game is the exact same bullshit. They are all one month wonders with zero longevity designed for someone with the intelligence of a gnat overpopulated with people that think they are genious. What the hell happened? I remember 10-12 years ago just day dreaming on what was ahead and what this genre would become. I remember wondering how amazed we would all be. I remember wondering about how amazing the virtual worlds would be that we would all explore. I remember real difficulty and the penalties if you died or failed. The comraderie and teamwork. I remember real communities. Real friendships and relationships that carried over off the screen. Now its just a huge cesspool no matter what game you enter its total rudeness and hate. We should be treated with more respect. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on games and keeping our systems up to spec to stay on top and its all just full of regret now. Total waste of time and money. Tell me a game thats worth the time and i will explain how ive played it and the problems it has. I work 40-60 hours per week, i take very, very good care of my family but i still have the night. I mostly drink beer, read forums and wonder what the fuck happened. Sorry for the rant.
Don't apologize, its all 100% true. I too was the same person thinking, man, in 10 years what will be possible. I certainly never expected this.
I honestly believe its just a side result of the current state of society. Newer generations (to some extent including ours) are basically the "participation trophy, nobody fails, the government provides everything you need, all you have to worry about is what you're gonna wear today and who you will try to bang". They've never experienced the satisfaction that comes with completing a task 100% of your own ability. to expect them to want difficulty and anything other than instant gratification participation trophy reward style gameplay is unfortunately akin to hoping that a brick will suddenly turn into a peach. Its not gonna happen.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I feel once you realize you have put in 6-15 years of your life into looking a box (monitor) for "entertainment" you start reevaluating what's fun since you cant get that time back on your life. I have been in and out of the MMO scene since UO first launched (GL server). I dropped 4 months into it and then 6 years into Dark Age of Camelot. I went to WOW afterwards and after a year I disliked it b/c I didn't want to redo the treadmill and came to the conclusion when the game maker pulls the plug what do you really get to keep ?
I agree with most of your post and some of what the others have said that I constantly question myself; am I too old to enjoy this ? (yes I read books) However I don't enjoy the PVE dance on raids for raid bosses and for me the best PVP out there atm is Rift. My first year I capped my cleric, and I came back as a Rogue (non healer) and lvld all the way for the most part to 58 in PvP. Yes, the retards will grind your patience and nerves down- slap em on ignore and walk away. I really want to go back to Dark Age since that is my "home" but the game is soo outdated and EA still has a sub on a game that hasn't been updated in 6 ish years by the looks of it as well as they want to charge me $20 for every char I ever made to bring them back off an archived server. 6 Years of chars, and a sub and outdated gfx engine prevents me from doing this.
You could try another niche like FPS but eventually youll come back to what you enjoy, or think u enjoy. Another option would be for you to sign up for Closed Beta's. I've done that and saved some time with sub par games in the early development process about how the devs react to helpful constructive criticism. I loved TSWs theme, hated the game. I'm still waiting for something to hold my attention longer that 1hr a nite- maybe that's a good thing tho that I can walk away now and years back I couldn't.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz
I can agree with that.
But, those people are the loudest. They create an illusion that they are the majority. They get all of the attention. Then, when they get what they want, they don't even stick around, they move on to the next upcoming game to dumb-down and destroy.
If I were to fully blame devs, it would be because they didn't pick up on this behavior years ago.
I wonder how many MMOS out there right now would kill for 450K dedicated, concurrent, paying players? How many of those were originally aiming for millions? Suddenly, EQ numbers in it's prime, doesn't look that bad after all. But then again, it was a real MMORPG and now considered "icky".
Originally posted by Pala Originally posted by monochrome19 There is a way to fix all this though... You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.
What makes you think you could do it?
I don't know honestly. I just... feel it in my soul.
I once read a quote that said, "The idea isnt to live forever, its to build something that does."
And thats what I plan to do. Even if it takes forever. Not for me, but for everyone. I still remember my first years of playing an MMORPG and how happy an experience it was, magical almost. I think thats the word for a lot of people here... magical.
When you fell in love with your first MMO didn't it feel like that?
I would go around Stormwind and Goldshire and yell,
"I'm going to be the best warlock in World of Warcraft!" And I believed it.
I strove for that recognition and eventually i made a name for myself on my server. I was so happy back then, I truly felt apart of some magical world. I had absolutely no idea how to play a warlock, people told me not to play it as a first class. I had a hunter teach me how to CC properly. People I didn't know from around the world would take time from raiding and teach me the ropes of my class and I felt eternally indebted to them. I still do. And because of people like that, who had families, or better things to do in-game I feel compelled to help any noobie I see.
I don't know if it was because of the people or the game itself but i know when I'm an old man on my death bed I wont forget my days in Azeroth or the people i met along the way... even if we never truly "met". Those are special memories for me and I cherish them like the day I graduated from high school, I think every gamer should experience this at least once, that magical feeling.
Oh man, I'm sorry. I cant keep writing this... I'm crying right now...
I'm in my first year of community college. For Computer Science. I'll learn to program, I'll learn to make a game, I'll learn everything. I've got some great friends with varied talents. I'll make a team. Even if I have to program a billion lines of code until I'm 50 years old. I swear I'll make a great game so somewhere along the line some kid like me can have that same magical feeling.
Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by jpnz
So in your opinion who is the majority voice ?
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 Originally posted by Distopia Who said I didn't "join the rest"? I've given up on the idea of a new SWG or DAOC emerging from the AAA studios out there, I did long ago. Such a game will not surface any time soon. What's left is putting up with issues and playing Indie games, or private servers of old ones. Those are your options for that today. As for misled? How is it possible to be misled by these games? How in any way shape or form? Get your head out of the sand and write something sensible.
So if he sees things differently than you he's clueless. I think he does understand exactly how advertising works because he isn't fooled into buying into the marketing hook line and sinker. That's what mature grown up people do; take responsibility for themselves because experience has taught them that lesson.
Misleading game advertising isn't something that happened "post-WoW" for these new games. It's been that way since there video games were first marketed. Going a step further you could apply that to advertising in general for as long as it has existed.
Wow those are some pretty big claims you're making.
Do you have something to support your claim that most people don't stay in a game (we're talking about mmos here right?) for more than 30 days? You know, you should show some proof of that just to retain credibility, but even if you did it doesn't matter, because revenue and growth trends show that to be irrelevant to whatever point you're trying to make. However, I think you're wrong because growth and revenue keeps increasing annually. People are playing more.
Wait, who's right with what? You didn't ask a question. You're making a statement that isn't answering a question in support of a premise you haven't clearly defined or argued.
I'll tell you why I think he speaks for a majority of gamers because game revenues, especially online game revenues keep increasing year to year. The people happier with gaming are playing and paying and the number of people playing are increasing. This report here: http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/ supports my claim and his.
Do you have any facts at all to support what you claim or are you basing it all, like most of the disgruntled here, on your wishes. You wish that what you feel is true so you keep saying it and then start believing it to be truth. Sorry but facts don't support you. Back in the day, that same old school day you're all pining for, gamers had to support their claims with facts or they were called on the carpet. You want oldschool? Here it is. Put up some facts.
I agree with everything the OP said apart from one thing.
Yes you are getting older but the games are shallow and aimed at bottom feeders many of whom say things like 'vanilla wow was such a hard game,why can't they go back to that' makes me laugh.
They don't understand how it used to be because their first game was 'the dawn of the casuals',it was casual and easy from day one and just got easier and what makes it worse other older games followed this dumb down.
Edit: So its nothing to do with getting older just the devolution of the genre.
Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Originally posted by monochrome19 Originally posted by Pala Originally posted by monochrome19 There is a way to fix all this though... You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.
Making a beast like a MMORPG is just down right painful.