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Why aren't crafted items better?
Slukjan
Member UncommonPosts: 265
I never understood this. It seems a no brainer to make crafted items the best items available. Then people can get really excited about crafting. But most MMOs seem to have the best gear dropped from raid bosses...which pretty much makes most crafted gear obsolete. At the very least devs should make crafted gear at least equal to the best raid drops, if not better. I'm not sure why this idea hasn't caught on yet.
Comments
You have to measure what you think the playerbase really wants. In a game like GW2, which isn't hugely crafting oriented to begin with, they recently made the absolute best weapons only obtainable through the weapon crafting professions - and there was actually quite a lot of community backlash agasint it. (Although accurately measuring that can be nearly impossible, as we've seen over and over again that as little as 2% of any given game's community posts on any forums anywhere.) Plain and simple though, there are a lot of players who don't want to craft, and you're liable to make them angry if they feel like they're forced to craft.
I think you're just falling into the trap where you think your perspective equals that of the majority, when, in fact, the majority may actually only want crafting to be a small fun thing to do on the side.
Short answer: because it would trivialize raiding.
Little bit longer answer: Making crafted items the absolute best in the game is not a fix to the problem. In order for crafting to thrive it needs diversity. At least two types of consumables (food, drink, potions), some sort of pvp relevance, the ability to craft furnishings and decorations, and also augment slots in top raid gear that only crafters can outfit.
These are all steps to make crafting needed and diverse without devaluing raid-centric rewards.
I know plenty of games that allow crafters to make the "best gear", the problem is usually that it's not worth it to do so. There are multiple factors at work:
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
But crafted items ARE better.
You might be playing the wrong game though o.O
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
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Crafting is too much work. Or at least, that seems to be the attitude of many people who don't like it. Personally, I think crafting systems in games have become a grind for arbitrary points which determine how good of gear you can make. I would like to see a game come out which allows people to craft without "leveling up" a crafting skill. The current system of working with copper until you can work with iron doesn't even make sense from a roleplaying perspective.
I would like to see more games like DAOC. Their crafted items were worth the effort and generally you mixed them with non-crafted items. You couldn't just use dropped items and expect to be powerful, just like you couldn't use just crafted items and be as powerful as ToA-geared + crafted players. Stat caps, bonuses unobtainable on crafted items, and their crafting system math made this possible.
Crafting is not flashy like tossing fireballs so most do not really care for crafting. Those of us that want a crafting system that is more then just a feature list add on are in the minority.
I am interested to see what EQN does but it seams to be very world crafting with EQN Landmark instead of gear crafting.
Basically this.
I don't mind a bit of crafting like in marvel heroes that upgrade the items, or the new mystic in D3 which reroll a stat, but that is just a distraction to the main gameplay.
Combat is much more interesting to me than crafting.
I think one way forward would be to dramatically reduce the drops during questing. Why buy a sword made from Legolas when a boar will drop a better one.
One simple move would create a huge demand for crafted items and make the whole crafting experience not a way to dump cash.
At the highest level, crafting with socketed items or the like would be good. It requires a master craftsmen, but also a visit into a raid.
In a themepark game crafting " the best loot" would defeat the point of it being a themepark in the first place. Why follow a yellow brick road if the loot you really want isn't at the end ?
The more sandbox your game is, the more important crafting should be. If you're finding the games you're playing have crafting systems that are lacking, look for games that have more focus on player economies.
Crafting is fun..Take away the easy way out of getting gears in raids..Replace it with crafting material that you need to finish that gear..Raiding for gear is to easy and it suxs!!!
I retired retroactively..Haha
Fun is subjective.
It is more fun to me to kill a mob, and receive a loot, then receive some crafting mat, and have to play a mini-game before i get my item.
If players could buy best in slot items, we'd see even more gold farmers / sellers and people crying about pay to win.
Making players earn BIS gear through content is really the only way to keep things in check at this point.
i have never thought that crafted gear should be better than gear obtained through raiding.
however, i do not see why it should not be on par with it. all the raiders scream when you suggest that their rewards be taken away by crafting. but the moment you suggest that perhaps the opposite is true, they go silent.
i believe raiders should be amply rewarded for the work they put into raiding. however, so should pvp'rs and crafters.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I think it would be best to have basic gear drop in Raids which you can upgrade to the best gear but you will need some items which are crafted only and a high lvl crafter to put it together for you.
That way the fans of raiding would get what they want and the crafters would not have lvled there craft for nothing.
It could also be that depending on the items you use to finish the gear would change it (for example make a armor more evasive or add STR/VITY etc...) having a color option and maybe some small tweeks in the looks department would be good too.
Exactly. Crafted items are better than drops in MMOs where gear isn't the carrot-on-a-stick to get you to repeat a limited content set.
Examples: UO, EVE, Asheron's Call
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
see this is the assumption that bothers me. raiders say, for the most part, that they don't like to craft and that crafters assume too much when suggesting that they should craft.
and i agree with that. not everyone likes harvesting or crafting, let alone having to do both.
but then they turn right back around and state that crafters should obviously raid for mats or gear to improve upon, assuming that crafters clearly must enjoy raiding.
both sides are having trouble hearing each other i think.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
wrong in gw2 the best weapons right now ascended weapons, can be obtained by drops crafts and even so if you had legendary that old legendary of yours are now the same power as a ascended, and tell me what si teh new on ahving people complaining? people will always complain about something and I tell you people was with a crafted ascended the next day and I don't doubt they did get some hours after the patch was in, so next time before you say something get your facts right....
for the OP.
the main reason for drops being better then crafted is they need to keep that carrot out there, if far harder you get lucky on a 2% drop rate to get that weapon or armor then is to get mats to carft your weapon, even so they normally would try to push for a craft material who drops on one of this raid bosses and its bound on acquire to prevent then to sell it.
they want this design around so people can spend months paying for the game because we know even devs know tehy worlds are shallow and without the gear grind no one would play for more then 2 months
as long as a balance between the two are kept balanced that might work.
my main issue is with any group having the largest or best rewards in a game that is supposed to cater to several crowds.
(for instance a purely pvp game would not need to worry about these things as they are only appealing to one sort of playstyle.)
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The first scenario is something I don't like about RPGs. A board has no use for a shield, so why does it drop one? Also, humanoids use armor and weapons, yet most games don't let you take stuff from the enemy you just killed. At the very least, we should be able to take broken armor and melt it down for crafting again.
I think item wear is a necessary component of economy-based MMOs. Without it, the demand for new crafted items goes away. SWG and DAOC showed how to make a crafting system become the focus of the economy, and it worked well.
Because most people want to adventure, and part of adventure is the reward, the loot. Having crafted be better, trivializes what most want, the adventure.
Having the loot be a material that can be crafted again trivializes the adventurer by forcing them to wait to adventure again, but forcing them to be dependent on someone else to enjoy the game again.
For the adventurer getting a peice of material, is a let down. Having to contact someone to make it, then dicker about the price, then wait till they can actually make it, then arranging a time to deliver and pay is a pita.
I've played games where there was no loot, just dropped materials, they added it because adventuring was boring, which means there was no one to buy the crafters wares. I say don't make crafted loot be better. Make crafting items either be as good, or have a way to make either crafted, or the dropped loot better through crafting.
ie. dropped sword from godly dragon is really good, but you can use a dragon scale to imbue the sword with whatever and the crafter is used for that.
magic?
If a mage can teleport, and create fire from nothing, why can't a magical bird drop shields and stuff?