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Is MMORPG longevity a myth?

TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

There is another thread currently working its way through the Recent Threads list about what creates longevity in a game, MMORPGs in particular. I'll put a link to it HERE.

There seems to be the idea that MMORPGs should give players years of game play. I would submit that while it's possible for an MMORPG, or any game to grab a player for years, it's very much the exception, and it's not limited to MMORPGs.

Think about yourself, and the people you game with. Of the games they have played, how many games did they play for a year or more? How many of those games were MMORPGs? In my experience, the games that lasted for a year or more are very much the exception, and the games that lasted a year or more ranged from RPGs, RTSs and MMORPGs. MMORPGs do not seem to be exceptional in terms of longevity.

Is MMORPG longevity a myth?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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Comments

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    Nope. They are easily the longest term games on the market. Single player RPG last maybe a month tops. Most FPS have yearly titles so they sort of have a built in year long shelf life. RTS just get boring way before a year of gameplay imo.

    Out of all the games I've played for a year+ since online gaming went mainstream almost all of them were MMORPG. Most other genres build for the short term, MMORPG should be built for the long haul.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     I would submit that while it's possible for an MMORPG, or any game to grab a player for years, it's very much the exception, and it's not limited to MMORPGs.

    hmm - you say its possible, but ask if its a myth  (implying impossible)

     

    personally, Everquest had longevity -- I was subbed for the first 5 years playing actively

    I did take short breaks to try new games  (Anarchy Online, DAOC, Diablo 2)

    EQ was my primary online game until I lost interest with 8th expansion, Omens of War

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,635Member Uncommon

    And I would suggest that your first MMO does not count.  Most people experienced longevity there.  What about MMO's after your first?

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    And I would suggest that your first MMO does not count.  Most people experienced longevity there.  What about MMO's after your first?

    what is longevity?

     

    i stuck w GW1 for 2 years after EQ

    its not officially a mmo but I played GW1 PVE like a mmo with over 20 characters and an active PVE guild

     

    I stuck with EQ2 for 3 years after it went ftp in 2010 - still playing it

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,635Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    And I would suggest that your first MMO does not count.  Most people experienced longevity there.  What about MMO's after your first?

    what is longevity?

     

    i stuck w GW1 for 2 years after EQ

    its not officially a mmo but I played GW1 PVE like a mmo with over 20 characters and an active PVE guild

     

    I stuck with EQ2 for 3 years after it went ftp in 2010 - still playing it

    Also a good question!  

      For me it is probably about a year.  I can't really see myself playing any game much longer than that, although truthfully I don't really keep track of this stat!

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    There is another thread currently working its way through the Recent Threads list about what creates longevity in a game, MMORPGs in particular. I'll put a link to it HERE.

    There seems to be the idea that MMORPGs should give players years of game play. I would submit that while it's possible for an MMORPG, or any game to grab a player for years, it's very much the exception, and it's not limited to MMORPGs.

    Think about yourself, and the people you game with. Of the games they have played, how many games did they play for a year or more? How many of those games were MMORPGs? In my experience, the games that lasted for a year or more are very much the exception, and the games that lasted a year or more ranged from RPGs, RTSs and MMORPGs. MMORPGs do not seem to be exceptional in terms of longevity.

    Is MMORPG longevity a myth?

    Well.. if you take out Themeparks very much Yes. Themeparks are completely different and are much more like single player games, and with that do not really stand for longevity.. although WoW is played a very long time by now.

    The problem with longevity is in my humble opinion the focus on themeparks and and withit to create more of a single player experience.. it was a success, a lot feel much more like single player games nowadays, but that does have a price, too. And that is longevity and that all of them really don't feel like multiplayer games, and even more not like massive multiplayer games.

     

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    I don't think Longevity is a myth, I believe that what is keeping MMO from being successful and staying longer than they are now is because Developers and Investors are afraid that if they don't get any good initial numbers that then the game is failing.

    If only they realize that WOW didn't get their 10 Million Subscribers the first 6 months they were up and running.

    Nowadays, Companies needs to see that 1 million players to feel good for their investments, not realizing that 1 million becomes 100k in the following months and the game dies. 

    Successful games doesn't have to start strong, it just needs to stay strong. And that staying power is what is missing in recent games.

    Players are Human, and Human loves to be stressed, they want to be angered, they want to bothered.

    I said that because, how many times does something bother you, but only made you want and think about it more.

    So to get that longevity back, Developers must not be afraid to piss off their players, but in an subtle and thought provoking way, so they will keep coming back trying it again and again. Thats how a lot of the current casual games are keeping their player bases, by giving them harder and harder puzzles that just pisses players off when no matter what they do, they just can't get pass that freaking level. But we will keep trying until we do.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    The trend is F2P MMOs with fast churn. So if there was longevity, it is eroding.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by lizardbones  I would submit that while it's possible for an MMORPG, or any game to grab a player for years, it's very much the exception, and it's not limited to MMORPGs.
    hmm - you say its possible, but ask if its a myth  (implying impossible)

     

    personally, Everquest had longevity -- I was subbed for the first 5 years playing actively

    I did take short breaks to try new games  (Anarchy Online, DAOC, Diablo 2)

    EQ was my primary online game until I lost interest with 8th expansion, Omens of War



    No, not impossible. The myth would be that MMORPGs have an exclusion lock on longevity, and that all MMORPGs are built and must have longevity of a year or more as a standard feature.

    **

    The extension of this idea would be that if all the players don't play for a year or longer, then the MMORPG is a failed game. I think this idea ignores the MMORPG's "churn", trading out old players for new players. Of course some players are going to stick around for a long period of time, but some players are going to stick around for a long period of time in any game. It's just much more visible or much more of a sticking point with MMORPGs.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AhnogAhnog Keller, TXPosts: 231Member Uncommon
    Some have been playing EVE online for 10+ years. Longevity can happen.

    Ahnog

    Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    Some have been playing EVE online for 10+ years. Longevity can happen.

    10+ y EVE here, long lasting friendships, even met a bunch RL.

    No gear grind tredmill, 1 server, changing landscape instead of static themepark, win-win.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Ahnog Some have been playing EVE online for 10+ years. Longevity can happen.
    10+ y EVE here, long lasting friendships, even met a bunch RL.

    No gear grind tredmill, 1 server, changing landscape instead of static themepark, win-win.




    Keep in mind, I'm not saying Longevity is impossible. I'm just saying that it may not be the standard response to MMORPGs that seems to be the accepted truth. Even if Eve itself has achieved that longevity, it doesn't mean that all MMORPGs should or do have the same effect.

    For instance, there are people who have played and been playing games like Civilization for ten years, but nobody looks at Civ and says that the game is fail because people only played for six months. People perceive MMORPGs differently, whether or not they actually behave differently.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Ahnog
    Some have been playing EVE online for 10+ years. Longevity can happen.

    Anything *can* happen but it is not the norm in gaming. Even less so today then a while back.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Hit or miss with me.

    Lineage 1/2 - 6 months each

    DAOC Live - 2.75 yrs

    DAOC freeshard - 6 mo

    EVE - 4.5 yrs

    WOW - 1.75 yrs

    Most everything else, (10 to 12 at least) 3 months or less.

    So MMORPG's can be interesting enough to play for years, just most of them aren't,  in my case at least.

    YMMV

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    No, not a myth at all. I actually look for games that can produce longevity, which generally comes from the players more than the game content. I was subbed to WoW for 6 years, LOTRO for 3 years, bought the TSW lifetime account and have been subbed to Rift for a year.


    I played single player games for a while but missed being able to share the fun of discovery with other people. So I stick to MMOs now, mostly for the company but also for the replayability of the game content.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Boneserino
    And I would suggest that your first MMO does not count.  Most people experienced longevity there.  What about MMO's after your first?
    what is longevity?

    i stuck w GW1 for 2 years after EQ

    its not officially a mmo but I played GW1 PVE like a mmo with over 20 characters and an active PVE guild

    I stuck with EQ2 for 3 years after it went ftp in 2010 - still playing it


    Also a good question!  

    For me it is probably about a year.  I can't really see myself playing any game much longer than that, although truthfully I don't really keep track of this stat!


    Part of the difference is "other players." Single player games have no other player interactions to help "change things up" sometimes. Still, thanks to Steam, I can say I have over 2000 hours playing Skyrim over the past 2 years (I got it in January of 2012). I played Morrowind the same for about 3 years straight. I still go back and play SW:KotOR I and II every now and again, 10 years later.

    EQ was my first MMORPG.
    City of Heroes - 8 years off and on.
    World of Warcraft - 4 years off and on.
    Wizard101 - almost 2 years, pretty much steadily played for that period.

    GW1 - maybe 2 months all totaled. (Did not enjoy post-searing Ascalon.)
    GW2 - about 6 weeks.
    SW:TOR - Beta play (did not buy).
    FFXIV:ARR - Beta play (did not buy).
    TSW - Beta play, though I did buy it on sale ($9.99) recently. Have yet to play it again.
    Vindictus - 2 weeks. F2P.

    See a pattern there? It is a pattern NOT represented by the poll. I would say that MMORPGs WERE made to last. That is why they develop expansions for them, even after 14 years (EQ just released expansion pack #20). But lizardbones lumped everything together like they are equal or something.

    [EDIT]
    Typos and I meant Vindictus, not Vanguard.

    Old MMO that had the RPG element IN their games, yes. Longevity was a goal.
    New MMOs that have neglected the RPG for shallow, fast, constant action, no. Longevity is not in the design.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member

    First off I don't know what game companies could do to improve longevity (i.e. players staying longer with a single game).


    Over the years I have found a small set of favourite games (online as well as offline) which I play repeatedly (with breaks of course). My favourite game features are:

    • big diversity in character build options (mmorpgs)
    • experimenting with good & bad builds (mmorpgs & crpg)
    • complex dungeons with deadly traps and secret passages (mmorpg & crpg)
    • small group content for 4-6 players (mmorpg)
    • action oriented combat (mmorpgs)
    • tactical combat (crpg)
    • micromanagement (simulations & crpg)


    There are only 2 MMORPGs which I have played for several years. I have tested other MMORPGs as well but in general for less than a month. I stick with my favourite games. When you have found the games that just feel right then why look for something else? If boredom sets in then of course it's time to get some change.


    On the other hand most of the features that are included in MMORPGs (e.g. gear grind, raiding, questing, maxing out a character) are wasted on me. I'm used to start a "new game" after a while. In a CRPG  that means just starting the game with a different party setup (preferably determined with dice). In a simulation that means starting with a different focus/faction. In an MMORPG that means trying another build (without access to gear from high level characters).

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    I haven't played an mmorpg long term in years. Most of the games I played long term were single olayer games.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon

    I don't think the question is whether it's a myth or not. Clearly mmo's have lasted for years for some people.

    And other games as well. I know  a guy who is part of an unreal tournement map group where they have been playing for years.

     

    I can EASILY play an mmo for years. Did so with Lineage 2 and lotro. I just need a different type of "end game" or no end game.

    I have over 950 hours in skyrim and still playing.  So I have been playing since release.

    1, I think it depends on the game (so all mmo's might not be designed to last a player "years")

    2, it depends on the person.

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 577Member Uncommon

    If you count the BETA I have been playing Knight Online World for 10 Years.

     

    10 Years is something I would consider longevity. :D

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    I don't think it's a myth, certainly there are MMOs that I've played for much longer than a year, but I think that a lot of that is lack of options, not a game that keeps you playing.  As more and more MMOs became available, especially F2P games where you have no long-term commitment, the amount of time people spend on any particular game goes down, simply because they're not forced into one game for the long term.  In the past, when I left a long-term MMO, it's felt like it was a long time coming and I should have left earlier.  I don't get that feeling anymore.  As soon as I'm dissatisfied, I go elsewhere, I don't hang around for a long time hating the game but not having anywhere else to go.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    Older games had longevity. New games not so much. Mainly because newer games are being developed to be more casual friendly, meaning faster progression.

    This casualization of the genre has really become a plague that needs to be eradicated.  Casuals are now progressing at the speeds the normal and hardcore players were progressing at years ago. The only problem with that is the normal and hardcore players didn't all of a sudden slow down to keep pace with casuals. Now they are progressing 10x faster than they were 10 years ago leading to the same gap that has always been there between the Casual ---> Normal ---> Hardcore. 

    All its done is cause developers to churn out content 10x as fast, leading to buggy implementation, or just rather lackluster implementation.  Mechanics recycled, textures recycled etc. 

    If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

     

    Casualization is not me hating on casuals. They need to be in the game/genre. But they shouldn't be catered to on the level that causes the genre to dumb itself down. Which is what we have been seeing these past years. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

     

    Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

    It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

  • maccarthur2004maccarthur2004 SPosts: 510Member

    I am not a expert in the matter and i can be talking bullshit, but mmos have a continuous cost to maintain the game available, while SP games no (no so much), so the mmos need a continuous income too, what almost always require continuous spends from the same playerbase.

     

     

    "What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

    image
  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Vunak23

    If the developers would slow progression back down a bit and allow players to make their own investments instead of blowing through everything then you would see MMORPGs lasting longer like they did in the past. 

     

    Or you will see players jumping ship if the progression is too slow. It is not accident that the market is driving towards faster progression with so much competition.

    It is a free market. Devs are free to tune their progression to suit any audience. You may not like it but they have no obligation to cater just to you.

    I don't think he wants games to cater just to him. It seems he is making a point as to what games need to do to create longevity and keep players longer.

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