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Why this game will fail

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  • partisan3502partisan3502 Ft. Lewis, WAPosts: 1Member
    The EC forum is up and it looks like ALOT of good things to come. I have a strong sense of hope that this is the win that the 40K franchise has been waiting for.
  • AbisbowaAbisbowa The Woodlands, TXPosts: 90Member
    If I get to play as a Chaos Space Marine and hack an Ultrasmurf to pieces with a chain-axe, it will be a win in my book.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psychosiszz
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by psychosiszz

    The developer hasn't made one decent game in these history.

    See list: http://www.bhvr.com/en/games/

    So many bads, I cant see how this game could possibly be any good. Not sure what games workshop were thinking.

    they hired a whole new team of MMO-veteran developers just for this title. Miguel mentioned people working on Age of COnan and TSW, but also said that being in Montreal they had access to tons of experienced developers who had been hit by recent layoffs in different companies.

     

    of course that doesnt instantly mean the game will come out good or bad, but at least disproves your initial argument

    Age of Conan was a bad game. TSW is a PVE game. Not that promising.

     

    Originally posted by DamonVile

    So OP doesn't know anything about the dev team or who they are. He just looked at a list of games he's probably never heard of and said ...nope fail.

    To me this thread is nothing more than a troll thread. They really need to stop letting these things stay up on the forums.

    Well I do now. Devs from age of conan and TSW LOL!!!!

    Age of Conan was a fantastic game! It sold over 800.000 units within the first two months.

    It failed to keep People subscribing, due to the technical problems With their (back then) New DreamWorld Engine.

    You needed a very highspec PC to run the game properly, together With the "right" driver Versions or it wouldn't run well and/or suffer from constant CTD's.

    These were all technical issues that sadly needed too long time for them to fix.

    The game itself was really great and fun! And above all original, compared to the rest of the industry desperately copying WoW and still is today.

    The Secret World is also a fantastic game. I am still playing it.

    But due to it's horror / myths / lovecraft setting it's targeting a very specific niche. You either love the game or you hate it.

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psychosiszz

    The developer hasn't made one decent game in these history.

    See list: http://www.bhvr.com/en/games/

    So many bads, I cant see how this game could possibly be any good. Not sure what games workshop were thinking.

    Dear Crusader Psychosisszz. Great games are not made by companies but by people. I created the Online Studio at Behaviour with the best Online dev from Behaviour, ex-Funcom and from all around the World.

    This 6 months old studio within a 21 years old very healthy gaming company has BOTH of its announced title, Star Citizen and Eternal Crusade, on the top 10 Hype game here on MMORPG. Our work on Star Citizen is already public with great positive feedback and if you take the time to see on our site www.eternalcrusade.com you will see a Meet the Team video where we show pre-alpha ingame footage after only 3 weeks of coding you will see that we mean business.

    50% of the team have been 40K fans for more than 10 years. Our committement on QUALITY and the fact that I have decided to remove the marketing firewall between Fans and Dev will make this game successfull. You can mesure our pleage by going to our forums here: http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/ where you will see that even for our forum, we invested in quality since forum are a key component in interacting with our fans. Most of our moderators are actual fans we recruted.

    Or I could answer you 40K style: The only judgement I will accept is the judgement of the Emperor and he does not judge us based on our Medals or Diplomats but by our SCARS!!!

    THERE IS ONLY WAR

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    If I remember correctly, both Wet and Dante's Inferno got some praise and were at least decent.

    Indeed, our VITA Dante's Inferno got a higher Metacritics than the Console one made by the original studio. :-)

    Regards

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psychosiszz
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Why must every discussion have one of these predictions in it? Why isn't there one on why it won't fail? 

    I know its sad. I love 40k but we have to live by these wise words "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment".

    But come on, when a developer hasnt made a single good game its not all that encouraging.

    Dear Crusader,

    Behaviour has now switch to being a Product company but the last 20 years it was a Service company making games for large Publisher like Pixar, Disney, Microsoft etc. In a Game project where you make the game for someone else you get caught in this evil triangle: Price, Quality and Time. When a client has a fix time and a fix budget, well quality is the only one that move and that is NOT a Behaviour decision. Its the client that decides it.

    We still make games for others but we have now a Product group where we make our Original games like Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade.

    Regards

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online.

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psychosiszz
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by psychosiszz

    The developer hasn't made one decent game in these history.

    See list: http://www.bhvr.com/en/games/

    So many bads, I cant see how this game could possibly be any good. Not sure what games workshop were thinking.

    they hired a whole new team of MMO-veteran developers just for this title. Miguel mentioned people working on Age of COnan and TSW, but also said that being in Montreal they had access to tons of experienced developers who had been hit by recent layoffs in different companies.

     

    of course that doesnt instantly mean the game will come out good or bad, but at least disproves your initial argument

    Age of Conan was a bad game. TSW is a PVE game. Not that promising.

     

    Originally posted by DamonVile

    So OP doesn't know anything about the dev team or who they are. He just looked at a list of games he's probably never heard of and said ...nope fail.

    To me this thread is nothing more than a troll thread. They really need to stop letting these things stay up on the forums.

    Well I do now. Devs from age of conan and TSW LOL!!!!

    Dear Chaos Crusader ;-)

    Now that we have cleared that Games are made by people and not companies, I have to add that the success of a game is made from a lot of different factors. Obviously if I have left Funcom its because I had different opinions on how to make AND market a game. The dev that I brought with me are amazing and so is the work they did at Funcom. I suggest you take the time to do a few dungeons in TSW, your experience playing a dungeon with friends will speak for me.

    Furthermore, the team is not Only Funcom but I brought in people from everywhere. I will soon announce our writer, a New York Black Library Best seller author, who will write the story of Eternal Crusade. Same with our artist, I will soon introduce you to one of our new Artist that has made over 20 40K book covers including some of the CODEX.

    Again, take the time to SEE what we have made so far. Go to our site, check our forums and my interview. Then if you still feel we are not going in the right direction, DO tell me and bring solutions to help us make a better games.

    Already, Fans have had impact on our design, art and even corrected some of our mistake (we had the Black Templar Logo upside down in the Meet the Team video :-) ).

    I WILL listen to your feedback but I need the feed (give me real info I can work on) not just the back ;-)

    Regards

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online.

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nonderyon

    i just lol'd when see the topic title and always do when see "fortune tellings" and predictions, what game going to fail and what not.

    The final judge is us the players when we take a hand on the actual game(not the Betas!!!!).

    Stating that a game going to fail because of the developer or even publisher is just soo wrong, is equalent saying a painter going to fail before see his/her painting, or saying that musician is going to fail before hearing the violin solo...etc.

    So yeah, i love this, a mon-keigh try to be a farseer.

    Well said Crusader Nonderyon. If the game was in BETA you would of just won a nice KEY!!! ;-)

    Feel my hug from Canada (yes, french Canadian guy... we hug!!)

    Regards

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    I like Miguel... :) Nice answers, nice attitude. Good job, Sir!

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Harafnir
    I like Miguel... :) Nice answers, nice attitude. Good job, Sir!

    Thanks you Crusader Harafnir,

    LOL, I should of read the whole treads before answering since I saw after that all of you Crusaders on that forum had my back!

    thanks YOU!!

    Miguel

    Studio Head Behaviour Online

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by psychosiszz
    The developer hasn't made one decent game in these history.See list: http://www.bhvr.com/en/games/So many bads, I cant see how this game could possibly be any good. Not sure what games workshop were thinking.

    Ahhh yes the first doom and gloom thread. There will be many more, and they will be just as unfounded and pointless.

    Grats on being original though...oh wait...

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by psychosiszz

    The developer hasn't made one decent game in these history.

    See list: http://www.bhvr.com/en/games/

    So many bads, I cant see how this game could possibly be any good. Not sure what games workshop were thinking.

    At this point in the industry, past developer successes mean nothing anyway.  Everyone gets so hyped up over this studio or that studio, or this rock-star developer or that one, only to see their latest pet project or over-budgeted monstrosity crash and burn.

    It's gotten so bad that I won't even get excited about whatever Blizzard's Titan game is supposed to be.  I'd almost rather deal with a no-name crappy studio who's pumped out dozens of uninteresting but functional games than some primadonna who kills a project by assuming anything he touches will be pure gold.  Or some well-meaning indie studio with no experience and way too many pipe dreams and promises.

    You make me like charity

  • richarddoylericharddoyle Tyrone, PAPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    At this point in the industry, past developer successes mean nothing anyway.  Everyone gets so hyped up over this studio or that studio, or this rock-star developer or that one, only to see their latest pet project or over-budgeted monstrosity crash and burn.

    It's gotten so bad that I won't even get excited about whatever Blizzard's Titan game is supposed to be.  I'd almost rather deal with a no-name crappy studio who's pumped out dozens of uninteresting but functional games than some primadonna who kills a project by assuming anything he touches will be pure gold.  Or some well-meaning indie studio with no experience and way too many pipe dreams and promises.

     

    I have to agree with this.  At one time I felt like I could always preorder or purchase at release price games from certain developers without worry that it might not be any good.  That doesn't seem to be the case any more, except perhaps from Valve, although even they have been going in a direction I don't like.

    Not to mention, customer loyalty no longer seems to mean anything many companies.  The reality is shareholders are more dear to their hearts than customers are, and we're just a statistic they observe.  Many of those people who are actually looking for a new MMO call for something different, yet it's ignored because the statistics show (due to WoW heavily skewing the numbers) that people want another WoW.  When in actuality that huge chunk of "MMO players" that plays WoW will never go to another MMO.  For many of them WoW is THE only mmo that exists.  These aren't MMO players, these are WoW players, and no other game will ever acquire them all.  Yet publishers/developers don't listen, and so their project flops (ToR).  Blizzard for example, has many top-selling games but has been shown not to listen to its customers.

    So basically what's more important than what the developer has already made but whether or not they actually listen to their (potential) customers.  Naturally this isn't that easy but there are some consensus reached amongst the majority of potential customers that is still totally ignored and the decisions made obviously were made in total ignorance of what anyone who planned to play the game actually wanted.

    But some pessimism is to be expected due to past MMO flops.  A large portion of the MMO playerbase has been disenchanted by the recent failures and poor choices by many supposedly reliable developers.

    Personally I liked Warhammer Online, for example, and the fact that it was shut down when there was still a population in the game as much as some other games that still live on is just aggravating.  And the reality is that it's likely the reason it was shut down was because of its ties to the Warhammer IP.

    If this game doesn't do phenomenally well and ends up with only a small population, can we expect to see it shut down because they don't want to pay the licensing fees to GW?  Which is why I think Warhammer Online shut down.  Sure, it wasn't an amazing game but it was fun enough that it still had a loyal playerbase, which keeps many other games without ties to a major IP going even when their population is small, yet it was shut down.

    So can we assume that any MMO tied to the Warhammer IP will be shut down if it doesn't get the high population numbers many developers (erronously) think they're going to attract?

    Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online

    Currently Playing: None

    Waiting for: Landmark, Dungeon Fighter Global

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Harafnir
    I like Miguel... :) Nice answers, nice attitude. Good job, Sir!

    I'm always impressed by a dev that's willing to defend their work on a public forum....even if it's some French Canadian guy..... :)

     

    ( ps my wife is from there ;) )

  • miguelcaronmiguelcaron Studio Head - Behaviour Montreal, QCPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by richarddoyle
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    At this point in the industry, past developer successes mean nothing anyway.  Everyone gets so hyped up over this studio or that studio, or this rock-star developer or that one, only to see their latest pet project or over-budgeted monstrosity crash and burn.

    It's gotten so bad that I won't even get excited about whatever Blizzard's Titan game is supposed to be.  I'd almost rather deal with a no-name crappy studio who's pumped out dozens of uninteresting but functional games than some primadonna who kills a project by assuming anything he touches will be pure gold.  Or some well-meaning indie studio with no experience and way too many pipe dreams and promises.

     

    I have to agree with this.  At one time I felt like I could always preorder or purchase at release price games from certain developers without worry that it might not be any good.  That doesn't seem to be the case any more, except perhaps from Valve, although even they have been going in a direction I don't like.

    Not to mention, customer loyalty no longer seems to mean anything many companies.  The reality is shareholders are more dear to their hearts than customers are, and we're just a statistic they observe.  Many of those people who are actually looking for a new MMO call for something different, yet it's ignored because the statistics show (due to WoW heavily skewing the numbers) that people want another WoW.  When in actuality that huge chunk of "MMO players" that plays WoW will never go to another MMO.  For many of them WoW is THE only mmo that exists.  These aren't MMO players, these are WoW players, and no other game will ever acquire them all.  Yet publishers/developers don't listen, and so their project flops (ToR).  Blizzard for example, has many top-selling games but has been shown not to listen to its customers.

    So basically what's more important than what the developer has already made but whether or not they actually listen to their (potential) customers.  Naturally this isn't that easy but there are some consensus reached amongst the majority of potential customers that is still totally ignored and the decisions made obviously were made in total ignorance of what anyone who planned to play the game actually wanted.

    But some pessimism is to be expected due to past MMO flops.  A large portion of the MMO playerbase has been disenchanted by the recent failures and poor choices by many supposedly reliable developers.

    Personally I liked Warhammer Online, for example, and the fact that it was shut down when there was still a population in the game as much as some other games that still live on is just aggravating.  And the reality is that it's likely the reason it was shut down was because of its ties to the Warhammer IP.

    If this game doesn't do phenomenally well and ends up with only a small population, can we expect to see it shut down because they don't want to pay the licensing fees to GW?  Which is why I think Warhammer Online shut down.  Sure, it wasn't an amazing game but it was fun enough that it still had a loyal playerbase, which keeps many other games without ties to a major IP going even when their population is small, yet it was shut down.

    So can we assume that any MMO tied to the Warhammer IP will be shut down if it doesn't get the high population numbers many developers (erronously) think they're going to attract?

    Dear Crusader Doyle, how dare you read my mind without my approuval!!! LOL :-)

    I agree 100% with all you said except regarding Warhammer Online which is normal since I know the ''behind the scene'' real reason which is:

    Well, you are actually right in your logic for the reason why it closed but its not because of GWS at all. It is simply that GWS did the deal with Mythic NOT EA. Actually it is VERY important for GWS that licensee keep adding value to launched games. It is even a legal requirement so GWS are your best sponsor in making sure games with their licence keep receiving love from the studio that created it. The closure of Warhammer Online is simply due to the fact that EA decided that Game was not a key focus now in their portfolio.

    Regards

    Miguel Caron

    Studio Head Behaviour Online

    Studio Head of Behaviour Entertainment on WAR40K: Eternal Crusade

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member

    These games are for the most part about options and game world quality, sandbox vs themepark elements are honestly irrelevent as long as the game offers what you would expect from the lore. The mistake most newer games have made is that they create a safe zone grinder , remove any character options to appeal to console style gamers and simply have garbage content and little to no meaningful customization and crafting. 

    Use TOR as an example, a Star Wars mmo with no space exploration and a race selection that is basically a few types of reskinned humans, one thats actually human with a cloth over the face. Then they faction lock the classes because of course Star Wars fans wanted to play WOW in space. It was a stupid idea from the onset. 

    Then speaking of WOW lots of races, lots of classes, large world optional world pvp and what else did WOW offer the Fantasy RPG base, shapeshifters. Thats right , you know there is a saying that in a business sometimes offering something that you dont sell a lot of gets you more customers. WOW understands this unlike  most mmos that offer essentially nothing, WOW offered you many class and spec combinations, multiple ways to screw with other players classes look different act different and if you want you can turn to a large wildcat and stalk folks in the forest or become a tree or giant Owl creature. Games that get it go by the pen and paper standby that giving you options in classes, races and odd metaphysical abilities and eye color are important to the player. Also If I want to spec something odd like a priest who contaminates himself with the plague to siphon life while reflecting damage I can make something strange like that. Not constrained to some childish standard homogenized trash. More than a 6 or 8 skill hotbar please we are not idiots. It is not the players it is the Developers getting lazy and greedy. 

    But If they do this right I will be a Warp Spider for sure. 

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